tominchaam

The numbers for September 2006 includes all new registrations of companies. It is likely the majority of those 76 companies registered in September are companies set up for other reasons than real estate. The real estate market might be slow at the moment but there are good reasons to assume it will come back soon again. To lease land is legal and new leasing “set-ups” are likely to be introduced soon by various financial companies including a company associated to TAT.

I royally screwed up -- I booked my flight to Singapore, plus made the hotel reservations, in order to get my Non-Imm (O) visa down there. The flight leaves at 8:30 the morning of October 30. However, my 30-day visa-on-arrival expires on October 29.

Because I booked with a budget carrier, I can't cancel the reservations. Should I try to change the date I fly out of Phuket (it's a direct flight to Singapore) -- which would incur additional charges (flight was A LOT cheaper flying on the Monday rather than the Sunday, plus the hotel) -- or should I risk the overstay? Is it possible to get a couple of days extension cover at Patong Immigration?

Help, please!

You have nothing to worry about. Most probarly they will not even charge you anything as your overstay is only one day. If you want to get an extension it will be granted for sure - but then you have to pay for it which I think is a waste of money.

OK, so for the FUTURE, the money will have to be in there three month early.

So, like I said before, that seems to translate that you have to transfer 800K PLUS over three months living expenses, so the requirement has indeed been raised for all practical purposes.

Am I correct in assuming that for a NEW (first) extension based on retirement the looking back three months will NOT be an issue?

Also, does anyone know if a medical certificate is required for NEW (first) extensions based on retirement?

After reading through National Police Office Order No 606/2006 I found there is one point in the end of the order that should be of interest to all of us.

“Within 1 year from the enforcement date of this Order, for the case of the foreigner who has entered Thailand and has been granted to stay temporarily in the Kingdom of Thailand before this Order will be enforced and disqualifies to the criterions set forth on this Order, The Commander of the Immigration Bureau or the authorized officer shall be responsible to consider granting the permission, based on the necessity of the applicant, case by case.”

With the above in mind I would not worry about having 800k in my account 3 months before renewal of retirement visa until after October 1st 2007. The signature Twin got his renewal done yesterday. He let us readers know all the details in a well written report posted yesterday as well.

There is no more a need for a medical certificate - new or renewal.

Volvo PV 444 from 1951. Had it for quite some time - still like that model.

The immigration laws and rules in Thailand are likely to be more strictly enforced in the years to come. Thailand will for sure continue to promote tourism. But I can not see them viewing boarder runners as a targeted group at all. I would not be surprised if even more restrictions for them will be introduced later on.

Another group that might face more difficulties are those farangs owning land through the company route.

Longsighted I hope Thailand is in for a good period which benefits the people of Thailand as well as us farangs having the privilege to live here.

Hi

My monthly stamp is due to expire on 26th September. I have been in Thailand for 9 months now so have quite a few visits to the border. 3 months ago i got a new passport so i don't have many stamps, but i understand your visits are recorded on computer every time you got to the border.

What I want to know is due to the new laws, will i be allowed to have another stamp when i got to the border on 26th September or will they see I have quite a few already. I'm going to look for a job so I can stay longer, as this appears to be the only option. I need to stay for another 3 to 6 months, as my boyfriend is thai and we are applying for a visa so he can come to the UK, but this will take some time.

Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.

Louise

Immigration will start counting from zero on October 1st. So it should not be any problem at all for you to do a border run on Sept 26 as this one "will not even count". But keep your eyes open for more information as more news will come from a big meeting just now taking place at the head office of Thai Immigration.

Can someone confirm that paying for overstay is straight forward at the airport, I know it is at Bangkok but have never been in the situation to have to pay in CM. I am only talking 3 days but just need someone with prior experience to confirm.

Thanks

CM or BKK makes no difference. Just give yourself some extra time as you are likely to be taken to another officer next to the normal passport checking.

Well, thanks for all the replies, i'm gonna let it go, and think if it as a blessing. My gf told her mum and dad as soon as he hadn't paid it, I don't think they were too impressed, anyway i'm gonna act as if nothing happened, I'm not going to show ill feeling towards the Brother, if he ever mentions it or says he's going to pay me soon which he may next time I see him out of embaressment, i'll just say please make sure you pay soon as it's been a long time.

I don't think there's much point in being hostile towards him, that will just make others feel uncomfortable and I don't want that.

Any future requests for money will be flatly turned down from anyone and the valid reason of his non payment as reasons for me not being able to help others out.

When he one day needs to borrow money for a deposit on a house or something of similar importance he will no doubt feel extremely stupid when I remind him of his faliure to pay the last loan.

Congratulations!

Your new attitude to this problem is very mature and shows everone you play according to the book. You are likely to be shown a lot of respect from your relatives in years to come. Good luck!

Womble, why worry about 15k – small money compared to what it could have been.

I consider you to be lucky to only have lost 15 k. What about he repaid you in time and it went on and on. Most probably you would have faced similar situation to many farangs here – loans of large amount never being repaid. So be happy – and try to remember it as something good as it is now very easy for you to decline any request for a loan from your new family. By the way – your gf seems to be a clever lady who rejected her brother’s request from the beginning.

Do not panic or overreact!

Over the years I have seen a lot of new “regulations” being presented. I have noticed that quite a few of them never come into effect as the Thais are very good at opening up new “Emergency Exits”.

Even if there is a reason to worry – give this time and it might sort itself out without making any real impact to the majority of those affected.

Rent, not lease, nor buy(?) and keep your money out of Thailand, ie: anywhere but Thailand.

Thanks

Do you think we should jump on a plane to clarify everything, and get sorted out face to face, or is eveyone in hiding?

If so can anyone recommend a good & reasonablypriced guest house somewhere in the street near to the marriot hotel.

Thanks for all replies.....please keep them coming in, I can appreciate that this site is essential reading

My response to your second post is: Do not panic or overreact!

Most developers and real estate people in Hua Hin are good people. The fact that their legal knowledge might be low does not mean they want to create difficulties to their customers. On the contrary, I am of the opinion that they are looking for new “set ups” that will satisfy their customers.

My suggestion is still to contact Sunbelt – but do it by mail or phone. What is important to you is to first get an expert opinion about your situation. If you decide to come here before you know your “legal situation” you might only create more problems to yourself.

After you have this information it might very well be so that you, your legal expert and the seller can work out a new solution which satisfies both you and the seller.

By the way if you come here this time of the year you will find plenty of rooms at the guest houses just south of Marriot – just walk in as this is not a busy period.

Hi We are two retiring ladies moving to Hua Hin next year and are in the process of buying a house there.

We are pretty upset at all we have just read ref the property market and the current uncertainty.

We have no relatives etc and have gone down the route of setting up a company.

This was recommend to us by the estate agent and developer. and laterly the lawyer. our company name is now registered.

We are under no illusions that we would ever own the land, but thought that this would be the safest route to stay in control of our own destiny, and help us enjoy a long and happy retirement out there.

Would you experienced people out there continue with our purchase, watch this space, or cut our losses and run?

Your opinions to two new kids(over50) on the block will be most welcome.

Thanks

Good to hear you want to get more information. A lot has changed during the last six months even if the law has not. But it is likely the law will be enforced in the future – it even started a few months back

The law is very clear and its intention is that foreigner can not own land unless they have invested 40 M bath. Therefore the company route is not what any reliable legal expert recommends at the moment (quite a change from just a year ago). Many estate agents and developers might tell you something else which has to do with their interest and not your.

The leasing system is now what is recommended even if it has its weaknesses. This is however not a bad system provided you can find a real Thai person or Thai company that is willing to invest in your land. I hereby mean they invest their money and it is not a loan from you and your friend. If you give a loan you might still break the laws intention as this has not yet been tested in Thai court. By using the leasing system you are the legal owner of your house and its belongings but not the land. At the same time you have not paid anything either for the land

The leasing can be registered at the Land Office for maximum 30 years. Any agreements to prolong it etc. are separate agreements not protected in the same way. But if everything is done by a good lawyer it should give pretty good protection also after the first 30 years have expired.

The problem in the future I think is not to find a reliable Thai landowner willing to invest but the return they want to have for the investments. Expect it to be at least 15% which is not bad for a small piece of land as you will not have to pay any yearly cost except the leasing fee. But expect the larger companies to request more and at the moment I think it is difficult to find any that has this product ready. Most probably the amount you pay to lease the land will be less then the yearly cost to run a company and this fee will stay the same for 30 years to come.

The advises you have got about getting in contact with Sunbelt is a very good advise!

I just have edited my post - after reminding myself that to lease a condo means you will own nothing but the leaseagreement. Before I compared to lease land and own the building which makes my reply different. Sorry - i wanted to be quick due to your hurry. But I was too quick.

I strongly recommend you not to pay any more money until you have been given legal advices in line what “RCM” just wrote. The leasing has its good and bad points – but to lease a condo??? Follow the Thai law from the beginning and do not make yourself a target is my advice – and give yourself time enough to make a decision you are likely to be happy with for a long time. Money can be transferred at any moment so that can not be a real problem unless they have already been sent .

The following was posted at Thai Visa earlier today. I think it gives good information about what it means to go the company route today. It is about land but in your situation the juristic person has filled up the 49% allowance for farangs so your situation is therefore simular to what the lawyer writes about.

I am an English lawyer working for a Thai lawfirm primarily dealing with farangs wanting to purchase property in Thailand. I have worked in Samui and currently in Pattaya for the same firm for just over a year.

The current situation as regards land transfers is as confusing to me as to anybody as the situation is still evolving in relation to the directives issued by the Ministry of Interior. and what seems acceptable to the land office and Department of Business Development (Company's Registry) one week can change the next.

When I first arrived here the "acceptable" way for foreigners to transfer land was with a 49% shareholding in a Thai majority shareholder company with the foreigner's shares being preferential shares with a voting power of 10 votes per share and the Thai's shares being ordinary shares with a voting power of 1 per share. The Thai shareholders were members of staff and consequently nominees.

Possibly because of the Prime Minister's involvement with the Shin Corp Company and the use of nominee shareholders, it seems that the government are intent on stamping out the use of nominee shareholders, hence the first directive that was sent to the land offices in May.

The first reaction to that directive was to transfer the land to a pure Thai company, again using Thai staff as nominees, and as soon as the land was transferred, re-structure thecompany to bring in the foreign director/shareholder.

This was acceptable for a while until the August directive to the DBD made it clear that any company with a proposed foreign director/shareholder would be required to provide evidence of the Thai shareholders income and personal investment into the company.

The current "acceptable" method, according to the DBD, and this has only been related to me by Thai staff who deal with company registrations, is to form a 100% Thai company as before, transfer the land, and then re-structure the company but with the foreigner only having 35% of the shares.

The foreigner still retains control of the company by virtue of voting power. (350 votes against 65) although in practice there would never be 'real' meeting of the company.

The dilemma is how long this will remain the acceptable method, and how intent are the government in preventing foreigners owning land through the company method.

There has been significant downturn in the property market in Pattaya, although there are still foreigners buying land using this method. Whether it is safe remains to be seen.

There definitely seems to be a 'wait until after the election' attitude, but my own view is that foreigners may have to accept that if they want to own land, it will have to be on the 30yr lease basis, which is not without drawbacks as there is no law in place that requires a freeholder to renew the lease after 30 years, and more significantly, a lease dies whith the lessee and therefore the land cannot easily be inherited.

It seems that condos are getting more and more popular here!!

Ted! It should be no problems provided your paper is in order = Non Immigrant O visa, funds and a marriage certificate the immigration people can understand. Good Luck!

Last October I had to go to Europe for two weeks.

Travel agency in Phuket wanted 39K.

Bought it for 32k on the airlines web page.

Thats more than 20% in commision for one singel ticket.

Buy online, save money and time!

Next time it might be just the other way round! Always check around and you are more likely to find a good price.

Further decline is likely!

Having looked into four different reports about the property business all of them says we are in for further decline the rest of the year. This is felt more for expensive units while there is likely to be an increase for smaller units located close to mass communication stations. This information can easily be obtained from internet by looking into the large real estate companies which publish pretty good reports 2-4 times a year. But I agree there is no sign of a bubble similar to 1997. Today there is balance in between demand and supply, interest rates are moving upwards and the banks do not accept mortgages likely to create difficulties for their customers.

George - I do enjoy all your info here (ande you are very alert in a good way) so pls do not take my comment in a negative way. I follow the property market a lot due to various reasons but this does not mean I am correct all the time.

Airlines give agents prices of tickets they cannot offer themselves.Agents pass on discounts to customers.

Travel companies offer a flight ticket at one price, but if you say you have, say 600bht, cheaper with another company they will often match it or beat it.

Its an auction!

The are no scruples,there is no integrity among the travel companies.

To sell air tickets is a business and it is a very competitive business. You should be happy all are not quoting the same price – guess at what level that would be! Do shop around and you might find a price that suits you. But do not expect to always find the lowest price – never mind if you are looking for air tickets or something else. Some agents make special deals with the airlines which they have to live up to – that opens sometimes up for very good deals for end users. So be happy the agents pass on discounts to customers (your words).

By the way remember the lowest price is not always the lowest price when everything is taken into consideration! A good deal to the seller as well as the buyer is normally what is good to both – that is to build up a good business relation for the future.

Imjustagirl.

I really wish you good luck and hope it will work out fine many years to come. Good decision - it would be nice if you could give us info about the final outcome one day in the future as many are interested in going a similar way.

There is no tax for the condominium owner unless he rents the place out. However there is a tax for the juristic person which is likely to be included in the annual maintenance fee.

I suppose there are hundred of houses beeing built by blue eyed farangs all the time. Most of them in their Thai girlfriends name. Girlfriends that only speaks Thai and too often they have known each other for a very short time. To me it is since many years their own business and I cannot care less any more.

I have tried to tell people what a trap they are likely to go into - but very few want to hear advises like that. Pregnancy is a popular way of opening the farangs wallet. That is often the real reason for the pregnancy. Sometimes with the farang as the father but can be Thai boyfriend as well. But keep in mind most Thai ladies are of very good quality - even most of them that choose to marry a farang double her age.

The big problem of today is not to register land into a company as it is accepted at most Land Offices. But to register a new company with the “normal set up” is getting close to impossible (unless you have a something very attractive to offer, I guess). New companies being formed just for ownership of land might hereby have been stopped in quite a Thai way, at least for the time being.

Another problem for existing companies is if they want to have a good “set up” the cost to run such a company is now 100 k a year. Bearing in mind the owners have few alternatives it is not likely to be lower in the future.

Today it is no problem to get a Title of Deed for land up to 1 rai registered into “farang company”. This satisfies a lot of people and they appear to think everything is fine again.

But the law does not accept any farang to own land, directly or indirectly – except if they have invested 40 M and got a special permit.

But Thailand is different in many ways. The Thai people seem to follow those laws that make sense and the rest of them they just ignore. Those farangs buying land through companies show the same “Thai attitude”. I do not blame them – provided they know the facts.

But what I dislike a lot are those developers and estate agents saying it is according to the Thai law to own land through a company. Too often they have their own “legal experts” who acts on their behalf as well.

Sorry to hear about this. But you got your deposit back which is good. Too often the realtors (or house owners) refuse to pay any deposit back even if they should. I doubt you can protect yourself from a situation like this even if you are extremly careful.

Any suggestions as to what can be done when a realtor acts in bad faith? The firm in question is fairly prominant and advertises specifically for expatriate clients.

What protection does the client have against bad service and unprofessionalism? Is there a regulator worth complaining to? Can a legitimate complaint be made without being sued for defamation? If not, any other ideas? Wish I'd had some warning about this firm in advance.

Darwin

If you want a reply with good quality I think you have to give more information. In any legal difficulties where you risk to loose money consult a good legal adviser!

Nicca

If you are in BKK I suggest you go to the embassy and ask to speak to any of the Swedish people working there. I am pretty sure they will listen to your questions and will give good advices. If you are living together you are considered to have a common law marriage which might be enough (sambo in Swedish).

Just make sure you treat the one you speak to with in a nice way. They can only tell you how to act andnot change the rules that governs!

The embassy is located in First Pacific Place (two big buildings and it is the inner one) at the 20th floor. If you want to call them it is 02 2857210. Just do what the recorded voice tells you and in the end you are requested to push 9 to speak to the operator.

Good to hear you do not intend to marry just to get a residence permit. Give it some time in Sweden before both of you take this more important decision.

Good luck to both of you!