Gabriel1

On 4/21/2021 at 5:33 PM, friendofthai said:

Almost any vaccine have 100% efficacy against severe forms of Covid. So I will buy any of them as soon as possible.

I think Darwin would call it natural selection. When those who cannot throw away all the political <deleted> in the field of vaccines will not survive.

I have not seen even one Vaccine rated at 100% efficacy.  Also, vaccines had different time tables and population sizes which were used to specify efficacy.  In addition keep in mind in the USA vaccines were given emergency approval ratings, and were not subject to normal test practices.  I say it is all a crapshoot.  However, in times like this it seem like try or die are probable paths.

On 4/22/2021 at 1:31 PM, cdemundo said:

In the US these 2 vaccines have been given to about 190 million people.

With good results.

Short term good results.

4 hours ago, zzzzz said:

agree;

PLUS

why should the government pay for those not Thai?
this is wrong, should have left it at 300 which covers the cost of the test, no reason to make a profit  off of the test, which benefits everyone

 

wow, again no one forces u to use the overpriced taxi/tuk tuks
and drink prices are just about the same as anywhere in Thailand
most places offer 60 baht beer happy hour which runs all day

 

I love all the Phuket haters on here  ????

That the best you can do.  A bit weak kneed.  Can you send me $10,000?

On 4/21/2021 at 2:11 AM, Jingthing said:

I've never been to Panama. As I said before, in Central America, I've only been to Costa Rica. Yes, I am very aware of that aspect of modern Panama City. As I've said before Panama City is the place to be in Panama. But it's expensive and hot and humid. But it is cheaper than Miami!

 

I am not selling Panama.  Just like to gather data on relevant topics.  Just found this today  in living and investing overseas email.  Panama

Lief and I have been in residence in Panama, on this country’s Veraguas coast, since mid-January.

It’s been a darn nice place to ride out a pandemic.

Indeed, we’ve named Panama as the world’s #1 do-everything haven for more than two-and-a-half decades. This country has long been and remains today the best place on Earth to spend time and money as an expat, a retiree, an investor, and an entrepreneur.

Panama’s is the most proven property investment market in the world… with a track record for recovering quickly from downturns thanks to the secret weapon and massive cash cow that is the Panama Canal (which is one reason we believe Panama will be the first country to recover from the global pandemic crisis).

In addition, Panama remains home to some of the best options on the planet to invest for cash flow… both short- and very long-term.

In its continued and expanding efforts to welcome the world's retirees, investors, and business folks, Panama is remaking herself, building new roads and paving old ones... building new hospitals, more schools, additional airports... creating tax-free and investor-incentive zones... investing in a metro system for Panama City... as well as new parks and recreation areas...

If I hadn’t been here, on the ground, watching the infrastructure and other improvements myself day-to-day, I wouldn't believe the reports. It's like watching time-lapse photography. When these Panamanians set their minds to something, they do it. A new highway? New bridge?

Other countries in this part of the world promise those things for years before following through. In Panama, you blink and the promised road is a reality... the new airport open for business.

Here in Panama today, you really can realize the retirement you've long dreamed of even if your retirement nest egg is far smaller than you expected it to be. You really can generate the income you need to live the life you want... and keep every dollar you earn. You really can invest for both immediate cash flow and long-term upside, positioning yourself in an economy that has managed to thrive in the face of the global downturns and disasters of the past several years.

We’ve been bullish on Panama’s prospects for more than 25 years… and, this 2021, we’re doubling down. If you haven’t yet taken your position in this country, I can’t imagine what you’re waiting for.

On 4/16/2021 at 12:30 AM, swissie said:

Nevermind Portugal or any other place. If contemplating to take permanent residence in any "Cheap and warm country", better do it now. This way, one might be able to secure some form of "Grandfathering-Rights".

The doors are closing. 10 years from now, Immigration-Officers will ask you "how long is your Yacht" and not how much is your state-pension.
The writing is on the wall.

On 4/18/2021 at 4:01 PM, Jingthing said:

Well this isn't new or original at all and you might have zero interest in Mexico but I want to mention Merida because you mentioned that you prefer hot weather. Merida would be my top pick there if not for the weather. 

 

Why?

 

Very hot and humid weather if you like that

 

About 30 miles to nice beach areas

 

Considered the safest city in Mexico

 

Surprisingly low rents in modern housing available 

 

Charming architecture 

 

Modern infrastructure, fancy shopping malls quality hospitals 

 

Great restaurant scene with Yucatan, Mexican, and international food.

 

Lots of expats if you like that

 

Access to ancient pyramids and natural wonders like cenotes.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenote

 

NOT close to Cancun which I consider a plus.

 

On 4/16/2021 at 1:20 AM, Jingthing said:

Yes, about Colombia like pretty much everyone else looking at it, Medellin gets most of the attention. But for a variety of reasons I've already rejected it. Part of it is expense (as I would need to go for more budget friendly options) as one can live in the Coffee Region cities or Bucaramanga for considerably less than Medellin. Of course beach types will be looking at Cartagena and San Marta but for a variety reasons the Colombian beach city options don't interest me. Not that I'm against beach cities. I still like Puerto Vallarta in Mexico though again it's a budget issue.

 

As far as Panama, I have looked into options nearby to Panama City but I haven't really seen anything that looks appealing to me. Also Panama City is both very hot AND very humid. I don't want that. I think Panama City is more for working and business type expats, not so much for retirees. As I said before I see the appeal of mild weather small town Boquette and that might be a great option for people as they get older. People generally take the bus one hour to the (very hot) city of David for shopping and hospitals, etc.

 

That's very interesting what you've reported about the upgraded development in  Siem Reap. I'd be curious to see the result of that.

 

I hadn't realized the VAT in Portugal was that high. At the end of the day, Portugal is probably a pipe dream for me as I already mentioned the budget concerns. Before that video Madeira wasn't really on my radar. That does look like a kind of paradise island. If I was like three times wealthier and could do it right, I could see doing Portugal, but I'm not. 

 

Thanks for the kind personal comment. I should say that researching other countries and visa options is a bit of a hobby which I've had for long before I moved to Thailand. In all likelihood I will stay in Thailand but I want to have my Plan B "ducks in a row" should I feel that I'm about to get forced out of here. Of course another option might be an Elite Visa here. It's not that I think Thailand is the best of all possible worlds, it obviously isn't, but my personal setup here would be hard to beat anywhere else and it represents a lot of investment that I would mostly lose if I left. I realize that for those that aren't invested that way here (or anywhere) they really can move on a dime.

 

I started this topic on Portugal not because it's likely that I will move there, but only because I discovered that I could probably swing their visa that I had previously determined would be a no go. So it seemed worth at least a second look. 

 

People interested in Portugal usually also consider Spain. Well I looked at their financial requirements again. For me, no way Jose!

 

 

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes I am well aware of the Mexico visa situation. While I can't qualify with pension there is the show money option which I could definitely easily do. There is a path towards permanent residence or citizenship.

 

I live in Jomtien. It gets hot but usually not very humid. I have cool breezes in my condo. I have no need for aircon.

 

I have experienced living in extreme heat mixed with extreme humidity seasonally. I truly hate it!

 

I also hate being forced to run aircon all the time.

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I don't really agree with you about South America. It's not a monolith. It's very location dependent even within the countries. But I think its good that so many people are afraid of it as that prevents some of the good places being oversaturated with corrupting expats.

 

I'm still skeptical about locations in Panama. Probably I haven't looked as hard as you but other than Boquette it seems it would be in more backwater areas without many of the amenities that I happen to like and also usually a car would be needed. But good luck and if you can be more specific about what you ever find there please post about it.

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Panama weather is location dependent. 

Panama City is very hot and humid.

David is very hot not sure how humid.

Boquette is one of those year round spring like weather places.

Internal highlands are cooler but fit people wanting to live like a local more.

 

Mexico stuff later.

1 hour ago, Gabriel1 said:

Thanks for you comments.  As my wife says we will not know until we go there.  Boquette is of no interest to me at this time. There are a lot of coastal communities along the Pacific, which is where I am targeting.  PC, I think you said you have been there, so that comment is verified.  So many expats rave about PC.  To each his own.  There are some big towns around the the country, the seem to have the amenities wealthier countries have.  Done, just got a message re your message.

Reading through my emails & ran into this

"It's hard to describe how much this view has changed over the past 20 years that I've been spending time in Panama City," I said, nodding my head left and then right to indicate the whole of the vista before us.

I was sitting at the rooftop pool deck of our Avenida Balboa apartment, overlooking the Bay of Panama and the entrance to the Panama Canal, colonial Casco Viejo in one direction, posh Punta Pacífica in the other, enjoying the breezy afternoon and a cold Perrier in the company of a new friend who came to visit last week. It was Beth’s first time in Panama.

"It's not accurate to say that this stretch of Avenida Balboa looks different today than it did 20 years ago," I continued. "It didn't exist 20 years ago. The whole of this Cinta Costera... the 10-lane highway and the expansive pedestrian and park areas, the basketball courts, the fountains... it's all been built on reclaimed land over the past decade or so.

“And all of the buildings you see today along this stretch of Avenida Balboa—the high-rise condo towers, the hotels, the shopping malls, the casinos? They didn’t exist either.”

Panama City, as we've been reporting from our front-row seat for more than 13 years, is a bona fide boomtown.

"So much construction," Beth observed, "and so many tall buildings. Some seem out of place. That building shaped like a corkscrew, for example..."

"Yes, and there's another one shaped like a boat," I said. "Panama City wants to be Singapore... or Dubai. They've even built islands over there," I pointed, "just offshore from Punta Pacífica, that are being developed with multimillion-dollar building lots and luxury homes..."

"Before Panama you were living in Paris," Beth said. "What prompted that move?"  How long ago were you in Panama?
 

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Panama weather is location dependent. 

Panama City is very hot and humid.

David is very hot not sure how humid.

Boquette is one of those year round spring like weather places.

Internal highlands are cooler but fit people wanting to live like a local more.

 

Mexico stuff later.

Thanks for you comments.  As my wife says we will not know until we go there.  Boquette is of no interest to me at this time. There are a lot of coastal communities along the Pacific, which is where I am targeting.  PC, I think you said you have been there, so that comment is verified.  So many expats rave about PC.  To each his own.  There are some big towns around the the country, the seem to have the amenities wealthier countries have.  Done, just got a message re your message.

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I don't really agree with you about South America. It's not a monolith. It's very location dependent even within the countries. But I think its good that so many people are afraid of it as that prevents some of the good places being oversaturated with corrupting expats.

 

I'm still skeptical about locations in Panama. Probably I haven't looked as hard as you but other than Boquette it seems it would be in more backwater areas without many of the amenities that I happen to like and also usually a car would be needed. But good luck and if you can be more specific about what you ever find there please post about it.

There are towns with amenities like Costco type stores.  Shopping malls etc.  Until I get there I will just not know for sure.  There are backwater areas.  I to an concerned about that.  On mitigating trait is that the expat communities seem to be very loyal and helpful to each other.  Also, the expats I have  seen are no longer A type personalities and seem very, very peaceful and happy.  How many place can one find that.  My sample include locations distributed around Panama.  It sure would be good to be around humans that show some semblance of sanity.

On South America, I expect what you say is true.  I had a friend from Chile who was the most gifted human being I have ever had the pleasure of knowing.  In my mind latin America is not a stable situation and is hard to predict.  What is sane today maybe insane tomorrow.  Look at Brazil, it when from on corrupt form of government to and even more corrupt form.  At my age, I want no surprises.  Consistency is paramount. 

On that point, I just viewed a video by one of the world, in my opinion, top economist and he talked about the ECB (Europe Bank) it structure and how it is completely independent of all governments and the consequences of that on the Economy in Europe.  I was stunned by his details.

I had a strong intuition regarding the situation in Europe and am really not keen on living in that type of economic model.  Portugal, Greece, Italy, Ireland and Spain are the victims of the ECB policy and the populations in those countries are all living under ECB forced austerity.  It is a tough time finding a solid country to live in at this time. 

Maybe Thailand is the best of a bad barrel.  I can say that the Cambodian government has not dropped the ball on the Covid situation and I am impressed at the competence and effectiveness of their strategies.  I must add, that Cambodians seem to be smarter than most people, and make good decisions related to Covid.  In the end, I like you, I may still stay here.  

We do come to Thailand and have always loved our stays there.  However, I find the Thai government somewhat suspect when considering common sense.  I am a fellow that values freedom and no nonsense governments.  Keep it simple and get the job done is what I look for.  Thailand always seems to be vacillating on policies and imposing dumb policies.  My favorite is the 90 day rule.  Even if I decided to move to Thailand, how would my Cambodian wife qualify for residency?  life is full of humorous events.  

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes I am well aware of the Mexico visa situation. While I can't qualify with pension there is the show money option which I could definitely easily do. There is a path towards permanent residence or citizenship.

 

I live in Jomtien. It gets hot but usually not very humid. I have cool breezes in my condo. I have no need for aircon.

 

I have experienced living in extreme heat mixed with extreme humidity seasonally. I truly hate it!

 

I also hate being forced to run aircon all the time.

Thanks for the update.  Can you point me to where I could find the show the money option.  Somewhere, I heard that Mexico will tax residents, as do most countries.  Another plus in my book for Panama, no tax on money made outside of Panama.

How did the weather compare in Costa Rica.  So far in all my explorations re Panama, no one has complained about the weather.  I have to see if I can push that point a bit harder.  We are no AC club members.  I lived in Pennsylvania as a child.  In the summer, it was impossible to get dry after a shower.  Humidity 100% and sucked.  Thanks for your comments.

On 4/16/2021 at 1:20 AM, Jingthing said:

Yes, about Colombia like pretty much everyone else looking at it, Medellin gets most of the attention. But for a variety of reasons I've already rejected it. Part of it is expense (as I would need to go for more budget friendly options) as one can live in the Coffee Region cities or Bucaramanga for considerably less than Medellin. Of course beach types will be looking at Cartagena and San Marta but for a variety reasons the Colombian beach city options don't interest me. Not that I'm against beach cities. I still like Puerto Vallarta in Mexico though again it's a budget issue.

 

As far as Panama, I have looked into options nearby to Panama City but I haven't really seen anything that looks appealing to me. Also Panama City is both very hot AND very humid. I don't want that. I think Panama City is more for working and business type expats, not so much for retirees. As I said before I see the appeal of mild weather small town Boquette and that might be a great option for people as they get older. People generally take the bus one hour to the (very hot) city of David for shopping and hospitals, etc.

 

That's very interesting what you've reported about the upgraded development in  Siem Reap. I'd be curious to see the result of that.

 

I hadn't realized the VAT in Portugal was that high. At the end of the day, Portugal is probably a pipe dream for me as I already mentioned the budget concerns. Before that video Madeira wasn't really on my radar. That does look like a kind of paradise island. If I was like three times wealthier and could do it right, I could see doing Portugal, but I'm not. 

 

Thanks for the kind personal comment. I should say that researching other countries and visa options is a bit of a hobby which I've had for long before I moved to Thailand. In all likelihood I will stay in Thailand but I want to have my Plan B "ducks in a row" should I feel that I'm about to get forced out of here. Of course another option might be an Elite Visa here. It's not that I think Thailand is the best of all possible worlds, it obviously isn't, but my personal setup here would be hard to beat anywhere else and it represents a lot of investment that I would mostly lose if I left. I realize that for those that aren't invested that way here (or anywhere) they really can move on a dime.

 

I started this topic on Portugal not because it's likely that I will move there, but only because I discovered that I could probably swing their visa that I had previously determined would be a no go. So it seemed worth at least a second look. 

 

People interested in Portugal usually also consider Spain. Well I looked at their financial requirements again. For me, no way Jose!

 

 

This is the main reason I will not move to Portugal.  The weather sucks, wet and cold, for a lot of the year.  Here is a video from 2 different expats living their and it will sober up the most smitten of Portugal fans.   It simply went directly to the conclusion I arrived at from my research.  I will still most likely give it a look, but with a keen eye.   

On 4/18/2021 at 4:01 PM, Jingthing said:

Well this isn't new or original at all and you might have zero interest in Mexico but I want to mention Merida because you mentioned that you prefer hot weather. Merida would be my top pick there if not for the weather. 

 

Why?

 

Very hot and humid weather if you like that

 

About 30 miles to nice beach areas

 

Considered the safest city in Mexico

 

Surprisingly low rents in modern housing available 

 

Charming architecture 

 

Modern infrastructure, fancy shopping malls quality hospitals 

 

Great restaurant scene with Yucatan, Mexican, and international food.

 

Lots of expats if you like that

 

Access to ancient pyramids and natural wonders like cenotes.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenote

 

NOT close to Cancun which I consider a plus.

 

I posted on Marida else, but wanted to let you know about costs in Mexico and also income qualification for long term visa there.  Mexica requires $1900 per month for a long term visa.  The average american monthly social security check is around $1500, so Mexico has filtered out American retirees.  The link below will give you all the info you need plus a work around on the $1900 income qualifier.  You mention humidity and heat and being your filters, but you seem happy living in Thailand a country that presents those same conditions. How do you deal with those conditions in Thailand?    

On 4/18/2021 at 12:11 PM, Jingthing said:

I can certainly understand the appeal of Panama as a Plan B alternative residency country. I completely agree that on paper Panama had lots of advantages. I have not entirely ruled it out myself. 

 

However, as you seem have similar budget constraints as I do I wonder exactly WHERE you might live in Panama. 

 

Personally I've concluded that Boquette might be my only acceptable choice. You have mentioned that you like very hot weather. In that case perhaps the city of David might work for you. It also has good access to beaches. Haven't checked the living costs in David lately but definitively much lower than Panama city. 

 

There's another x factor about Central America vs. South America. I've only been to Costa Rica and also numerous places in South America so this is based on limited personal experience of Central America. But I've read multiple sources observing that in general South America has a more solid feel, more overall development than Central America. 

Of course Mexico being in North America is a special case.

On South America, pretty much everything I read points towards corruption as the core of their ongoing economic failure.  Also, I am not a fan of theft and sometime violent behaviors against foreigners.    I checked out Uruguay, and in the end did not like the cost structure nor the climate.  Chile is usually along with Uruguay sited for top economies. However, Panama is at the top level also.  From all my research and contact via blogs with expats their the seem to be very happy.  The only sign of corruption I have found is the traffic cops will try and fleece foreigners.  As to where to live, I have researched the housing websites and found a lot of property to be affordable.  Housing for middle class panamanians range from the $80K to the $120K range and they sell out.  That baselines what one may expect outside of the tourist zones, which of course in their ignorance Americans are willing to pay higher prices, because they think the prices are low.  Remember, Panamanians occupy the whole country, and it seems there are a lot of really nice areas to live in, so finding a cost effective solution seems to be possible.  If I am able to get any money out of the sale of my home in Bangkok, I will consider buying a home in Panama and the highest cost item on my budget will go to zero.  Social security should be enough for everything else.  First, a trip and some time spent their will be necessary. Related to the rest of central america, I am completely uninterested in any other country in central america.  Too much bad news on those countries.

16 hours ago, swissie said:

Nevermind Portugal or any other place. If contemplating to take permanent residence in any "Cheap and warm country", better do it now. This way, one might be able to secure some form of "Grandfathering-Rights".

The doors are closing. 10 years from now, Immigration-Officers will ask you "how long is your Yacht" and not how much is your state-pension.
The writing is on the wall.

Well said.  Even Portugal has raised cost of the golden visa plan.  For us retirees, the have canceled the 10 year zero tax program.  Just what I need as my capacity for anything wains and my cost to keep living rises.  Thank you Portugal for your magnificent welcome and good treatment.

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes, about Colombia like pretty much everyone else looking at it, Medellin gets most of the attention. But for a variety of reasons I've already rejected it. Part of it is expense (as I would need to go for more budget friendly options) as one can live in the Coffee Region cities or Bucaramanga for considerably less than Medellin. Of course beach types will be looking at Cartagena and San Marta but for a variety reasons the Colombian beach city options don't interest me. Not that I'm against beach cities. I still like Puerto Vallarta in Mexico though again it's a budget issue.

 

As far as Panama, I have looked into options nearby to Panama City but I haven't really seen anything that looks appealing to me. Also Panama City is both very hot AND very humid. I don't want that. I think Panama City is more for working and business type expats, not so much for retirees. As I said before I see the appeal of mild weather small town Boquette and that might be a great option for people as they get older. People generally take the bus one hour to the (very hot) city of David for shopping and hospitals, etc.

 

That's very interesting what you've reported about the upgraded development in  Siem Reap. I'd be curious to see the result of that.

 

I hadn't realized the VAT in Portugal was that high. At the end of the day, Portugal is probably a pipe dream for me as I already mentioned the budget concerns. Before that video Madeira wasn't really on my radar. That does look like a kind of paradise island. If I was like three times wealthier and could do it right, I could see doing Portugal, but I'm not. 

 

Thanks for the kind personal comment. I should say that researching other countries and visa options is a bit of a hobby which I've had for long before I moved to Thailand. In all likelihood I will stay in Thailand but I want to have my Plan B "ducks in a row" should I feel that I'm about to get forced out of here. Of course another option might be an Elite Visa here. It's not that I think Thailand is the best of all possible worlds, it obviously isn't, but my personal setup here would be hard to beat anywhere else and it represents a lot of investment that I would mostly lose if I left. I realize that for those that aren't invested that way here (or anywhere) they really can move on a dime.

 

I started this topic on Portugal not because it's likely that I will move there, but only because I discovered that I could probably swing their visa that I had previously determined would be a no go. So it seemed worth at least a second look. 

 

People interested in Portugal usually also consider Spain. Well I looked at their financial requirements again. For me, no way Jose!

 

 

I will most likely go to Panama to get my life time residency as my plan B.  I will need a safe base in case the worst case happen in world econ or a China USA war breaks out.  Also, I do deep dives into global economics and all the evidence indicates the USA is on the fast track to being a failed state.  The market economy is not thriving, because we have pretty much destroyed our small banks which are the key to a healthy market economy.  Both China and Germany, which are #1 and #3 in exports have a plethora of small banks to keep the market economy going.  The payoff is increasing salaries and good ongoing growth and employment.  Most americans confuse the financial economy, wall street, with a market economy, which consists of consumption and production. 

14 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes, about Colombia like pretty much everyone else looking at it, Medellin gets most of the attention. But for a variety of reasons I've already rejected it. Part of it is expense (as I would need to go for more budget friendly options) as one can live in the Coffee Region cities or Bucaramanga for considerably less than Medellin. Of course beach types will be looking at Cartagena and San Marta but for a variety reasons the Colombian beach city options don't interest me. Not that I'm against beach cities. I still like Puerto Vallarta in Mexico though again it's a budget issue.

 

As far as Panama, I have looked into options nearby to Panama City but I haven't really seen anything that looks appealing to me. Also Panama City is both very hot AND very humid. I don't want that. I think Panama City is more for working and business type expats, not so much for retirees. As I said before I see the appeal of mild weather small town Boquette and that might be a great option for people as they get older. People generally take the bus one hour to the (very hot) city of David for shopping and hospitals, etc.

 

That's very interesting what you've reported about the upgraded development in  Siem Reap. I'd be curious to see the result of that.

 

I hadn't realized the VAT in Portugal was that high. At the end of the day, Portugal is probably a pipe dream for me as I already mentioned the budget concerns. Before that video Madeira wasn't really on my radar. That does look like a kind of paradise island. If I was like three times wealthier and could do it right, I could see doing Portugal, but I'm not. 

 

Thanks for the kind personal comment. I should say that researching other countries and visa options is a bit of a hobby which I've had for long before I moved to Thailand. In all likelihood I will stay in Thailand but I want to have my Plan B "ducks in a row" should I feel that I'm about to get forced out of here. Of course another option might be an Elite Visa here. It's not that I think Thailand is the best of all possible worlds, it obviously isn't, but my personal setup here would be hard to beat anywhere else and it represents a lot of investment that I would mostly lose if I left. I realize that for those that aren't invested that way here (or anywhere) they really can move on a dime.

 

I started this topic on Portugal not because it's likely that I will move there, but only because I discovered that I could probably swing their visa that I had previously determined would be a no go. So it seemed worth at least a second look. 

 

People interested in Portugal usually also consider Spain. Well I looked at their financial requirements again. For me, no way Jose!

 

 

We are pretty much in agreement across the board. For several years I have been researching optimum places to live. Like you, econ is key.  I have learned to live sanely in Cambodia and the people are really a special experience.  If one can live frugally, life here can be very inexpensive.  Panama restaurant prices in the more expat heavy areas are much higher than Cambodia.  Keep in mind Siem Reap has a great restaurant offering and the food can be quite good at any price range. Just had an exceptional Greek food experience at a restaurant owned by a Turkish fellow .  One of my best food experiences. A week before, I had a great experience at an italian restaurant, that was owned by a Turk. Seems like Greeks are known for the excellent food.  Also, I am older and the infrastructure build out is too slow for me, but over the last several years they have been building out at the speed of light.  Chinese money just pouring in. I have been looking for an upgrade. Like you I am financially driven. My anchor to Asia has been a nightmare happening re a real estate conflict in Thailand.  Second time to court just being arranged.  In the past I read a great book by an very successful Irish fellow who was sent to jail while on a quest he was pursuing re an investment issue in thailand.  He called it the scam capital of the world. My experiences echo that sentiment.  I interviewed lawyers and real estate people and they were all scammers.  The most aggressive scammers were non Thai, but Thai women are world class at separating foreigners from their money.  Nothing prepared me for my experience with a thai women.  Until last year, in many circumstances, the local courts found in favor of the women.  A new precedent was set this year by the court that granted consideration to the foreign man. The Thai women I connected to was university educated, came from a prosperous family.  However, she was a sociopath and extremely skilled in gaslighting and frog in the pot technique.  She never once blinked as she systematically slowly pushed in the knife.  Turns out according to psychology journals, her symptoms can be the result of culture mores, and is embedded from many, many past generations. In reading the history, the Chinese use these mores commonly in their dealings.  Breaking the trust is just a matter of fact without and qualms of conscience.  Keep me posted if you have any breakthroughs on a new affordable paradise.  Good communicating with you.

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That post contains a lot to chew on which explains my delay in responding.

Obviously each of us has our own situations, priorities, needs, likes and dislikes, etc.

 

From my POV Cambodia is too "wild west" for my taste and I think it's still not advanced enough in health care. Of course their retirement visa process is indeed wonderfully easy and cheap compared to Thailand. 

 

As far as need for hot weather, well, I don't need it. I do hate very cold weather but my ideal is one of those "year long spring" climates such as in the Paisa region (Medellin but I've rejected that as too bubbly and high crime / Coffee axis cities (Armenia, Pereira, Manizales) / Bucaramanga areas of Colombia and the central colonial cities of Mexico such as  (especially) Queretaro, Guadalajara, and Guanajuato. 

 

I understand that's not exactly what Portugal offers especially going north. But it's a matter of level and I think I could tolerate some cold for some months.

 

A priority for me is never needing a car or bike. That makes cities like Porto and Lisbon with excellent public transportation attractive. 

 

As far as Panama, no I haven't been there (but have been to Costa Rica) and based on my research I've rejected it. Yes the visa is doable and the welcome is real, but where I would really want to live there is Panama City and that isn't cheap enough for me. 

 

So the obvious other option is expat ghetto Boquette which I guess I could do but don't particularly want to. 

 

My impression is that the food isn't great either. (For me Costa Rica has the most boring food I've ever eaten.) 

 

So in Latin America, Colombia and Mexico remain the only options on my Plan B list. 

 

As far as Portugal I really do see the strong pros but there are also strong cons for me.

 

The strongest con may be that even though I think I could qualify financially for the D7 visa, it would be a lot more expensive to live a decent life than the basic requirements. Particularly for housing. So that means some pretty serious compromises. Like maybe needing to move into marginally safe, far out neighborhoods, moving to small boring cities far out of Lisbon, moving into tiny and/or crappy apartments etc.

 

Portugal has become very popular for expats. That means real estate cost bubbles in expat popular areas. 

 

Compare that to the option of moving into a largish, modern, luxury condo with a great view in a central safe top rated neighborhood in a city like Manizales Colombia (often compared to San Francisco) for approximately 450 USD a month and something not as fabulous but still very decent for 250 USD. 

 

Bang for the buck is a big draw to moving abroad. If I'm going to have to live rough it might be smarter just to repatriate to the U.S. 

 

I could get around that by digging more deeply into my retirement funds but that would be risky.

 

Another downside is psychological. It's a little embarrassing and irrational but I find the sound of European Portuguese to be unpleasant. I feel the same way about Vietnamese. I remember getting on the plane going home from my long trip to Portugal and being relieved that I wouldn't have to hear it anymore. I much prefer Spanish (preferably Latin American Spanish) or Brazilian Portuguese (although I have no interest in moving to Brazil). 

 

Perhaps that could be addressed with hypnosis or something, ha ha, but why force it. Also after five years, to go for permanent residence or citizenship you do need to speak at least basic Portuguese.

 

I looked into some of the complicating issues I mentioned in my O.P. and did conclude that they were probably all addressable with the use of a presumably expensive agent.

 

This video in particular was most helpful.

 

To mention some of them:

 

Bank account in Portugal? Can be opened through agent. Or you could open on a trip of course.

 

Money in Portugal which is now generally needed for the initial D7 application outside. Obviously you can wire that in once you have the account.

 

Amount initially needed? Approximately 10,000 USD.

 

There is controversy about the exact income requirements. This video says 1000 Euro per month. In reality the law says considerably less. But each embassy/consulate has their own criteria and they have discretion to decide if you are or aren't economically viable, so 1000 Euro would be on the safe side. That's the main reason for rejection. Under funded.

 

According to this video it is mentioned that ASSETS can also be considered. I'm a little skeptical about that. Have not seen the law on that. 

 

Need to show an address? No problem through an agent. They can provide a welcome letter to a specific address. Sorted. 

 

Health insurance? Generally you can buy via the agent the initial four months policy through the bank of your account.

 

Apparently (and this was very surprising, needs confirmation) after the initial residency process in Portugal you can join the very decent national health care program. I assume there is some cost but that sounds almost too good to be true especially for older people with preexisting conditions. (Colombia has a similar offer.)

 

On the taxation thing, OK so it isn't tax free for 10 years, but would Portugal go after foreign sourced income such as pensions and/or global wealth and assets?

 

This particular visa agent mentioned they have dealt with clients in Thailand. 

 

Of course you would need an officialized police record report for Thailand for both the initial D7 application in Thailand and also for initial process in Portugal. So two of them! There is a risk the latter one could expire in validity. I've seen that problem before for Ecuador. If applying in Thailand would you ALSO need a police report from your home country?

 

So overall even though I have some personal factors that reduce my interest in Portugal (housing costs and dislike of the language) I can see that for many people Portugal's D7 offer will be simply wonderful.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the comprehensive response.  Much appreciated.  Watched the video and it was pretty good.  I have seen that source before, and they do a pretty good job.  I liked you comments of Columbia, and was surprised by the cities you mentioned.  I had never heard of them.  Will dig deeper on them.  Everyone seem to be pushing Medellin. but for me air pollution not acceptable. I will share with you that when researching Portugal and the number required to qualify, answers are all over the map.  The $10K bank deposit the highest I heard. When I dug deeper into that I found a women that helps people on these matters.  Her fee are really good. As for the bank account she would arrange that process for me by using a lawyer who would do the required paperwork, and use a bank manager she has a relationship with, at one of the major banks. Some reasonable fees and deal done remotely.  She comes highly recommended from the Americans & friends in Pt website.  Portugal is a little like Thailand in that many things are fluid depending on who is doing the thinking.  Also on a budget for Lisbon, I found a video, from a women I follow re Portugal, which is about her budget in Lisbon.  Basically covers what one needs to know in this time frame. On Cambodia as the wild west, I can see that.  However, the game is changing Sihanoukville the city of the sea is not finishing it's makeover funded and built by the Chinese.  It is now more a luxury destination with numerous casinos.  Nothing I know of in thailand that is at this level.  Also, Siem Reap is in the process of building or renovating 38 road.  The work is 'A" grade work.  I am amazed at the logistic ability that is being executed  for this job. Would never have thought Cambodians could work at this level.  I mountain bike on the construction sites daily and defintely have fun ducking heavy equipment at work along with massive tucks. The videos on the expected final outcome turn Siem Reap into a 'A' grade destination.  Expected project completion is end 2021.  I lived in thailand for 7 years and never saw a thai city designed to this level.  If all turn out well Siem Reap will be more like a luxury USA city, with proper on street parking,  foot paths, bicycle paths and the riverfront area vitalized to be a recreation area. Add those improvements to pub street and the massive array of good restaurants and bars and local menu restaurant and you have winning tourist draw.  To me Siem Reap has been a one pony show.  Who knows, we may to rethink leaving.  Panama and central america thoughts.  Costa Rica has never been on my radar.  I have always heard it was over priced.  Now I am hearing people who are leaving and moving to Panama claim the country is not properly structured as an economy and work visas are hard to get etc.  On the Contrary, Panama is a solid economy and well managed.  The infrastructure, according to expats are excellent for the most parts and are continuously being expanded.  Health care is raved about by expats. A new section of the international airport has been opened and Panama is the flight hub for all south America and even has more non stop flights than any country in the region including Mexico city.  Also the world's main undersea internet cables connect in Panama and passes through the canal.  This is a major reason that Panama is the main corporate headquarter location for all south america. Data, data, data drives global businesses.  In addition, On top of that, Panama has the main natural gas storage facility and distribution point for that part of the world.  Add to that special residency packages of discounts for women over 55 and men over 60. Significant discount on air tickets, restaurant meals, medical bills,  hotel rooms etc. Add to that a economy that grew 5% in 2020, and no taxes on any income from outside the country.  On food I can't comment from personal experience, but videos list the restaurant scene, bar scene, mall scene and cultural scene in PC as top notch.  Also, you are correct in that some of PC is very expensive, but there are the more outlying neighborhoods that are significantly less. By the way Panama City is the only city on the planet that include a rainforest within it boundaries. The negatives for me in the city are the lack of functional foot paths, and in parts like all cities I have heard it can be gritty.  I lived in Bangkok and loved it.  Based on my key metrics for making a decision the bright lights of Portugal begin to dim when I sober up from the Portugal allure and look at the financials.  Portugal by comparison is operating under austerity order by the EU.  That is a major drawback, and has strongly impacted the services and lives of the citizens there..  Compare 23%VAT in Portugal to 7% in Panama.  Also, the government issues you a tax number and card which is used to record all you purchases. The direct tracking of my expenses bothers me.  We have been re-looking at Portugal and not doubt it glitters, but the economics of living there for me are just hard to justify.  With the tax money saved each year in Panama I can travel to europe, and when the weather get uncomfortable fly back to Panama. Also, in Panama I can chose the exact weather I  want to live with.   I must say Portugal is like a beautiful women and the allure is hard to resist,  but when I look at the economics of living there, Portugal just does not pass the test.  Add to that, in Portugal one can have difficulties with the government offices, and I find that just too exasperating.  With all of that said, i have always been a sucker for a beautiful women, so don't count Portugal out yet.  Keep me up to date on how your process is going.  I can tell you dive deep and have the intelligence to make an optimum decision.  Sorry, maybe to long, but it is good to discuss this stuff with an intelligent human being.

On 2/26/2021 at 3:26 PM, cel67 said:

Bitkub are not accepting new registrations at the moment 

 

If I remember correctly, Bitkub was told by the Thai security exchange recently to stop adding new customers.  They are at 4000 customers and the SEC is worried about security issues. Hacks have been know to happen

BFC, I am in a similar situation.  My lawyer recommended that we file in property court, since the home was bought before the wedding and  I was the sole funder of the home.  Thai civil code recognizes ownership based on investment level.  Well we went to court, and my Thai wife flew in to thailand from the USA, to testify.  Sometime the cards of fate are just not on your side.  The assigned property court judge was on vacation and the substitute judge was from family court.  After my Thai wife did a great theartic with plenty of tear by walking straight up to the judge as soon as he sat down, I was immediately at a disadvantage.  However, as soon as she left I engaged the judge and he spoke perfect english and went to school in Washington DC.  We got along quite well and realized we both got married at the same 5 star hotel.  He advised me to cancel the property court hearing and he would refund my filing fees, a huge amount.  He recommended, not once, not twice, ..., that I refile in family court, and reschedule court date.  I would normally climb into his head, but i had waited 7 years for this day and my lawyer assured my that precedent had already be set in this type of case.  In the final judgement, the judge found that I had indeed funded the home, but, but, but, we as a married couple had rights and responsibilities to each other.  So, I am still waiting to have my attorney file my case in family court, but alas corvid has tested the intelligence of the Thai government, like most others, and everything is a mess. 

What I have learned.  Finding a competent lawyer in Bangkok in almost impossible.  Pretenders are rampant in the legal circles.  Sometime after the first case  I spent 3 months in Bangkok trying to find an attorney and was not successful.  First of all, all the large glossy ad legal firms want big bucks up front and won't even product a work plan on which the financial demands are based.  One firm insisted my case was not a divorce, but planned to use a supreme court ruling to win.  I dug into the weeds and  the details of that case were entirely different than mine.  So that one would have been lost. I found an American fellow claiming to be an attorney advertising himself on YouTube.  We set up a 1 hour session for a set price. I asked him some question on the filing fees.  He gave me the wrong answer.  Next day he asked for $3000 with no work plan.  Another time a fellow contact me after a post and said his wife was an attorney.  She turned out to be either a paralegal or a in law school working with an attorney and wanted a bunch of money.  Luckily a fellow warned me that the had a bad experience with this couple an it cost in a significant sum in additional sundry charges.  I checked around re attorneys and decided to say with mine.  He wants a significant sum if we win, and I am okay with that.  You produce results and you get paid.  Related to court hearings there are only two out comes and there is no way to verify on which side of the won, loss ledger your lawyer typically lands on.  When you go to court you roll the dice.

Next, after the first case, I did a 6 month analysis of the marriage I had been in that found that in fact I had never been married.  However, traditionally Thai courts, in similar cases give all the assets to the woman.  Well this year, a new precedent was set.  That precedent recognizes something called a common law marriage, and now men get half of the assets.  I will stop here. 

Someone mentioned that they were married in another country and were divorced here.  Why would you think that is not possible.  You are a resident here and so is she.  You both agree to file the case here and that gives the court jurisdiction over the case.  I checked USA law, and some states will recognize a divorce from another country and some will not. A key point related to where they do accept the divorce is was it contested.  The rest of the world will most likely accept the Thai divorce.  Your property is already settled and the court will probably accept your decisions.  The process as explained to me is as follows: 1. file the case. 2. Court date set.  3. Mediation hearing will occur on the court set date.  In your case your are done.  4. If necessary, a formal hearing will be conducted the next day and the final judgement delivered.  Court will sell any home owned if the foreigner is deemed owner or is awarded sums of money the other party can not supply.  Game over.  Easy if you can find an competent and trustworthy attorney.  I will give you my attorneys name if you want it.  However,  I would rather not do that with a post.

Cambodia foreigner policies have always shown more intigence than Thailand's.  I live in Cambodia, moved from thailand to escape the craziness of government policies.  No excuses.

I have been told by currency transfer platforms that Thailand is one of the worst countries to transfer from.  The banks here will not support the transfer, because they want to charge their higher fees and make the money.  I was told one bank will cooperate  ?????

Good decision.  By USA law, to renounce one's citizenship one must have completed all tax requirements.  He is now out of those obligations. Since he was born it the USA his birth certificate legally binds him to all USA law and liabilities unless he opts out of citizenship legally. Keep in mind the USA is the only country on the globe that follows their citizens relative to taxation.  

My opinion, if I had the choice, I would not want citizenship in either of the two countries.  However, the fellow seem to be happy and one can not for anything more than that.  Good luck to him.

Seems like a lot of people dissing the guy, and they are living in Thailand.  Maybe the Thai government should throught them out, and end their unhappiness. 

justin case

Justin, a short term neighbor of mine in Cambodia had a situation like that in Thailand.  He refused to pay his monthly fees because the management was not meeting reporting rules.  One day he came home and 2 senior Thai police force officers stopped him and told him he would be jailed if he did not pay up.  Apparently they skimmed the management fees and supported the corrupt management.  He hired a lawyer and nothing was happening.  Somehow a friend connected him to a lawyer who also was from a very powerful family.  the lawyer told him the police and the defendants were lifelong friends from school boy days and that is what was creating his impediment.  The new lawyer kicked ass and he won the case.  My friend moved back to Thailand. No matter what, in Thailand connections matter. My wife's father was best friends with the #2 guy in the national thai police and they dutifully pay their patronage fees on the appointed day. I am not done yet,  Thanks for you comments.

Kalasin Jo

No doubt you were very lucky.  I had a similar divorce and we broke though.  However, there must be some moral integrity on the part of both litigants.  The main property in dispute could allow for both of us to buy a seperate home.  However, she has here name on the title and she is not giving an inch. I have an Asian friend that will coach me on the female Asian mind and how to work with that aspect of the case.  We will see, so far I am impressed with the advice. Maybe I will just move to the USA and take up residence in the home there with my wife and daughter.  We will see how that works out. Also, the USA Attorney's office just opened an office focused on nullification of naturalization if fraud can be shown.  That is a really big stick.  Thanks for the comments.

bkk6060

Thanks for your comments.  50-50 does not necessarily apply.  The home was bought pre marriage.  We bought 2 cars and she did not put my name on the title only hers. I instructed her to include me on those titles.  When we sold the cars she, the thai speaker, handled the transaction and the money went into her private account.  lawyer told me that the 50-50 rule can be broken.  She can make a negative claim about me and ask the judge to compensate her for my poor treatment.  The court could award the entire home to her and we are taking a lot of money.  Thai law for divorce included undisputed and fault. I found at fault on of the litigants can really get screwed.

Scouse123

My lawyer had no say in the action I took related to the judges recommendations.  I made that decision and not I am considering whether it was a poor decision.  I will find the judge, only 4 in central family court and talk with him. Thanks for you interest.