MeePeeMai

5 hours ago, JimGant said:

The wife's checklist when I croak is -- don't worry about filing a US tax return. Why? Because I've got it setup that she'll overwithhold by about $400 of what her tax bill would be, if she ever filed. Which she won't,

Okay I'll let it go, sounds like you got it covered!  Cheers!

4 hours ago, MeePeeMai said:

Have you ever gone several years without filing your taxes and then tried to file the current year because you now owe tax that year or you have a decent tax return on it?  I have.

 

The IRS will NOT ACCEPT you current year tax return until you file the previous years returns which have not yet been filed.  I've been there and done that. I have experienced it first hand.

Even if you are already dead JimGant.  Straight from the IRS' website (link in my last post above) - 

"If the deceased person did not file individual income tax returns for the years before their death, their surviving spouse or representative may have to file prior year returns."

Surely you don't want this burden to fall on your wife's shoulders after you die.  Not without some solid help anyway... and yes, she will need someone in the US to help her.  

32 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

37 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Save your breath. Again, the wife is a US citizen, thus, none of the things you mention apply to her.

 

Sorry double post so JimGant would know that I was addressing him.

This might be useful as well seeing that your US citizen spouse will be inheriting your IRA's and other assets in the USA and will be required to file a final year return for you (joint return?) especially if she takes distributions from your IRA's that year.

.... and also will be required to file on her own as a widow after your passing in future years (assuming she will be taking distribution(s) from her inherited IRA's at some point in the future).

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/filing-a-final-federal-tax-return-for-someone-who-has-died

Oh wait, I forgot, she doesn't need to file any taxes after your passing.... never mind my bad

Carry on

Double post

3 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Presnock is pretty smart. And, certainly, he knows that there are minor exceptions for filing requirements, like, have self-employment income exceeding $400.

I think you got it backwards but 

I rely on what's clearly written in the IRS' website.  

You have to file an income tax return if your net earnings from self-employment were $400 or more. If your net earnings from self-employment were less than $400, you still have to file an income tax return if you meet any other filing requirement listed in the Form 1040 and 1040-SR instructionsPDF.

Link below.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/self-employed-individuals-tax-center

Just now, JimGant said:

Save your breath. Again, the wife is a US citizen, thus, none of the things you mention apply to her.

Okay I got that now (after 3 times in a row)

Just now, Mike Teavee said:

Lol, you should... I love Sherlock (Holmes) , I grew up on (Sir) Conan Doyle & he's never been replaced in my favourite books to read, shows//movies to watch 🙂 

Me too, love him - 

Have a great evening and thanks for the company!!

15 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

sherlock

That was unnecessary but I take it as a compliment, thanks

🙏

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

If you have income.., 

 

And if you don’t have income it’s not fraud. 
 

I feel like a stuck record here but not filing a Tax Return does not mean that you are guilty of Tax evasion in any country.

 

In your response to me you mentioned that "if you don't have any income it's not fraud"  

"Not filing a tax return does not mean you are guilty of tax evasion" is indeed true.... 

UNLESS you are not filing tax returns in order to prevent paying the taxes that you would have owed had you filed your tax returns.  Simply not filing because you don't owe taxes is not tax evasion. 

Failure to file tax returns when you owe taxes is tax evasion if they can show a pattern of someone not filing their tax returns in order to avoid paying the taxes due (though this might be reserved for those with large outstanding tax liabilities).  Failure to file is a separate charge.

4 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

If you have income that they can prove (via 1099 form or W2's for example), they will not come after you for a long time if you do not file your tax returns,

And what about the word FRAUD?

"Tax evasion" is not Fraud.  I never said it was.

Here, read this post once again so you can understand... it's simple really-

31 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

But to respond to you, YES if you have no income you are not required to file a US tax return (obviously).

 

If you read what I said, I merely stated that if you have income, and you are above the IRS' poverty threshold, and you are not covered by any filing exemption such as a disabled VET getting disability etc. etc. etc.

 

THEN you are required to file a tax return (even if you overpaid your estimated taxes or withheld too much from your salary).  Poster Presnock believes that you are not required to file a tax return (at any income level) as long as you don't owe any ADDTIONAL tax to the IRS.  That is false. 

 

"Failure to file a tax return" is a separate charge from "Tax Evasion" or "Filing a false Tax Return" though sometimes they obviously go hand in hand and some are tried and convicted on one or more of those charges.  It depends on if you willfully conceal income or file a false tax return to "evade" taxes or simply refuse to file but otherwise are not evading paying your taxes.

 

Again like I posted above, if you do not owe any "ADDITIONAL" taxes (over and above what you have already paid) then there will be NO PENALTIES OR INTEREST due for "Filing Late" or missing the deadline to file but you are still required to file your taxes (in that case)... okay file late no problem.

 

1 minute ago, Mike Teavee said:

If you have income.., 

 

And if you don’t have income it’s not fraud. 
 

I feel like a stuck record here but not filing a Tax Return does not mean that you’re evading paying Tax.

 

I never mentioned FRAUD in any of my posts.  You must have me mixed up with another poster.

But to respond to you, YES if you have no income you are not required to file a US tax return (obviously).

If you read what I said, I merely stated that if you have income, and you are above the IRS' poverty threshold, and you are not covered by any filing exemption such as a disabled VET getting disability etc. etc. etc.

THEN you are required to file a tax return (even if you overpaid your estimated taxes or withheld too much from your salary).  Poster Presnock believes that you are not required to file a tax return (at any income level) as long as you don't owe any ADDTIONAL tax to the IRS.  That is false. 

"Failure to file a tax return" is a separate charge from "Tax Evasion" or "Filing a false Tax Return" though sometimes they obviously go hand in hand and some are tried and convicted on one or more of those charges.  It depends on if you willfully conceal income or file a false tax return to "evade" taxes or simply refuse to file but otherwise are not evading paying your taxes.

Again like I posted above, if you do not owe any "ADDITIONAL" taxes (over and above what you have already paid) then there will be NO PENALTIES OR INTEREST due for "Filing Late" or missing the deadline to file but you are still required to file your taxes (in that case)... okay file late no problem.

There is a 30% IRS mandated Federal withholding on IRA's inherited by foreign nationals.

https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/plan-distributions-to-foreign-persons-require-withholding

So if your Thai wife inherits your IRAs in the USA and they deduct 30% Federal withholding on the totals there are procedures and forms that need to be filed... unless of course, she just lets the IRS just keep all that money. 

There may also be Thai taxes due (I don't remember but I recall some issues with Thai tax when Thais Inherit "foreign assets").  Read your double tax treaty to figure it all out.

If you really want to set things up to make it easier on her then you need facts from someone who specializes in foreign citizens inheriting assets in the USA.  Your International CPA sounds like they are out of the loop (so to speak).

2 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Are you familiar with spreadsheets? I certainly have the data to project this year's taxes on my projected income; and how much withholding I need -- plus some extra withholding to cover non-1099 income, like my interest on Bangkok Bank savings account. When I set up my wife's W4, this will automatically increase with inflation, just as with new tax rates. Thus, that $400 buffer I've built in - using the the "extra withhold" on the W4-- will be self-adjusting.

 

The IRS will actually send you a IRS prepared tax return -- if their data from 1099s exceeds what they show from your withholding/estimated tax data. So, yeah, the the final authority on whether or not your withholding exceeded your tax bill -- is the IRS, as you say. I say: Most of us will have all the info needed to compare our future tax bill to our annual withholdings. And, thus, make sure the withholdings exceed that projected tax bill. And don't file, if you have a good reason not to.

That's fine for this year (assuming you don't die this year but...  your final year is a different story, especially with regard to your wife being a foreign citizen (I assume).

It can get very complicated.

I don't know your personal situation or the amounts in your IRA etc. but there may (or probably will be) Federal taxes due on the Inheritance of your IRA (traditional IRA?).  I know that the double tax treaty in Thailand comes into play but regardless, Uncle Sam wants to make sure he gets his piece of your pie (however small or large it may be) and there is automatic withholding of Federal taxes on the inherited IRA (which will be kept until such time it is determined how much your wife would owe on the proceeds).

If your international tax advisor is telling you otherwise then you might want/need a second professional opinion from an International Tax Attorney specializing in foreign nationals inheriting IRA's and other assets in the USA .

Your wife might need to get a T.I.N. from the IRS and file herself for the year in which she inherits your IRA and estate in the USA.

We all want to make it easier on our loved ones when we check out but the bureaucracy continues even after we're gone (unfortunately), and foreign nationals inheriting US assets are a complicated affair.

I was married to a Thai for 5 years and I looked into all of this trying to get my estate in order and ready to leave everything to her as painless as possible.  You are right, your wife will never be able to navigate this all on her own.  She probably needs qualified and competent assistance to get everything done after you die.

I'm not beating the horror drum here, I'm just saying that your final plan sounds like it needs further guidance than just overpaying your taxes and telling your wife not to file a final year return etc..

There are many things to consider if leaving it all to your wife and further research on "Thai or Foreign Nationals inheriting IRAs etc." and what's involved in the process.

Have a look at this link (for example)

https://fastercapital.com/content/Inherited-IRA-for-Non-U-S--Citizens--International-Considerations.html#Understanding-the-Inherited-IRA-for-Non-USCitizens

There may be "withholding requirements" from the inherited IRA for example... and if your wife has a Green Card then it will be less complicated because of the double tax treaty etc. but I don't see how she can avoid seeing to it somehow that your last return is submitted to the IRS.

Your International tax experts should be able to file for you (her) if needed.  For a small fee of course.

7 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Wife will already have a problem with my demise, as she's completely computer illiterate. Having her being able to avoid the tax problem -- should ameliorate  the situation somewhat.

I understand but the IRS doesn't. 

I could be wrong about this one but I don't believe that your wife can inherent your IRA (as a beneficiary) or any other probate free assets in the USA until your Federal taxes are complete for your final year (and she'll need your death certificate).  It must be shown that there will be no final taxes due on your estate - "probate free" or not.

My sister went through this when her husband died.

If any US citizen thinks that they over withheld or paid too much in estimated quarterly taxes, it is not up to that taxpayer to decide that.  The IRS ultimately decides whether or not this is the case (via an individual person's tax return and a the possibility of an audit), otherwise if we feel free to exclude ourselves from filing (because we don't owe any more money) then everybody would do it.

1 minute ago, JimGant said:

Also, this position on no need to file, if no taxes owed, is fully vetted by the CPA organization I belong to.

So if a person...  let's just say Donald Trump or Jeff Bezos for example, overpaid their quarterly estimated taxes and would thereby NOT owe any additional Federal taxes on their personal income taxes, or would be even due a refund, would not be required to file a tax return?

This is an extreme example I am using but THIS is what you said:

28 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

in the USA. If you've overwithheld, or paid estimated taxes over your final tax bill -- and thus owe no taxes -- you don't have to file a tax return. Period.

Is this statement that you made True or FALSE?

30 minutes ago, JimGant said:

The wife's checklist when I croak is -- don't worry about filing a US tax return. Why? Because I've got it setup that she'll overwithhold by about $400 of what her tax bill would be, if she ever filed. Which she won't, 'cause she wouldn't have a clue how to do it; no CPAs here in Chiang Mai; just gathering 1099s online to give to the tax preparer would be impossible; and going to Bangkok, or even by mail, would cost in the neighborhood of $300-400. What a hassle. Just donate $400 to Uncle Sam, save yourself any hassle, and consider it a wash with any tax preparer fee.

Your probate estate in the USA (should you have any money, stocks, bonds, IRA accounts or property there etc.) CANNOT be settled or finalized until your final years taxes have been submitted and accepted by the IRS.  Especially if they think there are, or could be taxes owed for that year or prior years.  This is common knowledge.

I use Turbo tax and one of the questions is "Are you filing this return for a person who is now deceased?"  If yes, they will allow someone else to file for the deceased party (spouse/family member/your executor/accountant etc).

If you have nothing in the USA and have a Thai will then I suppose you are okay in your planning for your eventual death here. Mai Pen Rai

But if you have any assets in the USA, your final tax return MUST be filed in order to finish the probate process there in the USA.

4 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Certainly it doesn't in the USA. If you've overwithheld, or paid estimated taxes over your final tax bill -- and thus owe no taxes -- you don't have to file a tax return. Period.

That's not true.  

You are still required to file your taxes even if you overpaid or will owe nothing after filing (unless you are in the under the IRS' poverty income threshold or some other exception i.e. a wounded VET on disability income etc.).

If you overpaid via quarterly estimated taxes or they will owe you a tax refund, then you won't be facing any penalties or interest for not filing before the on or about April 15th deadline (on or about Oct. 15 for expats automatic extension), but you are still required to file unless you meet one of the IRS' exemptions.

However, if they owe you a tax refund and you wait 3 years or more to the day to file for it (from that particular years deadline to file) you will not get that refund as their "statute of limitations for claiming your refund"  has expired.  No statute of limitations if you own them money (unofficially it's 10 years but they will haunt you the rest of your life for it).

Have you ever gone several years without filing your taxes and then tried to file the current year because you now owe tax that year or you have a decent tax return on it?  I have.

The IRS will NOT ACCEPT you current year tax return until you file the previous years returns which have not yet been filed.  I've been there and done that. I have experienced it first hand.

So unless the IRS is getting "soft" on us (which I highly doubt), then what you said is absolutely false.  PERIOD.

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

Not filing a tax return does not mean you're committing Tax Evasion,

In the USA it does.  If you have income that they can prove (via 1099 form or W2's for example), they will not come after you for a long time if you do not file your tax returns, but they WILL get you eventually.  They just lay back, watch and wait until   1.  The preponderance of evidence is obvious   2.  It's more than worth their while to charge you as they can and will take EVERYTHING YOU OWN before you even appear in court.

I had a good friend in the USA who followed some "Tax is voluntary / unconstitutional / not mandatory" cult and he stopped filing and paying his tax returns for many years.  They let him slide for years until 6 months before he was eligible to retire and receive his pension, then they came to his home and arrested him (and his policewoman girlfriend) for tax evasion and not filing tax returns.  The police department fired him (they had no choice).

They SIEZED EVERYTHING HE OWNED including all of his bank accounts, his house (and everything in it including furniture and even clothes), his boat, his motorcycles, his cars and his empty lot that was passed down to him form his father.  They auctioned off all of his personal property and kept all monies and stock etc. that he owned.  He got nothing back (even though the tax and interest/penalties that he owed were significantly less than his total net worth.  

He went to Federal prison for several years and when he was finally released he was broke, destitute and homeless (no pension either).  He was also charged by the State of Hawaii for tax evasion and failure to file a tax return (though I don't know what happened in that case).

They can and will make an example out of some folks.  That was an eyeopener for me to say the least.

Good to see you're living the dream!   I used to fantasize about mining BTC myself and I wished I had done so in the early days.

I guess my biggest regret (most of us have) is that I wish I would have embraced BTC sooner.  I sat on the fence for a long time thinking that it was just a "pet rock fad" and wouldn't last etc.  I had a chance to load up on Bitcoin when it was practically free but I laughed it off and turned it down.  What a mistake that was. 

It's still very early though and like you I'm getting old, but I don't have any children to leave it to so who knows... maybe I'll just take mine with me when I check out of this body and ad to the "lost forever" stack.

Keep on Bitcoinin!!

4 minutes ago, scott1999 said:

Hi PeeMeeMai 

Everything in Thailand can be questioned. 

You said....  could be wrong but mining BTC here is considered a business and is frowned upon by the Thai authorities because of the high amount of electricity it uses and the "impact on the climate" as reported in many online news articles. 

I have done some checking and even the PEA is ok. As for the impact on the climate, I'm using second-hand solar panels that would be going into a landfill, so I feel I'm doing my bit for the environment.

 

You said....Has been frowned upon.

I did read an article that the government's happy as long as you pay tax on any profits of which it's going to take me a long time after all the investment to make any profits so it's up to them I'll do whatever they say till then I'll keep going.

 

 as for stealing the electricity anyone who does that deserves what they get.

 

 Thank you again

 

PS The site of the solar farm is my land next to the villa I intend to do something like the second picture and the PEA are helping me to do it

 

 

 

 

Wow that's an impressive solar array!  Very nice of the PEA to assist you with your endeavor.

I hope you didn't think I was bashing you or being sarcastic.  I was merely concerned for your well being here and like I said, I really do wish you the best of luck and I hope you are very successful  in your BTC mining operation.  

I've been into BTC since 2017 and it's been a wild ride so far.  No complaints here... other than all the money I lost in sh*t coins in 2017/2018 (when a family member talked me into "diversifying my portfolio for better gains").  Never again, I learned that lesson the hard way.  It's BTC only for me now.

Well take care, have a great day and thanks for the pics / thread. 

Wow OP you must have a rather large pair to be running a bitcoin mining business (even a small one) here in Thailand.  

I could be wrong but mining BTC here is considered a business and is frowned upon by the Thai authorities because of the high amount of electricity it uses and the "impact on the climate" as reported in many online news articles.  

There are numerous new articles about raids on BTC mining sites all over the country (though most were either stealing electricity or the bills had gone unpaid for some time) but the equipment was seized and the sites shut down.  The import of the mining machines were also called into question.

A quick internet search has tons of stories about BTC mining raids here in Thailand.

I hope you did your due diligence and research before heading into this venture and I truly wish you all the best but wouldn't it have been easier, safer and maybe even more profitable to just spend that money on BTC and hodl it?

17 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Tracking large transactions, which would include deposits from overseas. 

 

Australia tracks every transaction over $10,000. 

The USA does as well.  

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

You will become a tax resident of Thailand after the 27th June 2024, for the calendar year of 2024, provided you haven't travels outside Thailand from the 1st January until the 27th June. 

I agree.  I got my ticket out of here on Sunday the 16th.

That leaves me with 10 more days in the bank this year just in case I need to stop off here again this year (for a short time).