Steph1012

And here it is!

[/b]Tornado 2006-09-29 17:51:38 Post #45

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Posts: 2,870

Joined: 2004-06-06

From: Nakhon Si Thammarat

Member No.: 10,415

QUOTE(Steph1012 @ 2006-09-29 15:31:30)

Nice try Tornado. Keep talking it up and try not to get too steamed up about it as well, we all have opinions and this is mine.

I am a keen cyclist and clock up hundreds of KM every week on and off the Island. Get out of your office and car a bit more if you want to know whats going on here.

Just seen 350 rai being auctioned off, and here are four full pages of houses for sale.

http://phuketgazette.net/classifieds/phuke...f=2006929151115

Also try a search on Google, theres thousands of adds. Lot of land was bought up by speculators and they are struggling to shift any of it.

Some of these have been on for over a year. A lot of these adds are for multiple houses on developments and there are massive plots of land.

Try Chao Fah Road as well. There are hundreds of properties for sale at Land and house, Middle Road, Phuket Villa etc. etc., Massive complexes going in up at Talang as well.

Hundreds of plots for sale and when you ring about one, you are always offered more choices as a lot of the adds are from agents and discounts are always offered.

AND THE REPLY FROM TORNADO

Im not getting steamed up, Im suggesting you are looking at crap land in crap locations.

Who wants to live in these areas? That is the Thai market. Your initial response to this thread was regarding land being plentifull, this is not the case.

Houses are always for sale and always will be. Land on the other hand is very hard to get in the right areas.

Hundreds of plots for sale, but where? How much? Are the titles ok? due dilligence done? under the 80 meter height restriction? flying sor kor 1? national park? airport noise? zone? build height restrictions? servitude? water? electricity?

The west coast has 5 plots left on the beach and that is a pretty large coast.

The Panwa area: looks like loads of land until you get the paperwork and they are either tor bor 6 or sor kor 1, which is no good to a foreigner.

The Kathu area: try and find a 1 or 2 Rai plot without a major overhead powerline behind you.

The Layan area: Last year selling at 3-4 mil per Rai, now 7 mil and up and very hard to find.

The Surin area: try and find a nice sea view plot.

Kamala: millionaires row. 3 plots left on the whole road.

Mai Kao: 2 beachfront land plots and other than that, some jungle plots in horrible locations.

Rawai: find a 1 rai plot.

Nai Harn: rare as rocking horse shit.

Patong: two larger plots left under the 80 meter mark and no 1 rai plots.

Cherngtalay: plenty of low level land that needs to filled (cost about 600 k a Rai to fill)

Thalang: last year 500 k per rai, now 1 mil per Rai and selling to Bangkok Thais and a few foreigners.

Chalong: I can go throgh every road if you like.

East Coast: Ao Phor, not much sea view left and selling at 7 mil per Rai and upwards.

Yamoo: 25 mil per Rai if you buy in the nice area and other land in this area is land banked by Thais from Bangkok or anyone with money for that matter.

Koh Sirea, a dump and the most lawless area on the island and the land price is still 6 mil and up per rai.

Now lets go through your post:

Just seen 350 rai being auctioned off, and here are four full pages of houses for sale."

350 Rai isnt what the average foreigner wants and the houses I've already covered.

"Also try a search on Google, theres thousands of adds. Lot of land was bought up by speculators and they are struggling to shift any of it."

Thousands? Please show me the adds where they are struggling to sell. What price did they pay for it and what area was it in?

"Some of these have been on for over a year. A lot of these adds are for multiple houses on developments and there are massive plots of land."

Developers usually advertise for many years, it obviously depends on location and price and the quality of the product.

"Try Chao Fah Road as well. There are hundreds of properties for sale at Land and house, Middle Road, Phuket Villa etc. etc., Massive complexes going in up at Talang as well. "

Very badly built, thrown together with sub standard fixtures and fittings, aimed mainly at the Thai market. Thalang is also a Thai village area and we can wait and see if the average foreigner thinks its for them.

"Hundreds of plots for sale and when you ring about one, you are always offered more choices as a lot of the adds are from agents and discounts are always offered."

I have been in this game for ten years and anyone who knows anything about searching for land, is, there is always another plot. When looking for the right plot, there is much due dilligance to do and most turn out to be far from perfect and after you have gone through all of the neccesary checks, your out on the road again looking for more.

I am out and about everyday in my job and deal with every Thai broker on this Island. I get 60 plots a week brought into my company by 1 broker alone and after I sift through the crap, I end up with less than 10 percent.

Since arriving in Phuket way back in the late 90's, I have seen land prices (1 area for example) in Rawai go from 300,000 baht per Rai to todays price (same land) 7 million baht.

Phuket is a very good investment and I dont think there are many places in the world you could have gains like this. THERE IS ONLY A SMALL AMOUNT OF LAND LEFT AVAILABLE IN GOOD AREAS AND I DONT CARE IF NOBODY BUYS IT, I DONT CARE ABOUT BEATING UP THE MARKET, ALL I CARE ABOUT IS THAt THE RIGHT INFORMATION IS GIVEN.

Please dont listen to arm chair real estate gurus, there are more of them than land.

With new zoning laws in place it isnt as easy as before.

(I have'nt promoted my business, nor have I got anything to gain from the post above. There are well over 100 brokers on this Island now, send a few emails away to them and see if I am right) Good Luck to all!

This post has been edited by Tornado: 2006-09-29 17:55:02

OK then, lets get some stats.

My Lawyer says its almost dead and this is his main source of income. 2 of my friends (and I don't have many ) have pulled out of sales since the coup. One was looking at a hotel and a house and the other paid a deposit on some land and has walked away from it.

Me? I took the missus land/me house route and should be talking the market up, but this is not my experience. Hope it rockets but can't see it.

The Land Office stats will show if this is BS. Can we make an effort to nail this?

Anyway, we had another post like this two weeks ago with an Estate Agent talking up the market. He was so busy selling properties that he had the time to give a reason why every add in the Phuket Gazette that week was not suitable for him to buy/sell and that more adds in the paper supported his dubious claims of a shortage of land and houses!!! And there were FOUR full pages of adds that week!

Me thinks he doth protest too much!

Spot on about Pattaya. Its a festering stinking beach, oil tankers and big freighters are constantly passing, the sea front is a building site still, It floods regularly sending thousands of cockroaches into the street, the hotels are run down (bar a couple of high end ones), its festooned with agressive ladyboys... but some people love it.

How they could get quality tourists to bathe in that brown sludge when there is Phuket in the same country is beyond me.

They would have to close it down, put at least 500,000 people out of work if they were to have a serious social order clampdown.

Thats their big money spinner as well.

And what is the saying about cleaning up your own backyard? ummmm Thailand has never changed they say one thing & do another

Thats right. Its only the ignorant western press that believe this shit about farang sex tourists, and these changes are not going to weed them out as they come for a short time (no pun intended) and spend loads of cash every night. 10k plus is not unusual for a full days drinking, clubbing and "entertainment" They will not be put out in the least bit and will probably fall under the "Quality Tourist" banner due to their high daily spend. Its the ones who bus round the country on a shoe string, visiting national parks etc. and never going near the bar scene that will be weeded out.

And its mainly high paying tourists and the business community that keep the red lights on in Bangkok these days.

There are thousands of thai only brothels and bars here for every one that farangs go to. most Thai men frequent them regularly and it is a way of life here. It really is a face thing and its not going to change a bit. Maybe it will go underground a bit, but they really are taking the piss if they think that prostitution will ever go away.

there is so many talk about changes and rules.. even it is 100% clear until they change anything on this issue. i have condos here, money and and,and.....there is no way to saty here under this conditions legaly.

THE FACT IS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you are only aloud to saty 180 days per year !!!

So you are mad that you have been living off illegal earnings and not paying tax down the years, not having a work permit or any legal business. what if your condos ceiling falls and kills a tenant?

You are exactly the kind of person that these rules are meant to sort out. Not necessarily get you out of the country, but get you paying taxes etc. Thats what you hate isn't it? At any given time you could have started a business, paid the tax and Insurance and got the visa in order. You can get legal, as can most people on the 30 day tourist visa, you just don't want to.

I run a Tour Company with my wife and I am pissed off with people like you being able to undercut our prices purely because you have no visas, TAT licence, Tax, etc. to pay out. Lots of dregs walking round town, picking up tourists in bars and taking them round the tour operators, tailors, dive shops etc. and picking up commission etc. I hope they crack down on these commison payments, tax them to the hilt and make them go through companies.

Then theres all the bragging about how much money you earn and how smart you are to avoid all these expenses. I have listened to dozens of <deleted> like you down the years, scoffing at us for paying tax, TAT licence etc. Comments of "why bother, this is Thailand, it will never change" will come back to haunt you all now. One thing... you are having to be bothered now, and how! The game is up, and everyone will be the better for it.

Easy, have all Thai drivers do a new exam without bribes....

Should kick so many of the road its safe,

and as anyone on Phuket will admit, they should charge 10000 baht or more to the company/driver who gets stuck on a hill due to driving overweight or using the wrong gears.

The idiots drive a large car and havent got a clue how to drive over the hills...

What a thought how would they all get around the Island.

50 thousand bicycles a day being pushed up Patong Hill. We could build hotels for all the "Quality Tourists" on the bypass road and build a community centre where the caltex garage is.

Would put us in credit on the omissions quotas if they exist.

It seems to me that people are over reacting to Dr. Suvit's comments. Thailand does not want to close its borders to only those that can stay at 5 star hotels. Economically, they couldn't even if they wanted to, but they don't. What they want to do is change their global reputation as the place to visit for a cheap lay. It shames them and their children when they go abroad and have to listen to the way people talk about Thailand. It is the sex tours and predators that they wish to keep out.

Why?? The sex tours and predators spend lots of money the same as everyone else. I would have thought they should attract them AND everyone else. It can be done if carefully thought out.

They do. Many spend vast sums then go home.... and then send vast monthly sums!! And many of them are very wealthy, at least they are when they arrive And that makes them even more attractive doesn't it? So it's not likely to stop girls making a play for them, quite the reverse.

Should be happy they have cornered a market here and not get too fussy. The one area where they are a world wide hub and they are going to kill it. Its not the sex trade thats the problem, its that face thing again. They (the sex tourists) should have got on with it and not gone home bragging about it.

There was the tale of the freezing sparrow.

Fell off the tree and into a fresh cow pat.

The warmth save its life so it started singing.

A cat heard it, took it out and ate it!

Morals, being in the shit is ok for some folk. somebody getting you out of the shit is not necessarily a freind. If you are happy in the shit, enjoy it and keep quiet about it.

You get the tourists you deserve.

We all come here because it is what it is. Cheap, good fun, chaotic and you always feel you are abroad, not in some sterile 5 star hotel with a bunch of like minded non-smiling farangs. Go inside a big resort one day and look at just how little fun some people have when they come to Thailand.

Many 5 star customers slip the leash and end up partying and enjoying themselves for the first time in many years. Even rich people are looking for something differrent, and thats what Thailand has always been to me. Different and how

When Thailand is what high end tourists want, thats when they will flock here. Until you make it as they want it, you can whistle. So the talk will have to stop and the action (billions of Baht) will have to flow and in the meantime, they will have to get that money from somewhere. Thats called a REALITY CHECK and they will be getting one soon.

The point about the Beer Bars on the beach is totally invalid. It works because thats what people want. If you think there is something lacking, put your money where your mouth is and buy one and run it as you think fit. Again, people will come if thats what they want and if thats what they want, the beer bars would have withered on the vine years ago.

Its more optimistic jingoistic hot air.

Better to have 10m, and actually work on the infrastructure needed to deliver a decent experience to those 10m, than just blindly go for volume, when much of the volume that the previous administration were crowing about were simply people flying in, staying at some chain hotel, not spending much and crowding up and destroying scenic attractions which are a finite resource the way they are being treated at the moment.

Nice point.

This is the way to go. I may have been a bit rash and sarcastic in my last post Can I apoliogise and state that I love the "poor" service and derive much amusement from it. (had my coffee now!)

For the "quality end" more money needs to find its way from the corruption pot into the re-development pot.

Lets hope for a better TAT out of this.

"Thailand Elite" I know....but "Long Stay" and "Riviera"....anyone heard of these?

http://www.guidetothailand.com/thailand-tr...on/longstay.htm

They started advertising this heavily on Pattaya People TV around the same time as the last batch of visa rules broke out. Connected?

The Rivera? It is very similar to Thailand apart from:

There are regular bus services along the entire tourist route (exactly not like the one the mafia have banned on Phuket), and when you get on a bus it takes you to where it says on the bus, not to a bunch of taxi drivers at a coffee stand who tell you every hotel you ever heard of is closed. The airport taxis do just this as well even with high paying tourists. They stop at a travel shop en-route which their boss owns.

The traffic lights are sequenced so you only ever hit one red one on a major route unless you are breaking the speed limit. If you have an accident the Police turn up and make a report based on the circumstances, not the nationality of the drivers, or if there is a falang in the car! Anybody driving the wrong way on a motor way would be banged up until trial and definately lose their licence and receive a very heavy fine. If they caused an accident you could expect jail time and big compensation payments on top.

When you order a meal it comes, not what they remember with the rest coming after you reminded them. Its complete and in the right order. Not ice cream first as it takes less time to prepare than the main course and the starter. When you eat in a restaurant there, a procession of hawkers and camera jockeys with monkeys and eagles do not repeatedly tug on your arm.

You can enter the country anytime and stay as long as you like as we are in the EU now, not heading backwards down the visa issuing route. Many of us over winter on the Riviera and we are not bussed out of the country every 90 days and required to conform to every changing rules.

Their are tractor drawn beach cleaning machines on every beach between Marseilles and Piza, Italy that I visited.

You can walk, cycle, jog and roller skate on the footpaths and the prom without being pressured to buy suits, have massages, buy fake watches, lighters, flowers, trikets and bling. There are many major cycle routes along most a roads.

On balance though the French are a surly lot and wouldn't swap Thailand for there. But that is because my expectations are lowered when I live here. Rich people do not lower their expectations if they are paying top dollar.

Service though is more than smiling and apologising for all the things that have been forgotten, mislaid and broken. When you are dealing with "Quality Tourists" it's about forward planning, concentration and application to the job at hand, just has doesn't happen in thailand. I expect this and don't really mind, but I hear many tourists at higher end resorts going off the rails about these things.

Since the last push for quality though we have picked up the Russian and chinese high density family package tour market as far as I can see. And from what I saw on the BBC travel program, most of them came to see Katoey shows.!! The money and the commission stays in their home countries and because they come a bus load at a time they rachet the price down massively so only the agents make anything. The poor Thai workers and operators are flat out and get nothing.

I love Thailand and the Thais, but at management and organisation level, they are never going to compete seriously for the Quality end. Some will come for the beaches and to be off the beaten track but we are 20 years of infastructure development behind anywhere on the Riviera.

I need a coffee!

This week's Phuket Gazette says only 303 cards have been sole for 1 million baht each.

It also says that the Thailand Privilege Card Co. owes CNN 140 billion baht for an advertising campaign.

So, I make it they have a negative cash flow of (140,000,000,000 minus 303,000,000=?) ...

Well i never heared that they really paided for it.

Apparantly some did. The old post I found (raining again!) said 606 had been issued but 300 odd were given away.

There was also talk of 300 million in corruption as well. so if they sold 300 for 1,000,000 each sombody nicked the lot!!! Nice one

You have to remember that the forsight of the avearge Thai is about 1 minute (obviously this is much less when they are driving) and they will not forsee any problems with any of their schemes until it is far too late.

They will not feel any effects from this for years to come and by then, it will be too late to alter course and the smug posters like Thaihome and Thaible will see their lofty status eroded even more (if indeed they are Thai).

They are rich, but not as rich as the average bar girl once she has her man!!! and it hurts them beleive me, if they have to sell cars and houses to people that they feel should be planting rice.... it hurts. Protectionism never never works and if you look to Zimbabwe where they kicked out the foreigners physically, stole their houses, farms and cattle, you will note they totally ruined the country.

They are not only getting rid of some low life which is obviously a good thing and couldn't be allowed to continue, but have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. THROWN, not throwing as they are also driving off future potential retirees and investors, people more timid than the average expat and with no stomach for a lifetime of hassle from inadequate little nationalists. The only thing that any foreigners are talking about at the moment is that Thailand is not the place to invest here. This only affects Thailand and Thais.

Most people I know keep their money out of Thailand so them ruining or slowing up the econmoy affects none of us as it drives the Baht down and we all sit and watch and get richer!!

This will take some turning around, as when they realise and come offering deals and schemes for us to stay here, we will either be long gone, or not interesed (Thailand Elite Card anybody? http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=18670. Falang foresight and hindsight is much longer than Thai.

This week's Phuket Gazette says only 303 cards have been sole for 1 million baht each.

It also says that the Thailand Privilege Card Co. owes CNN 140 billion baht for an advertising campaign.

So, I make it they have a negative cash flow of (140,000,000,000 minus 303,000,000=?) ...

Unfortunately Lukemar, Thailand is always destined to be on the platform and never on the train, economy wise. They have shot themselves in more feet than a centipede has over the years.

If this is a sign that under the new government soon all the laws will be enforced and corrupt police officers will no longer be allowed to take bribes to allow illegal businesses.........then I'm all for it.

Seems like the general consensus at TV is that it was good that Toxin was given the boot because he was so corrupt........wellllllll.......if you want Toxin out because you are against corruption then ok....let's end corruption...enforce the laws...change the bad laws but in the mean time enforce the laws as they are written....let's all root for an end to corruption and applaud this first move towards a better, corruption free life in Thailand!!!!

Chownah

You make an excellent point here.

Most expats in Thailand are very selective about the types of corruption they want to see erradicated. Happy to pay 200 baht to be alowed to drive drunk, happy to drink all night in back street dens operated by the Police etc. Then somehow get all moral and jump on the anti thaksin bandwagon.

For me, I always love the hustle and bustle of Bangkok life, day and night. For those that hate Sukhimvit Road at night or in the early hours, it really is easy to avoid so give it a rest you complainers.

At least for me I have simply decided to take a look at things at about 100 days in. It would seem that things are much too fluid now. By that time the Thais that will be losing tenants and taking a serious look at foreclosure. Also there will be small to medium size Thai companies that will begin to fold because their customer base is gone. Once they start screaming and perhaps some of the less reserved ones start looking for blood, that may encourage immigration to rethink and forward adjust backwards.

My guess that around mid December the anxiety level with the effected Thais will be rather significant.

Thats right. Thai landlords and English schools will definately feel the pinch. There are many condos and apparments going up in Thailand and these are definately aimed at long stay foreigners on all bugets. They will be slowing up a bit already, but give it 3 months there could be widespread vacancies. Vacancies that will not be filled by Asian tourists. The one year leases are going to dry up as well, thus a reliable source ofincome is lost. All that property coming empty every 3-6 months with the costs that entails.

THEN!! It was proven in England that when people buy or take on long term leases (Local Authority etc.) the first thing they do is decorate, buy new furniture fittings etc, do ourstanding repairs, build extensions and spend money on the garden. You are not going to do any of this if you are only here for 3 months.

You have to think of the medium to long term effects on the economy of all this. Its like the proverbial Oil Tanker, you may slow it down now a bit, but try and get it going again later.

This year its been one scare after another, with Land Transfers, bombs and now Visa regulations. Whilst most of us are used to all this, the target long stay retirement market they are chasing, are not. This has put a lot of people off retiring here as they will want to be left to live in peace, not be required to jump through the "Hoop of the day" as we do. I'm 55, been here 15 years, and I'm even I'm thinking... not seriously yet, but..

The effect of this will not be felt for years to come, but they will be and (like the tanker) will be hard to turn around. There is no quick fix for loss of confidence once it takes hold.

Hongkong, Singapore........................

Tokyo, Kuala Lumpur, Seoul

http://www.lastminute.com/site/find/World/...an--Flight.html

http://www.lastminute.com/site/find/World/...ng--Flight.html

Let us know when you are leaving and we will wave you ff You can wave goodbye to us, to fun, to an easygoing life, affordability, smiling faces..

I didn't include Seoul as I wouldn't wish that on anybody and you were either joking or are still out on the town from saturday night. Its the least fun one can have on earth... In Asia anyway. Thats why they come here in droves.

http://www.citymayors.com/features/cost_survey.html

Asia

Three of the world's ten costliest cities are in Asia, with Seoul moving up from 5th to second place. While Tokyo has lost its title of the world most expensive city because of currency fluctuations between the Japanese Yen and the US dollar, it still ranks highly and takes third place. Hong Kong is in 4th position.

PS George. Can we have a forum on why some expats go to great lengths to live here, then whinge all the time.

I vote that Bangkok IS the best city in Asia. Any other candidates for the title?

Name them!

Love these positive threads, been too much bitching about visas lately.

Bangkok IS the best city in the world. The Thais are the best people in the world.

I love change and as I am getting on a bit now, I love the comforts of a modern city.

Basically to the folk on the Visa thread, we have given our money to the wrong class of person.

Wow what a fascinating and paranoid point, don't want to think too long and to deeply about this one!! However my wifes family passed for middle class round here before she met me. So I'm not so guilty of fomenting social revolution as some others..... Must annoy the Puu Yai Baan tho when Chao Nah Lek's daughter suddenly becomes richer and higher status than he is. Hadn't thought about that one before. Status is a double edged sharp implement round here, isn't it?

It certainly is. Status is everything to a lot of people and the poor farmer girls coming to BKK, buying cars, bikes, furnishing houses and going too beauty parlors really rankles.

I should reign myself in a bit somedays though as the vast majority of all Thais of all classes are very friendly, helpful and fun to be around. When the rains come, I spend too long on here and do get paranoid.

Swagman made a good point about shop talk and reporting. Whilst Thaksin was a bad lot and had to go, we need to remember that he didn't own all the media and some of them indeed have their own ajenda. A lot of us tend to focus on negative issues and like things to be black and white as well, as its un-cool to be positive and supportive in many of our home countries.

The CDRM do come over as having the country's best interests at heart and the divisions in society were becoming noticable. If they recover only the unpaid tax from the Thaksins, they will have achieved a lot.

Gotta say it, I wouldn't live anywhere else in the world.

Total US foreign policy shambles as ever. The USA needs Thai assistance more than we need 24 million dollars believe me.

Look at the terrorist and drug efforts of the Thais over the past year. They need Thailand to be anti Burma which they are more likely to be under the new regime. The CDRM do not cosy up to the Burmese in order to sell them telecomunnications.

In the meantime, the retard Bush is critising Burma for being the SECOND largest opium supplier in the world!!!! Thats second behind Afganistan that is controlled by who!!!! Answers on a post card to Condi Rice.

BTW why do the yanks fight their drugs problem in Cental America, Afghanistan, Burma, Thailand and Laos. Can they not control their own borders or population? Of course they cannot, yet they seem to think they can control the populations of numerous other countries round the world.

How about a war on drugs in your own country! Once you are all living the clean life in the states, the evil drug barrons will nave nobody to sell to.

Good luck to the CDRM, the corrupt in Thailand are at least being given pause for thought. Hope it lasts.

From the content of this thread one might get the impression that Thaksin and the TRT henchmen were the first to be involved in corruption.Actually Thaksin's sin was not so much corruption but altering the playing field to suit his business interests.Although there is a hanging mob on this forum,the unvarnished truth is that Thaksin was a genuinely skilled businessman, not just a pig at the trough.Anyway any long term observer of the Thai business/political scene knows the problem can be found in every quarter, and I mean EVERY quarter.So I have some doubts whether any investigation now will be vigorously pursued, unless of course its just going to be a political witch hunt.

yes! everyone here talks like thaksin invented corruption in thailand. what is with you people?

i said it before and i will say it again: thaksin wasn't ousted because he was any more or less "corrupt" than anyone else that has held that office in the history of this country; that is a load of crap from the powers-that-be and a convenient excuse to oust him and emasculate his election-winning party.

he was ousted for 2 reasons: 1) he out-smarted and out-politicked a lot of powerful people who don't like to lose, and 2) his reaching out to the poor masses upcountry simulataneously made him a democratic success (which certain people here obviously can't live with although they pay such great lip-service to the concept of "restoring democracy") and alienated the outnumbered upper- and middle-classes.

don't hate the player; hate the game.

Well said!

We have discussed this many times over the past few years on other threads.

The balance of power has been moving towards the poorer people of this country, though very slowly and not very far. Much of the middle classes make their money off the backs of the people of the North and North East and many in this country want them back where they belong ie. producing rice at 10baht per kilo for a series of middle men to mark up to around 300 baht per kilo at point of sale.

Add to this, the amount of farang husbands maintaining and supporting wives and families in this region and you have a reason for the recent visa regulation changes. Basically to the folk on the Visa thread, we have given our money to the wrong class of person.

However, Thaksin whilst not inventing corruption, was totally out of order with many of his schemes and scams and I hate the guy as he let down the people of Thailand that really needed him.

He had the chance to really be somebody, but he chose headlong greed instead.

(quote)

Massive complexes going in up at Talang as well. very badly built, thrown together with sub standard fixtures and fittings, aimed mainly at the Thai market. Thalang is also a Thai village area and we can wait and see if the average foreigner thinks its for them.

Tornado! You are too picky by far.

Horses for courses! My point was that there is land available, and houses for sale across the board. My advice was also valid. If you go and look for it yourself, its better and cheaper than being led by the nose by some agent skimming off 6%.

My point is that at any given time, any foreigner can come here and choose from a shed load of developments at all price ranges, all of them cheaper than Western Europe.

As for Thalang being too Thai for the "average foreigner" I wound say the

'average foreign buyer" lives here because it is Thai! Most of us have been here for years and can work things out for ourselves.

Lots of the new buyer, investors and speculators are scared shitless to get off the well worn farang areas, thus, sky high prices here and rock bottom for those of us that love living with Thais, living in Thai areas, having Thai kids, learning Thai, eating Thai, shopping on the markets etc. Screw anybody that is just interested in "investment potential" they are only driving the price up.

IMHO there are too many miserable faced westerners coming these days, building massive walls round their properties, installing expensive alarm systems (this says loud and clear "I do not trust you Thais") not engaging with the local population and pissing off their Thai neighbours by complaining about Thailand and writing all those "why oh why don't the Thais....." letters.

Nice try Tornado. Keep talking it up and try not to get too steamed up about it as well, we all have opinions and this is mine.

I am a keen cyclist and clock up hundreds of KM every week on and off the Island. Get out of your office and car a bit more if you want to know whats going on here.

Just seen 350 rai being auctioned off, and here are four full pages of houses for sale.

http://phuketgazette.net/classifieds/phuke...f=2006929151115

Also try a search on Google, theres thousands of adds. Lot of land was bought up by speculators and they are struggling to shift any of it.

Some of these have been on for over a year. A lot of these adds are for multiple houses on developments and there are massive plots of land.

Try Chao Fah Road as well. There are hundreds of properties for sale at Land and house, Middle Road, Phuket Villa etc. etc., Massive complexes going in up at Talang as well.

Hundreds of plots for sale and when you ring about one, you are always offered more choices as a lot of the adds are from agents and discounts are always offered.

Could come back to bite them in the arse.

Just Uncle Sam demonstrating that they have learned exactly nothing from all their foreign affairs policies of the last 100 years. Even the most naive backpaker has read about "face" in Thailand and know that Thais cannot be pushed around by anybody. Espescially a pigmy (intelectually and physically) president like Bush.

Is this the same withdrawing of aid to military regimes that is being applies to Musharaf in Pakistan? Didn't think so.

Sure China will be looking to fill the void.

Fight back, give the finger to KFC, Mc Junk Food and the like. I remember the yanks organising a campaign against the french

having just returned from a trip to phuket and samui , although i cannot dispute that there may be buyers pecking around , there are also hundreds of unsold properties , dozens of projects seemingly abandoned half way through building and the usual scene of bomb site moo baans with more builders than residents.

its a very strange market indeed

This is the case. The positive posts are just agents talking the market up. The smart money in Phuket is going into the SCB for 4% interest. Thats how good the market here is!

There are thousands of empty plots, and hundreds of areas cleared for development that are just stood empty, cleared of trees but no action. Land is not limited here, it is readily available everywhere. You need to go and look for it yourself and don't listen to some fat loudmouthed falang developer. Rent a bike and tour the Island, save yourself a fortune.

Two sales in one week!! I think its the "dead cat bounce" we used to hear of in politics. Its its also impossible that two sales would go from initial visit to completion of sale in one week.

These are either completions from previous months or offers not yet completed, in which case they are not sales.

Keep up the bullshit boys, somebody somewhere is daft enough to believe you. Just look at all the bars that sell here.

Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunan. Nice idea that, she did certainly come across as honest.

Noose seems to be tightening. Thaksin really in the shit and only the idiot Condoleza Rice batting for him these days. Great show of ignorance again by the White House.

Interesting times ahead and I think the next government will have to be straight(er) as they will have the coup in recent memory to focus the mind.