Steph1012

I don't read all the posts here but I'm just wondering if those who say prices ahve dropped could give some actual price changes for actual properties? That would be interesting.

Chownah

Well Mr Farmer. Being a property owner (G/F Land me house) for over 7 years now, I pay great attention to house prices and check out a lot of the property being sold over here. I'm not sad enough to trawl the old copies of the post and compare prices, but its a big community here and we all talk a lot about this subject.

All the developers on the Island are waiving or halving their sign up fee. Ask any of the developers that have recently set up in Central, Big C and Tesco this past month. Never seen so many of em, they are every where now.

Also, my house valuation dropped of 1 million baht between me applying for a loan in May, and re-applying for it when I came back from Germany last month. Thats 7 mill now down from 8 in May, same company, no vested interest, no sale intended (just security for the loan)

Last time we had this thread in October there were 769 property adds in the phuket gazette there are now 893 an Increase of 124 or over 15%. you really think this would be happening in a rising market?

Theres an air of desperation about the place on the sellers side.

It would be f*(^**g incredible if any of you lot could name one unsold property where the price has been raised recently or where a seller has pulled out of a sale as the property value has risen and he wants to put it on at a higher price. This is a common practice when house prices are rising.

Some of these comments are why I no longer spend much time on Thaivisa.com - I just get so bored reading through stupid comments from people who sprout that they know things when its obvious to anyone that they know the best part of nothing.

Simple facts are that Pattaya is continuing to grow at a very fast rate and its continuing to attract more high net worth people than ever before. The growth is taking place all over the city - condo's ARE being sold to owner occupiers with purchase prices between 3-20,000,000 baht. Houses have been sold with values way over 12,000,000 baht etc etc. From what I can see, there is a very little in the way of 'corrections' taking place - if the property was crap - it will still not sell, as it has not sold for the last 5 years of the 'boom'. I have seen 'speculative' developers getting burnt as they are either under resourced, under skilled or a combination of both and for the most part these guys are going to decide the 'legal' structure of a developer is not for them and probably cut their losses and do something else like open a bar or whatever is the next in 'fad' of an idea.

But if you look at foreigners who have developed sound business plans, ideas and have adequate funding, they continue to do VERY well in Pattaya. I can think of numerous housing estates that are delivering totally high end products and they are completely full (in particular one that rents all the properties to the high end expats that Suiging was talking about) and these places are relatively very expensive to the market norm. How are they achieving this - probably no different to anywhere else, they have an excellent product, its very well maintained and the service delivery works. Its the same with premium grade condo's - they are all continuing to sell - that is the reality of the marketplace these days - forget Soi Bukhow and all the 49baht beer drinkers - they have never been shaping how this city develops - they are just tolerated. If you cant see that, then you need to wake up and move on. Just last week I was looking at another website where some guy was boasting about his 69 baht full English Breakfast on Soi bukhow - good luck to him as he was saying how his volume has doubled in as many weeks - but the reality is if the only thing you can sell on is price, you really need to go back to business school as this place is unlikely to be around in 12-18 months. I guess thats why so many people fail in business in this country as they have no understanding of actually operating a real business and making money. He is going to be stuck in the Crazy Dave situation that he basically can NEVER lift his prices, as all his customers will go - a fact that I think will hit home when he realises that 69b for a full English breakfast is totally uneconomic yet all he is probably thinking is that the component ingrediants add up to say 49b so selling at 69b = 20 baht profit on everyone sold. If his breakfast is so good, why is he not selling it for 120 baht which is the average market price in the area???? Begs the question how good are his business skills.

And to the original poster, if you can pick up a house for about 6,000,000 baht down from 12,000,000 seriously ask yourself why its being sold at 6,000,000 baht.

Digger is just on here talking the market up in a bid to stop it imploding.

Most of the completions of sales now were initiated before all the visa, coup, strong baht effects. The money is drying up but will take a while to be felt in the pocket.

You should go back to business school as well. If you can attract people to your restaurant with a 69baht breakfast and double the numbers, you have customers on your premises to whom you could sell other items, tours, diving, visa runs, beers, morning coffees. If nothing else you have expanded your customer base and very probably made some friends along the way. Just one of these new friends could lead to a whole new opportunity, as they often do. We have little invested here individually and will not be hurt too hard by any changes in laws.

In contrast to fat failing developers who everybody hates and will be glad to see the back of when their "Consultants" workpermits are cancelled next time round. They are the ones that have blatently cheated the system, from fraudulent work permit descriptions, dodgy company/land ownership companies, encroachment, environmental pollution, inflated building costs and corruption.

We have had three major developments raided this week in Phuket alone. The powers that be in Bangkok are now using Google Earth type software from the safety of their desks (immune from attmepts to pay them off) to identify who is building or has built on illegal land, too high up etc. This next year or so its going to be squeal piggy developer squeal.

We get people like Digger on all the time. There have been at least three threads blatently from developers bullshitting the market up. All IMHO of course!

Realistically, what else can they do with squatters? Ask police to evict them?

Legally it can draw for years, while someone has invested money and the rent has to be paid.

Third world problems - third world solutions.

I would think it preferable for the police to evict the shopowners in an orderly fashion rather than having an influential person hire 100 off-duty policemen to act as thugs. And I believe the tenants were paying rent and were in the midst of legal proceedings to clarify the legal status of the leases relative to the new owners of the property who wish to redevelop the property.

One does not need to travel to the third world to find property owners who will do just about anything to break a lease in order to redevelop the property. It is a time honored tradition. Those who control the land have often been even more ruthless than those who control the means of production.

No no no. how long have you been here?

Nobody goes quietly believe me. When Thias have something inflicted on them that they don't like, they organise a riot and a mob to protect their interests. This not being the case, the landlord would not have needed 100 plus heavies to evict them.

We get it all the time here. Espescially taxi drivers, tour operators, tuk tuk drivers, beach chair operators. They blokade the police and government offices or block main roads until they cave in... and they do cave in every time here.

The Police are a big part of the problem as well. They lease the footpath outside our shop to a chicken stall! and they (Police) hacked into our power supply IN UNIFORM UP A LADDER IN BROAD DAYLIGHT WITHOUT TURNING HE SUPPLY OFF!! for the stall holder.

Got to laugh, as can't do anything about it. It's their country the chicken is good and they deliver!!

It's 2nd and 3rd generation chinese afraid that another group of 'outsiders' is gonna come in and give them competition for something they worked so hard to win for themselves all those years ago.

Need no more Womble.

That is it.

You should see this for what it is.

It's a major retailer curtailing their investment in Thailand.

The Thais shouldn't forget that they need major retailers like Tesco, Makro, Walmart et al to sell their Thai Produce around the world.

If you look at Tesco Phuket you will see that it was built out of town. Now, an entire town has sprung up round it. It's called Billion Plaza.

So far from them driving off local traders, they have actually encouraged a few hundred local retailers to come and set up shop on a previously derelict sitewith al the building and shopfitting expense that has incurred. Much better than the old leaking shops with 30 year old stock that infest Phuket town centre.

Another problem from the Education system is the non-failure of non performers. There is no incentive for most Thai Sudents to do any work as the qualification is a formality (bit like TEFL!) and many of them (not all) respond by doind nothing.

In semi-skilled work, there are plenty of exam quilifications around but few people up to scratch. The application of the skills in the real world cannot take place as most of the qualifications are sham.

On the wages front, there is a prevalent feeling that when wages are rock bottom, its better to do nothing and have just a bit less than what you could earn in a factory. Many of these people are used to being poor, and can stick it out if you are going to offer them 150baht a day jobs.

Early next year there will be the same shock horror regarding lack of English Teachers and how a lack of English skills is affecting the Tourism sector. Many of our students are walking out with Intermediate English certificates but only early learner standard English. Mind you the Principal, the Kids and the proud parents look happy on awards day.

Tony made a good point, there is good money to had by doing nothing in particular if you look the part.

The cynical amongst us may take the "sufficiency economy" to be applicable mainly to the poor.

IE you get on with your lot so long as you just have enough to be able to work and produce things and farm the land.

We will protect our riches but not seek to increase them dramatically. At least not as openly as before.

We remain rich and you remain in your place and forget any ideas of becoming a threat to us (rich people) by getting educated and political.

Its face with the rich Thais, they don't care about the economy so long as they are richer than the poor. We've had this before, take your Issan girlfriend round Bangkok to buy a new car and the middle classes hate it, sulk and would rather not sell the car than deal with somebody darker than them.

Obviously you are the cynical one. The king is the one that stressed the "sufficiency economy" and I do believe he was referring mainly to the poor and not the entire kingdom. Fortress Thailand was not what he intended. My wife is from a hilltribe village and here is what happened after the million baht per village fund was started.

1. Many have a new motorbike when an old one or walking was good enough before. This means air and noise pollution where there was little before. Money must be spent on gasoline which would be better off saved for the farm. Riding instead of walking decreases the amount of exercise one gets.

2. The other major purchase was a refrigerator. The electricity shuts off so frequently that the frig is useless and now sits unplugged.

3. Furniture was purchased and not used. I see homes with tables and chairs but every one sits on the floor.

4. Cell phones with no cell service in the village. They have to drive 10 kilo away to the top of the Doi to get service when they have a pay phone in the middle of the village.

These are just a few of the examples where the poor are going into debt to buy things they really don't need or even use. I believe that the self sufficiency was meant to stop the useless spending and the use of imports by people that can not afford it. In the past 90% of what was used by the villagers was also produced in that village.

A good reply here and I have witnessed some of the above myself. My wifes families phones only work when they go into Khon Kean shopping!! They still have to have em.

A few points though. The aspirations of people have been awoken, wants are becoming needs whether practical or not. People are voting with their feet when they buy these things and whilst rampant consumerism as we have in the West is not a good thing, people do aspire to more than having sufficient food and shelter. We would all still be living in caves in Africa without this desire for betterment.

Many Hill Tribe people in particular are leaving that way of life behind, and where they stay, are pursuing the tourist dollar with their fine handicrafts (and they are fine), visitor centres and photo opportunities. Sufficiency for them would be to produce enough to get by in life. What would happen is that other people (the middle classes) would trade these goods as they often do now (bussing tourists in), make massive profits on them and maintain their very comfortable lifestyle.

Sufficiency for them is the status quo and I don't see any of them parting with a single satang in a downward charitable manner or moving towards a state of self sufficiency. For them, this could be achieved more easily than for the poorest people, in fact it could be achieved over night!

I maintain that the ruling and middle classes want to protect their status and the poor must be kept poor in order to do this.

A point I often make is that many poor people have leap frogged the middle class by marrying westerners such as you and me. This really pisses off the Chinese Thais who run virtually everything here as their pool of poor labourers are starting do demand basic rights... geting paid for working for one.

As a leader of revolution is muslim, than most likely all things will happen for sure. ban on booz, girls, and other considered indecent things.

I think its cool

All opinions welcome on Thai Visa.

Heres the one from those fun loving Muslims.

You forgot the ban on music, TV, dancing, women drivers, sport and American expressions like "I think it's cool" Better chop your tongue out for that one mate.

Such fun! how time must fly in the Muslim world. Wait till the oil runs out though, then its back to the stoneage for the lot of em.

Bit high and mighty of you there HenryB.

You must have some stake here to be looking at this thread. You one of these sad gits who go there for holidays etc. then slag it off when you leave.

Goodbye

I am sorry the cream of English and America society come to invest in Pattaya.

You are poor soul with a pee brain.

Well its refreshing to note that you are obviously not an English teacher.

Love to hear you expressing this opinion round Pattaya.

Thats it on Reuters!!

One thing Thailand has always done well, is corporate events. Shame its the one thing they don't want to do.

Beer, girls, music, fun. Thats what people want, and Thailand is the world leader, truly the Hub of Asia by a mile. One thing tourists do when they are drinking is loosen the purse strings, go mad, hit up the credit card and worry about it when they get back to their country.

For sure its going to cost em and its gonna cost em big.

Then old square head'll be back to save the day and we'll never get shot of him.

And add to that the increasing confusion over what exactly "sufficiency economy" means, and military officers sitting now on boards of state enterprises without having any background in business.

Does anybody have any clear idea how the economy is doing now in Thailand?

The cynical amongst us may take the "sufficiency economy" to be applicable mainly to the poor.

IE you get on with your lot so long as you just have enough to be able to work and produce things and farm the land.

We will protect our riches but not seek to increase them dramatically. At least not as openly as before.

We remain rich and you remain in your place and forget any ideas of becoming a threat to us (rich people) by getting educated and political.

Its face with the rich Thais, they don't care about the economy so long as they are richer than the poor. We've had this before, take your Issan girlfriend round Bangkok to buy a new car and the middle classes hate it, sulk and would rather not sell the car than deal with somebody darker than them.

Bit high and mighty of you there HenryB.

You must have some stake here to be looking at this thread. You one of these sad gits who go there for holidays etc. then slag it off when you leave.

Goodbye

12 mill for a flopshop...crazy ...more £/$ than sense

I remember when 1 mill.Bt for a half decent 3 bed Condo seemed expensive ....

maybe not too long before they are back to that level.

Maybe Farangs are learning buying in Thailand is buying nothing. You lost your money the day you brought it

I think and hope speculators and agents will take the hit. Most of us with houses are not worried if it doubles or halves overnight. It's the same house and its still home.

I enjoyed this post much better than the last property post which the Agents put up to try and talk the market up.

A lot of falangs have been scared off recently, this confidence will not come back quickly.

Well here we go again the Oh so honest concerned Thai Goverment srvants and all those lovely indignant Farangs jumping up and down defending assorted actions and defending and attacking on diverse fronts.

HEY SPARE A THOUGHT PLEASE FOR THE ABUSED BURMESE,LAO AND OTHER IMMIGRANT WORKERS HERE AND THE POOR UNEDUCATED PEASANTS WHO ARE ABUSED BY IN THE CASE OF THE UNEDUCATED THAIS THER OWN PEOPLE AND IN THE CASE OF THE IMMIGRANT WORKERS THEY ARE HUSTLED BY THE CORRUPT POLICE AND THE CORRUPT EMPLOYERS ANYONE OF US WILLING TO SPEAK UP FOR THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE ?

No we are all ensconced safely in our privilieged lifestyles why should we have a conscience?

The guy took a short cut it failed, the company ,well perhapd they were less than honest as perhaps was the guy who was caught.

My sympathy is for the ethic groups here who are reviled and abused by the so called master race of Thais.

Why then are you posturing on this site?

People like you and related NGO's try to impose stupid conditions on any debate these days with your ridiculous 1st year College Student Union Politically Correct outbursts.

Lovely as I sure you all are, when the big shock of the real world hits you personally and all its unfairness, you will have to deal with your own affairs and like many others, lose sight of the plight of others.

viewhigh.blogspot.com/2005_08_01_viewhigh_archive.html - 96k - Supplemental Result -

Go on here and impress other like minded lefties and leave us in peace.

Go to Burma and posture there. Its not Thailands role in the world to deal with these refugees, life is hard enough here thank you.

hope he knows what he is getting into down there

To have Islamic law, wouldn't you need an Islamic court?

Islamic police as well.....

Let em have it. Maybe when any fun that they have in their lives is clamped down on by old men in beards they will fight against the Islamists. Try a late night experimental contrast between Thai TV and Al Jazerra!!

It'll ensure an almost total tourist boycott of the area for all time... more for us.

Other than the main pigs that were pushed from the trough, the main priorities for the rest of the pigs, is to get their snouts back in as soon as possible i.e. switch party and distance themselves from TRT.

They couldn't influence many on the net anyway as most PC owners will be educated enough not to fall for this stunt.

I'm interested in the Tourists sales pitch! Were the TAT involved?

This past three months the pitch seams to have run as:

You're welcome so long as you spend your money (quickly as possible please), get out and stay out until you have a lot of money to spend again.

Please keep down the frivolity, dancing and drinking as your Western decadence leads our youths astray.

Come and enjoy the cold weather, smog and the chance to die in a forest fire.

I was talking to someone Sunday and the numbers he came up with were there are about 1 million people in Thailand who will be effected. I thought that was a bit high but perhaps he knows more than most based on his position. I think the fact there was no mention in the Thai publications of the laws, (perhaps now I don’t know). I think you can go on and on and list things like people who want to retire early but as yet are too young for the proper visa. I know people who have Thai wives and work in the middle east. They are back every 45 to 60 days or so for a few weeks. They will not be able to come back home.

Bottom line Thailand is in for a big reality check in the next several weeks. Wanting teachers with 4 year degrees???, well dig deeper in your wallet if you want that, like twice as deep as now. I said in a post in another thread I would wait 100 days to see what is going on. At least the Nation has put this beyond this forum and has just sampled the tip of the iceberg.

The last possible people to stay under the 90 day rule will leave at the end of January. They would be the ones that did a visa run the end of September and the first of 3 the end of October.

The key to changing this is to pass the burden to the Thais. They have influence and not us. That is until they notice just how much is contributed to the economy by the people they sent packing. Even Stickman made note of one building who canceled 10 million in renovations because 30% of the tenants were forced to leave under this. I m sure we will hear more and more from Thais who will take a hit in the coming days and weeks. The one question is how bad will the Thais let it get in the name of saving face before they act?

I have said in other threads about this reality check.

When this property starts coming empty, it will increase the supply side and drive the market down. Demand is falling off already as seen in the 50% decrease in business start ups last month. Nobody in their right mind is going to take a 1 year lease in this climate when prices are likely to fall, less still are looking at buying under any route, Company, G.F etc.

Whilst many are getting legal, lots are just leaving and prepared to live in other parts of Asia. Most of my circle of friends are battening down the hatches, not bringing more money into the country and contemplating getting out should the goal posts be moved again. Certainly I will not live here in my retirement.

Anybody fancy jumping through hoops and spending enless hours waiting around photo copiers whilst inefficient staff give you duff information hoping you will offer tea money etc.etc. when they are in their 70s and 80's?

Children's discipline must be in control especially during festivals

The Ministry of Culture will have a meeting with relevant agencies and operators in fostering proper values and consciousness in youths and teenagers.

Mrs. Ladda Thangsupachai, the Culture Monitoring Center head, said the Loy Krathong Festival must be carried out in an appropriate manner and in line with the traditions. However, many changes have occurred in the society, and they have affected the social values and lifestyles. These factors have greatly influenced the Thai culture. Moreover, she said traditional festivals are not being organized for the sake of culture, but they are being held for leisure and entertainment purposes. However, she indicated that these intentions are not unconstructive, but limitations must be set. For instance, teenagers now tend to intake alcoholic beverages and fight when they are drunk. A number of young people are also dressing inappropriately. However, all involved institutes are ready to handle these problems so that the Thai culture will regain its reputation.

Mrs. Ladda also mentioned that parents and guardians must take good care of their children by awakening their consciousness, persuading them to join useful activities, and preventing them from getting involved with the negative ones. She said these measures would help improve the next generations of Thailand, and they will lead to a better nation as a whole.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 06 November 2006

Tried to write something but words fail me!

Really

Same old stories, rural folks always bring cheated by crook employment agency, this country folks never learns their lesson and still think foreign countries provide them good prospect and salaries.

I agree Thaising.

The real shame of Thailand is how the poor are kept poor, deceived and exploited.

Its only a small percentage who are bad here, but boy are they bad and boy are they rich as well. And not planning on letting anybody else have any.

I need to find a thai typing tutor if anybody knows of a good one. something like Mavis Beacon etc. that has themed lessons, games etc.

Found a free one but it barely functionable. Saw one advertised but can't find it in any shops.

Teenagers warned to avoid risks from sexual relationship during Loy Krathong festival

The Provincial Offcial of the Ministry of Social Development and Human Security of Kamphang Phet warns adolescents of the risks from sexual relationship during Loy Krathong Festival

apparently during any other time of the year, it's ok...

Mr. Somkid Somsi, the ministry’s provincial official, revealed that his office had studied a research about adolescents’ sexual behaviors during Loy Krathong Festival. The research shows that an increasing number of adolescents have sexual intercourse during the festival. Last year, the average age of people with that behaviour was lower than the previous year. The most susceptible group consisted of high-school students and vocational students. Besides, locations where most sexual behaviors took place were dormitories, rented houses, hotels, and unexpected places like dark corners in public parks.

Information collected from this research was used to outline measures preventing premature sex of young people. Most of the people sampled in this survey went out with their friends, partners, and other people outside their families. Alcoholic drinks were also found to be the main cause leading to sexual behaviors during the festival.

Mr Somkid asked parents and operators of rented residence to watch teenagers’ behaviors closely during the festival.

Is videotaping their "engaging activities" suggested?

- TNNBPRD

The mind boggles. who did they ask? can they be believed? can they verify its not just a bunch of lads bragging?

Wonder if they also researched all the thiefs who hang off the canal bridges in BKK taking money out of the krathongs whilst the police keep guard! All those wishes and hard work destoyed by greed.

Lucky i read this topic as i was about to contact UBC about getting set up for a gold package but i think i will sit tight for a while and see what happens...its looking like the alternatives to UBC are worth taking a look at.

Don't do it.

Cable is only 300 baht a month and has the lot!!

I remember UBC footy coverage where they missed the first few games and didn't have English commentary. Massive queue to cancel subscriptions when i went down to cancel mine. Cable was installed next day had it all on in english.

STOP COMPLAINING AND HIT EM WHERE IT HURTS. Get it turned off and they leave you a free packege on hoping you will change your mind.

PS loved the posts comparing Thai mainstream tv to the Marks Brothers and pointing out the massive amount of cross dressing going on. Wheres the Ministry for Culture in the midst of all this? Or is cross dressing a traditional part of Thai culture?

I bet more Thai boys cross dress or become Katoey because of this, than girls "Cayote dance" because of Western Influence. All the Thias I have ever known, watch Thai movies (ghosts, Familys slapping and screaming at each other for 2 hours at a time) game shows and gossip shows.

Before you post, it is part of their culture

Surprised they kicked up a fuss about closed door dormitories, after all there are no falangs involved here.

Young Thais having sex with young Thias! who to blame, who to blame, what to crackdown on?

Had all this last year, and the year before, and the year before!!

With all the face saving that goes on here, the The Governments have been blind to the fact that much of the investment is "lifestyle" investment as my friend puts it.

Many of us come here, open small businesses and pump money into them from our savings and real jobs offshore. In my case, I put my already taxed earnings (from a Malaysin company) through my shop sales so my books balance and the wages and taxes get paid again, and my "O" visa is safe for another year. but for how long?

There is also the business community in Bangkok some (not all) happy to put up with the shit because life in Thailand is still sweet, fun and lively.

Put restrictions on one side of the scales and take the fun out of Thaialnd with crackdowns, midnight closings, peeing in jars, no dancing, no street markets and it will make a difference. Slowely, but it will make a difference. My kids tell me their English teacher left last week and the Principal asked the expats kids if any of their parents wanted to teach!

The talk of the town these days is how to get out and where to live in future years. More so now than finding ways to get legal.

I'm only 50, have lived here 10 years and visited for 10 before that. I really don't want to put up with this when I am retired and many others are of the same mind. I see the poor retirees every time I go into Immigration, looking worried, perplexed, bewilded and angry. The expat community (legal and Tourist) have almost totally shut up shop as regards bringing in any more money into the country.

They will obvisouly blame something or somebody else though... TIT