schlemmi

15 minutes ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

My name is not in the blue book I think,but I have a yellow book and pink id

Look into the yellow one to obtain your status.

27 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

No, 'Head of Household' (Jiao Baan) in the house book, is usually the person responsible for taking care of the book and registering others living at that registered address, with the local Amphur under the Civil Registration Act. The house book is not proof of ownership.

A Thai can only be registered in one house book, regardless of how many properties they may own.

 

Under section 38 of the Immigration Act, the persons responsible to file a TM30 are;

Note, not the Head of Household as defined under the Civil Registration Act.

 

Under section 4 of the Immigration Act, the House Master is defined as;

Your confusing 'Head of Household' as defined under one Act, with 'House Master' as defined by another Act. 

No, iam not confusing it.

Under Art.38, the first word is เจ้าบ้าน and u der art.4 the given definition of เจ้าบ้าน is the same as in the civil registration act. The term เจ้าบ่าน is a fixed often used term in the thai law.

But there is often a missunderstanding of the word เจ้าบ้าน thay is only the boss in the house  หีวหน้าในบ้าน and the term เจ้าของบ้าน what is the owner of the house. This is the person which could sell the house make contracts belonging the house.

1 minute ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

Do you mean I should register myself even I'm not the owner of the house?

If you name is in the housebook and your status is  เจ้าบ้าน then you are in duty to report according to article 38.

Please take a look to the housebook and find the page with the entry สถานถาพ:เจ้าบ้าน.

This indicates the housemaster in the sense of law.

The entry สถานภาพ: ผู้อาศัย  indicates all other people in the house.

15 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

If the wife is registering to use the online system as owner/housemaster, nobody is asking for a rental agreement. When you register its so you can report foriegners who may stay in the future, nobody asks if a foriegner is currently staying and in what capacity.

But they could fine the เจ้าบ้าน for not reporting. No matter if you have a contract or not. Formally the เจ้าบ้าน is the boss. 

23 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Sounds like Sriracha has had their head in a bucket of KFC chicken nuggets for to long.

Why did they fine her, if in their words;

Complete contradiction of statement and action.

 

Since April the online TM30 site comes in a choice of Thai or English language.

It allows a choice of either owner, house master or possessor to register, regardless of nationality.

 

 

Under section 4 of the Immigration Act you are effectively the house master.

As a renter, you would be a tenant, as a non renter you are the possessor.

 

Many expats have already successfully registered to file the TM30 online.

My wife is the owner but I also possess occupancy of the house.

I registered myself, my passport, my Tabien Baan, my Thai ID card and received a user ID and password.

 

If there is a housebook existing than the person who is stated as เจ้าเบ้าน is the person who has to act according article 38 of the immigration act. It does no matter if there is a dummy rental contract between him and his wife.

35 minutes ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

1 hour ago, schlemmi said:

 

Well immigration Sriracha has a different view of things.They charged my wife already 1600bt because she didn't notify them we are back from a trip to Krabi.

Did your wife get a receipt for this payment?

Did your wife gegisterd you according Art.38 by using the TM30 form before you made the trip to krabi?

Does your wife has the receipt slip of this  TM30 form from the former registration process and showed to the officer?

As  far as i studied the law concerning art.38 of the immigration act and all the law around it, there is no need to re-register. As long you not really move out and move in at a later time you still live there. It dosent matter if you travel around and where you travel to. Please also take a look to the immigration webpage of samutrprakarn. Directly on the first page there is a FAQ publisched. "Q: Does my Thai wife ...".

I studied the concerning laws and never found a point that forces the housemaster to report again in the case a foreinger who was already reported has to be reportet again if he returns to his usual home. Please, if there is anyone can point me to the law behind this, do it.

On 7/14/2019 at 7:04 AM, rooster59 said:

 

If you’re an expat living permanently in Thailand and travel to other places within the country – any other address other than your usual home address – you need to inform immigration once you’ve returned.

Where exactly is this written in the actual law?

Even on the risk that i bother the members
with the origial content of the actual Thai law i will start another attempt to clarify it by separating the original of text of art.38
in small functional pices and translate them with my bad english as good as possible.

At first the original text in its complete
appearance:

                    มาตรา ๓๘  เจ้าบ้าน  เจ้าของหรือผู้ครอบครองเคหสถาน  หรือผู้จัดการโรงแรมซึ่งรับ
คนต่างด้าววึ่งได้รับอนุญาตให้อยู่ใน้ราชอาณาจักรเป็นการชั่วคราวเข้าพักอาศัย  จะต้องแจ้งต่อ
พนักงานเจ้าหน้าที่ ณ ที่ทำการตรวจคนเข้าเมืองซึ่งตั้งอยู่ในท้องที่ที่บ้าน  เคหสถาน  หรือโรงแรมนัน
ตั้งอยู่ภายในยี่สิบสี่ชั่วโมงนับแต่เวลาที่คนต่างด้าวเข้าพักอาศัย  ถ้าท้องที่ใดไม่มีที่ทำการตรวจคนเข้า
เมืองตั้งอยู่ให้แจ้งต่อเจ้าพนักงานตำรวจ ณ สถานีตำรวจท้องที่นั้น
           ในกรณีที่บ้าน  เคหสถาน  หรือโรงแรมที่คนต่างด้าวพักอาศัยตามวรรคหนึ่งตั้งอยู่
ในเขตท้องที่กรุงเทพมหานคร  ให้แจ้งต่อพนักงานเจ้าหน้าที่ ณ กองตรวจคนเข้าเมือง
      การแจ้งตามวรรคหนึ่งและวรรคสองให้เป็นไปตามระเบียบที่อธิบดีกำหนด


Separated into functional textnodes trans-scriptet
in english (but based on my german language background)
and translated to english. The words in () are not literally
in the thai text. I added them to build an as good as possible
englishsentence:

มาตรา ๓๘
Matra saamsippaed
Articlee 38

เจ้าบ้าน  เจ้าของ หรือ ผู้ครอบครอง เคหสถาน  หรือ ผู้จัดการ โรงแรม ซึ่ง รับ
TschauBaan TschauKong Rue PuuKroobKroong KehaSataan Rue PuuDshadGaan ROOngRaem Sueng Rap
(The) Housemaster owner or posessor (of the) livingplace or (the) Manager (of the) hotel which receives

คนต่างด้าว ซึ่ง ได้รับอนุญาต ให้ อยู่ใน้ราชอาณาจักร เป็นการชั่วคราว เข้าพักอาศัย  จะต้องแจ้งต่อ
KonTaangDao Sueng DaiRapAnujaat Hai YouNaiRatscha-aanatschag PenGaanTschuaKraow KauPagAssai DschaTongTschaengTow
(a) foreigner who received permission to be in (the) kingdom temporary enteres (for) living has (to) report to

พนักงานเจ้าหน้าที่ ณ ที่ทำการตรวจคนเข้าเมือง ซึ่ง ตั้งอยู่ใน ท้องที่ ที่ บ้าน  เคหสถาน  หรือ โรงแรม นัน
PanaggaanDschauNatee Na TeeTamGaanTruadKonKauMueang Sueng TangYouNai TongTii Tee Baan KeHaSataan Rue ROOngRaem Nan
The immigration officer at (the) immigrationoffice that (is) installed (at the) local place where (the) house livingplace or hotel it belongs too

ตั้งอยู่ ภายใน ยี่สิบสี่ ชั่วโมง นับแต่ เวลา ที่ คนต่างด้าว เข้าพักอาศัย  ถ้า ท้องที่ใด ไม่มี ที่ทำการตรวจคนเข้าเมือง
TangYou PaiNai YiesipSie TschuamOOng NabTae Waela Tee KonTangDao KauPagAssai Taa TongTeeDai MaiMee TeeTamgaanKonKauMueang
(is) installed (in a) timeframe (of) 24 hours counted since (the) foreinger enters to live. If (the) local area not have a immigrationoffice
 
ตั้งอยู่ ให้ แจ้ง ต่อ เจ้าพนักงานตำรวจ ณ สถานีตำรวจ ท้องที่ นั้น
TangYou Hai Dsaeng Tow DschauPanaganTamRuad Na SataneeTamruad TongTee Nan
(has) installed let report to the policeofficer at the policeoffice (of) this local area 

           ในกรณี ที่ บ้าน  เคหสถาน  หรือ โรงแรม ที่ คนต่างด้าว พักอาศัย ตาม วรรคหนึ่ง ตั้งอยู่
      NaiGolonie Tee Baan KeHaSataan Rue ROOngRaem Tee KonTaangDaoPagAssai Taam WackNueng TangYou
      In the case the house (the) livingplace or (the) hotel where (the) foreigner lives according textparagraph 1 (is) installed

ใน เขต ท้องที่ กรุงเทพมหานคร  ให้ แจ้ง ต่อ พนักงานเจ้าหน้าที่ ณ กองตรวจคนเข้าเมือง
Nai Kaet TongTee GrungtaepMahaNakon Hai Dschaeng Tow PanaggaanDschauNatee Na GongTruadKonKauMueaqng
in (the) local area of Bangkok let (the hosemaster etc..) report to the officer at the immigration division.

            การแจ้ง ตาม วรรคหนึ่ง และ วรรคสอง ให้ เป็นไป ตาม ระเบียบ ที่ อธิบดี กำหนด
       GaanDschaeng Taam WackNueng lae WackSong Hai PenPai Taam Rabiab Tee Atibodee Gamnot
       The reporting according Textparagraph 1 and Textparagraph so far according to (the) rules released by the general director of the police.  



Compiled together and beautified: 

The Housemaster owner or posessor of the livingplace or the Manager of the hotel which receives
a foreigner for living, who received permission to be in the kingdom on temporary base, has to report to the immigration officer at the immigration office that is installed at the local place where the house livingplace or hotel
is installed, in a timeframe of 24 hours counted since the foreinger entered to live. If the local area not has a immigration office installed let the (Housemaster ...) report to the policeofficer at the police office of this local area.
At the area of Bangkok let (the housemaster etc..) report to the officer at the immigration division.

The term "Housemaster" เจ้าบ้าน is defined in มาตรา ๔ Article 4:
The Housemaster means the person who is the หัวหน้า (the boss in the house) who possesses the house in a status as owner or renter or any other status according to the "people registration act".


Who has to Report? The Housemaster has to report.

Who is the Housemaster? The person who is the boss in the house and has the right to decide what is going on in it


Who has to be reported? All foreigners with temporary permission to be in the kingdom and living in the house the housemaster is responsible for.

When has to be reported? Within 24 hours countet from the moment where the
concerned person starts living in the house.

Does Art. 38 says anything about how often has to be reported?
Every time when a foreinger starts living in the belonging house.


I appologize for the big, bad english and thai mixed text.
             

5 minutes ago, nrasmussen said:

That's my understanding too, but different immigration offices may have a different interpretation of this. I was once told, adamantly, that only the owner would be acceptable for doing the reporting.

In any case, without some form of cooperation from the owner (i.e., copies of house registration and ID card), it may be difficult for the tenant to file the report. That's why I always am up front with the requirements when talking to a potential landlord.

May be its due to a missuse of the terms owner and posessor. The owner is the person with the right to sell it and use it in any kind he wish to use it. The possessor is only the person holds it for eg. living in it due to the rights granted by a contract with the owner. The possessor in this case could not sell it but from the point of view of art.38 is the person in duty to report as he is the posessor. Here the rental contract would be sufficient to keep the owner of the house out of duty.

48 minutes ago, Issanman said:

There is a story about TM30s in todays newspaper.

The last line of the story:

"However, Pol Lt Gen Sompong stressed that the TM30 process will continue to be enforced in the future, despite the problems it is encountering."

As lonlong as he get replaced.

On 7/31/2019 at 2:57 PM, bslmh said:

This one from jomtien last year

This ticket is from the immigration chonburi where the office in jomtien belongs to.

It is concerning to the person ho is in duty to report according to art.38 of the immigration act. This is clearely stated in the text placed by the rubberstamp.

The only question here is:

Did the person in duty to repory really failed. The story behind is not clear.

The name on the report that is ananymized is the name of the person in duty to do the report or not.

Maybe you can write a bit more about the background or point us to the posts already done concerning this specific ticket.

17 hours ago, nrasmussen said:

Three or four years ago I wanted to rent a house, but when I told the owner that he would have to report that I stayed there to immigration, the answer was: "In that case I'm not renting to foreigners."

Fortunately not all landlords are like that, so subsequently I have successfully rented properties twice without any problems.

If you rent a hose, then you as the person already rented the house is the boss about what is ongoging in that house. The person who gives you the house to use it by your own is no longer resposoble for what is happened in it.  From the moment you signed the contract you are the boss in duty (หัวหน้า) hua naa of this home and its your duty to report according art.38. If you move in, after the contract is signed you not move in a home where the real owner is the boss. From now on you are the possessor.

On 7/31/2019 at 10:53 AM, holy cow cm said:

Assuming this person did a 90 day report and not 90 day border run.

No, not neccrssarily. The addrrss the foteigner by itself reported on the TM6 form. This form is the arrivel/departure caed you hand out at the border at the time you enter thailand. Thats enough data to check if there is a corresponding TM30 record to it. 

Just another example for incomplete and missleading information. The exemption to report at the local police according article 37(3)(4) of the immigration act is not only for tourist visa holders. Bussines visa and a lot of others are also exempted. But this is not published at this article. 

I refere to the article from Bangkok Post and im.igration published im post #72. Unfortunately the article not shoed up here.

7 minutes ago, wobalt said:

Makes it clear again: only report when you stay longer in the country for more than 90 days aka you are on an extension.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

But on tourist you never need to do a 90 day report because the maximum you can stay is 90 days. Than you have to leave the country. The 90 days is 60 days at the border if has visa and another 30 days as extension at immi. This extension can only be done once per entry due to visa. You never exceed the 9o days.

3 hours ago, ThLT said:

Apparently, today, according the Bangkok Post and Immigration Bureau, the TM30 isn't required for those on a Tourist Visa.(last in list, on the left):

 Please not mix tm30 and tm28.

TM30 is the form used to repot according section 38. It is the housemaster or hotel where the foreigner  stays. There is NO EXEMPTION for tourists.

TM28 is used by the foreinger itself to report according section 37. The exemption resides here. Only here.

19 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

How about Visa  Exempt?

The Section 37 stuff all sounds very oppressive. 

 Visa exempt is only possible for torist purposes. It counts as torist visa under section 37.

21 minutes ago, Scorpion364 said:

The following is based a little on educated guesswork:

A) A messenger will have gone to Immigration with all the passports

B) No. Another person.

C) Correct.

D) 800B. This needed to be paid before they could get their 90 days stamp. I do not know the process of how the money was paid. I guess the passports were returned to school unstamped, and the teachers in question had to cough up the 800B, before the passports were then returned to Immigration for the stamps.

E) I don't think it's something that needs questioning or evidencing. If my friend says it happened, it happened. I don't think it is reasonable to suspect anything else, because this IS actually the law.

About D) and E) i not asked for evidence because i not believe your and your friends. The reason is, i like to know if they have a ticket, what is stated on it. And you said already they are not their own housemasters. They are fined for a fail they are not responsible for. And additionaly the IO denied to process the 90 days report. That is perfect illegal. Right now i  sent out my letter to immigratiion 3 headquater to clarify those issues. The letter is in the tm30 petition thread. 

1 hour ago, Parsve said:

I have a feeling that one of the problems is that different IO:s do not coordinate the information provided via TM30. When, after living in another province for six months, I returned and asked if we should submit a TM30, I received the answer that it was not necessary because I was already registered at the address. And I am sure that I was registred at the second place as I delivered the TM 30 there by my self, since we had not submitted any TM 30 after comming back, I must have been registered at least at two addresses at the same time.

Iam absolutely shure that you are registered under all addresses ever reported on you. They not delete entries in the database nor overwrite them. The add entries. If you not forgot your address, just ask the immigration. They can give you a cplete history.

4 minutes ago, flynn said:

I have been in and out of the country many times , the first time I went to Jomtien to do my tm30 on return and I told them I would be in and out of the country, they said if I was returning to the same address I would not have to report again. 

I am verry  proud of them.

1 hour ago, schlemmi said:

If there is no housebook with a person as เจ้าบ้าน indicated and there is no rental contract or other evidence. The original thai text means: The person actually is in posession of the place wher the foeinger lives. This not have to be a real house, it could be a boat, a ship, a camp for workers and anything else where the foreinger could live.   A tent on a pice of land could be too. Here the posessor of the land where the tent is installed would be in duty.

But its in the definition what เคหะสถาน means. You refer to the menu ผู้ครอบครองเดหะสภาน.

Here is ผู้ครอบครอง the possessor (not necessarily the owner) and เคหะสภาน what i explained already. This is defined in one article near the top of this act.

15 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Here is the link

 

https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/

 

And here is a screen shot of the pull down menu for possessor to register. (the position pull down menu has different options depending on what is selected in the accommodation type field)

 

If there is no housebook with a person as เจ้าบ้าน indicated and there is no rental contract or other evidence. The original thai text means: The person actually is in posession of the place wher the foeinger lives. This not have to be a real house, it could be a boat, a ship, a camp for workers and anything else where the foreinger could live.   A tent on a pice of land could be too. Here the posessor of the land where the tent is installed would be in duty.

13 hours ago, Scorpion364 said:

 

A friend of mine works at a school in Nonthaburi where 12 teachers' passports went to Immi for 90 day reporting. 8 of them got rejected and the teachers fined, because they'd had weekends away and not filed TM30.

Please explain on detail. I like to know the following:

a) Did they go in person or used they someone to send the passports together with the tm47 90 days teport?

b) Are they their own housemasters and in duty to do the tm30 report or is another person the housemaster?

c) Do i understad right, they not get the receipt slip of the tm47 90 days report form?

d) How are they get fined and how much?  The person who transfered the passport paid or they get a ticket to pay?

e) Do they have any evidence about this case. Do they have whitness. Do they know the name of the IO?