drbeach

Good that you found a good job here, I wonder what industry you're in? Thailand doesn't seem like the type of place where employers are screaming out for talented foreigners. Most Thais think we're all English teachers. Seems to be a rare thing to find an expat employed in any other field. Just today a massage lady assumed that of me even though it's not true.

By the sounds of it you don't own any property back home, which would make a move there even more difficult. How about your parents? Will you be inheriting any property from them once they pass on? Normally that should be a way out for most of us, except those of you who are older than about 60, have no parents left and no assets of any kind back home.

I would recommend you stick it out here for now, as long as you can keep the job, but do put some money aside and plan for the possibility of returning home if you see that as an option or a necessity in the future. Real estate both in the UK and Australia is very expensive. I don't know how you live here, but it's common for families to experience a home downsizing and therefore a reduction in quality of living once they go back home. You might be living in a 4-bedroom house with garden here but may suddenly find yourself having to move into a 2-bedroom apartment back in Australia, at least until you earn enough to move somewhere bigger and better.

5 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Yes, at least since 2007 when I first looked at it. However old timers here will tell you it was easier before. Currently the investor and married categories make no sense since they are effectively same as working.

 

As for nationality, some countries do not allow dual nationality and being Thai is only advantage within Thailand, a handicap otherwise.

 

Reforming the law is one option yes but I'll be pushing daisies by the time it would be done (40 years give or take). Opening the PR would be quick.

Thai nationality is not a handicap for living in Thailand; quite the opposite. It's also an advantage for traveling around ASEAN - no visa required. For some countries like Russia, no visa required either. Also, for quick trips across the border a border pass is all that's needed and you can even cross at locals only borders. You can also own land and work any job you want.

Most countries (especially western countries) DO allow dual citizenship and I think if you intend to remain in Thailand permanently, even IF you needed to give up your other nationality, so what? Why would you need to retain a foreign nationality when you have no intention of moving back to that country? That mentality is pretty bizarre.

Of course if you don't intend to remain here forever, that's different.

PR doesn't offer you much - you still need a work permit and probably won't be given Thai prices at national parks, whereas with citizenship you will be. Also, you can't own land.

It could be that PR was easier to get 30 or 40 years ago, but times have changed since then. Also, I thought that foreign women marrying Thai men could still receive instant citizenship? Why is that not being talked about?

4 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Thais with money do travel a lot and mostly outside Thailand. Not a surprise at all.

Thais started traveling overseas about 6-8 years ago, before that it didn't matter where you arrived from, Thais were only ever a tiny minority of the passengers on any given flight. There are many Thais who now visit neighboring countries too. However, Thais are more likely to fly to Laos than drive, despite the relatively short distance. There are more Lao cars driving across the border than Thai ones heading in the other direction, which is strange considering that Thais are on average richer than Laotians and there are far more cars registered in Thailand than Lao. The same applies to the Malaysian, Cambodian and Burmese borders.

I still think Thais mostly travel within Thailand as opposed to outside of Thailand. However, Thais are now getting on the visit Japan bandwagon with about a million visiting every year. More and more are also visiting countries like Vietnam and also Bali. 10-15 years ago, the only Thais that traveled overseas were spouses of farang and a small number of rich elite. Even so, with the possible exception of some regional flights, I have never seen an international flight with more Thai than foreign passengers on it. Contrast this with Indian/Chinese flights where the vast majority of passengers are always citizens of those countries, irrespective of the route.

3 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Your post has the magic word in it. "Permanent". All of the TM problems would vanish if the PR route was opened again. As it seems to have been when the immigration act was done. Made sense then, would make sense now. But Thais bastardized the temporary stays to "long stay" and effectively closed the PR for married and investors by putting in the 3y work permit requirement. Remove that and it'd be golden again.

I'm confused. I thought PR has had a 3-year work permit requirement for many years.

Also, people are still being issued with PR. There were never many issued, not even years ago.

A better option is to go straight for citizenship, if married to a Thai. This wasn't an option years ago, is now though. 

In any case, PR doesn't solve this TM30 problem for most people as only small numbers would ever be eligible or desire it. A better solution is a complete reform of immigration law.

4 hours ago, Martyp said:

I’ve currently informed my landlady that I will be visiting the US in September. My plan is to email her when I arrive in Bangkok and send her a photo of my TM6. The point of informing her is to give her a heads up about my arrival date so she can be ready to file the TM30 within the 24 hour filing window. She has a life too and sometimes is busy or traveling. She is good about getting back to me when I email her but occasionally it takes a week when she is traveling. If she wasn’t going to be available on my return I would make arrangements to go and self file. My landlord wants to do the online filing. Just because it is the landlords responsibility to file the TM30 doesn’t mean they have to be ready and available to you 24 hours a day. I think my landlord owns and rents several condos but she doesn’t have any staff to assist her.

I've heard of this a lot. Didn't realize so many Thai landlords like to travel. Most Thais just stay in one place and rarely travel, must be something about landlords that causes them to want to travel so often.

Why not do the reporting yourself? Don't bother her with all this. It's not her fault this country has such ridiculous laws, which Thais seemingly don't make any effort towards changing, because Thais are not fundamentally people who are freedom minded - they prefer the "sabai sabai" everything will be fine approach, not realizing that, unless you protest and try to stop freedom grabbing governments it will eventually be too late. It's not just a Thai thing, it's probably an Asian thing. Which is why authoritarian governments have been able to take hold in practically every country throughout the region.

1 hour ago, wobalt said:

The whole 20 years old immigration law needs to be updated to the modern situation. The TM30 discussion makes that clearly visible.
My Thai wife for example lives in Germany and has permanent residency there., 20 years she has not visited Thailand. But due to the fact she still holds a Thai passport she would be considered as permanent resident when she returns for some weeks to her house.
Even she clearly doesn’t live there? Very weird!


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I agree although it is 40 years old, not merely 20! The law was made in 1979, it's 2019 now.

On 1/31/2019 at 10:28 AM, drtreelove said:

I think the heads up notes are appropriate for advising a newbie.  Of course you can get away with it, but in fact it is illegal.  You can jump the border and live for years, you can drive drunk without a license or insurance, you can get away with a lot of things, until something happens and you get busted and then you're screwed. I'm a calculated risk taker, but I don't advise anyone else to be. 

Nonsense. Again, this circulating conspiracy theory is becoming like an urban legend. It never seems to die.

You can work on your own property provided you're not selling anything, earning a wage or making money off something. As soon as you sell something, then you've got a problem unless you have a work permit.

On 1/30/2019 at 8:43 AM, passiflora said:

Depending if you are Thai or farang, don't forget a foreigner can not work especially as farmer

You can work on it yourself as long as it's for your own private consumption and you aren't selling anything. This annoying conspiracy theory among expats where foreigners can't do anything without it being considered "work" is something that never seems to go away. There's a difference between working on your own property for yourself and working there to sell something.

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

Don't go to Thailand more than once a year as a tourist - the message is very clear.

 

Airlines will need to start screening passports prior to boarding or just stop flying to Thailand

 

I know an airline is fined when a person doesn't meet entry requirements, I wonder if this kind of denial also results in a fine for the airline....

A lot of airlines have stopped flying here in recent years or reduced their flights. Some examples off the top of my head:

THAI Airways:

Suspended flights to/from Los Angeles and Johannesburg around 2015. Suspended all international flights to Australia from Phuket (including Perth, Sydney and Melbourne). Also suspended all international flights out of Chiang Mai (only recent one was Chiang Mai-Kunming).

Briefly stopped flying to Madrid and Moscow, then reinstated these flights. Reduced flight frequency to Zurich, Frankfurt, Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne.

Emirates:

Suspended flights on the route Sydney-Bangkok on 31 May 2019

British Airways:

Suspended flights on the route Sydney-Bangkok a few years ago

United Airlines:

Suspended all flights to Thailand back around 2015; no sign of them ever returning

And many more...

A bit strange to not want to marry the gf and try to stick it out on tourist visas here for a couple of years.

Better long-term planning on your part is warranted. I would either marry the gf and go down the marriage visa route (or multi non-O, which keeps you in the country long-term) or find another country to live in.

Eventually you'll no longer be allowed back into the country. It doesn't matter that you've only ever spent most of the past year in Thailand and not previously. To an I/O it looks like you've decided to move here, but on the wrong visa type. If you tried this in America, Australia or even Singapore, you would have been refused entry on your first re-entry. Thailand is increasingly going that way too.
 

However, if you need just a little more time, get another tourist visa, enter via a land border (a quieter one such as Nakorn Phanom might help), extend it one time but in the meantime spend those 3 months seriously figuring out a long-term plan.

For Non-O multi entry visas, Ho Chi Minh might make a better choice than Savannakhet. No throngs of people, just as easygoing, no appointment needed and Saigon is a much more action packed city to spend some time exploring. Also, for some people more practical to reach, given it's just a short flight away from Bangkok or Chiang Mai. Also Phuket now I believe. Savannakhet only has a 3-times weekly service to Bangkok via Pakse on Lao airlines, otherwise it's a long drive/bus ride or flight to a nearby domestic airport such as Nakorn Phanom, followed by a bus or taxi ride.

20 hours ago, Leaver said:

It's a well know fact that land boarders are more kind to visa runners, thus, these land boarders do see a fair share of westerners that can afford to fly, but chose a land boarder, because there is less chance of being denied entry.  However, I do agree the majority in the queue at these land boarders will be illegal workers from nearby countries. 

 

That said, an applicant is an applicant, no matter where they are from, and I can only see the queue at Savannaket getting longer as the new visa changes get closer to their anniversary date.  It's possible Savannaket may have to introduce an appointment system also.  

 

We are already seeing bigger numbers at these land boarders and consulates.

Some of these land borders are also quite hostile to citizens of certain countries.

Lao and particularly Cambodian land borders scrutinize every Vietnamese arrival. Happened to a friend of mine. New passport, no Thai entry stamps, not a regular visitor to Thailand at all. Lots of questions about his intentions but finally was allowed to pass. No questions at the Myanmar border, but not allowed to visit the Myanmar side on a day pass (like westerners and Thais are) must be a Myanmar visa or e-visa, even for a one day stay.

On the other hand, you have the Phu Nam Ron border with Myanmar that clearly has a relationship with certain visa agents because like clockwork every morning at 6am, van loads of Lao, Cambodian and Vietnamese "workers" who have only 14 or 30 day stamps get stamped back in, despite the fact they have neither work permits or visas enabling them to stay legally in Thailand. Given these nationalities qualify for laborer visas, I wonder why their employers don't apply for them? Could also be, because according to my Myanmar driver I used on one of my trips, they work in karaoke parlors and thus aren't eligible for visas as that is a "restricted occupation". I dunno, but it was curious.

57 minutes ago, amexpat said:

Do you prefer the banned pesticides that are definitely used here. 

There is definitely a greater awareness of organic food in Thailand, and a lot [more] available than in Vietnam. Definitely would trust Thai produced food over Vietnamese and that's not only because of agent orange. The latter have a similar mentality to the Chinese, try to get away with whatever they can to save money or increase profits even if it could potentially mean harming somebody. Thais on the whole, don't have this kind of mentality at all.

55 minutes ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

Rednecks/bogans are not the problem. The government is targeting expats and long-term stayers, who for the most part are law-abiding civilized people with money.

 

True. Having lived in Japan, Thais are refreshingly far more open-minded. In Japan 90% of landlords will not rent to a foreigner. There are establishments you cannot enter as a foreigner. The sex trade is pretty much reserved for Japanese men only, with few exceptions. The grand majority of Japanese women would not even consider marrying a foreigner. Korea is even worse and even taxi drivers might refuse to take a foreigner - happened to me a few times.

 

I'm not sure how Vietnamese view foreigners, but at least in my experience the places I felt most welcome by the local people (not the government) in Asia are Thailand and Philippines, and maybe Cambodia. Japan/Korea/Taiwan/etc the locals range from xenophobic to actively racist. Ohh, when I say locals I mean normal people in Bangkok - not that Isaan girl you picked up at a bar, lol.

I agree with your first paragraph in general, although I disagree with the conspiracy theory floating around in expat circles that the government here is trying to get rid of all foreigners, especially westerners. They are instead trying to get rid of what the British call "riff-raff" by removing long-staying foreigners on the wrong visas (such as tourist visas) and upping the anti for retirement visas to ensure only relatively high-net worth individuals can remain. So they are "cleaning up" the country not to get rid of foreigners per se, but less desirable foreigners. There's a difference. They may not be going about it in the right way, but in their mind they think they are doing the right thing though I doubt it's based on xenophobia as such, otherwise I would have felt it by now, but I don't.

In all my dealings with Thai immigration it has actually been relatively pleasant for the most part. Exceptions always exist but on average, Thai immigration is far more pleasant than Cambodian immigration and don't get me started on Vietnamese customs officials. Horrible, aggressive and completely uncompromising people. Throwing passports back at tourists, including first time visitors is a common occurrence, especially at land borders. Forget about bringing in a car for tourism purposes. They hate that.

The people in all three countries are pretty friendly towards foreigners on the whole, though the Vietnamese have this weird habit of staring at foreigners as soon as you get outside of the tourist/expat areas. It's bizarre...I mean, haven't these people ever seen even any foreigners, who are often located just a short distance away? I once went to a rural area just outside of Nha Trang and was completely surprised by the weird response I received. Smiles and hellos from the kids, everyone crowding around to touch my hair and uncomfortable stares from the older generation. Yet just 30km away, thousands of foreigners, including Russians, Chinese and westerners from other countries were all over the place. It's like these rural folk came from the back of the moon, completely bizarre.

Yet when I travel to some isolated place or one which doesn't see many westerners anywhere in Thailand, nobody stares or acts weird. Even the kids rarely say hello and definitely no crowds form.

I think it's the mentality. Thais are often on the receiving end of criticism by jaded expats and foreigners, especially on this forum, but as you have correctly pointed out, there is a reason why Thailand hosts more westerners than any other Asian country other than Singapore. Even more than the Philippines I think, although numbers in that country may come close. It's because Thailand is, despite it's faults still far more welcoming than Japan, Korea, China and yes, ultimately, to some extent even Vietnam. Vietnam is fine if you stick to the tourist/expat areas, but it's not a very comfortable place to live if you choose to live out in the sticks. In fact, the government may not allow it and doesn't like foreigners hanging around border areas, except near official crossings.

9 minutes ago, ThePioneer said:

Yes sure, people who don't have a motor vehicle usually don't die in traffic accidents.

 

Thailand 60 deaths per 100.000 motor vehicles

 

Vietnam 55 deaths per 100.000

 

Hardly a 64% difference, but if it suits your agenda, why not post some false news.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

 

And even by population 32 vs 26 is also hardly a 64% difference

 

http://apps.who.int/gho/data/node.main.A997

 

Thailand in 2016 had 24.237 traffic deaths while Vietnam in the same year had 22.419 deaths.

 

Would love to see a source for your figures

Indeed. Vietnam is an even more dangerous place to drive than Thailand, on average. I have done it and I know what I'm talking about. Lots more motorcycles there, slower traffic speeds, but almost as many deaths. They have fewer vehicles on the road there, about 8 times fewer cars although more motorcycles.

1 hour ago, thecyclist said:

Actually, it is most Thais :Arguably one of the most xenophobic countries in the world. I would say they don't even consider us farangs fully human (absolutely nothing to do with age, as a previous poster suggested:it's a racial thing). And it's not from the top down, it permeates the whole of Thai society. A 3-year old has learned it already, when they point you out to their parents and say 5555 a farang. 

It's an Asian thing, not a Thai thing.

If anything, pointing out "hahaha farang" is becoming a lot rarer than in the past, at least in Thailand. Yet it's still quite common in Vietnam and China. No idea why the Chinese influenced countries have such a high rate of xenophobia, even in relatively touristy Vietnam step away from the tourist areas and go somewhere 20-30km away and you suddenly receive weird stares and hellos from the children. Many foreigners like receiving "hellos" but to me it becomes old after a while and rather than being friendly, it signals you are an outsider and can never be considered the same as them. So I view it more as a sign of poor education and mild xenophobia, even if it seems nice. I mean, a smile would be enough but no need to be reminded you are a foreigner every 2 seconds.

I can't remember the last time a Thai kid hellod me and I'm pretty familiar with Thailand, I go to all the most rural areas quite regularly. 15-20 years ago it was different - but these days no one really notices you anymore.

In Vietnam, China and other countries they still do. In Myanmar, staring is also less common despite there being far fewer foreigners in that country, but could be because Myanmar is more multicultural. They have a lot of Indian people and there are also Anglo-Burmese and Anglo-Indians. If you see people of different ethnic groups everyday then a westerner is suddenly not all that interesting. Whereas in Vietnam and China there is very little ethnic diversity. Ditto for Korea and Japan.

17 minutes ago, CNXexpat said:

What I saw in Hanoi was, that all pay the same at tourist attractions.

 

Do you only have been in Old Town? I live 20 minutes from the city Center away in a modern bungalow beside a lake in quiet nature, but still in Chiang Mai. What means "in the middle of nowhere"? Because there is no other big city nearby? Because it´s surrounded from beautiful nature? Which city in Vietnam isn´t in the middle of nowhere following your definition of Chiang Mai, where 1 mio. people are living?

When I was in Hanoi last March the air was minimal better than in Chiang Mai, but also very bad. 

 

Yes that's largely true but there are exceptions. Also, dual pricing is not well publicized everywhere so foreigners, especially tourists are often unaware of the practice. In Laos for example, in some places where I thought that dual pricing wasn't practiced, it actually is - what happens is a Lao person simply tells the ticket seller they are Lao (khoy pen kon Lao) and they get a 50% discount. Later I discovered this was printed behind the counter (in Lao, which I can read) to state that Lao citizens get a 50% discount. So rather than write out "khon Lao 10,000 Kip" they simply write: admission 20,000 Kip and then in words "Lao citizens get a 50% discount". Therefore, anyone looking for a different number don't see it. In Laos, they have their own numbers but they are used even more rarely than in Thailand, for some reason. Could be that the Communists decided to make it easier on the population just to use Arabic numbers and leave Lao numbers for historical purposes and advertising.

Perhaps Vietnam is similar in some places, you just have to look. I look for the word that means "foreigner" written in Vietnamese then I know there's dual pricing though it's true that at the majority of tourist attractions, dual pricing is no longer practiced. One well known exception that I know of is the Imperial palace in Hue. Definitely dual pricing there - I experienced it myself. Also, in general there are fewer tourist attractions of the type that one can find in Thailand, therefore there are fewer opportunities for the authorities to impose dual pricing.

21 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

No, it's absolutely a horrible place for foreign business, as every other communist country too. 

 

 

There are so many negatives about Vietnam...

 

1) The airports work currently because they have FAR LESS visitors

2) There's definitely less Western Food options and Bangkok is prolly one of the best if not the best city in the world for foodies, from street food over thai restaurants to michelin star places. Nothing anywhere close like that in HMC.

3) The VN government is FAR MORE RESTRICTIVE. Say the wrong thing and you don't get a police visit like Andrew, you vanish from earth.

   Facebook and co are severaly restricted in VN for a reason, Internet generally sucks compared to LOS.

4) VN has WORLDWIDE TAXES ON ALL YOUR INCOME, if they suspect you of dodging taxes you cannot leave the country anymore!! have fun getting out of that mess: https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2011/12/vietnam-income-tax.html

 

 

 

5) VIETNAM has the SAME TM30 crap we have here, it's just called different, it's called Article 33 and police visits there are far more likely if you don't do it!! It's the same like here, responsibility of the landlord but the police rips of the foreigners

6) There's NO GOOD visa option at all except dodgy agent business visas. NO retirement visa, NO investment visas, NO Thai elite

7) Property ownership is severly more restricted in Vietnam than in Thailand, not even Vietnamese can OWN land. 

8. Scams, Robbery and Pickpockets, dual pricing, overpayment etc are rampart, worse than Thailand imo

9) Same air pollution problems we have here

10) Banking is super restricted, unlike Thailand, have fun getting your money out of VN

11) See above, stuff like Bitcoin which is totally legal and even regulated in Thailand is completly forbidden in Vietnam and can get you into Jail, just owning it

12) Weird laws, that don't allow you to stay with a girl that's still married to someone else, can result in serious issues: http://oivietnam.com/2015/10/is-marriage-a-legal-prerequisite-to-cohabitation/

13) Healthcare sucks

 

 

So maybe for poor people Vietnam is the place to be as it's cheaper, but everyone who's well off should stay in Thailand for now imo.

 

Grass is greener fallacy as someone else already pointed out ... I was interested in Vietnam too, but i found so many negatives and some of them like worldwide taxation would make it far more expensive to life there for me and that alone is totally not worth it.

I agree with all this. Banking - very difficult to make a deposit into your own account in Vietnam. Dual pricing is worse than Thailand in unofficial ways - that is, food vendors and restaurants are somewhat more likely to overcharge foreigners.

However, government imposed dual pricing, which was very widespread until 2002, is now largely a thing of the past. There are still a few places that practice it (for example, the Imperial Palace in Hue and apparently one of the museums in Saigon) but it's rather uncommon when compared to Thailand's widespread practice of dual pricing at national parks, museums, temples and other tourist attractions (such as water parks). In some of the latter, expats should be able to receive the local price, but rarely at national parks anymore, except smaller, less visited ones. I am not aware of there being any dual pricing policy at Vietnamese national parks, but as I have only kinda driven past them and never properly entered any, I can't really say.

Cars are not going to get any cheaper in Vietnam. Doesn't matter if it's a result of a free trade deal or not. They'll just use non-tariff barriers to raise the cost. Already Vietnamese car prices are among the highest in the world, and significantly higher than in already expensive Thailand. Driving a car in Vietnam is seen as a privilege for the rich. Just last year, I was informed by my friend that the government there became concerned about what it called a "large number" of "cheap" pickup trucks, mostly imported from Thailand, which is the pickup truck manufacturing hub in the region. In response, the government has decided to whack on a 30% tax increase.

Vietnam's infrastructure is still hopelessly inadequate and driving a car there is way more challenging than in Thailand. Parking is quite difficult for cars in downtown city areas - the government is actively discouraging both car ownership and parking spaces. Unlike in Thailand, where even in downtown Bangkok you can find either a back street for parking (or even some main roads, outside of peak periods) or any number of hotel or shopping mall car parks, in HCMC, many of the streets are too narrow for cars and widespread, easy parking is only feasible in some of the newer suburbs, not in the city.

So if you can live without a car, and hop on a motorcycle then Vietnam may be the place for you.

Personally, what I see happening over the next 5 years is both countries will see improved infrastructure. Both Bangkok and Vietnamese cities like Ho Chi Minh and Hanoi will have more railway lines. Thailand will have at least 3 new expressways open by then - the one to Korat, the one to Kanchanaburi and the extension from Pattaya to Rayong. By then I would also expect ground to have been broken on further projects, such as the Nakorn Pathom to Cha-am expressway, potentially the Rama 2 one as well, also the Hat Yai to Sadao expressway and a number of others. The HSR from Kunming via Boten and Vientiane will likely be at least partially completed on the Thai side, with the Bangkok-Nakorn Ratchasima section being first.

In Vietnam there should be an extension to the 54km expressway to the east of the city, which also passes by the proposed new international airport, Long Thanh, with improvements to other main highways such as the complete duplification to 4-lanes of the 1700km long north-south highway between Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City, which is already more than halfway complete.

Visa rules - it's anyone's guess but mine is that tourist visas and exemptions will be more heavily scrutinized in both countries. Long-term tourists will not be welcome in Thailand unless they are high-net worth individuals and arrive on a METV (which by then could perhaps be valid for 12 months) but for those with money there may be other attractive visa options made available. Vietnam will probably introduce better visa options and start cracking down on perpetual tourists too, but in 2024 they will probably only be where Thailand was back in 2008, meaning they may tolerate people living on tourist visas for a few months, but not for years as is currently the case (and was the case in Thailand until 10-15 years ago).

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Most people that can qualify for PR based upon marriage and/or having children apply for Thai citizenship now since they changed the nationality act in 2009 to allow applications for them without PR. 

Would make more sense anyway, given that Thailand recognizes dual nationality and there is little benefit to having PR. Whereas with Thai citizenship you can suddenly own land, no need to report to immigration, no need for re-entry permits and you can easily start a business or a job.

50 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

No problem by air or land since you have a non-o visa for entry. You could do a out and back air on the same day if you wanted to.

By land the only border crossing that makes problems is Poi Pet. 

In my experience no problem with Aranyaprathet (Poipet is the Cambodian city on the other side) with a multi non-O but best if you don't do a same day "in-out" there. If you have spent some time in Cambodia (even one night) you should be fine. However, with so many other checkpoints to choose from, I would do Aranyaprathet/Poipet only if a passenger on the international bus between Bangkok and Phnom Penh or Bangkok and Siem Reap, since this is the only checkpoint they use.