29 minutes ago, Eindhoven said:

Unfortunately, you are being given some confusing replies. You can cancel the package and take note if the validity period has changed. If not, you need to do nothing. If so, you can go to a Boontherm machine outside 7-11 or Family Mart, and do multiple 10 baht top-ups(costing 12 baht) until your validity date maxxes out to July next year.

If you are not back by July next year, then you can top up 20 baht via your banking app or apply a package that gives you 30 days of extra validity for 30 baht, from your existing credit.

The particular package I have is a data only plan.   If you stop paying on it (without paying a fee to keep the number active) then you would loose the number, yes?

I did not consider the option of cancelling the plan but keeping the number, so yeah, that might work.  I'd stop by an AIS store of call their support number. (1175)

29 minutes ago, dastott said:

That’s what I was hoping. So, just top up with credit before the expiry date and I can use the same number when I return to Thailand.

If you're able to cancel the data plan while keeping the number of course.  If you can't cancel it then... ???

I found this helpful.  Thought you might find it interesting too.  It provides a good explanation of conduction vs convection.  There's more in the document that you may find interesting.  (It's from Sandra Bastin, PhD, RD, LD, Extension Specialist for Food and Nutrition, January 2011, University of Kentucky Cooperative Extension.  Link - warning, pdf! - http://www2.ca.uky.edu/hes/fcs/factshts/fn-ssb-002.pdf )

Quote

 

Conduction

Conduction transfers the heat using direct contact; food is heated directly in a metal pan, in a liquid, or surrounded by air. Dropping an egg into a pan of boiling water is a good example. The heat from the water is transferred to the egg. As the outside of the egg becomes warm, the heat moves into the center of the egg, continuing inward until the entire egg is heated to the desired temperature. The efficiency of the heat transfer depends on the conductivity of materials in contact with the food. Copper is one of the best conductors of heat. Heat transfers quickly from the heat source into the food through the copper cookware. In contrast, water, stainless steel, and the food itself, are poor conductors of heat.

 

Convection

Convection heat transfer occurs faster than conduction. Convection occurs by the movement of air, liquid, or steam around the food. For example, as a pan of soup heats up on the stove, heat moves from the bottom of the pan. This movement of hot and cool liquids or gases combines. Stirring the pan redistributes the heat from the bottom of the pan throughout the other ingredients. Convection is the reason frozen foods thaw more quickly when placed under cold running water. Convection can also occur mechanically by means of a fan that circulates the air in an oven. A convection oven can reduce the cooking time by 25 percent over standard ovens. It also increases browning of the food because of the concentrated heat on the surface of the food.

 

So it seems every method of cooking involves at least some small amount of conduction through the cooking container that you're using.  Except for microwaves, which only heat up water or fat, so the plate/bowl/dish you are using to hold the food doesn't heat the food.

Although....  I guess if someone wants to get really picky about it, one could make an argument that even microwave ovens can sort of transfer some heat through conduction.  They are notoriously uneven heaters, so it's possible that if one part of the food gets really hot, it could transfer heat to the bowl/plate, which would then get hot and start to transfer heat to a colder part of the food.

Point is, it seems like conduction is not really a difference between hot air fryers and glass convection ovens.  They both do it.

Now....  Does anyone know of any hot air fryers that also have an induction cooking option?!  ????

(Yes, I know that induction cooking would kind of get in the way of convection cooking.  But since companies are always looking for ways to enhance products with more features, whether they help or not, I figure there must be at least 1 out there!)

12 minutes ago, dastott said:

Thanks. That’s what I have been doing in Thailand. Do you suggest paying B200 a month to keep the package even when I am not in Thailand?

Depends on how long you will be gone I guess.  Just figure the total cost of keeping it for 11 months.  Then divide that number by how many months you will actually be here....

11 months * 200 baht/month = 2200 baht to keep the sim alive

If you will be here for 5 of those 11 months, 2200/5= 440 baht per month

If you will be here for 3 of those 11 months, 2200/3 = 733 baht per month

3 minutes ago, dastott said:

OK, so if I don’t top up for each month then I lose the number before June 2021? I am not sure when I can return...

 

The package is a pre-paid monthly unlimited data package using a Tourist SIM. There is no contract AFAIK.
 

 

Prepaid is no-contract.  I used to use True Pre-paid, and you have to keep topping up (or paying a small fee of a 2 or 3 baht every 30 days) to keep a number active with them.

I suspect with the AIS you have to pay in full each month to keep it alive, but I don't know the answer to that one.  Probably best to call them on that question.  They have service reps who speak English.  Their number is 1175.  If you do call, please post back here what you find out.  I'm curious to know the answer to that one too.

If that's one of the 200 Baht per month for 12 months unlimited data plans where you pay each month (I've got one of those plans) then I was told that the plan ends after 12 months.  It doesn't renew for another year or anything like that. 

While it's always possible they can extend the plan for another year, that's totally up to AIS.  More likely they'll replace the plan with something else.

As for paying for the plan each month, you can top up via Lazada each month (using bank account, credit card...) or just top up in advance with enough funds to cover every month you'll be gone.

1 hour ago, SEtonal said:

This tweet is from June 30 and still posted.

 

 

Got it.  Thank you!  Not that anyone should get their hopes up, but the first one posted in these forums (and deleted by the Embassy) was absolute in terms, while the older tweet you linked to here is open to change.  Compare....

The U.S. Embassy will no longer provide extension letters.  

vs

The U.S. Embassy in Bangkok and the U.S. Consulate General in Chiang Mai are not currently issuing extension letters and we have no plans to issue visa extension letters after July 31.

2 hours ago, digger70 said:

it's  a confirmed Rumour that the confirmed rumour is unconfirmed.  ????

Can someone please confirm this?!

2 hours ago, n00dle said:

Not sure what you are trying to show here, many/most businesses and individuals purchase a domain online and tucows is simply the registrar, not the registrant.

 

Similarly, hosting can be located almost anywhere, its an online purchase.

You are right!  In this case the hosting is cloud based (using Google's cloud services) in the US.

2 hours ago, n00dle said:

And  where does it indicate or even suggest that the site is thai-owned or operated? 

You are right again!  It does not suggest that at all, but then I was not trying to suggest that.  I'm suggesting the exact opposite, that the site it NOT Thai owned or operated.  And that's a problem if you are a news outlet operating in Thailand.  Are they news?  Let's apply the duck test...

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

Of course, with the rumor and speculation that site posts, they may have a good defense against the government ever claiming they are a news operation!

2 hours ago, n00dle said:

Finally, a full whois, which you do not provide here, shows the registrant has paid for domain privacy. So you have no idea what adress they have given.

Right again!  Although you've also missed the point.  (I blame myself for being to cryptic or unclear.)  The physical address of the owner is hidden, but the IP address of the hosting provider isn't.  

Let's compare two sites:

Notice anything different about them?

2 hours ago, n00dle said:

Thaivisa.com is registered to an american registrar with a kowloon address and us ip address and nameservers.

Thaivisa is obviously not a news site.  Everyone knows what it is - a group of highly opinionated people (myself included!) discussing Thailand related issues. 

2 hours ago, n00dle said:

Nationthailand.com is similarly a us registrar, godaddy and runs on us registered cloudflare nameservers and hosting.

I think there are some errors in that statement. Nationthailand is a Thai owned and operated news operation (owned by the Nation Multimedia Group).  Cloudflare isn't a hosting provider.  They are a content delivery network (CDN).  So we can't actually see where their hosting server is located, but we CAN see where it was located before they started using Cloudflare's CDN service....

That domain is now defunct, but using the Internet Archive you can pull up an old web page (this screenshot is from 2004, even though the copyright still says 2000) that shows that site is (or was) owned by.....

So... krungthepturakit.com was owned by the same company that owns Nationthailand.com.  And like like Bangkokpost.com, they are both Thai owned and operated media companies operating from Thailand.

2 hours ago, n00dle said:

Simply put, your sleuthing is pointless, because you have no idea what you are looking for. 

Awww.... I guess I wasn't clear enough.  Again, I blame myself.

How does one judge the veracity of a site?  Or a news story?  One way is to look at a source's past credibility.  (In this case the site has no past.)  Rather than base my opinions on a gut feel or some nebulous thoughts floating around inside my head, I prefer to look for some kind of factual evidence as to a source's veracity and work from there.

My opinion based on the facts I found tell me the herald site is nothing more than a rumor/speculation clickbait site.  One that is pretending to be a news site.  Want fake news?  There it is!

Sites like that do more harm than good in my opinion.  I wish people would take the time to research the authenticity of sites before they link to them (I'm sure I'm guilty of doing that too) but most people don't.

I'm genuinely glad you took the time to reply to my post and push back.  It gave me a reason to explore the issue even more to satisfy my own curiosity.  I've done the best I can with my limited abilities and resources, and I hope it helps others.  I also hope others will push back with facts to correct anything that I've said that might be wrong.  Helps me, helps others.  

2 hours ago, n00dle said:

There are reasons to doubt the bangkok heralds credibility as an established news source, you just havent posted any of them here.

3 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

You are absolutely correct.  What they are doing is telling the Americans not here on a current Visa or extension of stay that the Jig is almost up in their purview, and that those folks need to move onto Plan B and Plan C and book a flight home or check in with the embassy and get a repatriation loan if they can not afford to fly out on there own in order to return to the US.

But what are they "saying" to Americans when they delete that tweet shortly after posting it?

At the very least I'd suggest they realized that there may actually be a need to issue such letters in the future.  Not saying they will issue them, just that it's better they probably not say they won't, than to have to change there position later.

3 hours ago, crazykopite said:

Reading this attachment seems a clear message to all Americans book your ticket home if you don’t have a current visa

Is that a new tweet?  Or is it the one they tweeted a few days ago and then quickly deleted?

2 hours ago, Eibot said:

Because it's ran by an American Expat who wants to bring independent news outside the "truth" of the Thai Goverment?

Quite likely an expat, whether it is an American or otherwise.  But I'm not sure if there is any "truth" to the content that is being discussed here.  It's rumor and speculation.

Regardless, if they look like a media outlet, act like a media outlet, and present themselves as a media outlet (which seems to be just what they are doing) then they may very well be subject to Thai media ownership laws.

Of course, media outlets shouldn't be passing rumor and speculation off as news, so that might be a good legal argument if they ever got in trouble for being an unregistered media corporation operating in Thailand.  "Hey, we're not a media outlet!  We're just posting rumors and speculation!" 

I have my own opinions about media ownership laws generally, though I don't have any specifically about the laws in Thailand.  And even if I did, who would care?!  It isn't up to me - or any of us - to decide what does/doesn't violate Thai law.

Farangs in Thailand right now.....

And the Trump admin rescinds the plan....

Quote

Government Rescinds Plan to Strip Visas From Foreign Students in Online Classes

The Trump administration said it would no longer require international students to attend in-person classes during the coronavirus pandemic in order to remain in the country.

 Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/us/coronavirus-international-foreign-student-visas.html

14 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

 

Note: Since you are here on a Tourist Visa entry, you could enquire about this at various IOs, as there is often no consistency in how the apply the rules in different IOs (especially in this unprecedented situation).  It is therefore well possible that your application would be denied in IO X, but accepted in IO Y.

 

Interesting....  This is something I had not considered.  Usually people need to go to their "local" IO to take care of things, but if they are technically here on tourists visas, then wherever they are currently would be their "local" office.

So, for people on tourist visas, what are the best offices to visit?  (I've read elsewhere on the forums that Phuket is processing extension application for people who are currently under the automatic visa extension that ends July 31st.)  Of course, that would be a long way to travel if you're somewhere like Chiang Mai.

Under normal circumstances (if there was no virus) a 30 day extension would... wait for it...  extend the expiration of your tourist visa by 30 days.  That means it adds 30 days to your permitted stay.  For example, suppose you arrived here on January 2, 2019 on a 60 day single entry tourist visa.  That visa would have expired on, uh, March 3, 2019.  If you applied for and received a 30 day extension on January 25th, the expiration of your visa would then have changed to April 2, 2019.

Obviously with the current situation where the government has already extended your visa automatically (it's not an amnesty, it's an automatic extension) it is unclear what will happen.

It looks like by this time next week (if not sooner) there may be answers.

My personal guess (which is no better or worse than anyone else's guess) is that they'll start doing either 30 or 60 day extensions via in person application and payment of a fee.  I tend to leans towards it being a 60 days (at least this first time) but nobody knows.

Good luck!

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1948648/immigration-office-to-reopen-at-muang-thong-thani

Quote

It will handle 90-day reports, accommodation reports under Section 38 (TM38) of the Immigration Act, and requests for short-stay extensions....

 

The Muang Thong Thani office would help cater for the many foreigners still unable to return home because of the airport closures in many countries, he said.

16 hours ago, Thunder26 said:

I don't know where you live, but the restrictions are still in force. You can't do the shopping without a mask. The fans are not allowed to watch team sports, schools actually banned them at the moment. As you can see the restrictions are still there ????

In BKK, lots of people have been taking masks off in malls after getting their temperature check done.  Not good.

13 hours ago, tribalfusion001 said:

Is this the 1st wave that is similar to opening up a packet of Lays and finding hardly any crisps or taking off a Thai girls bra to find it's mostly stuffing and push up lol.

 

58 dead and 3200 ish infections and a -8.1 drop in GDP.

It could just as easily have been 580 dead, 32,000 infected.  Or 5,800 dead, 320,000 infected.  Or more.  With the same, or worse, drop in GDP.

Or, put another way...  In the US, there were big outbreak in NYC, Pacific NW, CA....  NYC shut the city down a bit too late but they finally managed to get it under control.  Pacific NW and CA too.  But now it's roaring back in CA because they relaxed too soon.  And in other parts of they US it was all fake news and a plot to sabotage the president.  Now they've got...

3 hours ago, wombat said:

 

yes, i agree

https://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-news/virus-found-in-march-2019-spain-sewage/news-story/80e74311b4949c634ffb6f5353f07260

RE: the article you linked to, a quote from it....

Quote

 

Dr Joan Ramon Villalbi of the Spanish Society for Public Health and Sanitary Administration told Reuters it was still early to draw definitive conclusions.

"When it's just one result, you always want more data, more studies, more samples to confirm it and rule out a laboratory error or a methodological problem," he said.

 

Cross contamination, mislabeling of samples, poor record keeping.  It's incredibly odd to have a single positive test result from one point in time that is surrounded by lots of negative test results before and after that point in time.

Eventually it should be possible to trace back the origin of the virus to a time/place of fair certainty, and how it spread across the globe, but single test results like this don't mean anything.

In fact, in terms of tracing, they've already pretty much done that in terms of pinpointing it to China.  If you're interested....

https://nextstrain.org/narratives/ncov/sit-rep/en/2020-05-15

Quote

Executive summary

We analyzed 5,193 publicly shared COVID-19 genomes. By comparing these viral genomes to each other, we can characterize how SARS-CoV-2 is evolving and moving around the world. This week, we focus on viral mutations. We cover:
 

• Where viral mutations come from (they're normal)
• The rate of mutation in SARS-CoV-2 (very typical)
• How many strains of SARS-CoV-2 are circulating (as far as we know: 1)
• How geography and epidemiology contribute to perceived differences in viral genotypes (this is tricky)

While it's always possible that an older parent strain turns up later as research into it's origins continue, but as of now all roads point to Wuhan as the original source.

More on how they do this kind of research:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200409085644.htm

https://phys.org/news/2020-04-genetic-barcode-rapidly-revealing-covid-.html

1 hour ago, Boomer6969 said:

It is an amnesty because these people are currently overstaying the visa they have in their passport, or not carrying out procedures required during their stay. But they are forgiven for all their crimes.

How does that answer the question?

It's just another comment/opinion that it's amnesty (an opinion of which everyone is entitle to have).  But it's the same thing people have been saying even though ALL the evidence actually from the government is contrary to that.

Can someone (anyone?) actually point to anything other than comments by tweeters, in these forums, and elsewhere online that this is an amnesty and not an extension?

17 minutes ago, VBF said:

From https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/amnesty 

 

"a fixed period of time during which people are not punished for committing a particular crime"

 

Therefore, it COULD be said that had people not been granted permission to stay without extending, or border hopping or whatever, then they would have become criminals simply by staying, so the amnesty prevented that from happening. 

 

OR....from https://www.dictionary.com/browse/amnesty

 

"Law. an act of forgiveness for past offenses, especially to a class of persons as a whole."

 

So the act of staying would have caused people to commit the offence of overstaying, which would now be a "past offence", thus...amnesty

 

Just my take on it.......the defence rests, M'Lud ????

Excellent dictionary definitions!  Thank you!

I would however, argue they strengthen the position that the government has not issued an amnesty of any kind.  Rather, people have been given permission to stay with automatic temporary extensions.  Hence they are not criminals and therefore would not need amnesty.

And now I realize that I failed to post the 2nd page of that Government notice, in which it states, without any ambiguity, "The period of time permitted for stay in the Kingdom under... [various acts and notifications from the Ministry of the Interior]  shall be temporarily extended from 1 May B.E. 2563 (2020) to 31 July B.E. 2563 (2020)"!

My bad for failing to post that before.  Here it is:

4 minutes ago, timendres said:

I believe it was the press that first coined the term.

Where they got it from I have no clue.

It's an excellent point, and I've wondered about that.

I thought perhaps that the first time the government extended the visa in April, they may have called it an amnesty.  But even then, they called it an extension.  In fact, at that time they required people to apply for the extension.  It wasn't automatic.

From April 10th's Bangkok Post:
 

Quote

 

The government has relaxed visa rules for foreign visitors and those from neighbouring countries holding a temporary border pass since they are unable to leave the country due to the Covid-19 pandemic.

 

However, foreigners who work or live in the kingdom, will have to report and apply for visa extensions as usual.

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1896700/stranded-foreigners-receive-visa-relief

So It seems pretty clear that the first extension was not an amnesty, though that didn't stop various sites, tweeters, youtubers... from calling it an amnesty.  But nobody in the government or press did.  (I could be wrong, but I've searched quite extensively and haven't found anything.)

I'd also highlight that the government had the power to change immigration rules via an executive order, so the rules related to visas seem to be promulgated and not legislatively developed.  This begs the question then, if the first extension through executive order was not considered amnesty by the government, why would the second extension be considered amnesty?  (Again, I've found no evidence that the government views it as amnesty; all evidence is that it's an extension, albeit one granted by order automatically without need for application.)

To put it succinctly, if the executive can change the rules regarding the number or duration of visa extensions, why can it not also change the method by which they are extended (automatic instead of application)?

"Amnesty for foreigners" sounds a lot more clickbaity than "Automatic visa extensions for foreigners" (which is rather prosaic).  Amnesty is a loaded word that can trigger a lot of emotion in people.  Whether it's amnesty for migrants in Europe fleeing conflict areas or amnesty for people crossing the southern boarder of the US... it's bound to get more eyes than dull old "visa extension".

There's probably no way to ever know who first called it an amnesty, and in the end it doesn't even really matter.  But if anyone has any links they can share to articles or videos of people in government calling it an amnesty, please do post.

38 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

I disagree with that part. They knew what was coming for months, they still had ways out even in the middle of pandemic, they just CHOSE not to take it.

Is there something wrong with people making that choice?  No one asked for a free extension, and many (if not all) were surprised by it.  It seems to have brought a lot of good will towards the Thai government from those who have benefited, perhaps some hostility from those who don't (or wish they could, but can't).

If Thailand chooses to extend visas further, either for free or for a fee, would that be a good or bad decision?  

57 minutes ago, anchadian said:

But stranded foreigners, who have been able to stay in Thailand via a visa amnesty, have an approaching D-Day – July 31, 2020. This is the sunset of the current amnesty for foreigners who have, through no fault of their own, been stuck in Thailand whilst the borders have been closed. Whilst sitting out the Covid-19 outbreak in the pleasant Thai sunshine, the clock is ticking and the end of the amnesty is in sight.

 

What is the origin of this being called an amnesty, is what I'm curious about.

43 minutes ago, timendres said:

While you are correct that immigration has been implementing automatic "extensions", those extensions are not implemented under any previously existing law - thus the term "amnesty".

This is an interesting idea.  Are visas types, duration, and requirements specifically written into laws as passed by the Thai legislature?  Or are they rules promulgated by the executive branch via administrative agencies, such as Thailand Immigration?

It could make a difference.  If they are promulgated rules by an executive branch of government, then could the executive branch - especially under the emergency decree - not promulgate new rules, even if only on a temporary basis?

If the types, duration, and requirements are passed by the legislature, then I could see how the extension is an amnesty.  Otherwise, I can't.  (Of course, it doesn't really matter what I or anyone else can or can't see/understand/agree with, though a better understanding of the laws and rule making process here might help shed a better light on the situation.)

Serious question here....

Why do people keep calling what the Thai government did last April an Amnesty, and not an extension?  I have only ever seen it called an extension by the Thai government.  It seems like the whole "it's not an extension, it's an amnesty" meme started with people like Richard Barrow.  But what is the evidence/rationale for this?

For example, this comes from the Thialand Ministry of Foreign Affairs website (link below):

You can download here: http://www.mfa.go.th/protocol/contents/files/news-20200430-212528-840791.pdf

Then there is this....

Put Immigration Bureau, it says that there's no need to extend the visa, do 90 day reporting, pay any fee, or submit any documents, and that the, "Immigration Bureau will process the abovementioned steps automatically".

That sure seems to say that they are processing an automatic visa extension, which would clearly not be a visa.

Can someone (anyone?) actually point to anything other than comments by tweeters, in these forums, and elsewhere online that this is an amnesty and not an extension?

Thanks! 

1Mbps is 125KB/s... it's quite slow. 

With an optimum connection, you could get 480p streams from Youtube, but it's more likely you would get 360p.  Google recommends the following....

Source: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/78358?hl=en

That's also super expensive.  AIS offers much cheaper/better plans for a lot less money.  For example, a couple of months ago 

they offered 10Mbps (1250KB/s) of unlimited data for 200 baht/month prepaid.  They've since replaced that with a 4Mbps unlimited for the same 200 baht/month.

If you can get that plan, you would be 4X better off in speed (and able to get HD quality from youtube) for 1/6th the price each month.  And of course, it's unlimited.  The plan requires a new SIM (50 bath) and lasts for 12 months from the date of activation.