Patts

52 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

Those death rates are only for tested positive, once you include the one's not tested with mild symptoms it drops to around 0.2 to 0.5. We will only know the true mortality rate if everyone is tested for antibodies.

You can say that but the UK has one of the highest tested rates per million people in the world and yet we have the highest mortality rate so what you said doesn't ring true

5 hours ago, Chivas said:

Its a tough choice. Make no mistake Thailand has done superbly over containing Covid unlike my own hapless government in the UK which have acted with catastrophic results.

I suspect the borders will open later this year but with really onerous restrictions in place first that will put off 95% of regular visitors.

 

I cant praise Thailand enough personally for the superb job they have done in controlling Covid overall

Stop talking nonsense. 

The only two things the UK have done wrong is:

1) Not banning international flights

2) Not making it a legal requirement to wear masks in public places

Neither of these explain why the mortality rate in Spain, Italy, Belguim, Netherlands and the UK is over 10% when in most of Asia and the Middle East it is under 3%

Sick of reading comments blaming the governments of these countries when on the whole they have been just as strict as anywhere else in the world!

13 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

When did this start, though?  Until recently, at supermarkets in Bangkok, there were no screens, and customer's hands were on everything.  This is while "non-essential" businesses were closed, including smaller markets, during the peak-death numbers. 

 

The only effect was to drive all purchases to 7-11 and large supermarkets - creating a common shared-spreading area.  Then, the "shopper" would come home, and be locked inside, where the virus spreads best.

This was before we had solid-data showing only certain groups faced danger from this virus, so I would come home and alcohol wipe everything. 

Hi jack, 

This is the measures at Sainbury's Supermarket in the UK

The mind boggles how these guys get themselves into these positions. She must have been a great actress ????

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Mate you are obviously a nationalistic Brit as you its mentioned in all the papers that the UK is performing as one of the worst in Europe. My country the Netherlands has 4 times less inhabitants and 5875 deaths through corvid. The UK has up to 48K according to news sources. So you do the math. The Netherlands and UK have similar climate. I would say in the Netherlands the population density is even higher as in the UK. (a risk factor). Also Germany is doing far better then the UK and better then my country in death rate per capita. So the UK is NOT doing well. Its on par with the worst hit countries. 

 

You are saying that its through underlying factors that are yet not fully understood. So without proof I have to accept that it is this way. Sounds a lot like you have no argument.

 

I fully accept that there MIGHT be some other things too however NOTHING of that has been proven so far. So to use it as an argument is wrong. Thailand was faster in reacting. The UK only just locked its airports. Thailand did this long ago not importing cases. The UK just responded too slow while Thailand responded faster.

 

You are awfully silent about the BTS remark after i showed you an article of the UK underground having exactly the same problem. 

 

 

 

 

I didn't answer the point in regard to Thai vs UK public transport because it is apparent that they have both been bad and although this has increased the spread of Covid19 it doesn't explain why the Mortality rate is so different. 

The UK's death toll as of last night stands at 37,460 against 267,240 confirmed cases which gives a mortality rate of 14.01%

The Netherlands total deaths are 5871 against 45,768 confirmed cases which gives a mortality rate of 12.82% so the survival rate is only 1.19% better then the UK and we are far from those in Germany and Asia  

I completely agree about UK accepting international flights and the government have still not banned them which is unbelievable and would have definitely reduced the spread but again it doesn't explain Europes or the UK's high rate of mortality. 

In terms of national lockdowns the UK respond two days later then Thailand so not really that different. 

None of our conversation has provided any evidence as to why Asia and the Middle East have a much much better Mortality rate then the UK, Europe, US etc 

The other interesting thing is Sweden, they have no lockdown, Most businesses, restaurants, bars, and schools have remained open, though gatherings of more than 50 people were banned in late March and they follow social distancing but they have only 4,220 deaths against 35,088 cases giving a mortality rate of 12%. 

33 minutes ago, robblok said:

So your not even in Thailand. That explains a lot. Bashing Thailand while not even being here and only seeing the bad sides not how it works for real. Of course only exceptions would make it to youtube. I mean films of people following the rules wont get any hits. 

 

Scanning temperature works and yes you got people without symptoms but at least the ones with symptoms stay outside. I hear nothing about hand cleaning with alcohol gel ? That is known to work.

 

In Thailand they also keep seats open on busses just like the uk

 

You complain about the BTS in BKK but forget that the same happens in the UK (Mr Thaibasher)

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/13/uk/london-underground-boris-johnson-analysis-gbr-intl/index.html

 

Yes there are 2 strains but there is no proof that Thailand has only one strain. Remember loads of tourists from Europe brought it here. So again your finding excuses.

 

The UK is doing it worse then my county in deatch per capita so stop acting like the UK is doing it ok its one of the worst in Europe yet you keep bashing Thailand.

 

Do I think its just the Thai governments doing that the death rate is lower. No I don't probably other things. But I think that the people from the UK are the last to comment on things given how bad their country has managed things. 

 

 

 

 

Mate, 

I can't be bothered to wast my time because you clearly don't read what's written and only answer the points you feel like. 

I said twice that Hand gel is used  "many people as in hand sanitiser" and "hands sanitiser used"

Not once have I "bashed" Thailand. I have only defended the negative nonsense you and Yinn keep posting about Europe and the UK's handling of corona virus!

Is it a secret what country you are from because you keep mentioning how much better they have done but never mention where?

4th Time, take note of the final sentence. 

This will be the third time of repeating myself, the number of deaths in the UK and Europe is nothing to do with how well the governments have managed the virus it is due to underlying factors that aren't currently fully understood but is likely down to the different strains of the virus and weather conditions. 

You constantly go on and on that the UK has done a bad job but you have not provided a single bit of evidence about what they have done worse then Thailand (or any country) that has made the death toll higher!

6 hours ago, robblok said:

Mutated strain.. give me some proof of that as nobody has given that as a reason in the official briefings. Cold might play a role but has not been really proven how much it does. I guess you really don't know Thailand well as BKK for instance is as busy as London and people live close together go in public transport more packed then the UK. Outside of BKK you got factories where they work in cramped conditions.

 

I guess your one of those nationalists that can't admit to anything substantial (thanks for the remark on contact tracing). Even my country same conditions as in the UK has only half the amounts of deaths per capita. So the UK screwed it up royally and you still dont want to admit they did it worse then Thailand. I guess nationalism blinds people as the UK is one of the worst countries for corvid per capita and still you trump your chest and act like everything is fine.

 

In Thailand there are temprature checks everywhere masks required and hand washing too. I havent heard about that in my country. Have you heard about it in the UK ?. What i have noticed that especially Americans and Europeans hate the contract tracing rules (read on the forum) and wearing masks. So that is a difference too.

 

Testing has nothing to do with it at all as I am talking about deaths not contagions. You can hide contagions by not testing but overflowing hospitals you cannot hide. That is why i use it as a measure. Even if the amount of Thais that died are 10x the official number its still lower as in the UK and my country the Netherlands.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/05/world/europe/coronavirus-united-kingdom-national-health-service.html

 

(just a quick google on ICU bed in UK they all say they are overflowing)

 

 

You pick and choose what you bother to read in my replies. I said a large proportion of Thai's (not all) have what is classed as outdoor living and work outdoors. I said nothing about Bangkok, I am not referring to Cities, I am talk about rural Thailand. Taking temperature of people when entering a shop is an utter wast of time because it is estimated that at least 50% of carriers are asymptomatic. 

In the UK all supermarkets I have used, people queue outside, min of 2 metres apart and only single people, no couple or families are allowed. We are only allowed to enter when someone leaves. We must walk around the store in a one way direction maintaining social distancing. We have to wait to be called to checkout to pay. All trollies and baskets are cleaned after use. Masks and gloves are used by many people as in hand sanitiser. 

Buses and public transit only allow limited passengers and seats are blocked out. Hospitals and doctors are very strict, only limited appointments at a set time, masks must be warn and hands sanitiser used. No waiting in waiting rooms is allowed. The hospital or doctors call in the morning of the appointment to ask questions about symptoms. 

All non essential shops, restaurants, cinemas, gyms, swimming pools, hotels, theme parks etc etc have been closed for over 2 months. 

We are not allowed to visit family or friends and are only allowed to leave our homes for essential food shopping if home delivery is not available or to exercise once a day (individually).

There is at least two strains of Covid 2 and some medical professionals I know say there is more. 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2236544-coronavirus-are-there-two-strains-and-is-one-more-deadly/

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/what-to-know-about-mutation-and-covid-19#The-new-coronavirus-is-mutating,-but-very-slowly

I watch numerous Youtube channels of Vloggers in Thailand and I have friends who live there and I have seen and heard there is limited social distancing at markets, some supermarkets, BTS, bus station etc etc. I have seen many Thais not wearing masks or I do admit they are far better at this then most people in the UK. 

There are no overflowing hospitals in the UK and plenty of capacity. 

This will be the third time of repeating myself, the number of deaths in the UK and Europe is nothing to do with how well the governments have managed the virus it is due to underlying factors that aren't currently fully understood but is likely down to the different strains of the virus and weather conditions. 

Deaths across most of Europe are far higher then Asia.

Deaths in Spain, Italy, France, UK, Belgium, Netherlands and Sweden are all in the range of 10 to 15%

In most counties in the Middle East and Asia the mortality rate is well below 3%

Do you honestly believe this is due to some miraculous difference in the way the Middle East and Asia have treated the disease that they haven't shared with the rest of the world? 

7 hours ago, faraday said:

I meant to add...

 

When I compare Thailand's response to C19 with the UK, it is very clear which country has been most responsible.

 

Speaking with my sister two nights ago, when I told her of the procedure on entering BigC or Tesco's for example, she was amazed.

 

Then, just look at the mortality rate.

 

So yeah, I finks Thailand's done good.

 

 

You are talking nonsense. 

The only difference is that Thailand take temperature which is completely irrelevant if the person is asymptomatic which is believed to be the case in over 50% of people with Covid. All of the supermarkets where I live, people have to queue outside, maintaining at least 2 metre gap, you are only allowed in when someone leaves. We have to walk around the supermarket in a oneway direction and maintain social distancing. You then have wait to be called to a free checkout that has glass screen to divid customers form staff. People are advised to wear masks and gloves. All trolleys are sprayed down and clean after use 

44 minutes ago, robblok said:

Not a hypocrite at all.. I guess your from the UK not wanting to accept the failure of your country (one of the worst in Europe). My country has half the rate and is still light years away from Thailand in death rate. 

 

You call it luck (part of it might be so) but Thailand has taken far more measures as my country. So its not all luck. Whenever i call and tell people about the temperature checks, the masks, the hand sanitizer and now the tracking they all say oh we dont do any of that over here. 

 

Limited testing has nothing to do with deaths. You cant hide deaths not if they are in the numbers of the UK and my country. The ICU was almost overflowing it was a real concern. If Thailand had this then we would have seen it. So its not about testing.

 

I guess many Europeans and Americans just don't want to admit that their governments screwed up and that they handled it poorly. If it was just the hot weather then why is it such a problem in South America (also higher temperatures not as high as in Thailand but still).

 

Most people take every opportunity to bash the Thais and then when their own home countries are doing bad they are finding all kinds of excuses why its not so. Guess the nationalistic feelings never go away for some.

 

 

Wow, you are clueless. You keep banging on about the amount of deaths and seem to think this indicates how well a country has done; it doesn't!

You are trying to compare Apples to Oranges! As mentioned before Europe and the US have been hit by a mutated strain which is spreads more easily and has a higher mortality rate than the original strain of the virus that hit most of Asia and the middle east, this is a fact. There is also the fact that a large proportion of Thai's have "outdoor" living and many work outdoors as opposed to europeans who live in sealed homes and work in confined offices and factories. the Sun and Temperature play a role in the mortality rate, as shown by the MUCH lower mortality rate compared to cool countries. 

You say "Europeans and Americans just don't want to admit that their governments screwed up and that they handled it poorly" and "I guess your from the UK not wanting to accept the failure of your country". This is utter bullcr*p. You tell me how Thailand have handled it better, what changes you think they made or actions they have taken that you think are better then Europe? If you bother to do even minor research you will see that Europe has taken far more aggressive actions than Thailand and in many cases much earlier than Thailand . 

Testing: UK has tested 50,929 people per million, Thailand has tested 3,421 per million. 

The UK is currently testing over 100,000 people a day compared to Thailand's 3,300

There is one area that I will concede that the UK hasn't done well in and that is contact tracing.

I'm so bored of reading nonsense about how much better Thailand have done at controlling the spread and mortality of Covid19 over Europe when they have factually been far more relaxed in there measures then most European countries especially considering that Thailand was the first country outside of China to be hit by the virus. 

Bar charts from BBC News on 7th April. 

Link to source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-52103747

20 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

I emboldened and added asterisks to the word "fact".  I apologize but it was necessary to highlight the error.

 

All of these things you have pointed out are merely theoretical possibilities, currently lacking in any suficiently convincing data or scientific predictions that have withstood falsifiable tests. Absolutely NONE of them are fact.

 

There is too much fake news spreading around already. I get tired of hearing everyone treat science as equivalent to opinion. It is not. Finding any genuine science on this disease in the forest of people that present their opinions as fact is exhausting. Opinions continue to be used to justify policies by governments as if opinions counted as facts.

 

This is fundamentally wrong. While I understand governments use this illegitimate tactic to control populations for their own agendas, we do not need to adopt their egregious habits.  We need to be better than them. We need to accept that nobody genuinely knows what is happening here, and we likely won't know for many years in hindsight.

 

Until this point, everyone's opinion is just that, and nobody's opinion should ever be considered fact.

 

 

Please feel free to provide evidence that any of the points I have posted are incorrect. Everything I have posted is from Doctors and Scientists but if you know so much better happy to hear where I was wrong

1 hour ago, Traubert said:

Makes as much sense as your batty theory.

What Batty theory? Please enlighten me on what you're referring to? 

50 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Claptrap - indeed your post is! Whilst it's true to say much much more research needs to be done to determine the different effects in different countries, the Thai people have and are behaving far better than citizens in other countries. The UK has and is still shambolic.

 

I visited a shopping mall yesterday. First time since the easing. Very impressed at the precautions on entry, on entering individual shops within the mall and the general sensible behavior of the vast majority of the people in the mall.

 

 

You clearly don't live in the Uk so how would you know "The UK has and is still shambolic.?" Yes there are a few morons who don't follow lockdown rules but most do. I would say that the UK government was slow to react and they should have made face masks mandatory in public. From the video's I've seen in the media, there is no social distancing in Thailand, markets full of people, BTS, bus stations etc. 

The UK are doing over 100,000 tests a day, how many are Thailand doing? 

The UK is likely to be the first country with a vaccine, that is due to be completed and available September, when is Thailands due to be ready?

42 minutes ago, Mulambana said:

I was reading an article that European genes have weak immune response. It was caused at the dawn of human evolution when interbreeding between neanderthals and modern human was rampant in Europe. But Australia and New Zeland have very low case fatality rate and compares well with Asian/African countries. This virus is very enigmatic. Every time one finds a theory, a counter example negates it. 

You talk utter <deleted>!

The article also said "research suggests" e.g not a fact and it also stated "Previous work has shown our ancestors had interbred with Neanderthals 55,000 years ago, possibly in the Middle East."  Since when is Europe in the Middle East?????

Further quotes from the article:

"The analysis shows the man was more closely related to modern East Asians and Native Americans than to today's Europeans."

"This sample, despite being in Romania, doesn't yet look like Europeans today," said Prof Reich.

Do your research instead of spreading lies!

Pretty much every comment is pointing to the fact that countries in South East Asia have more sun and thus higher levels of Vit D which in part is true and the higher level of vitamin D will help fight the respiratory infection, it will not provide immunity. 

The fact is that America and Europe has had far more cases and a higher rate mortality is due to:

1) Delay in implementing lockdowns

2) Delay in stop international travel or in case of the UK not stopping it at all!

3)Governments not enforcing the wearing of masks

4) People taking the illness to lightly and comparing it to Flu

5) Poor nutrient intake of Vit C, Vit D and Zinc

6) While it has been shown that COVID19 can survive in temperatures of 60c higher temperatures and UV from the Sun prevent or decrease the ability and length of time the virus can survive on surfaces and in the air. 

But beyond all of the above and the main factor is Asia has been hit with the original L strain which is less contagious and has much lower mortality. The US and Europe have been hit hardest by the mutated S strain that came from Italy and is far more infectious and deadly. 

This is the reason for the wide difference in cases and deaths

6 hours ago, Oldie said:

But "we" are not all ????

Then why live there you miserable old git?

Plenty of other places in Asia that will suit the quiet boring life you seek

4 hours ago, CLW said:

Good reaction and emergency braking of the car driver. No airbags?

No ABS brakes either by the sound of the squeeling tyres 

No matter what happens in Thailand the Baht will remain strong. In 2011 when Thailand experienced flood and many internation business had to close the Baht barely moved. 

1 minute ago, ChouDoufu said:

man, meet straw.

no further comment.

else all will be deleted.

No please comment further, isn't that what forums are for? 

9 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

are you saying that because it's true, or you really want to believe it?

 

legitimate news sources are reporting small clusters in a few cities, as expected, with higher numbers caught by testing at border crossings and airports.

 

if i were to base my world view on propaganda sites like "china in focus" i'd get validation for how i really wish china would be suffering and nearing collapse, but i wouldn't be getting the truth of the situation.

 

i could repeat that everything the ccp says is lies, that 21 million cellphone subscribers died, that 5000 urns were delivered daily, etc.  and when those talking points got debunked enough times, i could move on to the next unverified accusations.

So you are saying that everything that comes out of the CCP is the truth and they didn't fail to inform the rest of the world about the Virus back in early December or that the virus can be spread through Human to Human transmission and the CCP silenced the doctors 

10 minutes ago, Ranshoko said:

Look at the history of infectious diseases, the worse in the last several decades have come from China. Why? because of the filthy wild animal practices prevalent there. The human race will eventually become extinct, most probably because of an irreversible virus initiated from China. You can laugh but this is reality  ......... live your life to the full, may be it old, young, decrepit, or otherwise. 

It certainly seems that there is a major issue with some of China's practices that cause these animal virus to mutate or spread to humans and despite this happening numerous times China have been very relaxed about taking action to knock the cause on the head. After the SARS outbreak China did initially impose measures to restrict wild animal sales in wet markets but for some odd reason they allowed the practices to continue again a few years later. I feel it is quite right the CCP face legal action for the death and misery they have caused to over 200 countries!