epicstuff

I can understand it .. if the guy is innocent and some internet hero's destroy his image.. id be pissed too.

soory I dont understand his whining, for christ sake if he just volunteered his DNA along with everyone else at the begging, the results would have spoken for themselves, there would have been no need for rumour to start in the first place,( if he was innocent obviously..).

I think a realistic number would be 25,000 to 30,000, once or twice a year. Right now, in the middle of low season 3,000 to 4,000 would be a good estimation.

The rest is as you say, but people want to believe it is the devil's playground.

Of course, some looking after their own interests would like to see the island transformed into a family destination, but the numbers would drop to 10% and how would that sustain an entire island? They might have considered this before they invested so much money here...

Things may have gotten out of hand; instead of banning parties why not address the real problems. I see very few complaints here about bad things people have actually experienced - it's always 'a friend' or 'know someone' or 'heard of'...

I would think there are around 25'000 to 35'000 for around 6 months of the year.

At low season maybe around 15'000 to 20'000 and during "no season", just under

10'000 people.

Last year the x-mas and new years party was an absolute record with over 80'000

bracelets being sold plus who knows how many people didn't have to pay. The

organisers estimate was around 120'000 people.

Now as for 'friends of friends' or 'know someone', do they not count?

I can say out of many years experience, I "know someone" more or less every time

there is a party who had a problem, ranging from motorbike accidents, lost flip-flops,

lost boyfriends, stolen passports, money or virginity BUT, most of the time, that was

exactly those youngsters who didn't take advice seriously and threw all the caution

in the wind.

Now funny enough, I have customers from all over the world but from the few people

I know who had problems at the parties, the majority are either British or Australians.

Could that be attributed to the British or Australians "Binge Drinking" culture?

I may well be a little out of touch - if those numbers are accurate I am not surprised it has gotten out of control... Cannot imagine where they all fit though as Had Rin beach has not changed size? It's been a few years since I was at one (Dec 24) and it was a big one - about 40k I believe was the estimate. I think it was 2010.

Yes, the 'friends of friends' comment you make is valid, however I am talking about real problems, involving serious assault. Perhaps I should have been clearer and said 'life threatening'. Don't want to argue the point though.

Concur on the binge drinkers - larger than life types often come down to earth with a bang...

Edit: October month was about 3,000 from what I have heard.

There isnt much room left... It takes hours to walk from one end of the beach to the other . Haddrin is now famous for its golden water at sunrise not because of dawn but because the toilets cant cope...

the whole place stinks like a sewer during party nights.

I feel a bit sad as when I came here in 1992 I went straight to Haad Rin beach where there were only two bars and one nightclub. I paid 60 baht for my bungalow right on the beach and got right into the party mood for 6 weeks. Even back then there was danger - 2 foreigners were beheaded but probably never made the headlines. I remember watching a drug deal as a senior policeman watched on.

Even with all the drugs and all the people, a lot less than today I bet, and all the gangster cops, there was very little trouble. Imagine having that kinda party on the Isle of Bute or Aberdeen beach. There would be many serious assaults every night.

2 years later my buddy went there and took a lot of drugs. he appeared on my doorstep in Bangkok saying the mafia were after him. That guy Sean reminds me so much of my mate. They burned down his bungalow, with him inside. He jumped through burning bamboo and of course they wanted 150,000 baht for the damage. They wouldn't give him his passport back so he got a fisherman to take him to Samui. When we went to the british Embassy a couple of days later, some of the 'family' were waiting. He managed to get into the embassy and not let them in and escaped later with a new passport.

These people really hold a grudge against tourists that make them lose face. So do mafia everywhere but..

it's probably a lot safer these days with all the social media police and CCTV. I have a few stories that would shock you. I knew one guy who had just come back from Singapore who boasted about how he had stashed his heroin in the backpack of an English student and was lucky he did as she got nabbed by customs.

Yes, these days Thailand is much safer IMO, but attracts a whole new type of tourist. Cledwyn the Chiropodist from Cardiff would never have come 20 years ago or Donal the Dental technician from Dublin. I would be surprised if Schorch the retired Lars the retired lolipop man from Lichenstein went down to Koh Pa Ngan these days.

your right an unregulated party that size in the uk would attract more trouble than I see at the FMP. sure plenty of trouble exists. but ok on a busy time of the year what is the turn out maybe 100,000 not sure the figures.

So you get half a dozen people sip off some rocks during the night off their tits and have to spend a few grand in the local hospital. maybe 20 or 30 pissed up lads get into a confrontation with some locals and have to do the same after a bottle to the head, Maybe a handful of rapes might occur, no real statistics on it but it wouldnt surprise me but out of 100,000 probably the same number of people will have a fatal car crash within the next 12 month. the most likely problem of all is being pick pocketed by a lady boy but then if you are stupid enough to carry more than you are willing to lose to a FMP you half deserve it.

Let me tell you ill-informed TV readers, this has been a long time in the making, and if true, and enforced, will bring a massive change to the fortunes of many small, hard working business people on KPG. The Thai methodology for starting a new business is to simply imitate an existing one that appears to be successful. Hence the proliferation of parties on the island. Someone thought the FMP would be swell, and I guess it was for considerable years. Then a guy called Jan started the Black moon at greenpeace bungalows... that was about 20 years ago. He had issues and left, leaving a fair amount of time until Mac picked up the BMP. In the time since, we have added the half moon, shivamoon, Loy lay, jungle experience and a host of other more obscure entities, like the pirate moon etc. Each of them has an after party, through the day, in effect doubling the already mind numbing number of parties. The problem is that to expand a party business. all you can do is have more parties. And this became like a cancer.

I might add that the PHA (Phangan hotels association) was set up about 2 years ago to counter the impact the parties were having on the island's marketability. Read between the lines. The common thread is that most business people would be better off without the parties. Business would flourish. Vice and crime would decline (because of the sub-culture that is magnetized to the party scene... hookers pimps pushers, mugs, thugs, buggerers etc). The parties for so long have served a very few people. Needless to say they are not always very nice people, that's why our german mate was shot in the ass... they were not aiming for his ass. The aspiration is to attract a higher calibre of tourist. Families etc. The party environment is totally the antithesis of family friendliness.

No one cares about Hadrin, so they can slash and burn and do what they want... but when they start having mind bending raves in the middle of the village, 200 meters away from the school, keeping everyone awake at night, I think it's fair to say they have gone too far. I could tell you a million stories about this... but can't be bothered. FWIW the FMP is closely tied to the monk. This is easily established fact if you know the families.

Although I cant disagree with what you say but an overall ban is a big shame .

It is only the FMP that is dangerous and many problems arise . There is obviously an issue of day to day life for locals , children at schools being effected by drugged up zombies and loud music. I believe there should be some kind of overall planning involved or Zoning as to where these parties should take place and maybe organized transport for them to avoid the accidents in the morning to counter those issues. Mac's BMP is very close to a school. and so many after parties are probably not so good for local life to live around, particularly as these people are really mashed by the time they leave, but others have carved out niches far out in the jungle away from inconvenience to locals and kids. and IMO makes for better venues than hard to dance on sandy beaches. But then I am getting to old for these big parties as I discovered last time I was there preferring the smaller gatherings at random bar/ parties around the place.

But I would have thought if the FMP is currently unstoppable, more party venues to offer better all month business for small business operators and reduce the pressure or need for FMP. the only way things will change with the FMP is if the party becomes unvogue... I think it is close to that now. too many kids, a lack of quality. someone on a earlier post compared the FMP to the old raves back home . but IMO they are a million miles off. The level of service and quality was way better back then I've never found a party in Thailand that comes close to what we that were lucky enough to grow up in the late 80's early 90's in the uk and across Europe experienced. Fashion comes and goes quickly and can be manipulated easily.. Thats the way forward..

.. The big businesses want shot of the parties because they can make more money from 4 star tourism with families and high budget travellers. but there are dozens of locations like that in Thailand already ,Samui, Phuket, the list goes on . I believe Thailand is on the map as a great destination because there is something for everyone A hedonistic party island isn't everyones cup of tea but dont take it away from those that want to blow off some steam in crazy carefree fashion.. and turn it into just another family resort Island.

Most TVF members wouldn't go to such a party as they'd look out if place amongst all the young ones !! But don't have like to comment on the things they( youngsters ) consider fun and a right of passage!!

Laughable really also considering it doesn't interfere in their daily lives either in Nakhon nowhere waiting for their pension cheques!!

Let's just go one step further and ban all nightclubbing and any sort of social partying shall we? It's not like nobody has ever been assaulted or murdered inside or outside such a location has there ??

Fair enough, Party on!!

But don't expect any sympathy, when the next body or rape is reported!!

It is common knowledge amongst Thai men, that is easy to get sex on the islands, with young girls more or less unconscious from drugs/alcohol!! Plenty of unreported rapes.

Interesting to see posters on other threads condemning the mafiafamilies on the islands, but at the same time are willing to support the same families, all in order to get their fix!!

Yer ban all fun just in case .

Make the women wear long grey trousers and a berka on arrival. and only allow entertainment in designated Michelin star restaurants with strict passport control. fence of all beaches and enforce hotel curfew at dusk, refuse entery to Thailand for all Burmese and anyone under the age of 45 from any western nation. then we should have a trouble free place to relax.. how about that???

I think whatever the reason behind it, this is a really good idea. The full Moon parties are a legend and form the basis of many a backpackers first experience of the crazy wide world outside of their own homeland. 98.5%* of all those that attend the parties have a great time and don't end up being raped or murdered. They pack up their packs next day and wander off elsewhere, never to return, but with a head full of memories of a crazy night on the beach under the full moon in Thailand.

The proliferation of so called "Full Moon Parties" away from Haad Rin Beach was getting ridiculous, and I'm glad they have been stopped. If younglings want to go crazy lets let them do it one day a month in a relatively safe environment, one which can be policed and secured easily enough. Haad Rin is the perfect spot for it..

*(not actual figure just something I made up)

Places other than Had Rin, half-moon, dark-moon etc are simply a chance for locals to try and get another bite at the tourist baht.

They tend to be under policed and less controlled.

In the long-term I don't expect this announcement to change things but I have been wrong before.

Yes, it's good that youngsters can feel free to let their hair down and have their 'days of being wild'. But many of them are ill-prepared for this kind of environment...drinks served in buckets, freely available drugs such as 'E', no parental or other control. I don't want to stop fun but the fun should be safe and sensible. A bit on the edge, sure, but not the out of control scenes reported by those attending these 'raves'.

You are showing your age. I think.... There are many issues you could have pointed out regarding the dangers at a FMP but buckets and drugs such as E are not them , You make it sound so evil, 'E' is widely available everywhere on this planet and is really not harmful to the individual or society , particularly compared to other nasty drugs becoming vogue, and more widely used out here. I have to say I was shocked at the average age of the party goer last time i went there, Mind you is was during the European summer hols so lots of 17 year old gap students . the problem with the FMP is not drugs but the sheer size and the fact that there is no and cannot be any kind of regulation. or security as its completely open . There are way to many businesses cashing in on this monthly event to let anything change.

Personally I would like to see t all the other parties carry on and some how restrict the volume of passengers allowed to enter the island by boat during the 2 or 3 day prior to the FMP . The party was better when it was half the size anyway. now its not about the quality of the party but how much cash can be squeezed out of it... Its a problem with society and greed, typically of life today anywhere.

Cant believe that . It's ass about face, if they bring that rule in on KPG. There are many very well organised and excellent parties scattered all over the island . It's what defines KPG from everywhere else in Thailand People go there because of it . However the FMP is a total nightmare , nothing but trouble. 10's of 1000's of kids now going, all easy victims of the criminal elements that circle like sharks every time it is on, often coming from further a field than KPG itself.

FMP generates an unbelievable amount of money for all concerned local businesses and mafia types etc But if its SAFETY they are worrying about that's the party they should ban. Most the others don't cause much nuisances or danger to anyone. So they are blatantly pretending to care but really only worrying about money at the end of the day. They Probably wouldnt be able to stop the FMP if they wanted anyway, as it has developed a life of it's own with so much momentum it is pretty much an unstoppable event.

I love KPG and love the other parties but will avoid the FMP at all costs.....

No matter the kind of Torture i am receiving, i cannot confess to the crime i did not commit.

Stop smoking that shit it's bad for you.

A statement like that could only have been uttered by someone who has never been tortured. Have you ever felt a 220 volt electrical shock? Well how about 30 of them? Back to back. In your crotch or on your face? The kind of man required to resist a confession under that kind of duress, is simply someone i doubt you are. Please let us know how any times you have been tortured and when you have stuck to your lofty principals.

Are you suggesting these things occurred to the suspects? Understand if you are just arguing the above comment but best I can see the worst torture these two suspects were met with was threats. I would not be surprised at all if they were treated illegally to get the confessions but if true it doesn't make the confessions untrue but rather makes them inadmissible in court. On the other hand, the did in a private meeting with their embassy staff, embassy lawyers and a human rights group confess too while also adding they were abused. The confessions will not make or break this case, the DNA is key along with other evidence putting them in and around the scene at the time and their being in possession of one of the victim's property and the witness who claims they gave him this property to destroy.

My personal belief is they will plead guilty and the recantation of the confession is more of a legal move to remove this from evidence since it may have been obtained illegally. The lawyers also are playing to the public as police do. The more they can make this case a problem for officials, despite any obvious guilt, the better chance they have to get reduced sentences if they plead guilty.

have you ever seen 'strangers in danger', those 2 nutters tried 'water boarding', considered an almost acceptable torture in the West and couldn't stand 5 seconds of it . now amplify that by the threat of something more serious or permanent. It doent take a brain surgeon to figure out torture is a pretty effective way at extracting confessions from the most hardened veteran. all the main evidence was contaminated so it looks like its down to whether or not the DNA match was genuine and not contaminated or planted. my moneys on the fact that with all the other F***ups the evidence of DNA will be questionable at best.

I too really want to know whether the son of headman was ever checked . last I heard he apeared with a lawyer and wanted to sue for defamation or something like that.

They had the DNA samples tested BEFORE they had any real suspects. They were looking for ASIAN suspects on the island. They found two that matched according to what I read. They either have the match or they don't.

As far as the tortured confession, that should be a separate investigation and if wrong-doing then fire and prosecute the guilty. And throw the confession out if that is found.

Then forget all this peripheral BS. Lets get it into court. The DNA match is there or it isn't, that's it!

and if there is a chance some contamination or misdeed was involved in the gathering and analysis of it..

I wouldn't go as far as to say these guys are definitely innocent , Of course there is that possibility they are guilty but everyone deserves a fair trail and the parents need peace of mind that the real culprits have been brought to justice. There have been so many contradictions and changes to the announced investigation, Right now everyone is perfectly in the right to question the case with severe doubt in their minds.

It is beyond me why the Thai authorities wouldn't be able to understand why anybody wouldn't question the result the RTP's 'perfect investigation'.

Even most of us amateur TV readers have spotted a thousand flaws to this case... I am waited with baited breath as to what the Brit police have to say..... and I prey they are objective and hard on the facts not take the diplomatic path...,

So if i put my trip off till towards the end of this month, so as to put me within the 45 days and apply for my re entry and extension at the same time before I go , Is that possible?..or will I need to wait for the extension. Head out to Cambodia where I want to travel to. then stop at the VFS on the way back through BKK will that work? . I am trying to avoid going through BKK having to come back to Phuket Immigration back up to the BKK to apply for the passport then having to do the journey all over again to collect the thing a few weeks later.

Ok it a UK passport and the extension is as I said from a 3 month Non O to a full year multiple entry non O,, based on having children here. I take care of. When applying for a new year visa they only give the 3 months at the embassy outside the country that then gets extended at the Immigration.

I had it many years before but went on to NON B, then last year an ED visa, because I thought it was a nice easy visa to use without tying up all my cash that needs to be shown, but now with all the crack down I've gone back to the non O but have to start from the beginning of the process again...

I need to apply for a year extension to my initial 3 month non 'o' visa which expires at the beginning of December, however I plan to leave the country for a few days later this month. so I will need an exit permit or what ever they are called so I dont lose my current visa. . My passport is also dangerously close to being full once again currently only 2 pages left so I was planning to visit the Embassy whilst travelling through BKK. ( as i live phuket it will save a further trip later ) and get a new passport. which i believe takes some time.

I am confused as to which order I should do things as I not sure how long it takes to apply for a new passport and how it works with transferring visas from one to another. is it a simple thing, taking the 2 passports to immigration or is there more to it?

1.how long will it take to get a new passport

2 how long does it take to get a visa extension? do I have to submit my passport or is it just apply same day, turnaround? how much time should I allow for this process?

3. how to go about transferring visas from one book to another or is it easier to get them directly into a new passport??? Is my old passport valid while I wait for the new one or do they mark it obsolete?

if there is any policy makers reading this post the trick is to Give them something to be proud of and something they don't want to lose.

So to train your officers properly give them a reasonable income with further specialized training and promotion for a job well done,

Make them fully accountable for their actions & advise and dismissal for anyone not doing their job properly and conscientiously plus criminal proceedings against anyone extorting bribes ort any one taking advantage of there position for financial gain or showing bias or prejudice against anyone for any reason .

Then have some kind of ombudsman or at least a compliant line that victims can safely use to report unfair treatment or unprofessional conduct. . even if there no solid evidence against an officer if a patter n emerges against one particular officer its easy to start keeping a close eye on that fellow and perhaps watch how much cash he is waiving around in his free time...

its Not complicated....

I have little doubt police may have roughed these guys up or at minimum deprived them of some of their rights but have nearly no doubt (only doubt is the court has not ruled yet) they have the right guys. Also have no doubt if these suspects were Thai (especially rich) that many of the posters outraged over the abuse of their rights would be screaming for more of their blood.

Police shouldn't abuse any suspects or anyone even rapist murderers but the evidence is just beyond overwhelming against these guys and their DNA samples can be got again by these lawyers and human rights people they confessed and then compared to the DNA results from the crime scene.

The way this is going to go down seems fairly predictable ..... these guys are going to please guilty and do everything in their power to downplay how monstrous their behavior was by saying they were drunk, didn't mean to kill them and so on in hopes of not receiving the death penalty

That sound a bit lame, you reckon peoples view of the murder and the offenders would differer depending on the suspects nationality . , So everyone on TV who voices concern about how the investigation has been conducted is bias against Thais????? that make little sense to me. and I doubt even an uneducated Burmese worker expects to be let off light with the excuses "we were probable a bit drunk"

whether this is a true confession or not, it doesn't excuse the way the investigation has been conducted and the conflicting versions that have consistently arisen and the doubts that causes, now it has to verified by the appropriate agencies, UK experts etc . Even a confession now could be tainted from treats of further abuse to them or family or perhaps they have just thrown the towel in and have given up the will to go on

Maybe they did do it, but the parents of the victims and the public will never be able to fully accept or believe justice was done, not to mention the possibility that some innocent people suffer for the benefit of some nasty piece of work who may still be free to commit further crimes and if that is the case will feel even more invincible than before.. ,, so it is in every-bodies interest to just make sure 100%, cross check and verify every little detail. not just take the word of the authorities .

might have been a case of here Son how you fancy some of this, shes really good in bed, honest.. you will ok . Phwew!!!

Wow - the pics might say it all.......

god you're right!!! its like they were made from the same giant block of play doe. and sculptured by kicking it into shape.

It's all over boys.

The police even though they made a few gaffs have done an excellent job despite all the bad press and at sometimes hysterical statements made on this thread.

Quite frankly some of you need professional help back in your home countries because you clearly suffer from delusions of grandeur of being some type of crack detectives .

The sad part about all those nasty thread you guys have written is that you honestly believe yourselves and you rants.

The case is being wrapped up now and these guys are guilty and a job well done to all concerned in bringing these scumbags to justice.

What an absolute braindead idiot, and i see the equally retarded johnthailandjohn recommended it.

As you cannot accept the many gaping holes in this investigation, i seriously hop one day you get arrested for something you didnt do in Thailand.

You love Thailand for cheap Isaan women and not much else.

PS The fact you say they are guilty shows how retarded and not overly bright you are, they do have to have a day in court yet.

Someone who likes to call others brain dead (note it's two words) for holding a different view quite happily slags off Isaan women showing his own intellectual abilities.

The case has been handled very badly regarding communication, media management and the usual every man and his dog getting involved. That means none of us know what the true story is and will have to wait until all the evidence is presented in court and reported on.

Of course the conspiracy theorists and those who have decided it must be influential Thais who are hiso connected mafia, probably related to Suthep, won't accept any solution other than the one they have already decided on. And they've accomplished all this without even leaving their keyboard. Their measure of the reality of a story is if it agrees with their view,

oh boys your as bad as each other you need your heads knocking together

While the BIB may not have the greatest reputation around neither does Drummond. Looks like he will be fleeing Thailand very soon and can only hope that will mean an end to his personal investigative stories of people he is in legal battles with. At one time the guy had some relevance. He used to be an active poster here too but appears he has wore at his welcome on TV too.

I think most of his legal battles are from unhappy criminals he has exposed that hide behind a corporate image . and the court cases in Thailand can be dragged out so long it serves the crims interests to keep throwing bricks over the wall in an attempt discredit and is just one form of intimidation. I dont know all his cases but I know a few and he is dealling with many ass holes and he himself seems to be very cautious about writing anything without good justification or evidence. a least from the few coresspondance close friends of mine have had with him

It's okay. Let British police take DNA from the suspects and compare it to DNA evidence found on the victims. This will confirm Thai police findings and clear up all this doubt.

Surely the Thai police would welcome such involvement?

Can it be verified that the semen sent for analysis was actually extracted from the deceased, Can authorities still gain more sample from the body or was it cleaned up after the Thai autopsy? . just wondering, no accusation meant. I mean what does it mean if a prosecutor looks at 2 pieces of paper with information saying sample A matched sample B.

just hope everything is properly looked into if they are the culprits fair play but doesn't look good from all the conflicting stories, logic and back ground noise I've heard

why is there no congruence in any of the stories. Now it said these burmese stole the victims phone and money, when previously it had been said the police have ruled out robbery as a motive as the victims possession were still on the them..

I feel sick

i think what i want to know is if they were Burmese from the bar the victims were from they must have been among the 1st suspspets interrogated. had finger prints DNA ..SO

An unplanned spur of the moment rape and kill there would have been so much evidence at hand, foot prints, fingerprints on the murder weapon , clothing fibres or body hair on the victims, maybe scratches on the killer from fighting back as well as all the semen . the killers would have some blood somewhere on clothing and they would have had to have been real pro's (MI6 standard) if they could act 100% calmly and normally ithough an interrogation a day later . it would be impossible for them to evade suspicion from day one with so much evidence against them, yet the BRB were running around looking for the westerner friends of the victim and so many other seemingly unlikely dead ends leads and a few potentially realistic ones to.

Can we please get an answer to these questions so I can feel a little assured the right people are being brought to justice.

So why werent they picked up earlier from the dna tests that were performed on the whole island that was said to have come up with no matches,. and how come the no farang Dna on the sperm found. oh god so many holes here .. unless the police were telling porkies the whole time and had the case buttoned up from day one.