BradFinch
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Posts posted by BradFinch
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16 hours ago, onebir said:
think the ASQ hotels do have gyms? But who knows whether they manage to keep them Covid free. So another precaution would be to acclimatize oneself to some kind of exercise routine that can be done with no/portable equipment and limited space. (Quite a few of the Scott Sonnon/Tacfit programs fit the bill.)
A valid point. If I recall, that French woman in Samui who ended up positive was staying in a hotel where they found the virus on gym equipment. I'm not sure I'd want to have a vigorous workout in a room that reeked of rubber, for that matter. Maybe bring a workout mat or ask your intended ASQ about it.
9 hours ago, nchuckle said:It would be good to have some more feedback of ratings of various ASQ hotels members have experienced. Unless I’ve missed it I’ve seen little so far. Is this maybe something TV could consider instigating.
I have indeed seen an ASQ review thread around here. Sorry can't seem to dig it up at the moment. Anyone?
I stayed in this one place in Singapore some years back where they gassed the hallways with this vile smokey stuff to kill the bugs. I found out when I opened the door to my bedroom and noticed that it had saturated the entire rest of the condo. Luckily, I was prepared for such idiocy, so I whipped on my pesticide mask and darted outside. Just imagine if "outside" hadn't been an option, as the smoke was rapidly flowing into the bedroom...
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QuoteOP, you're American aren't you? I can't imagine any other nationality being so concerned/paranoid about all the things you listed. Not a criticism, just an observation.
Hotel rooms, usually, are used year-round by hundreds of different people who, somehow, manage to survive without going through all the preparations that you list.
My nationality isn't particularly relevant, but I do understand that most people think my suggestions are ridiculous. I think that's because they're not appreciating the real constraints of the problem and the very long tails of the distribution of possible outcomes. In a normal context, my advice would be of benefit to anyone seeking to safeguard their health over the long term, but this is not a normal context. This isn't about keeping your cholesterol in line or lowering your cancer risks over the years. It's about avoiding acute and profound health threats due to toxic air, water, and food -- and without much exercise. In the hit documentary "Supersize Me", fast food and a sedentary lifestyle brought Morgan Spurlock to the brink of a heart attack within weeks. And he was rather young and healthy. You can also google for reports of injury or death from excessive pesticide use in hotel rooms. It's rare, but personally I wouldn't want to feel like vomiting from pesticide exposure while my liver gets hammered. Been there, done that.
My point isn't that these issues are likely to arise in any particular ASQ. But who knows? All we have to go on is others' reports, which answer some but not all of these questions for a subset of the hotels, based on one person's experience with one particular room. And then, we've seen the lawsuits crop up for those who leave negative reviews, so the whole guest feedback system has been somewhat compromised. It's certainly useful data, but it pays to be cautious when you're locked in.
My advice is just intended as cheap insurance. Take it or leave it.
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@G Rex "Only the paranoid survive." -- Andy Grove, former CEO, Intel Corporation.
But thanks for yet another positive review of Movenpick, and the first one I've read that confirms no stench or funny water. Encouraging!
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@onebir High-VOC paints are still very much a problem in many countries, as is the excessive use of pesticides in guestrooms. I was once forced to choose between nauseating pesticide odors and the PM10 raging outside. (I chose the third option, which was to check out after only minutes in the room -- not an option in ASQ.) As @Crossy pointed out, we should expect to get what we pay for, generally speaking. However, it's important to remember that the ASQ certification is all about sanitation, as opposed to the satisfaction of life's basic needs. With rare exception, real estate developers seem to be using the same old "toxic stench" finishing materials, so we shouldn't expect much different statistics from the hotels, ASQ or not. The point is simply that ASQ is a hard commitment, so research is paramount.
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I've never actually considered myself a prepper. But I've stayed in some horrible accommodations with all manner of pollution being squirted into the premises at random times.
Caveat emptor.
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I've been doing a lot of ASQ planning recently, so I figured I ought to assist the community by posting some of my thoughts. Surviving ASQ is, first and foremost, a matter of meeting one's needs. Luxuries are nice, but are of no use if the former are unmet. What most of us would regard as mere annoyances can literally become a matter of survival when locked inside a room -- especially, as in this case, if one has no chance to inspect the property before signing a contract. Let's start with the basics. Feel free to add your thoughts.
AIR
* The room should be free of toxic vapors from paint, mold, pesticides, plastic, particle board (formaldehyde), floor and furniture varnishes, lubricants, etc. (Carpeting is not allowed according to ASQ rules, so at least you don't need to worry about adhesive odors.) Ideally, it should be free of antiseptic odors as well, although a temporary spike during cleaning day will have to be tolerated under the circumstances.
* Many hotels and condos use "L pipe" drains in the bathroom floor, as opposed to proper "J pipes". That means that sewage odors can fill the entire room if the windows are kept closed (or can't open). While L pipes would normally be a deal killer in a quarantine situation, hope is not lost! Just bring some rubber or plastic drain covering discs so you can block the odors. If you forget, then improvise by covering them with trash cans or whatever. Just make sure to open them if there's water that needs to be drained from the floor!
* A balcony helps in the sense that it provides an ongoing source of outdoor air, provided that the pollution level is low enough when one wishes to go outside. That said, it's not necessarily worth the money if the indoor air is good enough.
* It would be a good idea to buy the largest air conditioner HEPA filter (those big rectangular ones reinforced with metal mesh) that you can find. 3M and Honeywell make them, for instance. Make sure to buy the highest rated type which removes smoke. Fold it up and put it in your luggage. That way, you have a giant piece of filter material to tape over the air conditioner intake if it turns out that the room air is moldy or smokey. Make sure to bring some wide painter's tape (the blue stuff) so you can affix it over the intake if you need to. (This could be difficult or impossible with split type ACs, which have their curved intakes on top, so inquire before you sign.)
* If the hallway is leaching vapors, smells of garbage, or is just full of smokey air, you can cram a towel into the bottom gap and stop most of it from entering your room.
* In addition to your COVID mask supply, bring a fullon pesticide mask in case of an airpocalypse in the hotel. (I once stayed at a place where guys in hazmat suits suddenly showed up in the lobby and mosquito fogged all the hallways without warning the guests. Fortunately, it's not on the ASQ list!)
WATER
* You're going to be drinking out of plastic water bottles throughout your stay. You should inquire as to what brand they provide, in light of which brands you know and trust. Most, but not all, are produced by reverse osmosis, which results in safe water but removes virtually all the minerals, so you should bring whatever electrolytes you'll need; don't assume that you can just replenish them from the food.* How much water will your hotel provide, and how often? What will it cost you if you need more?
* You have no idea what quality (or even color) of water is going to emerge from your shower or what contaminants might have leaked into it on the way from the water plant. This can also vary considerably, for example, during a cleaning of the roof water tank with bleach etc. You can buy an inline water filter with carbon and ion exchange beads for $30 on Amazon (e.g. Baulia SF800 or Aquasana shower filter). Pack it in your checked bag because it might cause security issues with your carryon. When you arrive, install it between the showerhead and its supply line. Don't forget to take it with you when you leave.
FOOD
* Does your hotel offer pickups from 7/11, Family Mart, etc.? Can your friends drop off any food for you? Does this matter to you?* Quantity certainly does matter. Most people seem to want lots of food, but quarantine involves a relatively low caloric requirement, so it makes some sense to turn the experience into an exercise in protracted caloric restriction for better health. (This will also make you quite tired, which is good because you'll sleep through more of it instead of going stir-crazy.) To each his own. Just make sure the hotel provides the type and quantity that you require.
* These days, some airlines are giving deals on baggage fees because their aircraft are lightly loaded, so you might take advantage of that in order to bring a couple weeks of food along with you. That way, you're safe even if the hotel food turns out to be unappetizing, unsanitary, or toxic. Think in terms of canned, freeze-dried, or pouched items.
* Bring whatever vitamins and supplements you need, just as you would your prescription drugs; don't assume that your food will supply you with all of them.
* A massive olive oil supply can provide calories and help to thwart the negative cardiovascular effects of a sedentary lifestyle and a diet of processed food. Bring some in your checked luggage, but just remember to cushion it against inevitable impacts (and don't bring it in glass bottles). Bag it in plastic just in case it leaks.
* This is one of the few cases in which it really might make sense to buy expensive "green powder" made from dried raw fruits and veggies. Mix it into your meal so you don't miss out on your phytochemicals.
* Bring a large quantity of turmeric powder. It will reduce your odds of contracting colon cancer from eating dodgy food loaded fried in seed oils. (This wouldn't be a bad habit to keep indefintely, for that matter.)
SLEEP
* Bring comfortable earplugs in case of noise pollution issues.
* Likewise, bring a sleep mask to protect from light intrusion.
* Practice sleeping with both of the above before you leave, checking for acceptable comfort and thermal properties. There's nothing worse than being locked in a room and unable to sleep.
EXERCISE
* ASQs have widely varying policies on this in terms of when it's first allowed, how often it's allowed, for how long, and where it's allowed to occur. Make sure that your needs are met before sealing the deal. How's the outdoor air quality likely to be? Will the gym smell like rubber or plastic? Do you care?
CONNECTIVITY
* For most of us who have been locked out of Thailand, our old mobile numbers have long ago expired. Unfortunately, you also can't assume that you'll be able to buy a new SIM on arrival, either, due to the pandemic. Therefore, if you end up stuck in a room with little or no connectivity, you may come to regret it. Do your research.
* Do you care what TV or movie offerings they have?
VIEW
* Do you need a window or balcony with a view? What assurance do you have that the view from your room will match the one in your head? This may sound like a trivial consideration, but after 2 weeks in quarantine, it might start to matter.
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Thanks for the report. Assuming that you also took off from the UK, then that's encouraging, considering that the country seems to be having a second wave and has had a high caseload for months now. It indicates that the Thai government is indeed confident in their ability to keep virus importation down to a negligible level. That should in fact be possible under the current testing and quarantine protocol. They could also make all countries essentially equal-risk merely by making the number of quarantine days depend on its overall infection rate in the country of origin. Granted, with 15 nights and 3 tests, the importation risk probably already low enough that this is unnecessary, regardless of the country of origin.
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Glad to hear it! What country are you from (citizenship and residence if different), if you don't mind?
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If you get approved or actually enter Thailand on an Elite visa, or if you have firsthand knowledge of someone who did, please post as much info as possible so we can get a better statistical picture of all the relevant variables. Of course there are really several major steps here:
1. Get an Elite membership if you don't already have one. This is actually unrelated to the topic of this thread, which is about Elite visas.
2. Get approval from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
3. Get the Certificate of Entry of from the Embassy. Typically, this would be done in one's country of citizenship, but in some cases it might occur via a foreign embassy. Both cases are interesting. For instance, is there some (dis)advantage to being a Japanese citizen in the UK, or a UK citizen in Japan? Does it matter if you're a citizen of the country in which you applied, as opposed to merely a resident or tourist?
4. Actually arrive in Thailand. This isn't necessarily guaranteed because obviously it depends on obtaining the relevant medical clearances within a tight time window.
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There are a lot of updates in this new thread, so I will close this one and let people continue to discuss over there:
https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1185760-elite-visa-problems
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The 90-day reporting is only for people seeking to remain in Thailand for at least that long. In Bangkok and possibly elsewhere, you can submit your paperwork to Thailand Elite rather than visiting immigration personally. If you leave before 90 days, then the clock restarts the next time you enter.
It typically takes 2 or 3 months to get approved. If you're from a country where the virus is under control, then this suggests that you could enter early next year, potentially even before existing Elite holders in countries where it's rampant.
To anyone who manages to enter while the pandemic is still festering, please leave a note here:
https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1184274-has-anyone-entered-on-an-elite-visa-after-july-2020
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I finally have some more info on this: thus far, only applications from Australia, China, Germany, Japan, and Singapore have been approved by the Ministry. With about 11,000 Elite members globally, plus however many have joined recently but are waiting for visa affixation, there are surely upwards of 50 countries represented, and probably many more. It's therefore quite clear that infection count is the key here, even though I'm not aware of any stated policy for the Elite visa, as opposed to the STV.
This policy does make some sense from a health policy standpoint, although all countries of origin could be made equally safe simply by setting the number of quarantine days on a country-by-country basis (because the risk of false negatives decays exponentially with each passing day for a true positive case). There is no indication that this will happen, however, so my default assumption is that if you want to know when you'll get approved, then try to estimate how long it will take before your country's own virus situation is at least as good as the worst of those five, plus some time for the Ministry to take note and add it to the list. Watching the news suggests to me that you could be waiting a year depending on where you live. Granted, the policy could change with the rapid testing now being installed in Thai airports, but I believe those will be used for a travel bubble at some point, as opposed to allowing people from anywhere to arrive anytime (as per IATA's recent proposal).
One theoretical option is to relocate to an intermediate country (if you can even get there), then apply for TEMQ from your new place of residence there. Apart from putting your TEMQ application to the back of the line, it shouldn't hurt to move from a country with a high number of infections to one with a low number. Of course, your visa there might expire before you're able to return to Thailand.
So unless you're from one of those countries, or somewhere like New Zealand or South Korea, I think it's time for Plan B.
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It actually doesn't matter to me, as an Elite member, where exactly my visa stands in the priority ranking. What matters, ultimately, is latency from application to quarantine. Right now, I have exactly zero data points from which to estimate this.
When (if) I finally succeed, I'll come back here and post an update, so click "follow" if it matters to you. Meanwhile, hopefully, somebody from somewhere will show up and beat me to the punch, thereby proving that it's at least possible.
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problemfarang: adding to jackdd's comment, you can get a 20-year visa for 1M baht (chunked into 1-year stamps):
https://thailandelite.com/at-your-service/card/elite-superiority-extension-membership
If your friend is planning on using it to get back to Thailand ASAP, then monitor this thread for updates on successful entries and associated latencies:
https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1184274-has-anyone-entered-on-an-elite-visa-after-july-2020
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11 hours ago, farmerjo said:
Sounds like you would be better off to go through your embassy and state what type of visa it is on the COE application.
It would make a lot of sense to visit the embassy in order to sort things out, but you can't because the embassy COE comes after the Ministry of Foreign Affairs approval. ukrules posted this flowchart of the process over here.
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4 hours ago, ukrules said:I wonder why the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Thailand are not doing their job and approving these applications in a proper and timely manner?
I plead total ignorance on this one. I'm not sure we know where the real bottleneck is, and whether it's there by accident or construction. It would be nice to have some idea, though, so we can plan accordingly.
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Quote6 hours ago, JHicks said:
This question has come up a few times but there have been no reports of people entering on the elite scheme. In fact, what you've just posted is probably the most detailed info we've had. There was a guy who posted a few days ago saying that he had been told by Thai Elite and the London embassy that if he applied the process would take 60-90 days, but he wasn't a current member and it wasn't clear whether the 60-90 days was just the application process or whether he'd been told he'd actually get in to Thailand within 90 days.
We do know that existing members who have been stranded out of Thailand the longest are going to be given priority, but how that works out in practice is anyone's guess.
However long it's taking now (if it's even happening now), the new visa is bound to shake things up because there will be more competition for ASQ places.
The 60-90 days sounds to me like a translation of the "8 to 12 weeks" that's given as a standard estimate for signup latency (and I believe is accurate). I don't expect that Thai Elite would have enough statistical backing, given no known entries, of such a time period for approval from the Ministry, not to mention the rest of the process. At least, it's useful to know that we have yet to read of anyone on this visa actually arriving.
It seems to me that the number of ASQs is growing at a rate of about 6 a week. That's a lot of rooms, but it's linear growth. It can't possibly keep pace with the exponential growth in applications. I don't see this as something that can be accelerated much, either, considering the very handson certification process that has to happen on the hotel premises.
A travel bubble would significantly alleviate the ASQ burden, but I see no indication of a deal on that front anytime soon.
Has anyone with an existing Elite visa gotten the initial Ministry application approved?
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Now it appears that they are about to open TEMQ along with the STV and under similar terms.
I would say this happened long ago, specifically on August 19, but let me know if I'm missing something here: "We, Thailand Privilege Card Co., Ltd. would like to announce that we have received permission from Thailand’s Center for Covid-19 Situation Administration (CCSA) for Thailand Elite members stranded abroad to be able to return to Thailand for long stay. Members will be approved under conditions and procedures of CCSA, Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Ministry of Public Health. Under the program called Thailand Elite Members Quarantine (TEMQ), members who have been stranded abroad for a long period will be able to travel back to Thailand using Elite Visa along with few other documents required by Thai government. It is also important to give full cooperation to the government to prevent the second outbreak of COVID-19. Therefore, the process of 14 days quarantine is a must."
QuoteWhat kind of timescale are we talking about here? Have you been waiting for weeks or just days?
Weeks.
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And if so, where are you from? Any other details?
I've been on an Elite visa since well before the pandemic. I've applied to return under the TEMQ (Thailand Elite Members' Quarantine) program. The first step after submitting the application is to wait for Thailand Elite to submit the application to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for approval. This application includes basic identification including visa number, along with 5 choices of ASQ hotel. It's not clear to me whether the Ministry or Thailand Elite actually does the ASQ booking, but in any event, I just have to wait for an approval or denial in my inbox. Easy enough.
What I'm wondering is: how long is the wait? (I'm referring to the initial reply from the Ministry. After that, there are still plane tickets, fit-to-fly cert, insurance, etc.) The larger question is: has anyone entered on an Elite visa (not merely with an Elite membership, but on some other visa)? I'm unable to obtain any further information, so I'm just assuming that at some point I'll get an official reply, even if only to deny my application.
It's been quite a while since I applied under TEMQ. There are a million possible reasons for the delay: the announcement of the STV overwhelming the Ministry (from people with deep social ties to Thailand -- not so much actual tourists), admission discrimination by country COVID rate (instead of just demanding longer quarantine from riskier countries), the 250-per-month quota on Elite admissions (where "quota" might have been a mistranslation of "estimate"?). Nevertheless, I have zero insight as to which, if any, of these reasons is accurate.
I have money to spend in Thailand in order to meet my needs and support my lifestyle, while providing income to the locals in a time of serious need. I have no problem with the requirements of the deal, including all the COVID testing and quarantine. However, with absolutely no insight whatsoever as far as when (or in what year!) I might reenter, I've begun to look at alternative places to spend my money. Hopefully, this is all an overreaction on my part, and I will receive preliminary approval tomorrow. But in the meantime, creating Plan B has become necessary.
It probably deserves another entire thread, but those of you with no other means to return to loved ones in Thailand might consider countries where you can meet up with them and be assured that everyone involved is able to stay long term with no significant risk of visa hassles, or at least a situation where you can border bounce indefinitely. Hint: go to Wikipedia and search for "visa policy of X" where X is a country on your list. Don't worry, it won't take very long because there are likely very few countries where both of you can go! That's all I'll say about that, unless someone wants to start an "Alternative places to meet Thai partners" thread.
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ASQ survival tactics
in COVID-19 Coronavirus
Posted
Sorry, I don't. I also don't think it matters what the requirements are, so much as how they're implemented. Based on the ASQ reviews I've read thus far, it seems clear that sanitation is rigorously enforced. (Hopefully some of that will stick even after the pandemic.) But otherwise, there seems to be a wide variety of support for quality of life while in isolation.