junkofdavid2

It might not be a reliable poll to represent the whole slew of farangs in LOS,

but it actually is RELIABLE, I think, in representing the active members of Thaivisa.

However, to represent the whole slew of Farangs, active Thaivisa members might not be a good poll "sample" because I would guess that active Thaivisa members are much more well informed than the general farang population regarding visa matters.

In order to help get a better picture, we should take a tally of how many of the farangs/non-thais we know (who are/not active thaivisa members) are either leaving or staying.

We can answer that in the other Post "Has the Exodus Really Begun?"

But continue to also vote in this particular post so we also know a good figure representing active thaivisa members.

Cheers

Hi,

As for the Police Clearance requirement for TEACHERS applying for B visa... it seems from the posts that this is only happening in Laos.

Can anyone confirm if this is being required for B visas in any other embassies in the region ? (other than Laos).

Friend of mine will be teaching in LOS around March so he needs to get his B visa soon.

Cheers

Oh, and for his B visa, how can he get police clearance from Thai Police if he isn't even in Thailand yet to begin with??? That's crazy.

Hi,

As for the Police Clearance requirement for TEACHERS applying for B visa... it seems from the posts that this is only happening in Laos.

Can anyone confirm if this is being required for B visas in any other embassies in the region ? (other than Laos).

Friend of mine will be teaching in LOS around March so he needs to get his B visa soon.

Cheers

I agree Tropo - most people reading this board wants to know and understand the rules - and abide by them(mostly). I have met many people who are oblivious to the rules (be it old or new rules) and are in for a bad surprise at their next visa run. CHeers!

Agree. Some Filipinos who I talked to don't even seem to WANT to know the new rules. Even worse, they wait for some "favorable" rumor to come around (such as that the new rules "won't push thru") and then use that favorable rumor to give themselves "peace of mind" to continue on with what they're doing.

Similar to the "being in denial" thing. Sad.

That’s the general assumption. Sunbelt is on vacation – Lopburi, I believe, mentioned it – until January 7 or thereabouts.

--

Maestro

Yup, I heard Greg's on vacation in the U.S.

...mandatory 800,000 Baht in the bank. It is in a "savings account" that does not bear Interest, because we are Farang "of course".

Name and shame the bank that does not pay you interest because you are a foreigner.

Some banks misinterpret the regulation that requires a distinction between resident and non-resident accounts. They erroneously make a distinction between Thai and foreign nationals. The lady at the Bank of Ayudhya branch where I opened my savings account a month ago told me three weeks later that my account will get no interest. I shall see in January if this is true (she already was wrong on another point, the Foreign Exchange Transaction Form) and if I really get no interest I shall move my money to the Siam Commercial Bank.

--

Maestro

I'm legal coz i have a WP and 1 year multi B. However, when I wasn't legal yet, I easily opened an account at Kasikorn Bank, and my bankbook shows that I've been earning interest ever since!

What banker gives this baloney of no interest because you're farang?

Or is it because I'm Asian and I have same skin color as Thai-chinese that I'm "exempt" from this "anti Farang Law"?

sweet jesus man! what bank is that?

I don't see how it can affect that many people.

It's not that hard and certainly not impossible to be legal!

In my opinion two groups are hit unjustified, first being the under 50's unmarried people whom they have taken away the 3 million Baht investment extension.

The second group would be the under 50 married people, who now actually need a certified regular income, as opposed to the 400,000 Baht on the bank before!

I thought this was "grandfathered'? Meaning that those who used to show the 400000thb before October for the extension may still go on under this rule.The certified income is for those who wish to extend their Type O and are under 50 , after the October rule came in place.

Please correct me if i am wrong .....but this is how i understood it,

rcm

Not a pomlem at all

Not affected. Gotta 1 year B visa, multiple entry.

junkofdavid2,

You are generalising a bit by using the term 'asians' .Be more specific.Japanese,korean,fillipinos,thais,laotian etc etc

Asians from certain(poor) countries might have a hard time getting in certain western nations(not mine tho..the UK).Thats because they are poor and can't spend that much money and then there is the chance that they won't <deleted> leave! Those that have the money will be let in.There is just to much evidence showing us that rich asians can get into western nations with no trouble at all.For example,the Japanese.You know why? because they are rich,they will spend lots of money and then they will go home and maybe return for another holiday the next year.

Now farangs in thailand,ohh they don't spend any money at all.Just take take take where farangs are concerned.I didn't really spend upward of $9k of my own money this year in SEA.Tourism doesn't really account for for 10% (or more?) of Thailands GDP....

Being serious,about wealthy asians walking into the west..

Please read,

http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2004_4t...JapanVegas.html

http://www.tourism.jp/english/statistics/outbound/

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TRAVEL/11/20/austr...reut/index.html

"CANBERRA, Australia (Reuters) -- Australia is hoping to lure WEALTHY ASIAN TOURISTS and other upmarket travellers with a major campaign to help its tourism industry overcome the fear of terrorism and effects of the SARS virus and Iraq war. "

Its pretty simple,if you have money to spend.Our Goverments will want you to come.If you don't.Some western goverments will be wary of you.

I can't help but feel this is just another asian rant,you know chip on the shoulder thing..ahem.Your not letting us in ,just because were oriental etc...

I have no doubt that western countries want "rich Asians" (okay Southeast Asians aside from Singapore) to come to your countries.

What I am talking about is the process which these rich Southeast Asians have to go through just to "prove" that they're "one of the few" rich ones.

Complaining about that? Nope. Just pointing out that this "process" is now similar to what Farangs have to go through starting January in order to also "prove" that they are "legit" farangs and not the "non-legit" farangs.

Lastly, I think you misunderstood the post a bit. Rich and poor Asians is different from rich and poor Asian countries.

In trying to lure, as you say, rich Asians, western countries relaxed rules on rich Asian countries such as, as you say, Japan. However, if you look at the visa application process which "rich Asians from poor Asian countries" have to go through, you will see that western countries are not luring these rich Asians at all (the rich Asians from poor Asian countries)

Actually I have a Non-immigrant B Visa. This will run out beginning of January. I didn't work, but had some Education. As I will continue my Education for 6 more Month, after that I will start to work with a Workpermit, I want a new Non-immigrant B Visa for one year, multiple entries. I have the proper Paperwork for a new Visa, but I don't want to go back to Switzerland to aply. Just to cold there in the Moment and a long trip too. Rater I would prefer to visit some Friends in Australia and aply in Brisbane for my new Visa?

Can somebody in the known tell me if that is possible, or should I better send of a email to the Consulate there, do they answer emails? I don't want to wait two weeks, just to find out they will not answer

Until very recently, it used to be possible to VERY EASILY get a 1 year multiple B visa in Australia with complte documents prepared by Sunbelt, even if you're not Australian.

I'm not sure now with the current and sudden "strictness".

guys,

right i have just been informed by my laywer that as 1 year multiple entry visas are now being refused in asia i have to attend my local immigration office on koh samui and pay 5000 baht every month for a 1 month extension of stay on my work permit! <deleted>???!

apparently samui will only offer a 1 month extension of stay to work permit holders from now on and the costs are broken down as 3500 baht tax and 1500 national insurance. has anybody been to the samui imm office lately to extend their work permits or can confirm/dispute this? i was under the impression that once i had my work permit i would be getting a 1 year extension of stay. is this true?

fyi i have a single entry non imm b and my work permit is "in the post/being processed".

5,000 a month is the same as 15,000 every 3 months.

That's about the same amount you'd spend to fly to Singapore every 3 months (with your WP) to get your Single Entry B visa renewed.

I'd rather spend on that instead of paying it to immigration.

However, you said 3500 was in tax. Yes, in order to get your work permit renewed "smoothly", you do need to declare a salary of about 50,000 a month (if you're white), and the INCOME tax on that might be about 3,500 per month (check with your accountant for exact amount).

Since I'm not white (I"m Asian), I only need to declare a salary of about 35,000, for which I'll pay around 1,900 a month in taxes. So 3,500 seems about right for someone earning 50,000, but I may be wrong. Clarify with your lawyer if the 3,500 tax pertains to income tax or to some other "tax".

Any other posters may feel free to correct me if I"m wrong... I'm not a lawyer but that's how I understood it from mine.

Cheers,

David

When I newly got assigned here, I had 2 Thai staff and with the same problem. I tried (patiently) for months to correct the situation, but to know avail.

I eventually got rid of them, and then I did ALL THE WORK MY SELF.

Do you know what? My workload increased by only 20%, but my STRESS DECREASED by 80%.

Good trade off don't you think?

Take note. We were 3 in the company. I got rid of 2. My workload should triple right? Well, it only increased by 20%!

That's how inutil and useless they were!!! 2 out of the 3 people (the 2 Thais) were only contributing 20 points of work, and the boss (me) was contributing 100 points of work!

(Not to mention, my sales increased too because I could now go out "on the field" and make sales calls myself, instead of staying in the office trying to "whip" them in to shape and prevent the female one from just chatting on MSN the whole day. As for the male employee who was supposed to be "on the field", I can't help but wonder now what he was doing "on the field" before I started making the sales calls myself).

As for the comment earlier that Filipinos would be better... Well, they CAN be better but you have to pick them well.

I don't mean to be elitist or racist here but unfortunately, it's a big factor with Filipinos. They are divided into lower and upper classed Filipinos.

You can usually tell the level of education by the type of English they speak. The upper classed educated ones have an English accent which is either neutral and slightly American if not completely American.

The lower educated ones either have a thick Filipino accent or a "fake" American accent (meaning they try too hard and over-exaggerate the American accent, and it's not natural).

What is the connection? If you hire the lower classed ones in "groups", they can tend to sometimes act "union-like" and "band together" to fight the boss for higher pay etc.

One of the main reasons why many multi-national factories uprooted from the PHilippines (despite english speaking labor) and relocated to other parts of Asia was because of the culture of labor unrest, protests, strikes, etc.... and they were much more "militant" than people from other southeast asian countries.

Just be careful.

Cheers,

D

The WP must be linked to a company because you can only get them here

If you use them after your contract is terminated or do not give them back to the authorities you are breaking the law......and it will have consequences for a new workpermit

Up to you

J

Well, I already have a job, and am looking for another (hopefully part-time) to add- on to the same work permit booklet without quitting my current job. My lawyer (Sunbelt) says I can do this.

I never had any intention of quitting and then "illegally holding" on to the WP booklet of my "former" job.

What Sunbelt also said is that if I got my one year Multi B visa from an embassy abroad (and i did not merely extend a 90-day to a 1-year by going to immigration), then the same Multi B can be used for other jobs.

Hope they're correct...

Cheers,

D

Hi, I have a 1 year Multi Entry B visa, and the one year was issued by a Thai embassy abroad and not by immigration. Thus, this same B visa can be used for any other jobs other than my original company. I also have a Work Permit already.

Are you sure about this? My understanding was that the visa and WP where job/company linked and that you could only do one thing for one company at a time. If you change a company then you lose the WP and in many cases the Visa as well.

Yup, sure I'm sure. It depends on how you get your 1 year Multiple entry. If you get a 90 day B visa from an embassy abroad and then use your work permit to change to a 1 year by going to immigration inside thailand, then the 1 year visa and the Work Permit are linked.

However, if you get the full 1 year B visa from a Thai Embassy abroad (as in my case), then the one year visa is not linked to my WP and I can use it for other jobs easily.

Cheers,

David

Even with our "complete documents" and proof that we are only going to visit your countries, your embassies deny us outright. We just take it with a grain of salt, accept that it's "your" country's "right and prerogative", and accept and admit that many of our fellow Asians decide to overstay in your countries to find illegal work, ... and so we just accept the USA visa denial.

Despite this, I've never heard of Farangs complaining that legitimate Asian tourists have a hard time getting visas in the West.

While I agree with your post. I think you didn't listen hard enough. I know of several Frenchmen who filed complaints after their wives or GF were refused a visa, even with all the documents required. No explanation given.

As far as I'm concerned, I had an argument with the staff at the French consulate a few years ago after my (ex) GF was refused a visa. I wanted to know why but couldn't get an explanation. "I don't have to elaborate" said the vice (?) consul. They almost called the security guards.

Point taken. Good to know.

Hi, I have a 1 year Multi Entry B visa, and the one year was issued by a Thai embassy abroad and not by immigration. Thus, this same B visa can be used for any other jobs other than my original company. I also have a Work Permit already.

I'm looking for extra work. I can teach English very well and it was my first language, although I am not "white".

(I actually owned my own small English school in another Asian country before moving here).

I can also do editing and proof reading, because I used to teach English term paper writing in that same Asian country.

Here in Thailand, I run a small company related to production advertising. However, in my line, business is sometimes good, but sometimes dead. I'm looking for extra work to supplement my income during the "unstable" periods. (Preferably part time, because I run my other business as well. However, my other business has a flexible schedule).

You may send me a private message, or email to <snip>

Cheers!

David

Good for you if you are going to Manila to get your B Visa docs. I sincerely hope you get it. However, just to let you know in advance, it's quite difficult to get the B visa in Manila, unlike in Singapore where it's almost automatic as long as you have complete documents. In Manila, you may even be asked to show your employment contract, and then they sometimes even question the contents of the contract and say that "this and that" should be included in the contract, and "this and that" is an unfair provision of the contract (like "why doesn't your contract specify your holidays off?" or "your contract should include benefit like this or that"... In any case, since you'll be in manila for the holidays anyway, go ahead and try to do it there. I suggest you get TWO copies of the documents. First give one set of documents to Thai embassy Manila. If they deny your application, you can use the second set of documents to apply for one in Singapore where it's almost automatic. You can get a cheap Cebu pacific flight from Manila to Singapore, and then a cheap Tiger Airways or Air Asia or Jetstar from Singapore to BKK.

As for your comment that "Filipinos with lower salary doesn't mean they're less educated." Well, I agree. Nobody implied that to begin with. However, it's an issue of "

packaging" . The customers (Thai students) prefer to be taught English by White people (even those from "white" countries which don't speak much English), and therefore, they fetch a higher price even for the same service. Just like in the supermarket, where you can have 2 or 3 or more brands of ketchup which taste identical, but the consumer buys the one with the packaging which appeals to him/her. We can complain and wine all we want about how it's "unfair", but that is the reality of consumer behavior.

Oops, i meant "whine", not "wine"...

Good for you if you are going to Manila to get your B Visa docs. I sincerely hope you get it. However, just to let you know in advance, it's quite difficult to get the B visa in Manila, unlike in Singapore where it's almost automatic as long as you have complete documents. In Manila, you may even be asked to show your employment contract, and then they sometimes even question the contents of the contract and say that "this and that" should be included in the contract, and "this and that" is an unfair provision of the contract (like "why doesn't your contract specify your holidays off?" or "your contract should include benefit like this or that"... In any case, since you'll be in manila for the holidays anyway, go ahead and try to do it there. I suggest you get TWO copies of the documents. First give one set of documents to Thai embassy Manila. If they deny your application, you can use the second set of documents to apply for one in Singapore where it's almost automatic. You can get a cheap Cebu pacific flight from Manila to Singapore, and then a cheap Tiger Airways or Air Asia or Jetstar from Singapore to BKK.

As for your comment that "Filipinos with lower salary doesn't mean they're less educated." Well, I agree. Nobody implied that to begin with. However, it's an issue of "

packaging" . The customers (Thai students) prefer to be taught English by White people (even those from "white" countries which don't speak much English), and therefore, they fetch a higher price even for the same service. Just like in the supermarket, where you can have 2 or 3 or more brands of ketchup which taste identical, but the consumer buys the one with the packaging which appeals to him/her. We can complain and wine all we want about how it's "unfair", but that is the reality of consumer behavior.

i know im n big trouble.and they are deducting 15% off my salary for the tax, i said i should not be deducted because i dont have a work permit and the tax number am i correct?

Absolutely correct. Your boss is pocketing the 15%. Of course he is not submitting income tax withholding for an unregistered, illegal worker without a tax card.

BTW, I heard some rumors a couple of weeks ago about an enforcement of the labour law against illegal Phillipine English teachers working in Thailand. If that happens to be your case (and of course you don't have to confirm or deny that here!), you might want to seriously consider getting legal, or else look for another job where they will provide you with work permit and not steal from you by falsely telling you that they are withholding income tax that they are pocketing.

i will discuss about the taxt with my boss.the thing is some financial adviser is telling him that i should be deducted by tax.by the way is it possible to stay in thailand for 3 more months doing the border run (3 x 30 days) after i used up my m months valid tv?(60 + 30 days extension)is this possible? Please advise, because the way i see it you can go here without a visa and stay for 90 days and come back with a 3 months valid tv. Can i do it vice versa i have a visa then do the visa run?

Not sure about the visa issues, and the Sunbelt people would be best to advise on that.

The key issue is: you are working illegally on a tourist visa and without a work permit. You are risking arrest and detention at immigration prison if you are caught. Your boss knows that, and he is even taking money from you and calling it "tax withholding". I suppose he feels it is worth the risk, since he will have significant legal problems as well if he is discovered.

Yes, the financial advisor is correct that withholding must be done with employee's wages in Thailand, and that withholding must be sent to the Revenue Department each month, while specifying the employee's tax ID number. Social Security contribution must also be submitted. Your boss cannot possibly be doing that, since you do not have a work permit and you do not have a tax ID number. I seriously doubt he is sending in withholding to the Revenue Department with a note by your name (no tax ID number - illegal foreign worker).

If I were you, I would seriously consider the risks you are taking, added to the fact that your boss is deducting part of your salary and it is definitely not going towards tax withholding. If you are OK with gambling on time in immigration prison and deportation, then that of course would be your decision. Don't mean to be putting this too harshly, but you need to think carefully about the possible outcomes of this situation, particularly since there is apparently some sort of effort forthcoming on behalf of Immigration with some sort of "crackdown" on illegal Philippine workers. I know there are plenty here, as we recently advertised for office staff in the BKK Post and amazingly about ten percent of the CVs that came in were from Filipinos living in Thailand. This is sort of a recent occurrence, as we didn't see that nine months ago with the same newspaper advert.

Bubba,

9 months ago, those illegal filipinos were probably here already.

The reason they didn't apply to your advertisement at that time was because they were happy with their jobs even without work permit, because they could do border runs.

Now that there is a border run crackdown, they're trying to "leave" their current jobs (which have no work permits) and look for work in companies which give work permits, like yours (i hope).

Cheers,

junkofdavid2

i know im n big trouble.and they are deducting 15% off my salary for the tax, i said i should not be deducted because i dont have a work permit and the tax number am i correct?

Absolutely correct. Your boss is pocketing the 15%. Of course he is not submitting income tax withholding for an unregistered, illegal worker without a tax card.

BTW, I heard some rumors a couple of weeks ago about an enforcement of the labour law against illegal Phillipine English teachers working in Thailand. If that happens to be your case (and of course you don't have to confirm or deny that here!), you might want to seriously consider getting legal, or else look for another job where they will provide you with work permit and not steal from you by falsely telling you that they are withholding income tax that they are pocketing.

i will discuss about the taxt with my boss.the thing is some financial adviser is telling him that i should be deducted by tax.by the way is it possible to stay in thailand for 3 more months doing the border run (3 x 30 days) after i used up my m months valid tv?(60 + 30 days extension)is this possible? Please advise, because the way i see it you can go here without a visa and stay for 90 days and come back with a 3 months valid tv. Can i do it vice versa i have a visa then do the visa run?

I totally understand what kind of jerk employers you may have... and I also understand that at this point in time, you may not have any other choice but to work with them because of no other alternatives. The lesser evil, if you can afford it, is to volunteer to pay for the Work Permit yourself and not wait for your boss' 3 months before he forks out the money (assuming your boss' issue was just the expense). Assuming that your boss' company is "eligible" to employ foreign workers, the work permit and B-Visa from Singapore would cost about 30,000 baht if you do it thru Sunbelt Asia (that already includes the price of Air ticket and Hotel to Singapore to get your Type The Singapore ticket and hotel (I recommend Hotel 81 or Fragrance Hotel, cheap but clean and safe) will cost you about 15,000, the B visa in Thai embassy in Singapore would cost about 2500, Sunbelt's service fee to prepare Type B documents is 1000, Sunbelt's service fee for Work Permit is 6500, and govt fee 850. Plus add some for miscellaneous expenses (Example, Sunbelt charges 300 baht "travelling" fee per trip to go here and there to file your documents.

Unfortunately, even if you can pay for your own B Visa and Work permit, this all CANNOT be done if your boss' company wasn't registered properly. (Ex. it should have a registered capital of 2 Million Baht, it should be VAT registered, etc.) In this case, you'd have to first pay Sunbelt to "fix" the company registration so that it can employ foreign workers, and that will cost a lot too.

I'm speaking from experience here.

If you are on a 90 day permitted to stay entry you can stay until the date indicated - but if you are on an extension of stay from immigration you will have to leave after your work permit is canceled.

I have no idea what you are asking when you say "purchase an entry stamp". If you have a multi entry non immigrant B visa that is still valid you would be able to return using it if that is the question.

Got a question about this (still confused after reading a few posts related to this)..

I have accepted a new job that will commence next month.

I currently hold a Non-Imm B (1 year, multiple entry) with WP from current company. Once I sumbit my WP to my current employer, do I have only 7 days till I get the new WP with new co.? Do I need to leave TH? As I have the Non-Imm B Visa I do not wish to go out of the country, but wondering if that would still be valid.

From what I understand, according to Sunbelt and Lopburi in previous posts:

If you got the full one year from a Thai embassy abroad, then it's valid even if you lose your job, and you do not need to leave Thailand in 7 days.

HOWEVER, if you got a 90 day Non-B from a Thai Embassy abroad, and then you extended it to a 1-year multiple by going to Thai immigration inside thailand, then you will have to leave thailand in 7 days if you lose your job.

That's just what I understand, you may ask Sunbelt or Lopburi for clarification.

Cheers,

Junkofdavid2

I think the value of the western farang is about to be understood.

The value of the western farang who comes here to do legitimate business or has the financial resources to obtain a retirement visa or comes as a tourist is already understood and Thailand continues to welcome them.

The western farang who hasn't the resources to do anything other than scurry across the border every 30 days before returning to some work that generates minimal income but no foreign exchange is also understood, which is why they want them to go home.

From your post I see you must be a happy holder of a visa and or work permit. You probably have sufficent funds in your account and live life happily here in Thailand. By reading your words when you talk about people scurrying across borders makes me see your care and concern for the elderly living in this country. Possibly they wish to reside here as the weather, taxes and quality of life back home make it hard for them to have a good life. Maybe they have worked hard all their lives but weren't as fortunate as you? Maybe they have a pension less than the required amount necessary to get a visa.

Do they spend their pension checks here? Oh yes Do they help the Thai economy? More than you know!

Where is you compassion for these people? So many westerners here have such a bad attitude towards there fellow country men? Are the 30 day visa runners of lower statue in life because they fall through the cracks of the Immigrtion regultions? Not all 30 day visa runners are scum! Many are good people who just wish a better life!

Try compassion for your fellow fanang not contempt!

Yeah, all these elderly people who have worked so hard in their home countries for all their long life and have not been able to save 800,000 Baht before wishing to emmigrate to Thailand. What a pitty it is they had been poor little uneducated workers in their home country and how ununderstandable that Thailand doesn't want them.

Do you know the requirements if a Thai wants to visit Europe or US? They need a guarantee from someone there, they may need an invitation letter (even if the Thai is the MD of a 20 billion factory going for a business trip!).

People, if your home country's social security is so lousy that you can't meet the minimums required to live here then go back and fix your home country's government firs.

Brilliant observation, (although I don't believe in "revenging" on the ordinary citizens of farangland itself).

My mother is from a pretty wealthy Asian family (Yes, wealthy even by "western standards") and were invited to visit our French family friends in the south of France (and they were even some kind of nobility there, with a vineyard and the works) and despite this, the French embassy gave my sisters such a hard time, and they wanted not only an invitation letter from our French friends, but they also wanted a written letter from the freaking TOWN MAYOR that we would genuinely be staying with our French friends, and nowhere else. (Admittedly, it was just a small town, more like a village Mayor)

The consul advised us that it's better if we booked a hotel instead of accepted the hospitality invitation of our friends, because then the hotel could "guarantee" that we were there. But that if it wasn't a hotel, they'd need the signature of the TOWN MAYOR HIMSELF.

How crazy is that?

Can you imaging applying for a Thai visa in your home country, and then the Thai consul asking you for a letter from the Mayor of Bangkok (or even a small town you may be staying in)? That's ridiculous!

In the end, my sisters booked a hotel (and fully payed for it!) and then stayed with the family friends instead (and just explained the ridiculous thing to the hotel manager when they got there).

"We are all asking "how" the immigration officials at the border can add up the 90 days (instead of the number of stamps)."

"I think no one is denying that they can do it, it just seems absurd that they actually will. It's in no one's best interest to fully implement the new regulations."

Only time will tell.

Have an idea... whoever is the first one who is "caught" for having 90 days and thereby given a mere "last 7 days" to leave..

Let's host a despedida party for him! Free beer and all!

The visa uncertainty is certainly starting to dig in, at least in my neck of the woods in Pattaya.

The apartment block where I'm living was full last year, but this year it's almost empty. This is not cheap accommodation (30k and up per month), but there are no takers for 6 month leases now.

The upside to that is that those who are able to sort out their visas and stay will have much more bargaining power now against current landlords, and also access to so many nicer apartments at lower prices! Law of SUPPLY AND DEMAND!

THE POINT I AM COMPLAINING ABOUT IS: THAILAND MAKES IT INCREASINGLY AND INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT FOR ANYBODY TO *STAY* LONG TERM.

WHATEVER your reasons for being here PERMANENTLY (AS A "NON IMMIGRANT", thus):

-Marriage

-Children

-Business

IT IS BECOMING INCREASINGLY AND INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT.

Everywhere in the West, the above reasons are usually VERY VALID for PERMANENT stay (or extended stay, at least).

NOT IN THAILAND.

The only category that is truly welcome here... yeah... you guessed it (if you read my other posts today)...

are the ABOVE 50 YEARS OLD!

IT REALLY SEEMS LIKE ALL THE REST OF THE "ALIEN" POPULATION WOULD GET THE BOOT IF THE AUTHORITIES HAD THEIR WAY.

Bottom line these days.

---

Back to original topic: Thailand WILL BE WELL EMBARASSED WITH ITS STRICT POLICIES ON TOURIST VISAS.

They made it so hard for ordinary Westerners (EVEN THE WEALTHY WESTERNERS, I MEAN) to stay here long term that MANY (MANY!) OF THEM -- FOR DECADES -- HAD TO USE THE RECOURSE OF TOURIST VISAS TO BECOME DE FACTO RESIDENTS.

Laws have to be FAIR to be respected (and enforced!). AND TO FULLFIL THEIR INTENT.

The Thai Immigration authorities always wanted the impossible: keep as many NON-TOURIST foreigners as possible OUT. And as many TOURISTS as possible IN.

NOW THEY HAVE A MESS.

See... It's quite ironic and and of course it's going to come back again and again to bite them in the b-tt.

Over the years, a lot of de facto full time residents were never integrated into the system.

Today, we are told the Thai autorities suddenly want to clear their act and boot illegal workers out (and others who fall into grey areas! The baby with the bathwater!) .

AND THEY CLEARLY RISK LOSING THEIR TOURISTS AND FINANCIALLY SELF-SUFFICIENT FARANGS who are, as things stand, LOST IN THE MIX UP (not to say: MESS).

If this really happens BIG TIME: Som Nam Na!

I agree with you... no argument there...

"Thailand NEEDS tourism income. Most Western countries DON'T"

Yup, I agree with you there. Unfortunately for most on this forum (including me before, until I got a 1-year multiple non-, it's their discretion on how and when to get that tourism income, as silly as it may seem

JOD2, out of interest - what asian country are you from?

Interesting question... interesting question indeed.

There is a very good reason why Thai people sometimes find it hard to get overseas visas.They tend to overstay a lot more than most nations.

While immigration can be very tough,they do have their reasons.

That's right. David, If you could get a visa to a first world country, you'd see that we got our undesirables over there too.

I agree with you. Following your logic, it would also be a "very good reason" for Thailand to make it hard for farangs to get visas, since just like many Asian tourists in America, many farangs find work illegally using the VOA with border runs.

I totally understand the "undesirable Asians" problem you have there, and I am admittedly embarassed when I travel to the US (or even just Singapore!) where I see my fellow countrymen (i'm not Singaporean) acting uncivilized and giving me a bad name... the same as decent farangs who get embarrassed when they see their fellow countrymen acting undesirable too.

ya know,i reakon I would get embarrassed if I had to talk to you for more than say...2 seconds.

Wow! You're so super witty man! I can't believe it! Whoo! You must have a PHD in debate or something...