opebo

Dude the Thai population is rapidly aging and not growing much at all anymore. It is highly unlikely it will ever reach 82 million - we should be so lucky.

There's no problem with 'overcrowding', etc. The problem will be a lack of young workers and too many old decrepit people relative to those few young workers.

I don't disagree that Thais are prone to fighting in groups, but I did once see a Thai man attack a farang alone.

It was a funny sight. I was walking along Beach Road looking for girls, when I saw a drunken yob covered with tattoos being trailed by a small Thai man. This went on for a full minute or so, then the Thai picked his moment, ran up to the yob, and knocked him down and beat him furiously for just 20 seconds or so. He then walked across the street to the beach promenade, took off his shirt, and walked away normally. (presumably he thought a farang would identify his shirt more easily than his face!)

I'm a great coward, but also a loner, so I try very hard to avoid any conflicts in Thailand. I think their mob tendencies have more to do with their group-mentality than their corwardice.

Ah, yes, the infamous anti-night owl drive of the government. We know it well.

I should think you would have noticed that before about 2000 or 2001 the bars were open all night, and now they close at the ridiculous hour of one or two AM.

Of course there are no really cool place in Thailand year round, but Pattaya and everything in Isaan and the North are pleasant during winter - about November through February.

Here's my tip - stay up all night and sleep all day, and the country will seem far cooler and generally more pleasant. (alas with the depressing anti-night-owl drive of the Thai government over the last decade, the only place you can realistically stay up all night as god intended is Pattaya).

Some posted budgets above.. I like doing that.

My budget when I lived in Pattaya on money from the US -

Rent - 5,000

Util - 1,000

Girls - 40,000

Food - 9,000

misc - 3,000

Bike - 2,000

TOTAL - 60,000/month

Now working upcountry:

Rent - 2,800

Util - 1,000

Girls - 10,000 (I can't get away so often and the options here are only half a dozen.. kind of defeats the purpose of being in Thailand, but still, better than The Bad Place).

Food - 6,000

Misc - 3,000

Bike - 1,900

TOtal - 24,700/month

Some comments on this thread:

As usual, many members like to rain down abuse on those who have less money. Gentlemen, one's position in the social heirarchy is predetermined by forces outside one's control and doesn't reflect upon one personally in anyway.

We also find many people decrying the 'sex tourist', and also making the assumption that here is a correlation between impecuniousness and libidinousness. Of course there is not - every male in the world, and certainly every male westerner in Thailand is a 'sex tourist' in the sense that we all pay for sex, gentlemen. Why do you think women sleep with men? And why do you think they are more prone to the pretense that is 'for free' with wealthy (aka powerful) men? Obviously because they are playing a long-game and hope the rewards of deception will be greater than giving honest service for an honest price.

Society demands that we condemn women for prostitution, and men for purchasing sex from them. Why?

__________________________________________________________

But as to the question about expatriate life in Thailand.. what keeps people here is actually not that Thailand is so good (and certainly it is getting worse), but that the rest of the world is so very, very bad (and also getting worse).

I've never beent to Phuket but obviously love Pattaya (what's not to love?). I'm heading down to Phuket in a week or so though and wanted to ask for recommendations for cheap hotels. I'm willing to stay in Phuket Town and would like 600 or under. Also any place in Phuket Town for cheap scooter rental? Say 100-150/day?

While it is true that it is hard to predict anything accurately but there are a few exceptions. I'll make the claim that we can accurately predict the demographics of Thailand (for ten years anyway), and that this will profoundly effect every aspect of the country.

Certainly demographers have been spectacularly wrong in their predictions before - we all know how they used to go on about population growth, while nowadays the birth dearth and aging population is the overriding phenomenon. And Thailand is no exception - Thais' birth rate has fallen disasterously (to an even lower level than the US, though not quite to European levels), and each succeeding generation is relatively smaller; thus this country is aging rapidly.

How does this affect the farang in Thailand? Obviously, far less young women to enter the sex business, alas. One can already see a shockingly increased median age of our working girls in Pattaya. There is no more scarce commodity in a world of declining birthrates than hot 18-21 year old poonanny.

I fear it is this demographic change even more than economic growth or puritanical governments which will destroy our fun, gentlemen (though obviously each reinforces the other).

I stay in a funky place in Bangkok with air for 380 baht/night. I won't say where it is though..

I just found this thread. I've been buying a Honda 125 here in Isaan for over a year now (almost a year to go on the payments). I just don't like it much. I often rent beat up older Suzukis and Kawasakis in Pattaya and find I like those better. The Honda is just so much rougher and more vibrating.. plus its not very powerful. I also used to rent a Yamaha long term and it was great too. I think just about any bike would be better than a Honda.

It is really amazing what a pain it is to kickstart the Honda - it always seems to 'catch' at a point in the engine's rotation where it is very hard to budge it. Lastly the Honda is very 'cold natured', and I can barely get it to stay running if I start it up in the middle of the night at the bus station after I return from a few days escape to Pattaya.

I'm thinking of getting rid of it for a Kawasaki with electric start - only 32,000 here in 2007! I guess prices have come down a lot since earlier posts on this thread (2005).

Does anyone agree that Kawasakis, Suzukis, and Yamahas are much smoother than the Wave?

Thanks very much JeebusJones and Lopbury3 for your reassurances.

But like Cali, I feel very paranoid at the border:

I used to think people were worrying about nothing in regards to already having a few stamps in your passport, I have to confess now, as someone who arrived shortly before October '06, even I'm getting looks of disapproval when I go before immigration as they flip through my book.

Last time I went through immigration I got the most unfriendly looks both leaving and returning. The cop behind the desk (I call them cops.. a pig is a pig) looked at my passport like it had a turd in it, and carefully went over every page, pausing to give me hostile appraising looks every few seconds, pursing his lips with distaste. I definitely got the feeling he enjoyed the power of his postion, and wished he had enough to just deny me entrance arbitrarily. (btw I am the most mild-mannered, neat and clean of farang - no tattoos, facial hair, etc. here). I wonder if by this visit the news of the new 'airline ticket' requirement will have given him a new tool to throw his weight around?

I plan to travel to Lao soon for a visa. I currently am on a 30 day stamp (my first in this year and in this passport), and prior to that just finished a 'non-immigrant B' granted for teaching. These are the only stamps or visas in my relatively new passport, other than the Lao one from the visa run a month ago.

Can anyone advise me if I have a chance at a regular 60 day Tourist Visa at the Thai embassy in Vientian, considering the state of my passport. If not, and I must re-enter under a stamp, will I be forced to show a 'return ticket'?

I'm guessing once they see the work-visa and the one previous stamp, there is no way they will allow a regular tourist visa.

My school claims it has reported our presence every 90 days by mail. Now I am leaving Thailand (thankfully) and wish to have proofs available at the border that this was done. I will attempt to get copies of these letters, but the idiot/non-english speaking girl who supposedly takes care of such things says they don't have copies - just sent the letters. Of course as usual they have no idea what i'm talking about, and couldn't care less about any fines a 'high earning' farang might owe (we deserve it for making 30K/month).

So, I wonder if the next step is to stop by Nong Kai immigration on the way to the border and try to get some stamp, letter, or other proof that they were notified?

Dark skinned Isaan girls with exotic Isaan faces and taught, slim Isaan bodies are by far the hottest girls in Thailand. My personal favorite are girls from Surin, and also I like the tallish slim lanky ones.

There is no reason to buy into the easthetic of a benighted local elite - it simply has no meaning to the outsider from the big world.

Hua Hin is booming! Obviously not everyone comes to Thailand for sex tourism, or they obviously wouldn't come here...

Hua Hin is full of prostitutes, mdeland. I would say a few hundred total - there are several sois of bars, a Lolitas, and at least a couple of big overpriced brothel type places for the rich Thais.

yeeah right. the average isaan bar girl has more integrity than the 'bigoted xenophobic snobs.' it's good that she doesn't look down on you when she's ripping you off, and looks on you as a real person while she's fleecing you out of buffalo repair kit after buffalo repair kit. funny thing, though, those 'bigoted xenophobic snobs' aren't the ones voting for toxin.

Who said anything about 'integrity' - I doubt either group has that. As for their unfortunate political tendences, the poor cannot be blamed for that as they are merely reacting to their oppression under the capitalist system.

As for fleecing, it doesn't happen to me, as I do 100% short time only. Two hours of fun and then you're blissfully ALONE.

Excellent analysis, the Snark! I couldn't agree more. However I would like to point out that the reason all of us come to Thailand - the girls - come mostly from Isaan or other rural areas. These are the ethnic groups that are looked down upon by the Chinese-Thai and Central Thai, who are bigoted xenophobic snobs. The poor people who appeal to most tourists for companionship are from a much more laid-back and fun-focused culture, necessarily, because they've always been oppressed and have never had any money.

This isn't to say an Isaan working girl isn't mercenary, just that she knows how to be friendly and have a good time while she is working, and doesn't necessarily look down on the farang (after all she's from the lowest class in the Thai heirarchy). The Central and Chinese Thais basically do look on the farang (or for that matter anyone) as an annoyance to get money out of, not a person.

A very good point. The sex industry for the Farang is earmarked by huge neon signs and touts who stop everyone who walk by saying "sexy DVD, sexy movie" or "ping pong show".... Thais have very quiet, nondescript places with black windows, and maybe a few girls sitting out front early in the evening. Only 3% of the biz is geared toard Farang... ever drive around Huai Kwang? Dozens of GIGANTIC brothels, each one bigger than Soi Cowboy or Nana.

Could you please direct me to this 'Huai Kwang'? Does it welcome farang or is it 'asian only'?

The sex tourism is not the point. Its the look of things that matters.

This is a very good point. Alas, the asian and particularly the Thai-oriented industry is much more likely to involve some coercion within the brothel arrangement. The nice thing about the farang-oriented industry is that the girls tend to be either freelancers or only very loosely associated with bars - they may leave anytime they wish. If the 'farang option' is lost by poor Thai women, they will be condemned to the - relatively speaking - ill treatment they recieve at the hands of their 'own people'.

What difference does it make if the back packer spends it over a longer period? The money is still injected into the economy, and with less social damage than Mr Sex Pest.

What 'social damage' does the sex tourist cause, serpentine? If we did not visit, the women would be selling their services to Thais instead, and it isn't as if the parts in question wear out.

Of course I suppose if you are a Thai monger you would resent the competition driving the price up?

Otherwise I can't see what this 'social damage is to which you refer.

well if the 'average' tourist comes once a year and gets one stamp .....

and the visarunners get 12 a year .........

could be quite a hit on the #'s

It is reasonable to assume that the Thai government will make the arrival figures say whatever it wants them to say, but as far as the 'real' difference:

Say 50,000 visa runners (a very conservative estimate), times 12 runs per year = 600,000 tourist arrivals.

This is hilarious! People move to Thailand to avoid heating bills?! They move to Thailand for SEX, Martin.

You prat, what a thing to say, bet your dick is as small as your brain.

It is simply the honest and obvious truth, icecubes, regardless of how much you and other prudes would like to deny it.

So its the reason you are here???

Obviously! Just like nearly every other foreign man living in Thailand.

looks like I'm a prude too. rather be called that than a grubby, sad, sex tourist

Your assumptions about the hygeine or psychological state of we sex tourists are largely inaccurate, Markyprude. I for one wash frequently and am a very cheerful fellow.

The difference between you and britmaveric, and myself is that I am honest about why I am here.

This is hilarious! People move to Thailand to avoid heating bills?! They move to Thailand for SEX, Martin.

You prat, what a thing to say, bet your dick is as small as your brain.

It is simply the honest and obvious truth, icecubes, regardless of how much you and other prudes would like to deny it.

Livin' is right that the purpose of the new regs is to rid Thailand of the illegal workers as stated in the news article. Someone with a large bank account/pension is not going to toil around teaching English for 30K/month. Those folks are simply not going to enslave themselves for such a pittance when they are self made

Good points, except I would note one caveat - most us in this category are not 'self-made', but rather simply come from well-off families.

Remember that the Thais who would like to see the back of these 'bad' foreigners are not ones who will lose out financially by it. However, an 'excuse' for the tightening-up is needed, to give to those Thais who will be hit financially.

Good point - as always the poor will bear the brunt of the economic loss, namely the poor women for whom prostitution is the only way to earn a large income.

In the longer term, Thailand can expect lots of 'good', and well-off, foreigners wanting to settle here in retirement to avoid the winter-heating bills, and other nastinesses, of living in many other parts of the world.

This is hilarious! People move to Thailand to avoid heating bills?! They move to Thailand for SEX, Martin.

On reading the views in this forum it appears that the imposed immigration visa ACTS are having the desired affect and clearing out lots of the dross.

They can try dregging off to Thailand’s neighbouring countries, but will discover they don’t want them either.

Presumably by 'dross' you mean men who are in Thailand for sexual purposes. Of course this covers probably around 90% of white males resident in Thailand, kuzi, including no doubt yourself, if you were honest about it.

As for other countries welcoming tourists such as these.. it all depends upon their economic situation. Xenophobia and prudery are luxury items!