huli

You are all pissed off because the tuk tuk driver wanted 50 baht for a short trip? To take you exactly where you wanted to go without any other passengers? Come on....it's less than $2 American....

Just knew it wouldn't be long before a TV poster decided to slander someone's nationality. Can't change the stripes on a Zebra.

Actually I am an American, as is he, so it was just a comparison we both can understand. Why would someone slander their own nationality?

Wait a minute, are you slandering me, or zebras?

I wouldn't worry about missionaries if I were you. The "End of Buddhism" in Thailand - if it ever comes - is not likely to be due to Christianity.

I agree with you. I'm just complaining about their obnoxious behavior.

You are all pissed off because the tuk tuk driver wanted 50 baht for a short trip? To take you exactly where you wanted to go without any other passengers? Come on....it's less than $2 American....

Unfair...I'll tell you what is unfair. Politicians are by nature immoral, and get to make descisions thinking that they know better than the people they represent....thinking the people are like silly children who don't know what is best for them. Here in Thaialnd where the majority are Buddhist laws have been passed which put us at a disadvantage. Buddhism is very tolerant of other religions and and so is Thailand. When the people wanted to make Buddhism the National religion they were denied. All religions get an equal say in things, so wheneve there is a meeting about religious affairs all religions get equal representation....not equal to their percentage of adherants within the country...so the 95% Buddhists get only as many representatives as the Christians who are a tiny minority...and suffer the pushy prostlytizing actions of those others who are given free reign. Of course the politicians who allow this are only Buddhist in name and in their greed for power allow the precepts to take a back row.

How about proportional representation?

I agree, proportional representation is only fair. I also think the Thai government gives out missionary visas too easily. Why encourage, to this degree, the Christians to come here to preach their message that Buddhists will all go to hell, because they don't accept "Jesus"? In Chiang Mai they offer free English lessons as a ploy to corner a Thai and preach. Some stand and scream their sermons in the middle of busy public areas. Their schools flaunt the Thai traditions. They get accepted here, but they don't accept themselves. I am embarrassed at this behavior by my admitted countrymen.

"My teacher Luang Por Jaran at Wat Amphawan, Singhburi says that in 100 years Buddhism will have disappeared from Thailand."

I agree with your Luang Por Jaran.

Gods never wrong with anything. They are in the Universe for many billion years.

Your should be glad that something better than Buddha's dhamma is coming in the near future.

talking about "Gods" is ridiculous on a Buddhist Forum

"you should be glad that something better than Buddha's dhamma is coming in the near future" - doesn't this statement violate the rules of this forum?

this brand new member's prognosis is grim

There are a lof of monks who become famous by producing Jatukam.

And it's generally accepted that the power embeded in those amulets are from Trimurti or Gods.

If talking about Gods is ridiculous in Buddist forum, should those ridiculous monks be kicked away from the temple?

People do what they do. It's not appropriate to suggest that some temple should kick out their members. What's that to us, we don't make their rules.

However, we do have rules on this Buddhist Forum, and to knock Buddhism as you did is against them.

The questions, are there Gods?, if so, are they ever wrong?, if they are, about what? lead to nothing but meaningless speculation, the antithesis of Buddha's teaching.

OK, maybe ridiculous was the wrong word.

I heard of Boy's Blues place for quite a while but it was shut up. Tonight my wife and I went to the new Boy's Blues Bar in the center of Kalare Market and I really enjoyed myself. Boy is a real happy Thai, and can he ever make his electric guitar sing! Thanks to Thai Visa for telling me about it. I had a way better time than going to some girlie bar with a too-loud CD. Check it out!

"My teacher Luang Por Jaran at Wat Amphawan, Singhburi says that in 100 years Buddhism will have disappeared from Thailand."

I agree with your Luang Por Jaran.

Gods never wrong with anything. They are in the Universe for many billion years.

Your should be glad that something better than Buddha's dhamma is coming in the near future.

talking about "Gods" is ridiculous on a Buddhist Forum

"you should be glad that something better than Buddha's dhamma is coming in the near future" - doesn't this statement violate the rules of this forum?

this brand new member's prognosis is grim

As OP, it's nice to see that some of you all have kept this thread going. I found Brucenkhamen and Rocky's comments to be the most helpful.

I was originally inquiring about what are really just the mechanics of meditation.

Focusing on my breathing for a while, eventually the quiet awareness in between breaths increases. I am aware that I am not thinking. This would be the choiceless awareness. When thoughts emerge, as they do, and I notice, I return to focus on my breathing to stop the thought and the thinking. This is not choiceless, But the effort is to return to the choiceless state.

My hope was to entice experienced meditators to comment if this sounded right to them, or not. I'm not desperately needing help, or feel lost, or anything, I just thought why not toss this out on this Buddhist Forum.

Thanks to anyone who contributes.

there is a new place about 150 meters west of Chiang Mai Market inside the moat

at least that's what the sign says

the best in town???

readily available over the counter in (virtually) any pharmacy

According to Wilber, there is consensus among many traditions, including Zen (thanks Rocky), that meditation can be described in three stages. First, active attention, a state of silence with a "speak I am listening" attitude. This results in the second stage, where all thoughts and mental chatter is suspended. Remaining with this silence, eventually, one may reach the third and final stage of pure timeless awareness without the primary dualism. There is not much that can be done to get to the third stage except keep meditating until it happens and don't sweat it.

I have recently read a book by Osho, where he describes meditation as taking the position of a witness observing the mind. There is no focus per se, just be a witness.

Hubert Benoit's "technique for timeless realization" is an additional description of how a listening or watching attitude without a focus is the key to meditation.

A choiceless awareness, if you will.

BK has texture from all ingredients spot on and doesnt fall apart allowing you to enjoy every bite with every ingredient in the burger at the same time. Plus i can buy two Whoppers for the price of one at Dukes, at won't look like a slob trying to eat it with my hands.

If Dukes made them flatter and wider with the same meat content, it could be a winner. :jap:

My wife and I had Whoppers last evening having read how great they are on ThaiVisa. 2 Whoppers and 2 large fries for 410 baht. I admit the Whopper did stay in it's bun, but the meat was only 1/4 thick so I guess that's nothing to brag about. Dukes is a big juicy burger, nothing like the dinky Whopper paddy, and I clearly remember they sell for 99 baht, cheaper than one Whopper, much less two, as you state. On the whole, the Whopper did taste good and there were a lot of fries, I'll give you that.

As I understand it choiceless awareness means you don't take a choice of meditation object. If you are using the breath as your object then you've made a choice, if you are using the breath just as an anchor to return to when you get lost or there isn't much in the way of other objects then you've made a choice.

The trouble with choosing an object is that it's easy to start getting attached to observing that object and think that this is the main point of meditation, so people can get attached to observing the breath and get into a rut with it. Wheras (unless you are doing concentration practice) the object is only supposed to be like training wheels to help stablise present moment awareness.

Choiceless awareness is supposed to be an expansive and inclusive awareness so that everything the passes through your field of awareness is part of the meditation, it's not jumping from object to object like with noting practice.

I think the "and then you just stay with a profound alert silence" is correct, this is what is meant by "awareness", this state of unentangled knowing is what we're aiming for. Sayadaw U Teganiya encourages taking this awareness as your object and therefore strengthening, but if course this makes it not choiceless again.

To just be aware. That's not "taking awareness as your object", as a dualistic choice. Many deep thinkers have postulated that dualism is the core delusion of man, and to overcome dualism is one way of conceiving the ultimate goal one hopes to reach by meditating in a passive awareness, or choiceless awareness, one could say. If anyone is interested in this, check out the last chapter of The Spectrum of Consciousness by Ken Wilbur.

Thanks for sharing your take on this, Brucenkhamen. That's what I was thinking too, you helped me to clarify my thoughts.

I'm new to choiceless awareness.

What practice do you implement to use it?

My understanding is the Mindfulness or Awareness is living in the present.

Focusing on the breathe (a single point of concentration) is a simple way of being in the present.

When we are mindful of our thoughts, our body, our feelings and the things around us we are in the present.

When we start to think about past events and memories, and future possibilities then we have lost the awareness of the present.

When we become aware that our mind has drifted, with metta to ourselves, we gently come back to the present.

I find focusing on the breathe is a good way to return to the present as it seems to act as an anchor for my wandering mind.

How does choiceless awareness differ?

A couple of books I have that refer to it are Breath by Breath (by Larry Rosenberg) and The Meditator's Atlas (by Matthew Flickstein). It looks to me like the definition is to not have any primary object like the breath. This is pretty much for really experienced meditators I would gather. According to Rosenberg, eventually the mind tires of generating sensations, volitional formations, or any other state, and then you just stay with a profound alert silence. Or something like that. Is this state the real meditation that is best practice when the mind has been sufficiently tuned through a preliminary practice of focusing on the breath?

Googling choiceless awareness will provide a short summary by Flickstein, and you might be interested in the Wikipedia entry that says actually Krishnamurti is largely responsible for bringing the term up.

I don't have any great accomplishments, and am certainly not, or trying to be, a teacher. I'm just saying.

Thanks for the input.

Gents and gals

Interesting lately the discussion of whether a teacher is strictly necessary or not. Questions do come up, and can't be answered or illuminated by mere beginners, now can they?

In my meditation practice, and my reading to inform it, I've become interested in choiceless awareness, the state of attention without any object, that can be experienced once the body settles down, and the breath becomes subtle. Certain teachers speak of this meditation as being beyond breath-consciousness or other focus-consciousness. However, as I understand it, in Vipasanna the mind examines the 5 aggregates (the best example) for the 3 universal characteristics, or notes any of the fleeting 4 foundations of mindfulness as experienced. In essence there is still a focal point of awareness, whereas with the choiceless awareness, the idea is not to have one. The attitude towards thoughts seems completely different. One notices and examines thoughts however briefly, or focuses on contemplating the essential charcteristics, whereas choiceless awareness would only return to emptiness as it's process. Or something like that.

I grant you that either way is gonna be of benefit, even great benefit, but I'd be interested in knowing if you experienced meditators would have any take on this?

Many thanks

just got back. the river water is flowing east to west from Loi Kroh into Changklan night bazaar area by the McDonalds filling up the street. Lots of sand bagging going on

my wife got a message on her cell phone to pick up our daughter from Sacred Heart this morning. Our daughter didn't have her cell phone because they don't allow cell phones so it was hard to find her, not to mention the traffic gridlock. Many kids couldn't reach their parents, they were told to use a pay phone. It really surprised me when the wife said how glad she was that she paid the 100 baht to be sent the message in case of emergency. Apparently this costs 100 baht at Sacred heart. Not to mix up 2 threads, it's flood related.

having issues loading photos - anyone got some basic how to tips.

"try switching to our basic uploader" under help with attaching files. it worked for me

Keep the updates coming.

I heard the trucks but had no idea what they were saying! (I really need to learn Thai better!!!)

Has anyone got the link to the map that shows the flood areas and different stages. I remember someone posted it once before.

I don't recall the link, but I had saved the map and I have attached it as a PDF, if it works. floodareamap.pdf

thanks I been looking all over for that map

according to my Thai wife, who attended the Sport's Day Parade and watched our daughter participate, the reason they were dressed as Nazis was as follows, only as follows. Due to the competition in the sports day, and different colors assigned to the different teams, the red guys decided to be Nazis because, to them, the Nazis symbolized "power". As in, we are a powerful team. That's as far as it went.

Since the Nazis lost, I wonder why they didn't think to be Allies, but then there's the red color....

my wife and I have our daughter at Sacred Heart. Over the past 2 years I've had plenty of complaints about how they operate, but still have to hope there is some quality there, being a private Catholic school like I went to long ago.

Wife brought home the attached photo from the Sport's Day parade. There are many other pictures with swatstika flags, goose-stepping, and the Nazi salute, but this one stands out. Can you believe the boots and the automatic weapons of these sporty young ladies? Pretty heady stuff....

Any more?

dig the Hitler mustache

my wife and I have our daughter at Sacred Heart. Over the past 2 years I've had plenty of complaints about how they operate, but still have to hope there is some quality there, being a private Catholic school like I went to long ago.

Wife brought home the attached photo from the Sport's Day parade. There are many other pictures with swatstika flags, goose-stepping, and the Nazi salute, but this one stands out. Can you believe the boots and the automatic weapons of these sporty young ladies? Pretty heady stuff....

That female at the right of your photo. Is that a teacher?

I don't know. She looks kinda old, yea?

my wife and I have our daughter at Sacred Heart. Over the past 2 years I've had plenty of complaints about how they operate, but still have to hope there is some quality there, being a private Catholic school like I went to long ago.

Wife brought home the attached photo from the Sport's Day parade. There are many other pictures with swatstika flags, goose-stepping, and the Nazi salute, but this one stands out. Can you believe the boots and the automatic weapons of these sporty young ladies? Pretty heady stuff....

If l were you l would go to the principles office and ask WHY the school is glorifying a party (Nazi) responsible for mass murder of millions of innocent men, women and children and how it has helped your kids. .

If she doesn't attend summer school, they said she would not be ready for the regular term. If she didn't attend their tutoring, she won't succeed in their school. Both ideas fashioned to fatten the pocketbooks of their teachers, IMO. She has way too much homework, and ineffective classroom teaching. I can't stand 'em. I have no confidence my visit to them would make any difference.

my wife and I have our daughter at Sacred Heart. Over the past 2 years I've had plenty of complaints about how they operate, but still have to hope there is some quality there, being a private Catholic school like I went to long ago.

Wife brought home the attached photo from the Sport's Day parade. There are many other pictures with swatstika flags, goose-stepping, and the Nazi salute, but this one stands out. Can you believe the boots and the automatic weapons of these sporty young ladies? Pretty heady stuff....

"There is a common misconception among many non-Buddhists (and even among certain Buddhists) that the Tantras are late and corrupt additions to the Buddha's Teachings. This is false. The Tantras are genuine teachings of the Lord Buddha, and they occupy a paramount position within the overall framework of Buddhist doctrine."

"Some of the misconceptions about the Tantras stem from their esoteric nature. Since the time of the Buddha the Tantras were always taught secretly and selectively. For their correct understanding they have always required the oral instructions of a qualified master; without such explanations they can easily be misunderstood in wrong and harmful ways."

This is just an excuse commonly trotted out to justify teachings that bear no resemblance to the core teachings preserved in the oldest texts, the nikayas of the Pali canon.

I find it very hard to believe that a teacher who taught in such an open way, advised his followers to "be a lamp unto yourself", to not take his word for it but to test and see that his teachings were true and helpful, was also teaching vastly different teachings to a chosen few secretly and selectively on the sly. These teachings to turn up hundreds or thousands of years later in a very different style with a very different emphasis.

It would be better for those that discover new skillful means are honest about it's origins, the proof of the pudding is in the eating and not in the origin of the recipe, this is one of the points the Buddha was expressing in passages like the Kamala sutta.

Tantra is generally considered to have arisen hundreds of years after the Buddhas death and is not specifically Buddhist but present in Hindu, Sikh, Bön, Buddhist, and Jain religious traditions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantra

I don't know enough abbout this practise to be able to judge whether it's skillful or not, but I wouldn't buy a used car from a salesman who's claims about it's history didn't seem to stack up.

When Buddha's teachings were taken afar, and found there to be of great value, I suspect there was an effort to own them and minimize their Indian origins. It doesn't take much imagination to see how the Chinese or Japanese would want to have their own Buddhism, and not an Indian one. Just as the pure Buddhist teachings still inspire unique and creative books, it's always been possible to emphasize this or that. However, to say that there was an esoteric teaching that was kept secret until THEY came around? Maybe it would have been better if they just started their own religion. Here we are with people who call themselves Buddhists and nobody wants to say they aren't, but they emphasize Bohisattva's, talk about going to heaven, and emphasize rituals way too much, IMO.