Lorry

You are right, and I am one of those your post seems to address. Actually, I started diggjng, but found nothing so far. I will dig more. Thanks a lot for your criticism, I appreciate it.

I don't want to try this. Very good advice, thx

The only rules in black and white are RD 161/2566 "all remitted income is to be taxed" and the later rule "not income from 2023 or earlier". I wouldn't consider the RD's Q&A as binding rules. RD 161/2566 seems to be well known in the bureaucracy by now. Several posters have asked RD offices or RD and government hotlines. Not surprisingly, they got all kinds of different answers. And that's what scares me. Of course, if I remit 3.3m now it's savings from before 2024. I didn't make 3.3m in 4 months of 2024. But do I know what proof the RD will want to see? Immigration doesn't trust in Thailand's own bank books, do you think the RD will trust some foreign pdf print-outs? Maybe. I don't want to remit money and much (maybe years) later be told by the RD "No, the way you did it we consider as taxable income" Yes, I agree with you that staying 179 days only is probably the safest way. But even this is controversial, the RD hotline told poster 4myr he would still have to pay taxes on remitted income, even if he only stayed 179 days in the year of remittance. I will have the least headache if I don't remit any money into Thailand any more, at least not over the tax-free thresholds.

Sorry, I don't understand your directions. I would like to. What do you mean by "exit ramp"? What "hall" ?

Yes. Actually, I am tempted to buy a condo for a good price, 3.3m (normal price 3.6m to 3.8m) But I fear I have to explain to the RD why the money I use is not assessable income. And the discussion of gift tax has made one thing very clear: we know absolutely nothing about how the RD thinks and how things will play out. We are just guessing. So if the RD doesn't accept my reasoning, the condo price would be 4.4m, not a good price anymore. I am not sure how to proceed, but probably won't buy. Actually, this is the biggest problem about the new taxes: How to deal with the uncertainty? We won't know how things play out before mid-2026. What to do until then?

Agreed

Interesting. If the gift is real estate "the transferor deducts tax" Otherwise, "the recipient chooses to pay tax" (The Soi Dog Foundatio seems to be treated differently again) I have gone through all the usual English tax websites, Mazars etc. They all seem to imply that the receiver of a gift pays the gift tax, but very few clearly state it: an individual receiving certain types of gifts in excess of the tax-free thresholds will be subject to personal income tax at the rate of 5 percent of the exceeding portion https://www.thanathippartners.com/insights/legal-update/inheritance-tax-and-gift-tax-t2u2.html?show=4 Gift Tax The Gift Tax is a particular type of PIT for which the above source rule and/or residence rule also apply. In this case, a foreigner receiving movable properties (cash, car, jewelry, etc.) from an ancestor, a descendant, or a spouse as a sustentation, support, or gift, will be subject to a 5% Gift Tax on the portion exceeding 20 million THB, in each tax year. However, if the movable properties are given to the foreigner in the event of a formal ceremony, on customary occasions, or under moral responsibility, by a person who is not an ancestor, a descendant, or a spouse, the 5% Gift Tax will apply on the portion exceeding 10 million THB, in each tax year. Lastly, the 5% Gift Tax shall be applied on the portion exceeding 20 million THB of the appraised value of immovable assets (land, building, condominium unit, etc.) per legitimate child, in each tax year, which ownership is transferred without compensation from Parents to their legitimate children (but not adopted children). https://www.ilct.co.th/taxation-for-foreigners-under-thai-laws/ But: Say you and your spouse are freelancers with all clients based abroad. If you’re earning $60,000 a year and your spouse is making $80,000, you could “gift” $3,000 to them so you stay within the 25% tax bracket. With the extra $3,000, your spouse will still be well within the same 30% tax bracket. You’ve reduced your tax burden and kept your spouse’s virtually the same. https://btisolutions.co/will-you-be-impacted-by-thailands-revised-tax-code/ (I think this guy is wrong)

So, can they claim it back? I really don't know, but I doubt it.

NOooo The gifter HAS received the money, and then gifts it. One cannot gift money one has not received first. And one receives it as a salary from one's work, as capital gains, whatever. When one receives it one has to pay tax on it. How one then uses the money (buy beer, gift it to Thai wife, whatever), is irrelevant for ones taxes. Money Mr X gets is tax-free if Mr X got this money as a gift from a relative. Talking about Mr X's tax-burden here. Not talking about the relatives tax-burden. A practical example: Noi works at True call center, 35,000 per month Daeng is a manager at a bank branch, 60,000 per month Pat is an executive at a company, 120,000 per month Som is a surgeon at a private hospital, 350,000 per month Tik is a smart investor and makes about 1m a month They all gift all their income to their parents. According to your logic, they all wouldn't pay any taxes. Thais would have found out about this tax-avoidance scheme a long time ago. I will have to ask some Thais whether this works. Unfortunately, I don't know Tik, the smart investor, and Som might be reluctant to talk about her taxes. Noi probably knows nothing... Anybody can help here? What @Mike Teaveemeans is, basically you can deduct up to 10m resp. 20m for gifts for relatives from your taxable income. The opposite opinion is, only the giftee doesn't have to pay taxes on gifts. Any middle class Thai or Thai tax adviser should know the answer...

As dogmatix has said, we should read the Thai wording of the law, not the English wording of someone else. I can't read the Thai law, so I try to read the English as given by PWC. They are talking about taxes exempt from personal income tax - but WHOSE taxes? The second paragraph says, what is "exempt from personal income tax". It is 1. "Income derived from the transfer of..." Now, WHO has income derived from the transfer of property? Certainly not the gifter. The giftee has income from that transfer and doesn't have to pay PIT. Nothing in this sentence says anything about the gifter's tax burden. Income exempt from personal income tax is also 2. "Maintenance income ...from ..." WHO has maintenance income that would be taxable if it weren't tax exempt? The recipient of the gift. They are talking about the recipient's taxes, not about the giver's taxes. Tax exempt is also 3. "Maintenance income derived..." The giver doesn't have any maintenance income that now is tax exempt. The recipient has. And last 4. "Income from gifts ..." The Soi Dog Foundation has a lot of income from gifts and doesn't have to pay taxes on it. I, who loves soi dogs so much, get all my income from work. I have no income from gifts. I get no tax exemptions if I give all my money to the Soi Dog Foundation. I originally thought like Mike Teavee, it was JimGant's Soi Dog Foundation who made me understand all this. 2 caveats: - I don't know the Thai wording of the law - I don't know how the RD sees things. Dogmatix has said he is not aware of any other gift tax cases. And anyway, with gifts from abroad the view of the RD might change, for practical reasons. Nobody knows.

If JimGant and Etaoin are right, then you are wrong. I now am convinced they are right, see the discussion of the last pages. I must admit, that even the RD guy in Klonko's video seems to muddle through these things and not clearly differentiate the different scenarios. He sounds a lot like you. But what he says is not clear at all. What Somchai, the tax inspector, will do is anyone's guess

I still wonder what the RD will make of all of this in practice. Remittances from abroad to other people than yourself are not that easy to survey, people might intentionally (tax evasion) or not (if they just don't realise they must pay tax on gifts to their kids) not declare them, and it could all become a big mess. But I guess some things are easy for the RD: - scan remittances to property developers - scan remittances to wife and children of foreigners I wonder how the UK handles non-doms. I would suspect surveillance in the UK is much more perfect than here, but I may be wrong.

Sure, but try to make it proper English. I am not good at that

Wrong. "(Legitimate) Gifts are not assessable income" - they are not assessable income of the giftee. But they can come from assessable income of the gifter, and this has to be declared. Look at it from a purely domestic perspective, everything inside Thailand: Mr Gifter works very hard for a Thai company, has a decent salary and made 5m last year. All salary. He has to pay taxes for these 5m. He decides to gift these 5m to his daughter, Ms Giftee, as a wedding gift on her wedding day. He still has to pay personal income tax for the 5m. Ms Giftee doesn't have to pay gift tax, though. Gifting your money to someone else does not ease YOUR tax burdrn

This part is still not correct, but the rest is a very good summary, and very clear. Thank you. This part should read somehow like this: funds that you remit to another person, from overseas, might be intended as a Gift, but for your own tax declaration this intention does not matter. If the funds you remitted to another person are from your assessable income as listed in RD 161/2566 you have to declare them and you will have to pay personal income tax for them. The recipient of the Gift, may need to report the Gift and pay Gift Tax on the amount. Gift tax for customary gifts from close relatives is only due if the gift is more than 10m THB (20m for legally married wife, parents or descendants)

I agree, you have convinced me. But I am wondering how this would play out: It would be very easy for the RD just to tax all international remittances arriving in my account. No matter from whom, gifts or not. I guess it would be more complicated to filter all international remittances arriving in Thailand (including in the accounts of the Soi Dog Foundation) and figure out which ones came from me. There may be several people named Lorry in the world. So I could imagine that the RD finds it more practical just to tax all incoming transfers of my account. Some RD staff have said so, as posted earlier in this thread. Of course, it would be very stupid to pay the rent or the baker by international transfer and then not to declare these transfers as income. Could easily happen, though: you buy a condo off plan, wire the money from abroad directly to the developer - I think for many people it's not obvious that they have to declare this money when they file taxes in Thailand

Agreed 100%

Now the argument really spirals out of control. The whole point of @Etaoin Shrdlu and @JimGantis: A wire transfer as a gift to your Thai wife is still subject to YOUR personal income tax, even that transfer never hits your account in Thailand. And it doesn't matter whether it's a transfer to your wife, your landlord or the Soi Dog Foundation. Money that never hits YOUR Thai bank account it's still a remittance YOU have to pay tax for. Much earlier in this thread the corresponding UK rules were quoted, and they say exactly this. This part is wrong: "which means you don't have any remittances to declare to Thai tax" It may be that Etaoin and Jim are wrong, but I don't think so. And of course, if I would use transfers to my landlord hoping the RD would not find out that these are my remittances and that I have to pay taxes on them, and if I would not declare them, that would be tax evasion. Same in the UK. BTW of course the landlord and the baker have to pay their income tax, too.

No. If someone transfers gifts from his father or the inheritance from his mother to Thailand, it's not one of the kinds of income listed in RD 161/2566 and no PIT is due. That's not tax evasion, that's following the law

That was a theoretical example in order to demonstrate that the receiver and the purpose of the transfer cannot matter. Nowhere did I say that the transfer to landlord and baker should be called " gift", quite the opposite

I know and I did it. Just pull it upwards

Thanks for clarification

Flew business March 2020, old recliner seats. Return flight August 2023, flatbed seats.

I thought about situation 1 and about JimGant's "sarcastic" post and I think in situation 1 he is right. I could pay my rental apartment in Bangkok by international wire transfer from my foreign bank account to the bank of my landlord. I could even pay my baker like this. Obviously this money is still money that I remitted into Thailand (the UK rules even explicitly say so). So the receiver of the wire transfer and the purpose of the transfer do not matter, and they don't matter either if the transfer is a gift to anyone. This is important, it means gifts a tax resident sends to his Thai wife instead of himself don't help. About situation 2, I think JimGant is wrong. If Aunt Mary in Tallahassee sends me a customary gift, this is not a kind of income as specified in RD 162/2566. Stat is right here. 3 problems: 1. In Klonko's video, even the RD guy said a gift to your son has to be customary. That's wrong (read the law) because he was talking about father and son, but he is the RD. 2. What's customary? We only know a Ferrari isn't. What about a Mercedes? 3. As stat mentioned before, you could easily live off gifts from close relatives. I don't think Somchai, the tax inspector, will let you pull this off. But it certainly is one more layer of protection.

This discussion mixes up two completely different situations: Situation 1 (the situation most posters talk about): A foreigner, tax resident in Thailand, transfers money from abroad to the Thai bank account of another person in Thailand. The other person may be his wife or the Soi Dog Foundation, doesn't matter. The money is a gift. The money never goes into the foreigner's Thai bank account. Does the foreigner - who never controls the money since it left his bank account abroad - have to pay personal income tax on this money? @Etaoin Shrdlu thinks yes, and @JimGanttoo, if I understand him correctly. I would like to know from native speakers of English and/ or Thai ( @Dogmatix?) whether a "remittance" according to RD 161/2566 necessarily means a remittance to oneself or not. Situation 2 (the situation @stat is taking about) Another person, e.g. a close relative like stat's father, who is not a tax resident in Thailand, sends money as a gift from abroad to his beloved son's (who is a tax resident in Thailand) Thai bank account (not so much as to buy a Ferrari, that would not be customary, see @Klonko's video). Has the son to pay personal income tax on this money? @stat thinks no, I agree with him. Anybody thinks otherwise?