jonny on the spot

12 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Christ sake, so much doom day negativity before anyone really knows how this is going to turn out. 

 

For most my best guess, it will continue as it have done, but for those who already have tax number, it will be easier to squise a few more baht from. 

 

The very same who claimed a tax number on long stay visa, have done it to save paying tax to their orign country. 

 

It is a very good reminder, that what we have today, might not continue the same way in future. 

 

 

I am negative because historically these peoples quaint customs and stupid ideas aint worked out very well for me, difference is i didnt care about anything before but i do care about this.

22 minutes ago, OJAS said:

More likely, I fear and suspect, that, if we were unable to file tax returns in the Thai language ourselves (with doubtless particular regard to specific requirements for all dates to be expressed strictly in the B.E. calendar format and all numerals in the Thai (rather than Western/Arabic) numbering format, the RD would be expecting us to line the pockets of accountants who were well versed in local linguistics at considerable expense to us in all certainty.

 

They will just make it so frustrating we end up paying just to end it.

28 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

If they go ahead with demanding tax returns from foreigners without locally sourced income, they should at least produce tax return forms in English and add spaces for DTA tax credits with guideline notes explaining what is deductible under each of the 60+ DTAs and what supporting documents will be required. They publish English versions of the forms for guidance but don’t allow you to submit the English versions and there can be differences in the English versions too. I have seen cases where the Thai version had been updated but they had not bothered to update the English version, so that new clauses were missing and the numbers of clauses were wrong. 
 

With locally sourced income and no tax credits etc it is possible to file a PNG 90 tax return online, if you can read Thai well enough but otherwise virtually impossible as important messages keep popping up in tiny Thai script. If they are going to tax thousands of foreign retirees, perhaps they should recruit more staff capable of working in English, or perhaps improve the very expensive but poor quality public education system which teaches kids English from primary school to university but creates end products that are incapable of using English in a work situation or even having a basic conversation in the language.

They wont recruit anyone they have google translate. No point changing something they see as working flawlessly ????

I suppose they will have to employ some more car park workers to blow whistles and wave flags. Give this <deleted> the right appearance, uniforms and medals.

You know what im talking about.

Probably roll out a couple of rice farmers earning 600 baht a day on the Breaking News 6 O'clock show to tell the world how well this initiative is working in Issan.

9 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

Capital gains will be a big problem for property sales too, if you need to remit the proceeds.  Thailand has no capital gains tax but taxes gains as income at the top marginal rate with no inflation indexing which would be more than the rate of capital gains tax paid in the UK in many cases.  Then there will cases of folk who planned to sell their primary UK residence, which is exempt in the UK, to buy a property and retire here.  If they are Thai tax resident or become tax resident during that tax year, they are in trouble and for most of those caught in the Thai tax net, it probably wouldn't be worth remitting the proceeds at all and maybe not worth staying in Thailand, if treated like that.

 

One thing that is not clear to me is how do tax credits work?  I pay tax on UK sourced income which is a combination of UK pension and rental income.  All I have to show for that is a copy of my tax return and electronic demands for tax on account or after the balancing amount from HMRC with no receipts.  I can't imagine this will be what the RD will accept to approve tax credits.  And if I remit a portion of my taxed income for a year, will they keep track of that and let me remit the balance later?

You are in the same boat as me 2 pensions and rental incomes from the UK.

Trouble is this year i wanted to get rid of 2 properties Spain and UK and just live happily ever after.

But i know as sure as i got a hole in my ass these people will <deleted> this up, the bureaucracy, every office a different outlook on what anything means, the 12 A4 copies of everything, the embassy trips to BKK, getting "proof" from institutions that dont normally supply documents, especially ones written in simple enough language for the average uneducated idiot working here. Because god knows they didnt get the job on merit but because his uncle in LT general.

Every time i go to a government office its like the zoo, immigration, land office, whatever its the same <deleted> show, 20 monkeys trying or not trying to do 4 jobs in between eating noodles and their phone activity.

These people will never make this work and thats more frightening than a functioning tax system.

4 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

If I may put this here - this is my situation in the matter - and this might be relevant to other Aussies (and others) in a similar situation.

I am a tax resident of Thailand, because I am here over 180 days every year.  Therefore I am liable to pay income tax on any money earned overseas, anywhere in the world.  I am also a tax resident of Australia, because I am a Citizen and have money in a Superanuation Fund that is taxed by the Australian Tax Office (ATO).

My Age Pension (in fact any Government payment) is specifically excluded from being taxed by Thailand, in the Tax Agreement (TA) between the two countries.  And in every other with other countries that I looked at randomly, Governmment payments are not taxable in Thailand.  I would check that out for yours.

Australia | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th) 

In addition to the Pension, I have before, and will in the future, take some funds out and place that in an Aust bank account, and then transfer that to my bank account in Thailand.  That is the concern, because 'technically' the interest earned in my Super Fund is 'assessable income' for tax purposes - when it is remitted to Thailand.

My 'technical' tax obligation to Thailand under the TA requires that it applies to the interest earned, and that the tax that I paid to the Australian Tax Office for that, is offset against what tax could be applied in Thailand.

Aust Super Funds do not pay earned interest on an individual level, it is done across the whole Fund ($Billions).  The Fund pays the applicable tax to the ATO, and then puts any 'earnings' after the tax is applied, back into everyone's account. They calculate and pay tax on the Fund level, and whatever is left over (or under like in the GFC) is credited or debited againsat each Member's account based on their percentage share of the Fund. 

As you can imagine explaining all that to Somchai the local RF Officer, and providing him with written proof that he would accept, will be impossible.

But having said all that khrapp, the question becomes when will the Thai RD know I personally have remitted taxable money into Thailand? Are they going to look at every bank transfer of every tax resident in Thailand? No!

IMO what the Thai Govt will do is require the banks to advise them of any incoming transfer amount over X Baht, and to advise them of any single person who has transferred over Y Baht into Thailand in any year.

Who knows what those amounts will be - 500K and 1 Million? 1 million and 5 million?  Either way, that is the key IMO to dealing with this. Find out those numbers and then keep transfers below the amounts that will draw the attention of the Thai RD.

I have calculated that the tax already paid in Australia is higher than the amount that would be taxed in Thailand, and therefore I do not need to lodge a tax return.  If I got that wrong, I am so sorry.

Will I be ever be audited and in 2030 asked to pay back taxes - I very much doubt it as the funds involved would not be worth their time. However, it could still happen, and I will cross that bridge when I come to it. It definitely makes me even more reluctant to buy a property in Thailand.

Somchai is my major worry , especially when he asks Jitravadee for her opinion, and explains that my pain in the ass to get translations have been signed at the embassy with the wrong colour pen.

Then on my next visit Somchai and Jitravadee are having a day off and now i got Tongchai, who aint that bright on his best day and today i can see his eyes going glassy because he has no <deleted> clue about any of this.

And on and on it goes.

2 minutes ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

Sure but in fact there is already a freeze in the real estate market as nobody is currently buying.

 

This may also be due to some crooked farang developpers who deliver badly finished condos or villas, in beach towns catering foreigners like Hua Hin, Phuket, Pattaya or within all the Koh's... !

 

In today's world, information  can globally spread like wildfire on social media with a simple click behind a computer, sent from a foreign country, regarding the incompetence in badly finished houses or condos that the crooked local or farang developpers sell off to naive foreigners.

Well whatever the cowboy developers didnt ruin will be dead  now this tax dogs dinner has been announced 

7 minutes ago, John Drake said:

This guy has already reversed his campaign promises and laughed them off saying it doesn't matter. Could do the same thing with this tax policy too.

I really hope so, this is the first thing that has really made me think in Thailand, i seldom post here, this <deleted> seems to have set me off ????

5 minutes ago, John Drake said:

What might happen instead is someone with a bankroll will give, say, 8000 baht in cash now in return for the 10,000 from the wallet to be paid in six months. 

Thats a very good point.

What kills me is the stimulation <deleted>, does anyone really think that Tong Chai with his flourishing village corner shop emporium is going to expand his business on the strength of one bumper week? Of course not, hes going to stock up the week before and the week after back to business as usual.

7 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

Of all the groups affected the real estate developers will have the most impact on Srettha for obvious reasons.  He is not going to care about expats because there are already exemptions for Elite and LTR visas and these are the only retirees they want.  The Thai stock traders are one of the target groups.  So they won't get any quarter.  

 

I can see an exemption for funds remitted by foreigners to buy condos or long leases transferred at the Land Department in the name of the foreign, i.e. not Thai wives' names.  There would be follow up to ensure the property was purchased and might be a minimum holding period of say 5 years like the LTFs and RMFs where you have to pay the tax saved, if you sell early, to prevent people bringing in a boatload of cash for a luxury condo and then flipping, paying only about 5% in tax instead 30-35%  This would take some time to draft and legislate.  So it might come after the new rule has taken effect puttin the market in limbo for a year or two. 

Thanks for the 2 answers, good man.

With my situation, i only care about the money i have here now, the money i have sent here over the last 10 years (in case they start some back dating ideas) and the money i need to bring here in the future. Which is all savings/property sales in London and Spain nothing i have earned here.

But my biggest fear is the inevitable <deleted> up they will make of this, the thousands of interpritations in each office or civil service employee i speak to. What constitutes proof of tax paid, this translation is signed in the wrong colour pen yada yada yada.

Its great in Thailand until i need to interact with any government agency.

1 minute ago, Dogmatix said:

The truth is that none of the complexities have even been thought of. The law exists to charge tax on overseas income but it has not been applied because no one ever admitted to transferring income in the year it was earned. There is not even a space on the tax returns to enter tax credits from DTA countries and will apply to Thai overseas stock traders too because they get withholding tax deducted from dividends in many countries too.

 

This is just a work in progress from the RD that went up to Srettha as finance minister for approval while he was packing his bag to get on his million dollar flight with his daughter. Under pressure to fund the digital wallet fiasco, he said yes what a great idea and left for the airport.

In true Thai style, trouble is now he has said it also in true Thai style we got the problem of losing face with a reversal.

These people might actually try this, turn it into a dogs dinner but never mind.

I can just see me pulling out my last 3 hairs on my seventeenth trip to the tax office, with an unresolved tax issue which will eventually end up with me paying just to stop the frustration.

It just aint that good here any more.

4 hours ago, redwood1 said:

To tax all money that comes into Thailand would be the end of Thailand....Might as well just carpet bomb the place with nukes and get the distruction over with...

 

To make a Huge announcement  like this with no details is hilarious,,

 

This tax nonsese is not going to happen ever......They could never pull it off....  

I hope you are right but these people have a bad habit of knee jerk ideas that end up as broken, long winded, repetitive and overly complicated systems, i am more scared of that than something that functions properly.

Look at the other breaking news, the great 10,000 baht give away. I am struggling to see how giving every yaba enhanced, low cow soaked village idiot !0,000 baht is going to stimulate anything.

They will buy whatever they are buying at retail, sell it half price and all from the comfort of 4km from their wooden hut.

Another well thought out plan that looks like becoming a reality.

7 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

It will not be a case of just waiting to see how they classify your overseas income when you remit some money in.  You will be required to classify it yourself and file a tax return accordingly. They may or may not investigate you and demand documentary evidence but they can and do go back many years.  When they decide to do a random inspection, they work hard to try to find a reason to charge back tax, interest and penalties to make it worth their while.  Don't ask me how I know this.

Is that your friends opinion or something set in stone? My experience of these people is when they cant do the job very well or just cant be bothered they ask for a rain forrest worth of translated A4. But some how i am always 1 document short. Thats just for mundane issues.

I truly dread seeing the dogs dinner this will become, every office own criteria for what is acceptable proof yada yada yada.

I got a sinking feeling its hello London for us for 6 months of the year starting next June ????

57 minutes ago, kimamey said:

I suspect this is the timeline.

Someone is waiting whilst their S Class is being serviced.

They're thinking, 'I haven't made any announcements lately. I'm not getting noticed.'

They write down 'Tax incoming funds?'

Someone says, "Your vehicle is ready sir."

A policy is born

Thought of monday, law on wednesday and in the bin on friday.

Everything they do here falls flat due to lack of clarity.

But thats ok because thats exactly the result they were looking for, lack of clarity.