Oblomov

3 hours ago, onthedarkside said:

Properly and consistently worn masks, especially the better ones, help prevent the spread of the virus.

 

CDC weighs recommending better masks against omicron variant

 

Agency is likely to say that people who can consistently wear N95 or KN95 masks, rather than cloth masks, should do so

 

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is considering updating its mask guidance to recommend that people opt for the highly protective N95 or KN95 masks worn by health-care personnel, if they can do so consistently, said an official close to the deliberations who was not authorized to speak publicly.

 

With the highly transmissible omicron variant spurring record levels of infections and hospitalizations, experts have repeatedly urged the Biden administration to recommend the better-quality masks rather than cloth coverings to protect against an airborne virus, and to underscore the importance of masking.

 

“The agency is currently actively looking to update its recommendations for KN95 and N95 in light of omicron,” the official said. “We know these masks provide better filtration.”

 

(more)

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/01/10/cdc-weighs-n95-kn95-masks-guidance-omicron/

 

Meanwhile nobody is being 'traumatized' by advising 'telling' them to lose weight, exercise more and eat nutritious food so that the body has the most robust natural immune response possible and an increased ability to withstand a gnarly flu/pneumonia type virus.

Before the usual beer stool sages fall off their stools, I'm triple vaccinated, adhere to mask wearing protocols (even the dumb outdoor and beach variety) and certainly practise strict hygiene and even stricter distancing, especially from aforesaid beer stool sages.

This whole thing wouldn't have hit half as hard if more were fitter, less fat and took more responsibility for one's own health. 

Masks are part of an imperfect defence but the robustness of our own bodies is also essential as it looks like the case that we're all to have this variant at some point in the near future anyway.

On 1/10/2022 at 3:09 PM, RoyLee said:

I think excess deaths from all causes is more useful than just covid deaths for 2 reasons:

1. Western countries have fudged the covid stats so much they can't be trusted. 

2. Just glancing at your linked articles they don't consider effects of lockdowns. How many young people are lost to suicide or drug o/d to save an 80 y.o. covid patient?

Very true - if you remove those with complex co-morbidity factors, the clinically obese, the very old who are a feather touch from their last moments etc., the data would express more of an honest indication of fatalities -  The excess deaths, with covid a contributing factor, argument doesn't hold any water as of course there are excess deaths at the outset of a novo virus, but we'll all have to accept that this virus will be part of the usually complex causes of death of those of an advanced age or with complex conditions.

Data can be made to serve any purpose and it was 'fudged' as you say to instil fear to facilitate a compliance in extremely disastrous lockdowns. Now at least, it's a little more honest. 

No doubt that many of us have to get in much better shape as variants will escape vaccines whatever we do and though I'm up to date with my vaccines, I'm pushing hard to get my fitness levels as high as possible and the best diet possible. 

Have a good day RoyLee

On 1/10/2022 at 6:55 AM, sandrew33 said:

None of this will slow Omicron. Like various other places in the World have learned nothing really will stop it. 

 

Its going to surge, the overwhelming majority of people (particularly the vaccinated) will get a nothing or a solid cold and they’ll have enhanced natural immunity as a result. But it’ll be a crazy month to 6 weeks. 

 

These steps just cripple business even harder on way through. 

Dead right - cripple businesses and hobble the young before they even get started with the egregious disruption of education

If this latest (and not the last) variant leaves significant levels of natural immunity, following patterns of previous variants, then it will be worth the chaotic couple of months. I read some research that the healthy and unvaccinated gain a much more robust natural immune response post infection. I'm up to date with my own vaccinations but the importance of all who are physically able, to get fitter, not get fat and eat a good diet has never been more important. We'd all get through this a lot better with much better  general fitness and without the dire obesity levels in an increasing number of nations.

Fingers crossed - better times in the near future

Just now, Oblomov said:

People die. That's true. Sometimes of old age. Sometimes unfortunately early. Sometimes through very poor and unintelligent life choices. Most in the latter category accept this.

 

I'm vaccinated but am.aware that the vaccine was not designed for the present incarnation of this virus. 

 

Research from vetified sources though not sure where your juvenile timidity comes ftom. No doubt obese or some other chosen weakness that makes you timid in the face of nothing much.

 

99.6% according to data. Look it up if you're able. 

 

 

Deltacron. 

50 minutes ago, kimamey said:

It does seem a bit pointless cracking down on violations of these rules now. If it's important now then it was important when the rules were first brought in and any increase due to failure to abide by those rules is as much the fault of the police and their lax attitude as those flouting those rules. Therefore you need a crackdown on those not following the rules but that can't be by the police as they are responsible as well so there also needs to be a crackdown on the police. I can't see that happening.

 

I don't have access to all the facts about the spread of Covid in different areas and situations so I can't comment with any confidence but the main issue would seem to be large crowds gathering in close proximity and showing a lack of responsibility due to over indulgence. This isn't just something that happens in Thailand. I can't say if this is causing great problems or not but if there are to be restrictions on activities there needs to be sound evidence for it given the effects you mention. In the case of negative economic effects the government can give help. Education is more difficult but still needs to be tackled.

 

As for the 99% recovery rate I think that's missing the point based on what I know of the situation in the UK and assuming similar consequences in Thailand. Regardless of whether it's mild flu, a bit of a cold or an ingrowing toenail people are ending up in hospital although thankfully it seems for less time. That increases the pressure on hospitals which is then made worse if some of those in hospital are medical staff. That also effects other patients some of whom may require life saving treatment which if not possible may cause more deaths or life changing consequences. Then there's the effect on other areas including education and social care. In the UK although there are still deaths and every one is important they are less than they were but it's the effect of large numbers of people taking up hospital beds and the loss of those people in the places that they work that's causing problems.

The point you and many  miss is that so many suffer serious outcomes due to extremely foolish lifestyle choices - not just from this, but from almost every other condition. The 99.6% recovery rate is important and large numbers of those that died with covid as a contributing factor, had conplex comorbidity factors. This is not new. Health services globally have been under severe pressure with the rapidly worsening obesity crisis. 

You make some valid though obvious points but 'negative economic effects' rather callously diminishes the wholsale destruction of many millions of lives and livelihoods to a mere economic factor. It is not. And it will be blighting the younger and youngest generation for decades. 

Personal fitness and good diet, as well as hygiene. Social distancing. Masks in crowded indoor spaces - these measures harm nobody. But a panicked deconstruction of whole societies through state mandated disruption to education, work lives and other social services was insane and will be shown to be so as the deleterious effects become evident even to the lockdown zealots, no doubt sitting happily at home with a pension or other safely bestowed income.

9 minutes ago, peter zwart said:

An extra 800 million in poverty ww. Way to go with those rules and selling some shots.

Is that the figure? 800 million more in poverty? Also the ruination of businesses and people that fund our societies - that is also a staggering figure. 

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

I think what the govt's of the world want to stop is the overloading of hospitals that care for the covid patients.  Amazing that non-vaxx'ers are filling up the hospitals again.  Yeah I know vaccinated folks are being infected too with this variant but they aren't the majority of those seriously suffering and dying from the covid.  Some people can't get necessary care because the hospitals are full of the covid patients.  Doctors and nurses though vaccinated are now getting infected and have to leave work so those care givers are getting the worse of this - mostly due to those anti-vaxx'ers!  I have friends who are some of these care givers and I see their stories regularly, not just from the biased news media.  

 

I have friends and family working in London and provincial hospitals so well aware of the pressures on staffing. The recovery rate for this virus is 99.6% and possibly higher with omicron so the 'seriously suffering and dying' are overwhelmingly of an advanced age, have co-morbidity factors or are clinically obese. Whilst vaccines are a useful tool, personal fitness and responsibility for one's own health must be paramount. 

Hospitals are not 'full of covid patients' but the increase obviously further burdens health services at times when annual crises occur, and in nations with high levels of obesity and ageing populations, the problems are compounded.

If the latest (and not the last) variant does leave in its wake, a level of similar natural protection that Delta left, then the high infection rates may make an actual herd immunity possible in the near future. 

By the time they 'tweaked' this vaccine, and I'm triple jabbed and not an anti-vaxxer, then produced it in the quantities required, distributed it, administered it... then we may be onto the next variant. So we should all hope this milder strain becomes the dominant strain and leaves behind good levels of natural anti-bodies. Research suggests a higher level of natural immunity is left in those that were healthy and unvaccinated, so whilst vaccines are critical for obvious reasons, the human body must be given the best chance possible and that is simple good personal choices in diet and exercise. 

8 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Indeed.  Just imagine how many symptomless people there are who are not bothering to get tested at all, and are just walking around with "a cold"!

The point was more that they were asymptomatic, so didn't test until a mandatory workplace test. It's not about 'not bothering' but these guys make about 500 baht a day so obviously won't be buying the available tests at 199 baht. The cheap ones can't be trusted apparently.

How many of us would be perpetually buying test kits at nearly half a day's wages? Not me that's for sure. 

3 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Isn't it obvious that the easily transmittable Omicron will result in a massive uptick in infections? I have two colleagues self-isolating after positive ATK tests, but presumably people like them are not included in the numbers. There must be thousands more like that.

 

Fortunately, the symptoms are negligible.

I have 7 out of 7 Thai friends returned from Phuket and Rayong with pos test. All asymptomatic but also not in the completely innacurate data. 

13 hours ago, fangless said:

Some good news! facts and commen sense.  Stop the restrictions and treat this $£$£ as the common cold or flue!

Exactly. Move on. 

21 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Considering about 35% of the American population are unvaccinated and about 90% are overweight or obese, that's hardly surprising is it. Any nation that refuses vaccination and has an unhealthy relationship with obesity really should not be on anyone's covid statistics and charts apart form their own as it is completely misleading to other countries figures

You're dead right there. Obesity, not only in this present virus, drives health services to the brink of ruin in the West. Once most doctors (and more importantly surgeons) were forbidden to tell patients they were too fat, being fat became widespread. 

Thai children and youngsters here are getting fatter too. It's time governments tried a bit of uncomfirtable honesty and addressed the obesity crises that have compromised personal health and state healthcare for decades.

8 hours ago, ezzra said:

Why am i not trusting those figures huh? the Thai government is know to be a big embellisher on all kind of figures just to look good and make a point and maybe because i'm thinking that no sane traveler would want to come to a country that strict with its covid rules, quarantine, and no nightlife to speak of where there are closer and better places to go, but what do i know

Seems to be the only show in town.

Tried Bali - no dice.

Sunshine, nice pools, plenty of places open. Pleasant beach trips.

The STV was straightforward and approved within 3 days. Similarly the Thailand Pass was simple and approved in a day. Test n Go, slick and easy (apart from the food where I stayed.)

Off to the south with Thai friends next week. 

I usually live on Bali for winters but lived in Thailand a lot before that. Grateful that Thailand made these sunny winter months possible. 

19 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

You write very well and succinctly.

 

Not use to that in the forum.

Thank you. And again best wishes. Maybe we'll all be directing our conversations to one another on brighter subjects sometime soon. 

Enjoy your evening

27 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

....Or like now with Omicron.

It's chaos with 1000's of flight cancellations and hospitals closing because of not enough staff.

 

"Global COVID-19 infections have hit record highs during the past seven days, data from the Reuters and AFP news agencies showed on Wednesday, as the new Omicron variant spreads rapidly, keeping many workers at home and overwhelming testing centres."

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/12/29/france-report-record-of-more-than-200000-daily-covid-cases

 

It's going to be worse here in Thailand with so many people vaccinated with Sinovac.

 

"China COVID vaccine fails to produce enough antibodies: Hong Kong universities"

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/COVID-vaccines/Sinovac-booster-insufficient-against-omicron-study-shows

 

Happy New Year.

 

It's not just anti bodies but T cell responses are also an importamt factor. We'll soon have data on what level of protection an infection leaves behind. The transmissability of this strain may enforce a level of herd immunity that could alter the impact of this present upsurge.

Let's hope so.

Happy New Year to you too.. 'Let's hope it's a good one.'

On 12/25/2021 at 6:00 AM, MrJ2U said:

There is not enough employees. There out sick.

 

"Essential workers slammed again as Omicron variant spreads".

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-omicron-essential-workers/

 

Just stay on top of the news and avoid your conspiracy theories and you'll be fine little guy.

 

 

 

Employees generally fit so not necessarily 'out sick' as the majority are not sick but are forced to isolate - Many of us get the flu and colds and get into work (mostly because we have to) so it's simply not true to say employees are 'sick' - infected yes.

This is still a problem of course as staffing levels affect function and efficiency

On 12/29/2021 at 6:00 AM, Enoon said:

Rising UK cases are irrelevant in light of the fact that deaths continue to fall and the average length of stay for a hospital admission is 3 days.

 

Because:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/28/omicron-is-not-the-same-disease-as-earlier-covid-waves-says-uk-scientist

 

 

 

 

+ Also UK got it right, at the beginning of the year, with its exemplary Vaccine initiative, and is now doing so again with its Booster programme:

 

 

 

For the UK it's swiftly going from (briefly) "just flu" and more towards "another cold".

 

The major problem is the effect on ordinary, everyday life, as pointless self isolating is "de-staffing" and damaging vast swathes of the socio-economic infrastructure.

 

Of course the former can't be true for those countries who, hubristically, managed to **** up during "half-time".........no names mentioned.

 

But they still get the socio-economic meltdown.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And if this variants leaves in its wake, similar levels of natural protection as other strains, then by the numbers involved in Europe, this could be a huge turning point and a major step towards significant herd immunity or at least resistance.

Getting fitter, losing the excess weight and eating the right foods all help and it's good that some are being forced to take that more seriously too - everybody I know has had it now and all recovered and very few had any symptoms beyond the flu type symptoms. 

I agree - the pointless self-isolating is creating huge problems and the booster program in UK was extremely efficient and fast 

Just arrived on Test and Go for a few months. Gatwick all masks and very spaced out. Qatar same. Thailand masks yes, but the airport was chaotic. Luggage belts malfunctioning. Multi (full)  flights coming up on one belt. Whilst the masks do some good in enclosed spaces, nothing very smart about not having all belts working and flights separated - hardly a busy day.

Lots of travellers from all over the world, turning luggage over, putting it back  and so it went on. These human tangles are why this can't ever be stopped or even slowed it seems, without stopping all that it is to be human. 

A bit of strict adherence, then a scrum of people, eating, sorting through luggage, then into a sealed taxi, then meet with friends from all over... 

Whether some like it or not, it's unstoppable unless we stop living 'normal' lives completely and always. 

If this new variant does leave in its wake, a level of natural resistance to infection, then the countries that are overtaken by it now will have receding levels at the time that the countries trying to batten down the hatches, will experience rises.

31 minutes ago, Jack1988 said:

I always said this is not the right time to travel ????

Agree - a lot of hassle but this might be the only way for a very long time to come. I'm mid-journey right now and I certainly would be doing all this without the STV and a very strong reason to jump the hurdles