Eleftheros

Transformative change? What change is there that is non-transformative? Does 'transform' not actually mean 'change'? More buzzword bingo which should be kept within the confines of a Dilbert cartoon. The evidence from Covid shows that we are not smart enough to stop a pandemic. It was known in late 2019 that a strange 'pneumonia' was circulating in China, but even as late as Jan 31 2020, the World Health Organization was still saying that "Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China." That statement sank the ship right there. Humanity is simply not smart enough to prevent a particular opportunistic infection becoming a pandemic - we'll get lucky some times, but the pathogen only has to get lucky once, and we're back into a pandemic. By all means prepare for a pandemic, as there is undoubtedly another one coming down the pike. But at least prepare a bit better than they did for this one, with Rule 1 being : Don't Panic.

Who indeed? Vaccines, along with antibiotics and safe surgery, are three of the modern medical miracles.

No, it's perfectly true, and even the UN Biodiversity Panel has realized it. "There is no great mystery about the cause of the Covid-19 pandemic -- or any modern pandemic," said Peter Daszak, president of the Ecohealth Alliance. "The same human activities that drive climate change and biodiversity loss also drive pandemic risk though their impacts on our agriculture." https://www.france24.com/en/environment/20201030-future-pandemics-likely-to-be-deadlier-and-more-frequent-warns-un-panel

1. You can't stop another pandemic. They occur regularly, no matter what we do. 2. The "devastating consequences" to businesses and economies were not caused by the pandemic, but by government responses to the pandemic. That was a man-made disaster, even if this pandemic proves not to have been man-made. 3. People may feel they have a right to be obsessed, but it is unhealthy for them and everybody else around them. As the Merriam-Webster dictionary notes, an obsession is "a persistent disturbing preoccupation with an often unreasonable idea or feeling".

Actually, I think the people who tragically lost loved ones during the pandemic will generally be among the quickest to get over it. They don't sit around waiting for the worst to happen, because the worst has happened to them already. I believe that we urgently need to turn our attention to the future, to find ways to ameliorate the massive and lasting damage that has been done, largely by government mishandling of the pandemic, to communities, to children's development, to adult healthcare, to the economy and society in general.

And I suppose some people will still be obsessing about Covid even into the 2030s, like those Japanese soldiers who were found hiding in Pacific island jungles, unable to accept that World War 2 was over. Even Christian Drosten, one of the main perpetrators of the whole Covid mess in Europe, has given up. “We’re experiencing the first endemic wave with SARS-CoV-2 this winter; in my opinion the pandemic is over, After this winter, the immunity in the population will be so broad and resilient that the virus can hardly be able to break through in the summer." (Original, in German) What we really need is one of those deprogramming units which have been used with members of religious cults.

Let them all in, no tests, nothing. Given that about 96% of UK adults have antibodies against Covid, according to the Office of National Statistics, I don't see any apocalyptic tidal wave of Chinese-generated illness. It's all a bit too reminiscent of the "yellow peril" narratives of the 1920s.

UK Health Authorities told the PM that such restrictions were pointless, but he went ahead and did it anyway. Professor Paul Hunter of the University of East Anglia [said]: “Point-of-entry and point-of-exit screening for serious infections have been shown – on many occasions – to be ineffective at controlling diseases. This has been demonstrated by studies that were carried out before and after the emergence of Covid-19. One study suggested that about 60% of cases are missed this way. This isn’t going to protect the UK population because it isn’t going to stop the spread. So it is hard to see what will be gained by imposing these tests.” As with so many Covid-related decisions, public health has nothing to do with it, it's pure politics and grandstanding.

Your health is not the main issue here. That's your responsibility. Do whatever you want to feel "safe". The fact remains that the idiotic focus on Covid by governments and their apparatchiks has caused them to forget about other diseases that kill such as cardiovascular, cancer, dementia, diabetes, tuberculosis and others. People in the UK were unable - or unwilling - for 2 years to get the early detection and treatment that are the best way to mitigate the effects of these conditions. Even Chris Whitty, one of the main perpetrators of the UK's disastrous Covid response, has now admitted that the inability of patients to see doctors is responsible for some of the excess deaths being recorded in the UK. The Office of National Statistics note that 5,170 deaths in men aged 50-64 could have been helped by heart medications. Whitty said: “We know from the data that there are more 50 to 64-year-olds with cardiovascular issues. It’s the result of delays in that age group seeing a GP because of the pandemic and in some cases, not getting statins for hypertension in time.” https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-pandemic-blamed-for-increase-in-heart-deaths-ns7r9jvjh The backlog of patients in the UK awaiting medical attention has reached a record 7.1 million. This is an ongoing medical disaster that was entirely man-made and unnecessary. Only when the obsessing over Covid ends, can we address issues of public health in a sensible way.

The true Covid hysterics absolutely love a "new variant", especially a "variant of concern". Some of them, it seems, would actually welcome a variant which goes against the trend of medical history and proved to be both more infectious and more severe. They (not all of them, but quite a few) would react with glee to the sight of bodies piling up in hospital corridors, so that they could vent their sanctimonious rage on anyone who disagreed with them -- mask dissidents, anti-vaxxers (whatever that is supposed to mean), Sweden, politicians who removed restrictions and anyone they can tag as "conspiracy theorists". It's as though an apocalypse, even a faux one, gives meaning to otherwise meaningless lives.

Restrictions on travel to try and stop the spread of Covid - they have clearly learned nothing over the last 3 years.

Well, the OP was about the UK, which I assumed was the topic of discussion. But the argument still holds for Thailand. There are 65 million people here, and currently about 3000 cases of Covid per day. Adding an extra 0.8 per cent to the population in January, isn't likely to do much, as the Health Minister has explained in another thread on this forum. It's time to let the obsession go.

You are aware that Covid is still circulating widely in the UK, with about 40,000 cases confirmed last week? What possible difference can a planeload or two of Chinese make to that? I feel some sympathy for people who see Covid goblins and demons round every corner. It is an obsession, and an unhealthy one.

If they are that old and sick, then they are at a very real risk of dying from any number of things, of which Covid is just one item on a very long list. If someone were to suggest that Covid is the only threat to such people, or even the most important one at this time, would be a fine example of the obsession I am talking about.

Ah, one of those sudden gradual influxes ....

It really is time for people to stop obsessing about this virus. The obsessives remind me of a teenage girl constantly checking their face for perfection in a mirror, because they have absolutely no other thought processes going on. Most people would be much better of if they could just get over it and concentrate on something more valuable.

Not a great start to a smart city if they can't even get the acronym right ..... The Thais sure love their big plans, their charts with the drawings and the big arrows pointing this way and that. It's usually used for mapping out the structure of criminal organisations, which is fairly apt given the amount of money that will be lost to "spillage" if this initiative ever gets going.

New Zealand was also stupid enough to think that it could keep Covid out - it had its own formal Zero Covid policy. Australia, too, did the same thing without specifically calling it Zero Covid. In my estimation, the rest of the world was indeed stupid, but I have yet to see any indications of common sense. Giving up Covid restrictions was marked by the same panic as the original decisions that imposed them in the first place. China has gone from welding people in their apartments to almost no restrictions in about a month. Austria did something similar earlier this year. The facts on the ground hadn't changed, but the policies were completely changed.

Predictably enough, Chinese state media now says that anyone picking out Chinese travellers for tests is 'discriminatory'. https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/covid-19-travel-curbs-against-chinese-visitors-discriminatory-state-media-3174486 For brass neck, that gets win, place and show.

The resurgence of measles last year claimed 128,000 deaths from 9 million cases in 22 countries, a surge attributed to lockdowns and lack of access to health care, specifically meaning a precipitous drop-off in the rate of immunization against measles, says The Telegraph. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/centuries-old-disease-now-becoming-imminent-global-threat/ WHO director-general Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said: “The paradox of the pandemic is that while vaccines against Covid were developed in record time and deployed in the largest vaccination campaign in history, routine immunisation programmes were badly disrupted, and millions of children missed out on life-saving vaccinations.” Another consequence of our far-sighted and noble leaders imposing their medical decrees on populations worldwide.

Western Australia banned "me" (that is, anyone) from going into hotels, gymnasiums, or restaurants if I was unvaccinated. Those are public spaces by any sensible definition, as are trains, buses and other modes of transport (Canada banned the unvaccinated from those.) Austria (for the third time of writing) banned me from going to any public space at all if I was unvaccinated by forcing me into lockdown in my house. I'm not going to write this stuff down again, it's obviously not penetrating at your end.

You just don't read what other people post, do you? Leaving aside the employment angle, several countries and territories banned the unvaccinated from normal day-to-day activities. Austria banned them from all public spaces by forcing them to remain in their houses under lockdown. You are trying to defend the indefensible on this one.

Thank you for the honest answer. Perhaps you could supply another one. Do you believe, as you suggest, that everyone who chose not to get vaccinated belongs to 'the bullheaded conspiracy theory bunch'?

I'm inclined to think you're not being serious, as everyone over the age of 10 has heard of "vaccine mandates" and "vaccine passports". For one example out of many, the unvaccinated citizens of Western Australia were specifically banned from entering hotels, restaurants and gymnasiums, Canadians from all forms of public transport, Greeks faced a monthly fine, and Austrian unvaccinated people were subjected to lockdowns. None of this is new, or secret. It happened worldwide and was publicized worldwide. It is also clearly illegal under international law. As the Nuremberg Code puts it : "The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, over-reaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion."

You cannot be serious. Canadians, Americans, Europeans, Australians all faced various forms of vaccine mandates (some still do) or face the official sanctions I mentioned.