hagler

My moneys on the girl with the bike

Yep. probably gone upcountry to meet the family

If we are going to judge, Phuket's already not exactly bursting at the seems with the worlds elite movers and shakers.

It isnt just Phuket. The whole of LOS is one big destination for the strugglers including the expat community. I always have a quiet giggle when I read comments like the OPs cause invariably it comes from someone who is, at best, one step up from struggle street themselves. Why else would you be living in the Kingdom when there are soo many other better places to spend your time if you have the money.

I cant help you with specific stores, but because I have 15 minutes to spare I can bore you with the following based on my experiences of gear.

If you know what you are looking for then the "no Name" packs ( and in 90% of the cases of trekking boots) can be as good as the "name" stuff. I do quite a lot of high altitude climbing and mountaineering and A LOT of the so called "name " stuff is pretty average these days too. I would say 85% of the worlds gear comes out of third world factories now and a lot of these places are also churning out the "no name" stuff on the same production runs when they have finshed doing the "name gear" production run. I have just done some climbing the Caucusus's in Southern Russia and we were out and about for nearly 4 weeks and up to 5600 mtrs high and very very little of our gear was "name" apart from our high altitude technical boots and the durability of the gear was great. Last year I went to 5500 metres on Aconcagua in a pair of "no name" sneakers before it was time to switch to the plastic boots to head up to the top at around 7000. If it wasnt so cold then it would have been the "no names" all the way. I am not anti "name gear" by any means and have more "badged gear" in my toy room than is probably acceptable and sane, but more and more I am seeing crap stuff that is being sold as being good becuse it has a certain badge on it.

If you are not going to be heading into really extreme stuff ( say above 5000mtrs and below -5 degrees celcius) and are just planning to hike in the boots then I would just go with whatever mid cut trekking boots feel good and just "beef em up" with some proprietory waterproofing coating. Just remember to break them in cause no matter what name is on the label if they aint broken in they aint going to be comfortable. With the pack I would just buy one that feels good and comfortable for you and then "beef it up" by getting the stress points triple stitched and maybe have the zippers changed for good quality YKK ones. Both of these things could be done easily by any tailor in CM with an industrial strength machine. You will end up with a pack that is easily as strong as 90% of the "name ones" ( Gregory probably being the exception but hey if you using one of those puppies then you really are in some serious enviroment or you are WAY over prepared) and for about 1/5 of the price.

I see so many people out there on the road and in particular in SE Asia who are WAY overgeared. The beauty of the third world is when the thing has had its day you just go down the markets and buy another one for $20 to replace it.

Gawd that is it. Sorry to take up so much bandwidth.

and Air Asia will keep growing and Thai Airways will probably keep losing money. Within about a year all of Thai Air Asia's fleet will be brand new A320's, all delivered in the past 2 to 3 years.

That is providing Air Asia don't go out of business this year. They are precariously close to doing so at the moment.

Air Asia announced their first ever operating losses last quarter due to having to buy out their fuel hedging contracts early which cost them, on top of losses already made, some $90m.

If they did go out of business, it is likely their Thai subsidiary would survive in another guise though.

I know this is probably a bit late but could you post some links that justify your preposterous statement. Me thinks you are not in, and have never been in, finance or business and are just "making porkies up.

THE Malaysian low-cost carrier AirAsia has shown that fuel hedging can be a risky game.

The airline reported on Friday its first loss since its 2004 sharemarket listing after being forced to liquidate its fuel hedging contracts and write off derivatives held by the failed investment bank Lehman Brothers at a cost of 215 million ringgit ($90 million).

AirAsia declined to say at what price it had locked in 35 per cent of its fuel bill. But thanks to the slump in fuel prices to about $US50 a barrel, it said the one-off hit was better than incurring $US481 million ($735 million) of hedging losses if it remained in the contract.

Adding to its woes, the recent fall in the Malaysian ringgit forced AirAsia to unwind its currency hedging contracts at a cost of 213 million ringgit. On top of the 76 million ringgit of operating losses, the write-offs resulted in a 466 million ringgit third quarter loss for the airline.

http://www.businessday.com.au/business/air...81130-6nqo.html

Enjoy.

yep I will stand by my previous statement and expand on it further.. Your assertions that AA are "precariously close to doing so at the moment" is an illinformed and unsubstantiated statement from an underinformed and inexperienced casual financial observer"

All moaning about Gays is just a giant pain in the ass.

and Air Asia will keep growing and Thai Airways will probably keep losing money. Within about a year all of Thai Air Asia's fleet will be brand new A320's, all delivered in the past 2 to 3 years.

That is providing Air Asia don't go out of business this year. They are precariously close to doing so at the moment.

Air Asia announced their first ever operating losses last quarter due to having to buy out their fuel hedging contracts early which cost them, on top of losses already made, some $90m.

If they did go out of business, it is likely their Thai subsidiary would survive in another guise though.

I know this is probably a bit late but could you post some links that justify your preposterous statement. Me thinks you are not in, and have never been in, finance or business and are just "making porkies up.

Have I fallen into a coma and woken up on April 1st ?

Air Asia - I hate em. Have been on 10 flights with them since the New Year already. Every one on time and smooth as silk, I hate that. This year I will do about 40 flights with them, 10 of which will be PTH - KL and that the one I hate the most, absolutely hate it.

I get the same seat for the 5 hour flight every time, exit ailse 35C, which gives me more legroom than business class on any other airline. I hate that. For the cost of 1 PTH - KL seat with Qantas I can fly 4 times with Air Asia. I hate that. The aircraft is a brand new Airbus only delivered in November. I hate that. The service is always warm, friendly and punctual and professional, I hate that too. The crew are always well groomed and easy on the eye, I hate that as well. So all in all I would strongly suggest that you dont fly with AA and leave other poor punters to have to fly with them to suffer in silence.

Now were we going to talk about AA sister operation Tune Hotels as well? Fantastic brand new hotel opening at KL LCCT in April with rooms starting at RM 5 a night? Bet I will hate that operation too...

One set of rules for the rich and another for the poor. Civil War within 2 years. It's Cambodia all over again. Viva La Revolution.

Hope Fitness First opens in Patong. What a bonus. My membership here in Australia allows me to use any FF throughout the world. Absolutely fantastic for me when I am away on business or pleasure. The FF in Landmark in BKK is top notch and is really well equipped and staffed and I use it all the time when I am in BKK. In fact I'll be using it from this Thursday. This thread has reminded me to send the admin people at FF an email to tell them that opening in Patong is a great idea. Great gym club with great facilities. Bring one on ASAP to Patong I say.

'Thai at Heart'said, in post #13:

"In the last week I know of 10 relatives and friends of family who have returned from work in Pattaya area. All were employed in hotels either as reception or waitresses/waiter. "

That is exactly what was predicted recently by a government official, and part of the the possibility that I wrote about in my MA thesis a couple of years ago----Western recession resulting in the contraction of employment in tourism and manufacture-for-export in Thailand.

It is to 'their' villages that people will look when employment in urban areas contracts. And, just as the arising of those employment opportunities caused rural-to-urban migration, so their contraction will cause urban-to-rural flow.

However, it is possible to be optimistic.

Over the past forty years, that rural-to-urban migration has done a lot of social harm to the villages (disrupted families, with kids being brougt up in the absence of their parents, and so on) and it has done social harm in urban areas, too (rising use of cheap brothels causing spread of AIDs, and so on).

It is possible that the reversal of that migration may bring about much reversal of that social harm.Looking ahead over the next forty years, it is possible to constuct a scenario of the Bangkok poulation reducing at an average of 3% per annum, (though it will come in lurches (like the one that 'Thai at Heart' is reporting), rather than smoothly), and so reducing from the present 10 million to 5 million by 2030 and to 3 million before 2050.

I call it "A smaller and more beautiful Bangkok, with bigger and better Ban Nork".

The interesting thing to watch will be the second wave of urban-to-rural migration.

This first wave will be largely composed of lower-paid workers who have not been gone from their villages for long and who will fit back in relatively smoothly.

But the second wave will contain a lot of middle-class people, looking to construct middle-class lifestyles in the rural areas. I can't foresee them being willing to leave their savings, or their political clout, behind in Bangkok.

We will live in interesting times. (And, as that old Chinese saying points out, it is up to us how we respond to changing times---with spirit, or depression).

Yes very nice for the semi-skilled and unskilled workers and other riff raff to head off back to the rice paddies where they will all be happy eating insects and drinking mekong with the family again. You must be joking. Within 2 years Thailand will be another Cambodia and all hel_l will break loose as the disenfranchised Isaan poor are led to a "workers revolution" against the ruling urban elite. At least with Thaksin you knew that his generosity towards the North was a means to keep them placated. God help the Hi-So set and the soft middle class who have gotten fat on the sweat of the families in the paddy fields when they get a true leader from amongst them. There are a number of potential candidates. Just a matter now of seeing who it will be and then the carnage will begin in earnest.

Source: Editorial Opinion from The Straits Times - 28 November 2008

It is amazing to me that governments and newspapers in the west still choose to cling to un-truths to try and bolster up their own claims that democracy (as imagined by western politicians) works.

The amazing thing about Thailand right now is that the whole airport standoff basically comes down to two arguments. One about the freedom to protest, and the other about that protest blocking other people's freedom to travel. In the US, UK or anywhere else in the world these people would have been forcibly and violently removed from the airports within hours. Thailand has a better overall idea of the basic tenets of freedom, democracy and respect for your fellow man than any other country I have ever lived in. Bravo.

Why do I say that? Well, in the west 'freedom' and 'democracy' loosely translated means 'we must keep the financial machine running'. Here in Thailand the country (accidentally or by design) has chosen that this issue is more important than keeping part of 'the financial machine running'. They have chosen to solve the problem, one way or the other, with everyones input and a free and open exchange of views, rather than closing down the people that are causing the country discomfort in the name of big business, under the guise of 'democracy'.

The PAD are not making violent protests. Although that article does not say that, several news channels glibly report PAD, bombs, and violence in the same breath. The only violence is coming from the Red Shirts.

The Straits article makes an erroneous claim that PAD want 25% of the electorate chosen by methods other than voting. i.e. To be appointed. This is no longer the case. PAD have abandoned this idea as it was unpopular. Showing very clearly that PAD, unlike the current 'government' (if you can call them that), do actually listen to people..

I for one am all for people having different weighting applied to their votes, or having some portion of government appointed by a monarch, or the judiciary. Because having government voted in by a mass majority who have their vote bought is far worse than what PAD initially suggested. No matter, anyway, they have withdrawn the suggestion and now support 100% voted in governments.

I personally would support a weighted voting system, where a test administered to every member of society would give their vote a specific value based on their un-partisan political awareness, and IQ. It would stop the sort of farce we have had in Thailand with the PPP, and the sort of farce that happened in the USA for the last 8 years.

Stupid people, and I am not saying that about people in the north of Thailand - rather middle Americans - and people who's vote can be bought should not be aloud to vote. Period.

oh God it is stuff like this that makes it so embarassing to do business as a Westerner in SE Asia sometimes.

How many of the prolific posters on the PAD/Anti PAD debate actually have the right to vote in Thailand?

about them two of us got a hold of them one morning and snapped both their necks. Problem solved.

Umm, something is wrong with that statement. if you were able to grab hold of them and kill them so easily, then it indicates that the dogs were gentle and not aggressive. If so, that makes you one seriously disturbed violent individual. If I am not mistaken, Australia does have a functioning judiciary including police and animal control agencies. A law abiding citizen would have reported the situation to the authorities not decided that he was the law.

Ok, so initial statement was most likely mularkey, but now I'm worried there may be a loonie walking about snapping dog's heads because he deems it to be acceptable. Maybe I should organize the locals to grab some torches and pitchforks and set out on a search for him, just in case.

Please read the post again Sir. The animals were behaving in a highly agresssive and threatening manner to the users of the beach and on numerous occaisions and were not easy to subdue. The owner had been approached on many occasions by different people and asked to either modify their behaviour or to ensure that they did not come to the beach again. This is a tight knit family orientated beachside community that looks after its own problems when the overworked and under-resourced animal control and other agencies are unable to. ( animal patrol hours are 7am to 5pm, outside of the hours that the dogs were being let run amok and which the owner knew and was taking advantage of) The decision to take the action was not made by one person or indeed just 2 or 3 and most of the people involved hold working positions within the community that are of a "community relations" or public service type . I am comfortable with the actions taken. Sorry if my post offends you. Guess it is just how some things are sorted out down here in red neck land. Have a great day inyour part of the world.

So who gets the fine? The dog or the owner?

This is typical of thai justice. Bann everything because a tourist got bitten. But if a family of four gets killed on a Honda Dream, just keep it out of the papers.

My babies wouldn't hurt anyone, but if someone approaches me to say write me a ticket?

I never go to that beach, but I would like to see someone try to come up to me to complain.

As far as a kid getting bitten? What did the kid do to the dog? Some people just need to KEEP THERE KIDS ON A LEASH!!!

~a~

I live right on the beach here in Australia and we had a problem with someone like yourself and her two "babies" which were terrorising and scaring other people and their kids on the beach early in the mornings. She had the same attitude as you which was "well what are you going to do about it?" and so after being asked politely several times by different locals to either control them or remove them and her not doing anything about them two of us got a hold of them one morning and snapped both their necks. Problem solved.

Wow i didnt think you could personaly attack somebody on this forum,wonders never cease.does this give every body the right to call somebody realy bad words on here.

mmmmmmmmmmmmm let me see,who is first.

These type of threads always descend into a hate orgy by the anti-Thanksin mobs.

If Thaksin was a member of this forum , most of you lot would be banned for flaming by now.

The internet now allows the peasants to think that they have a voice equal to the people who go out into the world and actually do things. Best con job in ages. Keep on whinging away folks, Thaksin is probably reading this thread now and recanting his lifes' actions because of it.

Think I'll just stick to using my APEC card. Sounds like an information gathering exercise to me.

Give him 1 month to quit otherwise you are going to leave him. You and especially your daughter are better off without him if he wont stop and remains a smoker as he will just become a burden on you when the diseases start from his smoking later on. Smokers who cant quit are just weak willed losers anyway and you'd be better off with a stronger more virile husband.

First of all, Mitch congratulations with attaining your freedom, although i'm not sure how lucky you are after spending time in bombat. Lets hope luck will return.

Secondly, to all those righteous persons out there ('google guy' comes to mind), did you ever stop to consider it is not about right or wrong at all but about a person and his family who have found themselves in a life threatening situation...in thailand, and came out of it..alive!

Thats heroics!

Whatever the truth is, I dont care! And neither should you, it's not your business. Just read the thread, try to be helpfull, if not, keep it to yourself. (have you got no decency??)

It's not about his priors either, why would you even care, it's not your life. Why would you, after all these people have been through try and make his situation more difficult. For fuc_k sakes, the guy is trying to get his life back and there you are playing <deleted> detective and feeling all smart and superior coz you found something out about his past which he, with all rights, did not feel the need to tell the whole bloody world (the press done that job already for him).

Who the fuc_k do you think you are, I seriously wonder what it is that drives you to act the way you did on public forum. Have you got no personal life of your own thats even half that eventfull as our main subjects is, maybe its a bit of jealousy that drove you towards this?

Anyway, it's probably not even your fault, perhaps your parents were a bit too conservative or you just had the wrong genes, whatever it is dont bother others with your disposition pls. We already have enough of those on this planet and we dont need you to make matters worse, try and understand instead of judge, maybe even smoke some grass, chill.

p.s.

Could you pls send me your full name and address so we can have decent exchange of thoughts on this subject, i'd really appreciate it.

Kind regards.

If you take the time to read through the OP's statements and responses you will see that it was like a press release with only the good bits included and "glossing over" of the bad bits trying to garner sympathy and support. When he was rightly challenged on the inconsistencies made in some of his statements the responses were inadequate and contradictory.

All in all I probably think the guy wishes he had just kept his mouth shut as a lot negatives has come out of this thread for him than positives and that is why you dont see any more posts from him on here.

Perhaps before asking for someones name and address you would be kind enough to supply your own. Also an anger management course probably would do any harm either.

My Thai friends seem to think differently. They say 30,000 should be ample for a good house in a good area in BKK. Is Ari area a hiso area?

Thanks for Replies

Ask your Thai Friends.

Only a drug conviction in Taiwan, eh? I see you use both Kerry Graeme Mitchell and Ian Newton and admit you are New Zealander. You do realise there is such a thing as Google?

-----

http://www.marijuanalibrary.org/HN_14.html

08/17/93 Drug Swallowing smuggler bagged in Japan

TOKYO (Reuter) - A New Zealander has been arrested in Japan after he was

alleged to have smuggled drugs by swallowing huge quantities of marijuana, a

customs official said on Tuesday.

The official at Osaka International Airport in western Japan said

construction engineer Kerry Mitchell, 37, was seized there on July 12 after he

was alleged to have swallowed 755 grammes of the drug in 118 individual plastic

packets.

"It was amazing -- the guy swallowed more than 700 grammes of marijuana in

packets done up in plastic food wrap," said the official.

- - - -

___

You have already mentioned your connection with ganja and being trouble elsewhere in Asia, so I wonder how many Kiwis there are named Kerry Mitchell involved in drug smuggling in Asia? The age seems to fit as well (37 in 1993 vs 49 in 2005). An identical twin brother?

I wonder if this is why the foreign narcotics community were interested in you. Everyone is entitled to a new start in life - change you name from Mitchell to Newton did you to avoid detection? - but when you are protesting your innocence and leave out key facts from your life story, I don't want one of these delusional foreign publishers with their "innocent-Schapple-Corby-like" to pick up the story. Well, at least this you were smart this time around not to have any drugs on you.

I wonder how you managed to afford a house valued at 9 million baht and a yacht valued at almost 5 million after all those years in a Japanese jail.

Guilty by inadmission?? Hey.I am not trying to make myself out to be a saint here. How many of you guys are so called saints? The fact is, that we had nothing to do with the case in Phuket and that is the point I am making. I don't need to justify my life to you, or anyone else. What you say in your post, about the police suspecting me because of my previous conviction was already mentioned by me in one of my earlier posts. If you had read that properly, you would have seen that I agree that there were good grounds for the initial suspicion by the police - however, once they interviewed us and it became clear to them (as it did to the judge) that we were not involved in this case, they should have set us free. As to the case in Japan, I was convicted of possession, not dealing. I took ganja to Japan for 4 of us, having drawn the short straw. My 3 friends went to court for me on the day and backed up my story. The judge fined me $US2000 and ordered me to leave. Never spent a day in prison! Change of name? Yes I certainly did. Wasn’t going to get a good job (or any job) with my record was I? All legal. Google the NZ embassy here for confirmation if you doubt me. House worth 9 million? Is now, but it wasn’t when we bought it. Paid 4.5 mill for it around 5 years ago. Did all the work on it myself, as couldn’t afford to get builders. Money came straight out of MY MOTHERS ACCOUNT. You can be sure the Thai judge in our case, checked that out thoroughly before giving it back to us. You can also be sure the police didn’t want us to have it back either. My yacht, was paid for by my partner legitimately from his bank account (police checked that out too). My side of the business, was to sail it back to Thailand, repair and paint it, then charter it out for diving or fishing, for both of which it is very suitable. I still hope to do this. Special rates apply to thaivisa.com members! Yeah, I am protesting our innocence in this case because, we had nothing to do with it, but I have never said that I have lived an innocent life. Look all you like on Google, you won’t find any statement by me saying that I am a saint. I said earlier in this post that I don’t need to justify myself to you and that’s true, but I have, because people like you piss me off! Am just very thankful, that other members of this forum, aren’t so keen to see me and my wife get the death sentence after SO MANY YEARS IN A JAPANESE PRISON. Mitch Newton rests his case.

And the case has more holes in it than a round of swiss cheese. ting tong

Now it is getting interesting...

Hmmm I reckon Simon and Shuster might be reviewing their committment to publishing the best seller right about now.

Despite all this, I love Thailand. It is my home.

you seem to be a brave man Ian. i will submit your case to the Klingon High Council with the recommendation to award you with honorary Klingon citizenship.

congratulations on the outcome and joke aside. if something like this would have happened to me and my wife we'd take the next available flight out of Thailand.

If i was Ian i would be doing the same as soon as possible. Look at the case of Kevin Quill he was acquitted by the courts and then the supreme court overturned this ruling.

See below.

Kevin Quill, 45, former owner of the Fighting Cock pub, was arrested and convicted in 2001 on drug charges, which he has strenuously denied.

He served six months in a Thai jail before being granted bail. In 2005 the country's Court of Appeal acquitted Mr Quill of the charges saying there was no evidence against him.

However this week the case went to the Supreme Court who rejected the acquittal and sentenced him to six years' imprisonment.

Scource: Telegraph and Argus (British local paper)

How can anyone have any confidence in the Thai judicial system when you see this kind of thing happening. He had every chance not to return from the UK to Thailand when he was acquitted, but believed in the Thai system and he was sadly let down badly.

Cheers, Rick

Hi Rick. Thanks for the advice. It's a shitty situation we have cause on one hand this is, for better or worse our home now. Burnt all my bridges so to speak at home. I too am worried about Thai justice, but what to do? If I stay we run the risk of going down, but on the other hand, if we get out of dodge, I will be breaking the law as well. The prosecutor has appealled our case and I am not allowed to leave the country without permission from the court. I don't have Taksin Shinawatts clout and I doubt that the court would give us permission to leave. Oh dear. Mitch.

Firstly, "Congratulations" on yours and your wife's release after serving 22 months in a Thai jail! I can only imagine how horrendous it must have been inside. (I hear enough about the poor conditions in Bangkok Remand Prison and Klong Prem Prison in Bangkok).

I can't believe that it took 22 months for your case to come to court - the wheels of justice turn so slowly in Thailand. From what you have written above, it seems that your nightmare is far from over. Despite being acquitted, the State Prosecutor is appealing the verdict??? Have I understood correctly? Therefore you are not supposed to leave the country without prior approval from the Court. right?

How long will it take to reach the Supreme Court (Dika Court)? It could be anything from 6 months to 18 months to 2 years right? So in the meantime, your life remains in limbo. Has you lawyer advised you of the timeline? I still find it very hard to understand why - after all you and your wife have been through - why on earth do you want to stay in a country such as this which as treated you like this??

I think you should now be weighing up the possible outcomes if this is going forward to the Dika Court:-

1) You are succesful, win your case and you are declared a free man.

2) You are unsuccessful - what is the minimum and maximum sentence? (Remember that the original sentence handed down by the initial court can also be increased at this point if I understand correctly).

Perhaps something to consider... try and get a sounding via your Lawyer/another Lawyer as to the likelihood of you obtaining compassionate leave for you and your wife to leave the coutry to get medical treatment or visit your or her "sick" mother in NZ/UK and then it is up to you if you return or don't return for the Supreme Court Trial.....

Although you should be aware that the Supreme Court hearing will not be run like it is in the West. In Thailand, your Lawyer and the State Prosecutor will submit all their papers and arguments in advance (I think you have 1 month from when the State Prosecutor files an appeal for you to submit all papers). Then, on the date of the Supreme Court hearing, the verdict which has already been decided, is just read out. So you will not have a chance to speak up at all at the hearing.

I am not sure what happens in the event the defendant is "absent"?????????? i.e. if you and your wife ARE granted leave to exit the country but then YOU decide NOT to return here for the Supreme Court trial. Perhaps you forfeit the case? (Something to find out from your Lawyer or call up the British Embassy for advice).

Depending upon what decision you make, you and your wife can sell your house etc and start again in another country. Or return to a country with a PROPER police force!@

I think you need to now be finding out LOTS of information in terms of dealing with a best case and worst case scenario and the odds. If you have family financial support, you may want to consider engaging another lawyer who specialises in Supreme Court cases and sound them out on your likely verdict.... It pays to be wise in advance as many can tell you from bitter experience.

I would also strongly advise you to get either the British or NZ Embassies on side. What a difference if they can submit a document of support on your behalf and/or attend the Supreme Court Hearing.....

All I would also say is Thailand is just one country, you and your wife have already seen 22 months inside a Thai jail. This will no doubt have left some terrible scars and aged you in ways that many Posters cannot even begin to comprehend. Ask yourself are you really prepared if the verdict does go against you. And I am sorry to say that I would not equate levels of justice at the Supreme Court here with the Supreme Courts in Western countries.

Furthermore, IMO which I may be wrong and apologies if I sound negative here but as a consequence of the above, your name will ALWAYS be flagged in this country. Can you live with the unknown bust and arrest at 2am as you have previously been picked out by the Thai Police? (Those bastions of honour and justice ).

Once again apologies if I seem overly negative, I am just trying to be realistic.

The Very Best of luck and health to you and your wife.

Andiamo

Thank you for your post. Appreciate the advice. All that you say is quite correct. BUT...my wife is Thai, the good people who put their land up to get us out on bail would lose it, if I don't appear in court (over 3 mill which is very low for a case this big, which all the more shows how confident the judges are in our innocence in this case), and the complete lack of evidence with the police. They cant bring in new evidence by law even if there was any. Finally the judges comments during the trial are all down on paper. If you had been there you would have seen what they thought of the police in our case. Yes it will still take a long time for this to go to court - ave about 2 years. Unlikely the prosecutor would appeal again when he loses this one as it is only standard form to appeal a big case like this in any case. Cheers for your help, but will stick around. Their memory span is not that great and they have many other and bigger cases to chase. Mitch. PS: The NZ embassy were with us at court every day and saw that we had things pretty much in control. They said it was very exciting watching the action eg. police and prosecution screaming at each other, police getting shit on their faces with every bit of so called evidence going down in flames! It was quite a show and I am lucky I speak good Thai and could understand 80% of what went down. Mitch.

huh? Didnt you say in another of your posts that you had a house just outside of BKK that is worth 9 million baht? Surely the court would have had you put that up as surety ?

Hi. Sorry to get back so late but i've been out. The court would have let us put the house up as security, however we were both in prison, and had no way to arrange that and the police ran us in circles for over 3 months when we did get out, before telling us that they had lost our land ownership papers!! We would call them and make a time to go in and pick the papers up, take a cab into town at around 270 baht there and the same back, only to arrive and be told that so and so was out and would we please come back another day! We had hardly any money and were beginning to think we would never get them back. I think we finally just wore them out. We have only just got them back after having to report them "LOST". We have been out near 6 months now. So if we had had to rely on our house papers to get out, we would still be in paradise prison!! This is just a small example of the many problems we have had in dealing with the police. They do not take kindly to loosing. Mitch

well now you have your title papers for the property back wouldnt it be a reasonable thing for you to apply for a change of surety on your bail to yourselves? very straightforward process ( your lawyer can advise or even the NZ embassy) and then you wont have the problem of your friends having their land tied up and at risk for next couple of years.

Despite all this, I love Thailand. It is my home.

you seem to be a brave man Ian. i will submit your case to the Klingon High Council with the recommendation to award you with honorary Klingon citizenship.

congratulations on the outcome and joke aside. if something like this would have happened to me and my wife we'd take the next available flight out of Thailand.

If i was Ian i would be doing the same as soon as possible. Look at the case of Kevin Quill he was acquitted by the courts and then the supreme court overturned this ruling.

See below.

Kevin Quill, 45, former owner of the Fighting Cock pub, was arrested and convicted in 2001 on drug charges, which he has strenuously denied.

He served six months in a Thai jail before being granted bail. In 2005 the country's Court of Appeal acquitted Mr Quill of the charges saying there was no evidence against him.

However this week the case went to the Supreme Court who rejected the acquittal and sentenced him to six years' imprisonment.

Scource: Telegraph and Argus (British local paper)

How can anyone have any confidence in the Thai judicial system when you see this kind of thing happening. He had every chance not to return from the UK to Thailand when he was acquitted, but believed in the Thai system and he was sadly let down badly.

Cheers, Rick

Hi Rick. Thanks for the advice. It's a shitty situation we have cause on one hand this is, for better or worse our home now. Burnt all my bridges so to speak at home. I too am worried about Thai justice, but what to do? If I stay we run the risk of going down, but on the other hand, if we get out of dodge, I will be breaking the law as well. The prosecutor has appealled our case and I am not allowed to leave the country without permission from the court. I don't have Taksin Shinawatts clout and I doubt that the court would give us permission to leave. Oh dear. Mitch.

Firstly, "Congratulations" on yours and your wife's release after serving 22 months in a Thai jail! I can only imagine how horrendous it must have been inside. (I hear enough about the poor conditions in Bangkok Remand Prison and Klong Prem Prison in Bangkok).

I can't believe that it took 22 months for your case to come to court - the wheels of justice turn so slowly in Thailand. From what you have written above, it seems that your nightmare is far from over. Despite being acquitted, the State Prosecutor is appealing the verdict??? Have I understood correctly? Therefore you are not supposed to leave the country without prior approval from the Court. right?

How long will it take to reach the Supreme Court (Dika Court)? It could be anything from 6 months to 18 months to 2 years right? So in the meantime, your life remains in limbo. Has you lawyer advised you of the timeline? I still find it very hard to understand why - after all you and your wife have been through - why on earth do you want to stay in a country such as this which as treated you like this??

I think you should now be weighing up the possible outcomes if this is going forward to the Dika Court:-

1) You are succesful, win your case and you are declared a free man.

2) You are unsuccessful - what is the minimum and maximum sentence? (Remember that the original sentence handed down by the initial court can also be increased at this point if I understand correctly).

Perhaps something to consider... try and get a sounding via your Lawyer/another Lawyer as to the likelihood of you obtaining compassionate leave for you and your wife to leave the coutry to get medical treatment or visit your or her "sick" mother in NZ/UK and then it is up to you if you return or don't return for the Supreme Court Trial.....

Although you should be aware that the Supreme Court hearing will not be run like it is in the West. In Thailand, your Lawyer and the State Prosecutor will submit all their papers and arguments in advance (I think you have 1 month from when the State Prosecutor files an appeal for you to submit all papers). Then, on the date of the Supreme Court hearing, the verdict which has already been decided, is just read out. So you will not have a chance to speak up at all at the hearing.

I am not sure what happens in the event the defendant is "absent"?????????? i.e. if you and your wife ARE granted leave to exit the country but then YOU decide NOT to return here for the Supreme Court trial. Perhaps you forfeit the case? (Something to find out from your Lawyer or call up the British Embassy for advice).

Depending upon what decision you make, you and your wife can sell your house etc and start again in another country. Or return to a country with a PROPER police force!@

I think you need to now be finding out LOTS of information in terms of dealing with a best case and worst case scenario and the odds. If you have family financial support, you may want to consider engaging another lawyer who specialises in Supreme Court cases and sound them out on your likely verdict.... It pays to be wise in advance as many can tell you from bitter experience.

I would also strongly advise you to get either the British or NZ Embassies on side. What a difference if they can submit a document of support on your behalf and/or attend the Supreme Court Hearing.....

All I would also say is Thailand is just one country, you and your wife have already seen 22 months inside a Thai jail. This will no doubt have left some terrible scars and aged you in ways that many Posters cannot even begin to comprehend. Ask yourself are you really prepared if the verdict does go against you. And I am sorry to say that I would not equate levels of justice at the Supreme Court here with the Supreme Courts in Western countries.

Furthermore, IMO which I may be wrong and apologies if I sound negative here but as a consequence of the above, your name will ALWAYS be flagged in this country. Can you live with the unknown bust and arrest at 2am as you have previously been picked out by the Thai Police? (Those bastions of honour and justice ).

Once again apologies if I seem overly negative, I am just trying to be realistic.

The Very Best of luck and health to you and your wife.

Andiamo

Thank you for your post. Appreciate the advice. All that you say is quite correct. BUT...my wife is Thai, the good people who put their land up to get us out on bail would lose it, if I don't appear in court (over 3 mill which is very low for a case this big, which all the more shows how confident the judges are in our innocence in this case), and the complete lack of evidence with the police. They cant bring in new evidence by law even if there was any. Finally the judges comments during the trial are all down on paper. If you had been there you would have seen what they thought of the police in our case. Yes it will still take a long time for this to go to court - ave about 2 years. Unlikely the prosecutor would appeal again when he loses this one as it is only standard form to appeal a big case like this in any case. Cheers for your help, but will stick around. Their memory span is not that great and they have many other and bigger cases to chase. Mitch. PS: The NZ embassy were with us at court every day and saw that we had things pretty much in control. They said it was very exciting watching the action eg. police and prosecution screaming at each other, police getting shit on their faces with every bit of so called evidence going down in flames! It was quite a show and I am lucky I speak good Thai and could understand 80% of what went down. Mitch.

huh? Didnt you say in another of your posts that you had a house just outside of BKK that is worth 9 million baht? Surely the court would have had you put that up as surety ?

hmmmm...my understanding of the situation is that you were under surveillance by a multinational task force of DEA agencies for quite some time ( at least 5 months) prior to your arrest in Phuket. Why would they take such an interest in such an innoculous person seemingly picked from random? Always fascinates me how completely innocent people come under the watchful eyes of government agencies. Guess the book will help to shed some light on that. Should be an interesting read.