mrmagyar

Has anyone with an LTR visa (Wealthy Pensioner, Wealthy Citizen or WFT) bothered to get a Thai tax ID? I understand that there are no Thai tax obligations with these visas but wondered if anyone had got the tax ID and filed proactively, or planned to do so?

Thank you @YaDongImproved

Does anyone what the typical capital structure looks like for a Thai company setup for owning land? Obviously we all know that it's against the law to use nominee shareholders or such a structure solely for the means of allowing a foreigner to own land. However, it remains common. In such a structure, if one was to setup a Thai company with a couple of friendly Thai shareholders for this purpose is the usual procedure to put in a minimum amount of share capital and then the foreigner would loan the company money to buy land and build? Obviously it makes a difference what that capital structure looks like in the event that relations soured with the Thai partners and suchlike. Thanks

Understood on that. But anything that reconfirms this, from the horses mouth, post-tax changes, would be welcome.

Could you link to the facebook thread please? Or tell us which page it's on?

Well this is something of a curveball for those of us with a freshly minted LTR Visa: https://www.thaienquirer.com/50744/thai-government-to-tax-all-income-from-abroad-for-tax-residents-starting-2024/ The commentary in the second related article suggests this is designed to be aimed at Thai's, but it seems LTR visa holders would be caught in the net: https://www.thaienquirer.com/50748/new-tax-regulations-raises-questions-and-concerns/

Thanks @khunPer, your posts are always very constructive and informative.

Thanks Nigel. That's a useful and informative post and I'd agree on all 3 obstacles raised. I think these are the same challenges faced by any 'company' model for land ownership. The only real difference i'm trying to factor in here is the loan from a foreigner/foreign entity to the Thai trading company. The thinking being that the loan removes any real 'value' from the company itself, and therefore any incentive for malpractice on behalf of lawyers or indeed the Thai shareholders.

Did you read the post?

The company would operate the property as a commercial endeavour, like a guesthouse/hotel.

IV. Foreign Security Interests on Real Property in Thailand While a foreign person or juristic entity may not normally own land in Thailand, it may enjoy security interests on land as a mortgagee-creditor. Section 80 of the Land Code read together with Section 16 of the Financial Institutions Act, B.E. 2551 (2008) allows a foreign person or juristic entity to accept a mortgage without prior approval of the Fiscal Policy Office, Ministry of Finance, on the express condition that the Land Department is satisfied that the mortgage does not fall under the definition of credit foncier and associated business activities according to the Financial Institution Business Act, BE 2551 (2008). Similarly, Section 702 of the CCC and the Land Code does not distinguish between domestic or foreign mortgagees – both having equal rights. Should ownership of real property in Thailand vest with a foreign person or juristic entity, disposal of the property must occur within five years from the date of vesting, which period the Bank of Thailand may extend at its own discretion. https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=3625e95c-61c3-42a0-a2ea-58d57b3aefce

Getting into the weeds of the foreign land ownership conundrum here: Does anyone know if the following structure would be legally workable, and indeed if it's ever used in Thailand? Thai company is formed with the purpose of building and operating residential property for rent (100% Thai) - Company buys land with an interest only mortgage from a foreigner - Company leases land to foreigner (profit generating) - Lease payment covers mortgage interest == no taxable profit I have heard it said before that in this case, the leasee of the land couldn't also be an owner of the company. My thinking is that the mortgage itself prevents any potential issues over claims to the company's assets, as it's effectively indebted to the the foreign mortgagee to the full extent of its assets. (It provides an additional layer of security to the foreigner). In this scenario I would envisage that the company would then operate the property as a rental property (short or long term) and as such, the business is actively trading.

This is very well thought out and put together Chris. I just think it would be misleading in the extreme if the LTR visa holders were expected to pay tax on their earnings here. Given that these questions are simply never asked of the Elite visa holders either, i'm really fairly confident that the intention is that LTR holders are not going to be asked to pay tax. That said, I agree that sufficient ambiguity has been left to make it uncomfortable. But that is the way here. I quote another member recently: "In Thailand there is always engineered uncertainty because that introduces more opportunity for tea money."

I agree that this is the crux of the matter at hand here. The link that @aublumberg refers to directly contradicts your point. And so it would at this stage seem to be an argument between the authority of this Foreign specialist tax advisory, or the Thai tax office. I would also tend to side the Sherrings here. It is both my own understanding and corroborates with conversations i've had directly with the BOI team. I would also expect that the tax office are not completely au fait with the LTR visa legislation and are more likely to be relaying 'safety first' advice. It's good discussion though, and it'd be great to get something conclusive either way.

Yes, you're right there.

Just to add a couple of points here, RE the link. (And hoping to not come across as a douche about it). The article states - "With few exceptions, foreigners will require a work permit to work in Thailand." That's explicitly not the case for Work from Thailand Professionals. The article also states income tax rates but fails to mention the fixed/flat 17% rate that applies to WFTP. I'm not sure just how well informed/researched the author is, based on the above.

Ah yes ok. I always forget that I'm working under the assumption that any income would not be remitted to Thailand in the year in which it was earned. Under that assumption, I understand that there is no tax liability.

Interesting report Chris. To my understanding, this seems to contradict what has been previously discussed and agreed upon in this thread. I was going off Section 5 of this document, which I assumed to imply that tax was not due on income* not brought into Thailand in the year that it was earned: https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Royal Decree issued under the Revenue Code No.743 (EN).pdf

It's 300B. Surely there's bigger fish to fry.

Thaivisacentre were offering them until yesterday. Apparently there's now a big unknown as to when/whether they'll be offering them again in future. Not cheap, mind.

Ah. I flew out to Vietnam for 2 nights. Wasn't expecting any issues. Didn't get any.

I was in Thailand for over 2 years on Tourist Visa -> Exempt -> Covid Extensions -> Volunteer -> Covid Extension until March 2022. Then left for 5 months. Back in Sept 2022. Flying to Vientiane looks a better bet, then stop the night and overland back to Udon Thani the next day. I was hoping to go up to Chiang Mai and make my own way to Chiang Khong but it's going to end up a massive project.

No hassle at all. No questions asked. I had been away for 5 months though, prior to returning in September. Cheers for the visa heads up.

Yep. I try to be philosophical about it. This system of loopholes and ambiguity that often works in our favour has this time worked against us. That same system means that there's almost always still a way (LTR, ED, Biz + WP) What's most frustrating is that there's nobody willing to listen to the rationale and understand it, in this instance. But hey ho.

I hadn't heard about the medical visa issues prior to covid, but they certainly always seemed very strict on the overstay. Ironically, that's why many of us have this f***ing volunteer visa in the first place. Everyone who willingly overstayed after this warning (https://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/easy/1989023/tourists-face-arrest-jail-for-overstaying) was relieved when the amnesty was retrospectively extended a few days later. Those of us who tried to get whatever visa they could in order to prevent an overstay that would prevent us later getting Elite Visas....