Andy F

The fundamentalists and the Big Book Thumpers in AA are free to interpret the Big Book in any way that works for them. That is absolutely fine, so long as they don't try to shove their particular brand of AA down the throats of those who are not interested. Following a recent dialogue with the General Service Office (GSO) of AA in New York, I was informed that the AA program is completely open to personal interpretation. I assume that this includes the AA Big Book. That, too, is open to personal interpretation. The last time I looked, AA was still a pure democracy. You take what you need and leave the rest. The AA conference is mindful that for AA to survive, it had to reassess its position on the use of the word "God" as the only higher power that works. See the link to the "God" word pamphlet. https://www.aa.org/god-word-agnostic-and-atheist-members-aa You tell me that I have not answered your questions/ Why on Earth would I want to do that when I don't want what you have? I am 27 years sober with contented sobriety. I sponsor 5 guys who also identify as atheists, agnostics, and freethinkers. We study the literature. I always tell them they will recover if they make AA their higher power. I remind them that pertinent idea C says, "God could and would if he were SOUGHT". It doesn't say found! As long as the alcoholic remains a spiritual seeker and remains true to himself, he will stay sober and recreate his life. pertinent idea B says, "No human power could relieve our alcoholism." Can you call the collective power of alcoholics in AA a human power? No, collectively. This Group Of Drunks. is definitely a power greater than the individual alcoholic. Relax, guys; we atheists, agnostics, and freethinkers have got it all in hand. Many have not had a drink in years and are happy, joyous and free. In response to that, I suppose you are now going to tell me that "I can't be a REAL alcoholic if I don't believe in God". In all my years in AA, I have never heard such a deluded and psychotic statement from the fundamentalist camp in AA. You guys keep doing what you do if it keeps you sober, and we will keep doing what we do to keep us sober. "LIVE AND LET LIVE" - Popular AA slogan displayed at almost every AA meeting worldwide.

Responsibility Is Our Theme "Newcomers are approaching AA at the rate of tens of thousands yearly. They represent almost every belief and attitude imaginable. We have atheists and agnostics. We have people of nearly every race, culture and religion. In AA we are supposed to be bound together in the kinship of a common suffering. Consequently, the full individual liberty to practice any creed or principle or therapy whatever should be a first consideration for us all. Let us not, therefore, pressure anyone with our individual or even our collective views. Let us instead accord each other the respect and love that is due to every human being as he tries to make his way toward the light. Let us always try to be inclusive rather than exclusive; let us remember that each alcoholic among us is a member of AA, so long as he or she so declares". Bill W. Copyright © AA Grapevine, Inc. (July 1965) " This was the great contribution of our atheists and agnostics. They had widened our gateway so that all who suffer might pass through, regardless of belief or lack of belief." Bill W. I rest my case Have a great Weekend

You are in violation of the third tradition with that kind of rhetoric It has nothing whatever to do with the all-inclusive ethos of Alcoholics Anonymous. Guys like you should be ashamed. You are destroying the unity of AA which has always been the lifeblood of the fellowship. You chose to interpret the AA literature in a way that suits your fear-driven fundamentalist agendas. There is room in AA for every alcoholic irrespective of their belief of lack of belief. What happened to "Live ad Let live"? Utterly pathetic mate! You need to take inventory again to question the authenticity of your spiritual values!

It's not rare at all mate. Atheists like Jim Burwell have been around from AA's very beginning. Since then,Secular AA has become a force to be reckoned with https://www.aasecular.org/

Thank you brother. Point taken. Good luck with your recovery 🙏🌹🙏

Dear Friends In the Chapter on Step 4 in the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, Bill W, the co-founder of AA, makes the following statement about alcoholics in relationships: "The primary fact we fail to recognize is our total inability to form a true partnership with another human being." (p. 53) Could it be true? I hope you enjoy the blog I wrote about it. https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/recovering-alcoholics-in-relationships/ Recovering alcoholics in relationships.lnk Disclaimer The content of this blog is an AA member's personal experience. It does not necessarily represent the ideas, beliefs, or practices of Alcoholics Anonymous.

Thank you for your comments 💟 I agree wholeheartedly. Religious fundamentalism in AA is seriously undermining the unity of the fellowship 🙏

Dear friends, I have written a short book about the dangers of hardcore religious fundamentalism in AA. Although in the minority, there are also cult-like splinter groups that can also be damaging to the sometimes vulnerable newcomer. The book is available as a FREE PDF copy here: https://aaforagnostics.com/ Disclaimer The content of this blog is an AA member's personal experience. It does not necessarily represent the ideas, beliefs, or practices of Alcoholics Anonymous

Jim B, AA's first atheist, convinced Bill to make changes to steps three and eleven in AA's twelve steps We owe the clause "as we understand him" to Jim. Also, Jim got Bill to include the word "suggested" In chapter 5 of the Big Book. "Here are the steps we took which are 'suggested' as a program of recovery." AA is all-inclusive. There is room in AA for all alcoholics seeking a solution to their drinking problem. Atheists, Agnostics, and Freethinkers are just as welcome as those members who believe in God. Have a great 24 hours, everyone!

Dear friends, A big part of my pattern as an active alcoholic was the "geographical cure." I was in full flight from myself and reality. I hope you like the blog I wrote about it. https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/the-geographical-cure/ Disclaimer The content of this blog is a personal experience of recovery from alcoholism. The ideas expressed here do not necessarily reflect the beliefs held by AA as a whole

Atheist, agnostic or freethinker in AA? Free online conference of Secular AA 7 - 8th of October 2023 Please pass it on ????????????

Dear friends. Do some alcoholics in AA also suffer from Narcissistic Personality Disorder? It can end very badly if you ask one to be your sponsor. https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/twelve-step-sponsors-and-narcissism/ Disclaimer The content of this blog is an AA member's personal experience. It is in no way representative of Alcoholics Anonymous

Look, I don't want what you have, so I'm stepping off this conversation. ????

You're interpretation of the AA program is so literal that it takes all the spirituality out of it. My interpretation of honesty, open-mindedess and willingness is spot on because it's based on my own personal experience and has led me to 26 years of content sobriety. With your rigid and anal interpretation of the AA program, I certainly don't want what you have. I've never seen a positive side to your character. You neurotically stick to your interpretation of the program. I bet that in your addiction to rigid control, you never smile or have a good laugh about anything. You are terminally serious and miserable in your rigid fundamentalism. It has all the hallmarks of a dry drunk!

In AA we speak the language of the heart. Stop being so anal about recovery!

If you don't like my material, may I suggest you don't read it. A lot of normal recovering alcoholics appreciate my blogs but you don't strike me as normal in any way! Keep coming back

Thanks Neeranam! ????????????

A very clever man who understood alcoholism inside out! ????????????

Dear friends of Bill. Here is a blog I wrote a while ago. It may be helpful to AA newcomers. I've called it "Honesty, open-mindedness, and willingness." https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/honesty-open-mindedness-willingness/ Disclaimer The content of this blog is an AA member's personal experience. It is in no way representative of Alcoholics Anonymous

Dear friends As an enquiring agnostic, I became interested in exploring diverse spiritual systems to satisfy my thirst for a spiritual experience. In those early days of sobriety, I became something of a spiritual seeker. Well, at least I was in line with pertinent idea C of the AA Big Book. "God could and would if He were sought." BB - Chapter 5 "How it works." p. 60 I hope you like the blog I wrote about it. I have called it "A Truth Seeker in Recovery" https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/a-truth-seeker-in-recovery/

Dear friends in recovery As a drunk, both in and out of AA, I suffered from a "total inability of forming a true partnership with another human being," (12&12 Step Four p.53) Until, I got the Gift Of Desperation (GOD), and did the 12 steps, my relationships were chaotic and unmanageable. The AA program and the suggestions of a sponsor taught me what functional relationships were all about. Here is a blog I wrote, about my relationships as an untreated alcoholic. https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/rescuer-persecutor-victim-triangle/

When I was about five years sober, I became increasingly more addicted to sugary foods. So much so that I had to go to another twelve-step fellowship to overcome this problem. With the help of Overeaters Anonymous (OA), I managed to put down the sugar. Thinking I was now cured I stopped going to those meetings and just continued to treat my alcoholism in AA. This was a big mistake. Very soon an addiction to sugar became a problem again. Some years later, I went back to OA to find abstinence again. What came as a shock was how many alcoholics were dealing with an eating disorder in that fellowship. Well, at least I felt right at home. https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/eating-disorders-and-alcoholism/ Overeaters Anonymous – USA Overeaters Anonymous – UK Food Addicts Anonymous – USA Food Addicts Anonymous - UK Disclaimer Please be advised that I mention four twelve-step fellowships in this blog. They are completely unaffiliated with each other. Moreover, the opinions expressed here do not necessarily represent the ideas, beliefs, and practices of the twelve-step programs mentioned. What I have shared with you are my own experiences of recovery from addiction; in all its different forms. The suggestions I remain willing to take are leading me, an agnostic alcoholic and addict, to a happy and contented life.

Dear friends, When I came to AA, I had a burning desire to stay sober. Yet, I continued to relapse for years! I struggled with coming to believe in any concept of an unseen higher power. For this reason, I avoided working the steps. God and a higher power are mentioned in six of them. This was a mistake that almost cost me my life. Then one day, I was invited to a talk given by a psychiatrist specializing in the treatment of alcoholism. His talk was a game changer in my recovery. I hope you enjoy the blog. https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/getting-to-grips-with-a-higher-power/ Disclaimer The opinions expressed in this blog do not necessarily represent AA's beliefs, opinions, and practices. What I have shared with you are my own experiences of recovery from alcoholism. The suggestions I became willing to take have led me, an agnostic alcoholic, to a contented and meaningful sobriety.

Hi Neeranam. I would certainly be interested in reading your Grapevine article. Have a great 24!

Dear friendsI really enjoyed writing this new blog. Its called: "AA service work"https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/aa-service-work/With regard to service work in AA, I was inspired by an article that Bill Wilson wrote for the Grapevine magazine in 1958. He gave it the title, "The Next Frontier: Emotional Sobriety." It's available free online.It helped me understand that with the help of the twelve steps, I can love and serve my fellow alcoholics as an agnostic. According to Bill, if service in AA is offered unconditionally, it becomes "The primary healing circuit." No need to believe in the traditional idea of God, to benefit from the transformative power of service. Have a great day everyone! Disclaimer The opinions expressed in this blog do not necessarily represent AA's beliefs, opinions, and practices. What I have shared with you are my own experiences of recovery from alcoholism. The suggestions I became willing to take have led me, an agnostic alcoholic, to a meaningful and contented sobriety.