Andy F

Dear friendsI really enjoyed writing this new blog. Its called: "AA service work"https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/aa-service-work/With regard to service work in AA, I was inspired by an article that Bill Wilson wrote for the Grapevine magazine in 1958. He gave it the title, "The Next Frontier: Emotional Sobriety." It's available free online.It helped me understand that with the help of the twelve steps, I can love and serve my fellow alcoholics as an agnostic. According to Bill, if service in AA is offered unconditionally, it becomes "The primary healing circuit." No need to believe in the traditional idea of God, to benefit from the transformative power of service. Have a great day everyone! Disclaimer The opinions expressed in this blog do not necessarily represent AA's beliefs, opinions, and practices. What I have shared with you are my own experiences of recovery from alcoholism. The suggestions I became willing to take have led me, an agnostic alcoholic, to a meaningful and contented sobriety.

Dear friends When I was quite new in my recovery from alcoholism, I noticed a quote in the AA literature which I found very unsettling. It is found in the "Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions," On page 53 in the chapter on step 4, is the following quote: "The primary fact we fail to recognize is our complete inability to form a true partnership with another human being." Was it true? In my case it certainly was. In recovery, I tried one relationship after another. Sooner or later they all fell apart. It was not a pleasant experience. Then I went through the twelve steps with a sponsor. Gradually, I began to learn how to have more honest and functional relationships. I came to see that codependency was just one aspect of my untreated alcoholism. I hope you enjoy the blog I wrote about it. https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/relationships-in-aa/ Disclaimer The opinions expressed in this blog do not necessarily represent AA's beliefs, opinions, and practices. What I have shared with you are my own experiences of recovery from alcoholism. The suggestions I became willing to take have led me, an agnostic alcoholic, to a contented and meaningful sobriety.

I arrived in AA on the 15th May 1984. It was wonderful to find myself in a group of people that were so similar to me. That said, I didn’t take the idea of getting a sponsor and working the steps seriously at all. Frequent references to God and a higher power made me wonder if AA was some kind of a cult. I tried to stay sober on fellowship alone. A decade later, only after several near fatal collisions with alcohol, I finally received the Gift Of Desperation. (GOD) The only thing I hadn’t tried was to get a sponsor. It was my last option; otherwise I was a lost cause. I asked David B to sponsor me and began following Good Orderly Direction. (GOD) This blog is in the way of a tribute to David B (R.I.P.) I have no doubt that his particular style of sponsorship, saved my life. I hope you enjoy the blog. https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/david-b-a-top-gun-aa-sponsor/ Disclaimer The opinions expressed in this blog do not necessarily represent AA's beliefs, opinions, and practices. What I have shared with you are my own experiences of recovery from alcoholism. The suggestions I became willing to take have led me, an agnostic alcoholic, to a contented and meaningful sobriety.

Dear friends The eight bedevilments appear on page 52 of the AA Big Book. I was first introduced to them when I joined a Big Book Study. They are presented as symptoms of untreated alcoholism. I was 25 years in the fellowship before I learned about them. They came as a shock because they were as much my reality sober, as they were when I was drinking. Although I am still an enquiring agnostic, I came to believe that recovery from the bedevilments involved a spiritual, not psychological solution. A spiritual way of life has not required a belief in a monotheistic God. I hope you enjoy the blog https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/aa-bedevilments/ Disclaimer The opinions expressed in this blog, do not necessarily represent the beliefs, opinions and practices held by AA as a whole. What I have shared with you are my own experiences of recovery from alcoholism. The suggestions that I became willing to take, have led me, an agnostic alcoholic, to a full and meaningful sobriety.

Second only to the AA Big Book, The Twelve Steps and twelve Traditions is an all important AA publication. On p. 57 in the chapter on step 5, Bill W, one of the co-founders of AA, declares: "Almost without exception, alcoholics are tortured by loneliness." In early recovery from alcoholism, this was certainly my experience. https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/loneliness-vs-solitude/ Disclaimer The opinions expressed in this blog, do not necessarily represent the beliefs, opinions and practices held by AA as a whole. What I have shared with you are my own experiences of recovery from alcoholism. The suggestions that I became willing to take, have led me, an agnostic alcoholic, to a full and meaningful sobriety.

Dear friends of Bill On page 53 of the 12 steps and 12 traditions, Bill W makes a statement that I found shocking. In the chapter about step 4, Bill writes: "The primary fact we fail to recognize is our total inability to form a true partnership with another human being." Both drunk and sober, I had one dysfunctional relationship after another. Sooner or later, they all fell apart. My first ever experience of honesty in my dealings with another human being was with my AA sponsor. After going through the 12 steps with him, I began to discover what healthy love even was. I hope you like the blog I wrote about it. https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/recovering-alcoholics-in-relationships/

Dear friends. Here is something that may appeal to those AA members that do not believe in God. They are just as welcome in AA as those that use a monotheistic God as their higher power Have a great 24 hours everyone ???????????? See attached:

Thank you so much for sharing that Scorecard. Your somewhat anxiety provoking experience illustrates a very important point. No one and I mean no one should impose their religious or spiritual beliefs on anyone if they don't ask for it and are not ready to hear it. As in this case, it only distressed the young girls to be subjected to an onslaught of ideas that these girls didn't want or ask for . This is pure religious fundamentalism and as such is not coming from a place of love but of fear. This raises the question, was the intention of this religious intervention in the girls best interests? Was it in the interests of their highest good? Of course not! It was in the self- serving interest of the two American women. The same exact principle applies in AA. Never, ever shove God down a vulnerable newcomers throat when they are not ready to hear it. Any type of fundamentalism is driven by self-serving agendas and fear. How secure where these women in their faith, that they needed to kidnap these girls to validate their own beliefs at the expense of these girls? If they were really secure in their faith, there would be no need to "use" these girls to validate their own fragile faith. Thanks again for sharing that story. Everyone on this forum needed to hear it! ????❤️????

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. If God works for you then great! A lot of sober members in AA don't believe in God. They pursue a spiritual awakening that doesn't require a believe in God. Those that pursue Buddhism are a case in point. The bottom line is that Bill always wanted to make AA ALL INCLUSIVE. The spiritual principle of AA is that EVERYONE is welcome. The believers, atheists, agnostics and freethinkers. "The ONLY requirement for AA .membership is a desire to stop drinking" Any other position is not AA. It's fundamentalism. Why AA even embraces the AA fundamentalists. "Live and let Live" If I helped to convince a cynical newcomer that it's not compulsory to believe in God to get sober and stay sober, if my blog convinces them that there are a whole load of other higher powers in AA that are just as effective then it was worth writing. You're a member of AA if you say you are. Irrespective of your personal belief system.

The General Service Office of AA in New York assured me that the AA program is open to "personal interpretation" I can assure you that many alcoholics have left AA or avoided trying the AA program because they felt unable to use God as a higher power. It is them that have been led astray by the sometimes rigid and closed -minded views of the more fundamentalist members

Dear friends, I came to AA in 1984 after twenty years of hard drinking. I loved the fellowship from my first meeting. Being an agnostic in AA turned out to be a big challenge. I felt unable to use any concept of a higher power as a helpful recovery tool. Eventually, I found an agnostic-friendly sponsor and my life was saved. Over the years, I have observed many alcoholics come and go. How many walk away because they don't feel able to surrender to the suggested program of action? God or a higher power is mentioned in six of the twelve steps. One wonders how many avoid coming to AA because they see it as some kind of quasi-religion. I wrote this blog to try and demystify the question of what an effective higher power could be for someone that doesn't believe in God. AA works whether you believe in God or not. Its now 25 years since I last relapsed. I am now enjoying a contented and peaceful sobriety. I was a low-bottom drunk that came from the streets. I remain an agnostic who recreated their life in Alcoholics Anonymous. I hope you enjoy the blog: https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/what-is-a-higher-power/

If your brand of AA is keeping you sober and happy that's great! As an agnostic in AA my higher powers are "Love and service" to the still suffering alcoholic. I do not impose any belief systems on my sponsees. I let them find their own way. If they clear away the wreckage of the past and become interested in helping other Alcoholics through love and service then that in my mind, is a valid spiritual awakening. No need to bring a monotheistic, anthropomorphic God into this. LOVE is the Higher Power that gets alcoholics well.

Sorry, not interested. I am "happy, joyous and free" (BB p 133) as a sober member of AA. The twelve promises on pages 83 and 84 are good enough for me. These days, I wear my sobriety like a lose garment. I don't need the rigid, fear-driven slavery of Big Book fundamentalism. If you believe that AA is all-inclusive, then could you kindly refrain from projecting your particular brand of AA onto sober members that don't want what you offer. Most of us are happily sober. There is room in AA for everyone. The believers as well as the atheists, agnostics and freethinkers. Any other position is rigid and closed-minded. Where is the spirituality in that?

An agnostic interpretation of the twelve promises found on pages 83/84 of The Big Book of AA ???????????? https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/the-promises-of-aa/

Thanks Tropposurfer. It would certainly seem that the Big Book Nazis cannot tolerate anyone else's reality but the exclusive one they have created for themselves ????

in part three of an AA publication, Bill Wilson (the co-founder of AA) wrote an article for the Grapevine magazine. He called it; "The next frontier; emotional sobriety." He was 24 years sober when he wrote it. I hope you like the blog I wrote about it ???????????? https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/the-language-of-the-heart/

Dear friends Hope you like a blog that I wrote about a well known circuit speaker in AA - Clancy I (R.I.P. ????) https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/clancy-aa-speaker/ In fellowship Andy F https://aaforagnostics.com/

Hi brother, I'm afraid I can't pull a rabbit out of the hat for you but I also have dysfunctional kidneys. If you find a cheaper source of the product your doctor recommended, I would be very grateful for a heads up. Best wishes and good luck sourcing a better price ????????????

"All fundamentalism is born out of fear" - Lord Soper. A British Methodist minister and peer of the House of Lords. What are you so afraid of that you cling so passionately to your fundamentalist beliefs You can't be that secure in your faith in God if you need to defend it so strongly. You're arrogant and dishonest enough to suggest that I can't be a "real alcoholic" if I haven't worked the twelve steps as per your rigid prescription. You don't know me and you weren't there when I was a homeless drunk on the streets of London. It's doesn't get anymore dishonest then that! If I wasn't a real alcoholic, I wouldn't have kept relapsing for my first 13 years in AA. For all I know, you were a white collar alcoholic with a good career? My career was alcoholism from when I was a young teenager. I have now been sober in AA for twenty five years. At the moment I am sponsoring 4 people through the first 164 pages of the Big Book. Some of my sponsees believe in God and that's fine. I don't interfere with their belief system. My higher power is now universal consciousness. It is still also still the AA group and the suggestions of an agnostic-friendly sponsor. Your difficulty with the expression "non God centered spiritual awakening" is also dishonest. How many spiritually awakened Buddhists are there in AA? As Buddhists, they don't believe in God. Does that make them any less spiritual? When I encounter fundamentalists in AA, I know that they hide behind fundamentalism because they are not secure in their own belief system. According to tradition 3, we both have a perfect right to be in AA. Lets us then just agree to disagree and "Live and let live" Trust me Likerdup1, I'm a real alcoholic. I now have a life beyond my wildest dreams as an agnostic member of AA. I love Bob D and Joe and Charlie but they never struck me as fanatic members of the AA God squad. There are more and more secular groups forming in AA. These secular members may not have survived in AA without secular groups. Many of us are now old timers and definitely "real alcoholics." Most of us are enjoying a happy and contented sobriety. My first sponsor told me that the third step decision is simply a decision to go on with the rest of the steps. In step 12 we are not promised a God awakening but a spiritual awakening. In my mind, any alcoholic that tries to practise "Love and service" (Dr. Bob) in AA and is actively trying to overcome "Selfishness and self-centeredness" has, in my mind, had a spiritual awakening. This is true whether he believes in God or not. Ever read "The dilemma of no faith" by Bill W? Have a great 24 brother! PS. By the way, I don't agree with everything in the Big Book. I suppose that must mean I'm not a "real" alcoholic? ????

You have a very rigid and fundamentalist understanding of the AA literature. Have you ever considered how many frightened and bewildered newcomers you are scaring away from AA with your kind of Big Book fundamentalism? ???? Let's be clear. Working all the steps, no matter how perfectly you work them, does not necessarily bring about a God awakening. If they bring about a spiritual awakening then that's good enough. ...... Or would you call that a half measure?? You keep saying "The AA way" Yes, your interpretation of the Big Book WAS the AA way but not anymore. Times have changed. "The AA way" these days is beautifully described in this AA conference approved pamphlet. This has now become "The AA way" https://www.aa.org/god-word-agnostic-and-atheist-members-aa In fellowship

"No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints. The point is that we are willing to grow along spiritual lines. We claim spiritual progress not perfection" - The half measures to which you are referring only applies to a 100% acceptance of step one. If we are willing to grow along spiritual lines (which doesn't necessarily mean believing in God), we are 100% on the program of Alcoholics Anonymous ????????????

Dear friends I'm a recovering alcoholic/addict in AA that identifies as an agnostic. I hope you like this new blog about my journey in the fellowship towards a non-God-centered spiritual awakening. Its been a fulfilling and worthwhile journey https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/a-truth-seeker-in-recovery/

Dear friends, I hope you like this new blog. Its about how, as an agnostic alcoholic, I was able to interpret the "How it works" reading in chapter 5 of the AA Big Book https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/chapter-5-how-it-works/

Have you ever heard of tradition 3 mate. Clearly you are unaware, that "The only requirement for AA membership, is a desire to stop drinking" That includes atheists, agnostics and freethinkers that come to AA with a desire to stop drinking! Why we even welcome psychopaths and Narcissists. ❤️

My word,........Do I hear some closed minded, rigid, fundamentalist BS on this platform. Read about James Burwell, an early member of AA who was also an atheist. Thanks to him, thousands if not millions of alcoholics, who despite the God word, have found a solution in Alcoholics Anonymous