Flyguy330

Do you pay tax in the UK on your rental income? Can you produce documentation showing how much you've paid? Are you going to remit that taxed rental income to Thailand? If your answers are all YES then you shouldn't have to pay tax in Thailand because the UK has a DTA and you've already been taxed there. If your answers are NO (but you do remit the money to Thailand) then you may be facing tax in Thailand on that remittance - if they go ahead with this new law in Jan 2024.

I get this guys emails on a near daily basis. That's really too often IMHO. Last week he sent one out reccomending Malaysia as a retirement destination - fair enough. But one of the points made was 'Pensions are not taxed in Malaysia'. If you're a Malaysian receiving a Malaysian pension that may be true. But his emails are aimed at Expats. Expat pensions being remitted to Malaysia are NOT tax exempt, as he sweepingly stated. They MAY be tax exempt under certain conditions, primarily if they've ALREADY been taxed in a DTA partner nation. I wrote to him pointing this out. Still waiting on a retraction or correction.

Maybe in Thai. But in the UK/IRL it has a rather different translation. Maybe you're not a Brit and don't get that. Lighten up FFS.

Thanks for all the replies guys. For my own reasons of leaving my homeland (Ireland) for SE Asia, I'd say - All Of The Above. But to be more specific; Weather features highly. I always detested the cold damp climate, the early evenings and freezing mornings. Next, Tax. Tax. TAX. In my job I was taxed until I bled. PAYE Tax (42%+). Then VAT (26%+). PRSI (Social Welfare Charges 10%+). Outrageous Stamp Duties, Capital Gains Taxes, huge VRT taxes, Road Taxes. And they kept dreaming up new ones - Water Charges, Bin Taxes, blah blah blah.... Now I pay ZERO tax, and that's how I aim to keep it. Take heed Thai Guv. General cost of living. I'm based in Malaysia at the moment. Everday staples cost me a 3rd to a 1/4 of what they cost back home. Coupled with no tax, I can live like a king. The people - vast majority are friendly and polite. Great service culture. Everyone here speaks English! What a benefit that is! Safe. Never been hassled or threatened. Never been robbed. Never burgled. Great for kids. No drug culture. Respect for elders. No feral kids AT ALL. No stabbings every day. Good schools (if you can pay). Entertainment - no bar girls (well, actually there are, if you know where to look), but great pubs, restaurants, sports facilities etc. Food - did I not mention FOOD? Should be up top of the list. Malaysian, Chinese, Indian, Thai, Indonesian, Western. Everything you could want and cheap. I could go on - cheap petrol (40 Euro Cents per Ltr!!), and low car running costs. Decent roads, great beaches and islands, cheap flights, improving infrastructure (MRT). I'd only move full time to Thailand if the tax situation required it and was beneficial. But I have the LTR Visa ready. I also like Bali. Bit too tax-y though.....

Mr. Anurak? Is that really his name?

Have to say I agree with Terek. The amount of wasted time and energy spent shuffling bits of paper around by civil servants amounts to little more than jobs for the boys in many areas. I'm referring here to personal taxation on individuals, not corporate or wealth taxes. Think of the cost to the state of running this whole system. I've tried looking for figures, but with no success. If anyone can find some hard numbers I'd like to see them. High personal income taxes are an obstacle to employment. Many people in western nations see no point in taking a job when - after tax deduction - it earns them only a few quid more than they'd make on the dole. The personal tax system is convoluted and opaque, and as Terek rightly said, it helps create more jobs for 'tax advisors' and 'specialists'. Just read the comments in this thread and you'll see how well liked and trusted they are. Have you guys ever heard of the 'Robin Hood Tax'? It was a UK campaign inspired by the scandals of the global banking crisis in 2010, where big banks were bailed out by taxpayers, and the bankers continued paying themselves million pound bonuses throughout. The campaign proposed a small tax on all banking transactions that did not include members of the public (Bonds, Derivatives, Currency speculation etc). The tax amount proposed was a piffling .005% of the banks revenues on these transactions. The sum it would raise was reckoned to be in excess of 100 Billion GBP per annum. Almost half the total UK Income tax intake. If you doubled it to .010% (and fired all the income tax collectors and paper pushers) it would probably approach the total income tax take in the UK, meaning wages could be zero rated for tax. Of course the proposal was met with derision and disgust from the bankers, and eventually ran out of support. Even the website the campaigners set up is dead. But there's still one great video left on Youtube, featuring Bill Nighy as a banker being grilled about the proposal. One of my all time faves. Check it out here; In a world where AI is predicted to replace all jobs in the not too distant future, and where Universal Basic Income (UBI) is again being proposed for that scenario - perhaps Income Tax is a dead duck anyway.

I'm not a full time Thai resident, but I've obtained my LTR Visa. I'm living in Malaysia, and while I'm happy here at present I like to have a bolt hole, in case plans change. So for me, Thailand is just an alternative home in Asia. How about you? Why did you choose to live in Thailand rather than any other country?

Party like a Russian! Not....

The Hong Kong Chinese deserve a mention too. Boy, I've got stories....

I have to add my vote for The French. I have some experience to base that on - 20 years of owning a holiday home there. The country is absolutely beautiful, but the people are generally such miserable barstewards. Not only to foreigners, but to each other. I initially had some respect for how they wouldn't let 'Anglo-Saxon' (as they like to call english speakers) attitudes to work and play ruin their 2 hour lunch breaks and laissez faire ethics. But the first AGM of our condo that I attended was a real eye opener. It went on for 8 hours and was filled with screaming and shouting, often over absolutely petty issues. My last visit there, in June, I winessed (and videoed) one neighbour punching another to the ground (a 75 year old man) and having to be held back from further attack by passers by. This was because (apparently) the 75 year old was smoking a cigarette outside the apartment of the attacker and told him to go f**k himself when asked to stop. I finally had it and sold the place in October. Every Tom Dick and Harry who had any input to the sale process took a hefty big chunk of the proceeds. So glad I've escaped. I still get the local newspaper - the French Government seem to make a new and more bizarre law every single day - I'm not exagerating. It's like they are obsessed with screwing each other over relentlessly.

Hi K2938; First off, you know what a DTA is? It's the acronym for 'Dual Tax Agreement'. These are agreements signed between countries to prevent people/companies being taxed in both countries on the same money. Normally there will be a statement in the agreement specifying in which country the taxable monies are to be taxed, and an equal exemption is given from taxation in the other contracting country. If your money originates from a country having a DTA with your new home (Thailand/Malaysia, wherever...) and you can show it has already been taxed in the origin country, then you should not be taxed again on it when you remit (send) it to your new home country. Regarding your bulletin points; 1. Not ALL funds. Specifically those which have been taxed in the origin country (at a minimum of 15%). They may ask for proof (Certs). 2. I've worked in several Asian countries which have a DTA with my home country. I've read each of them. There's a standard 'format', almost a cut and paste document, except there are always minor differences from country to country. You need to read each one carefully, or get help with it. 3. No - but remember, I'm just a bloke on the interweb. I'm not a tax advisor. And rules constantly change. Better to do your own due diligence. I'm only relating my own experience so far.

Ah, I see where the confusion is. What I'm saying is that Malaysia does not tax foreign sourced income (inc pensions) UNLESS and UNTIL you remit such earnings. There's absolutely no question of Malaysia looking to levy tax on Malaysian tax residents foreign income while it's still overseas (like the US does). Does Thailand tax your foreign income irrespective of remittance? I kinda got that idea from some of the comments here. Nasty.... When remitting money to Malaysia, yes, the new Remittance Tax applies (dated to 1st Jan 2022). But as I've said before, you can produce a 40 year old tax cert and they'll exempt the remittance for that amount. There's no requirement to prove the specific income remittance was taxed, only that you have PAID tax on an equivalent amount. Strange as it may seem - I see the logic. It would be a nightmare to scrutinise every single remittance declaration to confirm the particular monies are 'sterile' from co-mingling with untaxed money in the same remitting account. I really do get the feeling Malaysia doesn't like this whole remittance tax idea, but they've been arm twisted into it by the bloody Yanks who want to control the whole world it seems. By the way, I wrote an email to my local friendly tax person in LHDN today about the property I recently sold in europe. She confirmed that there will be NO TAX on the remittance of the proceeds, neither FSI tax nor CGT. Happy days.

Are you confusing Malaysia and Thailand in that post Stat? Malaysia DOES NOT tax residents foreign income - unless you remit it to Malaysia from a non DTA country (and/or with no tax paid proof). The 'tax paid proof' is extremely lenient, as I described above.

There are at least FOUR different ways to become tax resident in Malaysia. Check them out on this page; https://taxresidents.com/malaysia-my-second-home/ The 180/90 day rule is the one I personally used. On first arrival in Malaysia I spent 6 months settling in. That also established tax residency. After that I went off travelling, and doing contract jobs around Asia. But I made sure to return to Malaysia on at least 90 days in every subsequent year. Got my residency certs every year on that basis.

Correct!

Stat, the crucial thing for me is to maintain Malaysian tax residency, which means the Irish taxman can't tax my Irish pension at source. The rest is just about arranging my location to reduce tax on remittances - or reduce the remittances to zero.

Yes Misty, the way I'd do it is to spend 179 days in Thailand (if that's the preferred main base) then do 90 days (or as much extra as desired) in Malaysia, that gives you Malaysian Tax residencey. Then you can use the other 90 (or less) days to travel the region, or visit home. Or just stay put in Malaysia the remainder of the tax year. Rinse and repeat. Maybe not everyones cup of tea, but if the tax savings are significant I'd be doing it. It's good to have options. By the way - these 'days in country' don't have to be consecutive, or in blocks. So you could just hop back and forth every couple of months if preferred. Just need to keep close tabs on the dates. You can then remit all you like to TH tax free. Bring up to 10K USD cash into Malaysia every trip, tax free.

Just for info - in case anyone is considering a move to Malaysia in order to gain Tax Residency there to avoid tax residency in Thailand. You only have to spend 180 days in Malaysia in your first year. After that you can maintain tax residency by only spending 90 days there in a year. This might be of value to folks who want to lose their Thai tax residency, but need to have a 'Tax Residence' somewhere nearby, and don't really want to move full time to Malaysia.

Sorry Stat, I overlooked this question yesterday. It's a good question - about co-mingling funds from different sources in a bank account. I don't have an explicit ruling on that from the Malaysian tax authorities, however they gave me a written reply to a similar question which might be extrapolated to it. The savings I have overseas come from taxed income. I asked them if they needed me to prove the provenance of every penny I remit to Malaysia in order to prove it was from previously taxed income. Their reply was that it doesn't matter to them, as long as I can provide a tax paid cert or similar showing I paid some (at least 15%) tax on a sum equal to the remitted sum! I was so shocked by that lenient answer that I asked them to confirm it, and asked if they meant I could even backdate such a tax cert to my first pay cheque 40+ years ago. They replied YES! I know that sounds unbelievable, and I still don't really trust that answer, but I'm planning on 'experimenting' with it by remitting only small sums this year and I'll make a tax return showing tax I paid decades ago and see their reaction. I may be being over optimistic, but so far all my dealings on this with the Malaysian IRD have been very friendly, and they almost seem to be bending over backward to accomodate me and prevent me being caught by this remittance tax. Yes, I know, that sounds bizarre behaviour from a taxman, but that's the feeling I'm getting. I think it's possible that at Government level they've been told to ease off on expats doing remittances - or maybe even only retired expats. And meantime the review of the MM2H rules is still in the pipeline, and I'm holding out hope that the Government will conclude that it's not wise to apply a remittance tax to foreign pensioners if they seriously want to attract them here. Common sense might actually triumph! Fingers crossed.

Yes indeed, as a non tax resident that's possible. I'd be sending EUR to collect in Thailand, then bring them to Malaysia for exchange to RM there. I'm not sure it's even possible to convert currency into RM in Thailand - there are still currency controls in Malaysia dating back to the Asian Financial Crisis. The them PM, Mahathir Mohamed instigated them to stop international speculators (like G.Soros) from attacking the Ringgit. It worked too, it has to be said, though it's a bit inconvenient that they are still in place. It basically stops you buying the Ringgit OTC anywhere but in Malaysia. You can't hold a Ringgit account in banks outside Malaysia. Not that I'd really want to!

One other thing I want to comment on - there was some mention here that proceeds from a foreign property sale imported to Thailand are NOT tax exempt. In Malaysia such proceeds are indeed tax exempt, according to the Malaysian IRD themselves and every big accountancy firm confirms it. So you can sell a foreign property and import the proceeds without being hit for remittance tax. This rule could of course be changed any day. One other thing that I think gives Malaysia an advantage over Thailand is that foreigners can buy and own property (land included) in Malaysia Freehold, and without any funny business with 51% local owners and 'pre signed releases' from locals etc. Not many (any?) other countries in Asia allow this. Alright, Singapore and Hong Kong maybe. But Indonesia? Vietnam etc? You cannot own property freehold as a foreigner. I've known expat friends who lived here for years, owning property, and when it came their time to leave they sold up and then applied to export the proceeds. They got their monney out after the usual bureaucratic hoops were jumped through. I find that reassuring too. Not so sure about Thailand from the comments here. So I guess I will not be buying, if I need to stay at all. Thanks Ben Zioner. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting until next year to see what actually pans out. No rush.

Morning all, Stat, the remittance tax is being done by self reporting. In the past 12 years I lived in Malaysia I never had to file a tax return. Now I do. If I don't they'll come after me. They are quite well organised here in many respects, especially when it comes to getting taxes I think. I could of course lie, and declare nothing. But if you get audited and caught fiddling - the likely consequence is being kicked out of the country, which I definitely don't want. Anyway, I didn't go into the details very much in my last post, but there are legal avoidance methods. The Malaysians have stated that if you can show your declared remittances come from taxed income in a country with a DTA you can exempt them. At least for now. There's some rumouring that this too will change in 2026 (the Gov said that while they reversed their ealier promise of no remittance tax until 2026 they would still allow DTA exemptions until then). They also said that right now they'd apply a 15% tax, but in 2026 it would go to the FULL marginal tax rate in Malaysia (which I think is about 40% now - same as my home country). I can indeed prove that my cash imports at present come from saved income, and I have all the paperwork to prove that. But I'm still only trickling in funds, in case they announce yet another policy reversal.

I've been reading this thread since it started, though I haven't had time to read every page. Been busy with other stuff at times! I have a few minutes now and I'd like to make a few comments. My own story first. I'm an Irish guy based in Malaysia on an MM2H Visa. I first arrived in Malaysia for a short 1 year work assignment in 1992 before returning home. I met a lady here and brought her home with me. We became regular holiday visitors back to Malaysia and I liked the place a lot. The MM2H Visa program evolved out of a previous 'Silver Hair' retirement program and I decided I'd retire here on it when I became eligible. The MM2H program at the time was advertised as a tax free visa - which was the biggest draw of all. We moved to Malaysia in 2010 and have been very happily resident there, living completely tax free on my occupational pension. The tax saving is huge (about 40%) and the cost of living here is half or one third of back home. The weather is great. The food choice is superb. Property is cheap. Everyone (more or less) speaks english. I've never had a problem with the locals, they are generally friendly and polite. The country is modern - certainly KL is. The infrastructure is miles ahead of home. So what's the problem I hear you ask? Why am I on a Thai forum! The answer goes back to 2020 when Covid struck. Malaysia went into lockdown, and although I was fortunately 'in country' when that happened, many MM2H holders were 'locked out' and refused re-entry for almost a year. In addition the MM2H program was frozen and the interim Government announced they were reviewing the scheme. In October 2021 things began moving again, the lockdown restrictions on interstate travel were lifted and the new MM2H criteria were announced. They were horrendously demanding, and it was said they'd apply even to existing MM2H holders on renewal. They also moved the management of the program from the friendly Tourist Board to the nasty and corrupt Immigration Department. Applications for MM2H visas went through the floor. At the same time the Malaysian Government announced that on January 1st 2022 they were going to bring in a 'Remittance Tax' on all money sent into the country from abroad. They declared that this rule was forced on them by the OECD - and the USA - as a money laundering/taxation loophole solution. This was confirmed by major foreign accountancy firms in Malaysia (PWC etc) who said that it was part of a global push to ensure EVERYONE pays a minimum 15% tax EVERWHERE. They stated that Malaysia was being 'grey listed' by the international bank of settlements, and they could be completely black-listed and locked out of the global SWIFT system if they refused to comply. I know that somecontributors on this thread have poo-poed this excuse, but I do think there is no doubt the threat exists. Check this link: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/08/business/oecd-global-minimum-tax.html This news upset me a lot, and indeed it upset many Malaysians too - people who were living or working abroad and sending money home to support elderly relatives etc. Indeed the Sultan of Johor made a lot of noise about it, mainly because his state was the recipient of a lot of FDI from Chinese property buyers. The complaints grew so loud that - surprise surprise - the Government relented, and in December announced a 5 year delay on the implementation of their 'Foreign Sourced Income (FSI)' tax. We all breathed a sigh of relief. No change until 2026. In July 2022 I went home on holidays. When I got back to Malaysia one of the first news articles I read announced that the Malaysian Government had just 'gazetted' (ratified) the FSI law, and BACKDATED it to January 1st! A total reversal of what they promised, and with retrospective effect. This is another point that I've wanted to comment on while reading through this forum. Some posters have made rosy tinged comments about how 'stable' the rules are in Malaysia compared to Thailand. Do not be under any such delusion! Malaysian politics is a swamp and a nightmare. It is the worst thing about living in the country. There is a constant state of political turmoil. Just like Thailand. This is Asia. Things were relatively OK here until 2018 when the long ruling party UMNO were kicked out of Government. While that was widely welcomed, and there was great hope for the future when it happened, things have just spiralled out of control since then. I won't go into all the details - but stop believing Malaysia is in any way politically stable, or likely to be any time in the next decade. The other point to note is - they will change the rules of the game at the drop of a hat, and tough luck if you're caught out. Amazingly for me it was just around this time that Thailand announced the LTR Visa scheme. As you all know it included a 'Royal Decree' that LTR Visa holders would be exempt from tax in Thailand. On the face of it this was a perfect solution for me. If I could get the LTR Visa I could hop in and out of Thailand at will, reduce my spending in Malaysia, and even bring legal amounts of cash back with me on return to Malaysia. We do not want to leave Malaysia, especially since the DTA that exempts my Irish Pension from tax at source depends on the Malaysian tax residency remaining in force. I duly applied for the LTR Visa. The application process was superb. Great website, easy to complete, fast response from the BOI in perfect English, and a basic eligibility approval in 2 weeks. Another few documents were requested and provided, and I got my letter of approval in about 6 weeks since first application - the WP version. Everything was going ticketyboo, but a little nag in the back of my mind kept asking - if this 15% tax thing is being forced on all countries worldwide, how can Thailand be exmpt from it? I filed the thought away and enjoyed a couple of visits to Thailand this summer (BKK and Phuket). Had a great time - though I will say I found Thailand more expensive than Malaysia, less clean and organised, and the poverty of many of the people is much more striking on the streets. There's an air of desperation which I didn't like, and don't see in Malaysia. Of course you know the rest of the story. My nagging question suddenly became the news of the day last month. Thailand announced that all FSI would be taxable next January 1st! Forced on them by the Globalists! So the net is closing. All the 'little people' will be required to cough up. Wherever they are. There may be doubts as to the fine detail of all this, both in Malaysia (where a review of the MM2H rules is underway by the NEW government) and in Thailand where the rules seem to be a total grey area and may remain so forever. Sorry this was so long, I hope you found it useful, but the final takeaway is - don't believe that Malaysia is any better than Thailand when it comes down to rule bending and breaking.

Thanks for the replies. Opinions seem mixed. I’ll try them out anyhow since it may ease the cost of transfers from a UOB account in my home country to a UOB account in Thailand.

Anyone using UOB Bank in Thailand? Are you happy with them? I’ve read numerous threads about the other big Thai banks and there seems to be so much difficulty opening an account with them as a foreigner. I have a UOB account already in another Asian nation and I’m hoping that will make it easier to open one with them in Thailand. Any reasons not to use them here?