Mike Lister

Soooo, if nobody were to pay tax, who will pay for the schools, the hospitals and health care system, the airports, the roads, care of the national parks and all the other things?

Yes, for now.

It's all online, you can do it from home once registered. In a worst case scenario, we're all obliged to file a return, that doesn't mean the RD will do anything with them. But if the tax filer completes a return that shows they owe money and offers to pay, great. Or if the banks records throw up dubious imported income that wasn't declared, maybe they'll have a peek. There's lots of possible scenarios.

It's a simple enough process, albeit we don't know yet what issues the new rules might bring.

If you have income of over THB 120k per year in Thailand, including imported income that is assessable to tax in Thailand and, you were resident here for more than 180 days in the tax year, yes.

Perhaps this a regional difference or perhaps it varies by hospital size, I'm unsure. In Chiang Mai, where I live, I did explore having a 10 year colonoscopy and endoscopy at a government hospital. My local Amphur hospital (quite large and fairly new) said I would need to go to the District hospital where my (Thai) wife and I discussed things with the gastroenterology department who said the things I posted above. I understand that the Amphur hospital doesn't have a the facilities, which is why I was referred up the chain. This is also why I was surprised when the earlier poster said he was able to get one on request, from the Koh Samui government hospital.

Ah yes, the old, I swerved to avoid a dog plea, followed by, and then the brakes failed.

Hay There's a work around....file your taxes on time!

I did have the combination package a couple of years ago in Chiang Mai and the price of 36k was accurate. I think the standard price in Bangkok is perhaps quite a bit higher.

If a loan is for a vehicle, it is secured, only personal loans and credit card debt is unsecured.

We’ll keep the example very simple, on purpose! If consumer lending (CL) is 10 baht and GDP is 100 baht, CL = 10% of GDP. But if GDP falls to 90 whilst CL remains the same, CL = 11% of GDP. The CL percentage of GDP appears to have increased but it hasn’t, the base GDP figure against which CL is measured has dropped. In a second example using different currencies: CL = 10 baht and GDP = USD 5 and the exchange rate is 32, CL as a % of GDP = 10 baht / (5*32)% or 6.35% But then the Baht exchange rate weakens from 32 to 38 so CL = 10 baht / (5*38)% or 5.26%. In this example the Baht has weakened which shows CL as a lower percentage of GDP. Next, GDP falls from 5 to 4 so CL = 10 baht / (4*38)% or 6.57%. This fall in GDP shows CL as a higher percentage of GDP yet the value of CL has remained unchanged. Finally, the ex rate reverts to 32 but GDP is still low at 4 so CL = 10 baht / (4*32)% or 7.81% - (this is where we are headed currently) Ergo Any change in GDP will alter the headline CL percentage, even though the value of CL is flat. The problem is further compounded during periods of exchange rate volatility. If you repeat the above calculations using s constant CL (which the earlier SCB graph suggests) but actual GDP numbers/ex rates, (GDP of USD 544 bill in 2019 and an ex rate of 29.60, versus, GDP of USD 495 bill. In 2022 and an ex rate of 38), you should get the picture. During the past four years, the USD/THB exchange rate has been extremely volatile, during the past year alone it has moved between 32 and 38. During the past FOUR YEARS, it has moved between 29 and 38, THB is now arguably at the start of a strengthening phase. GDP has also fallen from a high of USD 544 bill. to USD 495 bill. Initially I wrote: “Household debt or consumer lending has barely changed, the problem is that GDP has fallen from USD bill 543 to USD 494 bill over the past four years hence the percentage of debt to GDP is higher”. Later I conceded that total household debt probably has increased although not even BOT seems to understand by how much since most is via unofficial sources. If BOT doesn't know, Trading Economics, Statistica and any other US data agency certainly doesn’t know. The real problem with the headline figure is the fall in GDP and the shifts in the exchange rate.

The data and the graphs are there for anyone to see, individuals can decide what they think is correct or otherwise. But you and me are done here, you don't appear to want to debate, rather you want to impose what you think on others. Bye.

Banks and other legit legal entities in Thailand are involved in Consumer Lending, that doesn't include private money lending, which when added, gives total household debt. There is simply no way that BOT can measure fully the extent of private money lending, at best this is a an estimate. The fact appears to be that even the BOT does not fully understand what the extent is of Consumer Lending because they keep finding new sources of legit loans and adding those in to the headline figures.

The graph on page 4, Figure 2 tells the story I think. YoY Household debt remained flat whilst the Household Debt to GDP climbed. https://www.scbeic.com/en/detail/file/product/7870/g39tauun2f/EIC_NOTE_hh_debt_EN_20211014.pdf

Another aspect of Consumer Debt is that the scope of data collection continues to increase, that doesn't mean that debt is increasing, it just means that more is becoming known about the scope of that debt. Unfortunately, that new awareness alters the headline percentage which causes lots of angst. "The Bank of Thailand (BOT) has improved the coverage of its data on household borrowings or household debt by including new data from: 1) the Student Loan Fund; 2) National Housing Authority; 3) Pico Finance; and, 4) non-savings cooperatives, in order to get a clearer picture of household debt, particularly on borrowings for educational and occupational purposes. Those borrowing for occupational purposes tend to have low and/or irregular income, and their lenders are largely cooperatives. As of 1Q23, household debt outstanding, based on the new dataset, grew roughly by THB766 billion from the THB15.19 trillion that was based on the previous dataset, to THB15.96 trillion, which amounted to 90.6 percent of GDP, down from the 91.4 percent of GDP reported in 4Q22. It is expected that household debt outstanding will continue to decline after peaking at 95.5 percent of GDP in 1Q21". https://www.kasikornresearch.com/en/analysis/k-econ/economy/Pages/Household-Debt-1QY23-CIS3419-B-04-07-2023.aspx

I chose a 4 year period for a reason: https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/thailand/household-debt--of-nominal-gdp#:~:text=Thailand household debt accounted for,86.3 % in the previous quarter. https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=THB&view=5Y

I've already agreed that overall debt has likely increased. The only debt that can be accurately measured is that via the official channels. Unofficial borrowing from unauthorised sources such as loan sharks can't be accurately measured hence trying to calculate the percentages you suggest is not possible. But what can be done is consumer lending via the official channels can be measured against GDP, over the past four years, I very much doubt that bank/finance company lending has increased at all during that period. Do I want to prove it, do I want to have fun? I have no need but if you want to, go for it.

Yes I agree that overall Household Debt has likely increased but I qualified the term and said, Consumer Lending which is mainly bank and finance house lending. Informal lending is something else entirely and I have no figures on what that 19.8% might really be, neither I suspect does anyone else other than via sampling and estimation. Bottom line is that the only measurable statistics are from Consumer Lending via the official lending route, which is what I intended at the outset.

What was the name of that so called "public" hospital? Presumably you mean a government hospital but honestly, I kinda doubt that it was.

Household debt or consumer lending has barely changed, the problem is that GDP has fallen from USD bill 543 to USD 494 bill over the past four years hence the percentage of debt to GDP is higher. https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/gdp

I've already been down that road, the account is NOT a joint account. The account is wholly owned by whichever party transacts on the account. Also, banks in Thailand are not obliged to accept a POA, unless they were a party to the POA agreement. Just walking into a bank here with a POA and showing them a POA that the account holder has signed and had witnessed, doesn't mean anything to them. FYI the bank where we hold these "or" accounts is UOB.

Amen to that. A good friend is a huge beast of a man, an ex rugby player and hard as nails. He went all macho and tried a colonoscopy without being sedated, he described it as the worst pain he had ever experienced.

No, gross earnings.

There are no such instruments at Thai banks, they offer standard rates on variable and fixed accounts and also occasionally some specials that are advertised in branch, that's it. 2.45% is the best you can get currently on a 2 year fix. Anything else is either life insurance or investment fund based, such as 7 year LTF's. https://www.bot.or.th/en/statistics/interest-rate.html

Perhaps a better option is to open the account in both names but instead of being X and Y, make it X or Y and keep the book hidden. That way, when you pass on, she can operate the account without needing it to go through probate or be subject to a will. My wife and I operate several of our accounts this way, fixed deposits and savings interest accounts. When I die, my wife can use the accounts as is without any changes of approvals. The only thing she can't do is close the account, without my permission which if I'm dead, is a moot point.