Mike Lister

179 days + 5 seconds = 180 days....you're tax resident.

The Gift Tax thing is still messy. The gift is supposed to be exclusively for the benefit of the receiver so sending the money to her and then her giving it to you....er, hmmm! But then there's conjugal property resulting from marriage....you see the problem. Perhaps look at the DTA to see if your pension is excluded, that might offer some relief, dunno.

I'm with the CC on that first point in bold/underlined. The issue of whether or not you are Thai tax resident when the funds were earned is equally as important as your tax residency status when the funds were remitted, I think. Not being tax resident when the funds were remitted is not the end of the game and I never believed it was. This remains WIP

Back of a fag packet: Pensions of 80k a month equals 960k per year, less 500k in TEDA leaves you 460k to account for, assuming you are from the UK and that's not a government pension. If you paid Thai tax on that 460k the tax would be 31k (that's 300k at 5% and 160k at 10%) But chances are you paid UK tax on that pension (?), if so, that tax can be offset against any Thai tax that becomes due.

A new para for the Introduction of the document, for comment if desired: 4) This document looks at the tax laws and related rules that exist but does not attempt to understand the degree to which they are always uniformly followed or enforced. Often in Thailand, laws are enacted, utilised, but then become dormant for long periods before being brought back into service again, the TM30 rule is one such example. It is virtually impossible for us to understand the degree to which any particular tax rule is enforced uniformly, nationwide, or when a particular law might next be activated once again. For example, we are aware that penalties exist for not filing a tax return where the income threshold has been exceeded but no tax is due. We think it is unlikely that this rule is enforced and that many people if any are fined but we cannot be certain. Readers must therefore assess their own willingness to accept the risk of not following a particular seemingly dormant or unenforced rule, that might suddenly one day be fully utilised once again, without notice.

A new para for the introduction, for comment, if any: 4) This document looks at the tax laws and related rules that exist but does not attempt to understand the degree to which they are always uniformly followed or enforced. Often in Thailand, laws are enacted, utilised, but then become dormant for long periods before being brought back into service again, the TM30 rule is one such example. It is virtually impossible for us to understand the degree to which any particular tax rule is enforced uniformly, nationwide, or when a particular law might next be activated once again. For example, we are aware that penalties exist for not filing a tax return where the income threshold has been exceeded but no tax is due. We think it is unlikely that this rule is enforced and that many people if any are fined but we cannot be certain. Readers must therefore assess their own willingness to accept the risk of not following a particular seemingly dormant or unenforced rule, that might suddenly one day be fully utilised once again, without notice.

One very unusual and unexpected benefit of filing a tax return is that UOB was willing to accept a copy of mine, as my proof of address, whilst opening a new account, which negated the need to obtain a residency cert. from Immi. Mind you, these were the same people who accepted my Cumbria bus pass as proof of my UK ID!

I have added the following to para 77: There have been several reports from members who have been refused a TIN. In order to obtain a TIN, You will need to bring the following documentation: a) Completed LP 10.1 form, available at the tax office b) Valid passport and visa (วีซ่า) c) Proof of address (e.g., a rental agreement, yellow tabien baan (ทะเบียนบ้าน), or residency certificate from the immigration office) d) Employment contract (สัญญาจ้างงาน) or proof that you have tax liability in Thailand (e.g., proof of financial transactions) If you continue to have problems obtaining a TIN, the Revenue Department Help Line number is 02 272 8000 and they will be able to assist you. https://www.expatica.com/th/civil/administration/tax-id-thailand-2172861/#apply

Yes, a good point. My response to a poster on this issue in a different thread was this: "Here is the Thai Revenue Department Help Line 02 272 8000. If you call them and tell them what you've said here, I'm pretty sure you will get your TIN in no time at all". I will include the Help Line number in the document

This is a draft of the change to the tax filing process. If anyone wants to suggest changes or additions, I will be happy to incorporate them where possible. TAX FORMS AND FILING 76) The Thai Revenue tax filing system is on-line but only available in Thai language at present. The tax forms are however available in English and they can be downloaded from the link below. https://www.rd.go.th/english/63902.html 76.5) Tax returns must be filed between 1 January and 31 March each year, if you file later than that, penalties will apply. Tax filing is electronic or paper based, the address where paper based returns must be sent can be found in the link below. 77) Completing a tax return is a simple affair for most people, if you have difficulty, the Revenue Department staff are extremely helpful. If you want to file electronically, you should ask the TRD office to set up your on-line account and show you how to use the system. If you are not fluent in Thai it may help to take somebody with you who is. If you want to try doing this yourself at home, the TRD e-filing site is where you can apply for an e-filing account, submit forms and also practise using the system. https://efiling.rd.go.th/rd-cms/ 77.5) Whichever method you use to file, you must obtain a TIN first. After you obtain your TIN you must ask the TRD office to set up your on-line account and show you how to use the system. If you are not fluent in Thai it may help to take somebody with you who is. There have been several reports from members who have been refused a TIN. In order to obtain a TIN, You will need to bring the following documentation: a) Completed LP 10.1 form, available at the tax office b) Valid passport and visa (วีซ่า) c) Proof of address (e.g., a rental agreement, yellow tabien baan (ทะเบียนบ้าน), or residency certificate from the immigration office) d) Employment contract (สัญญาจ้างงาน) or proof that you have tax liability in Thailand (e.g., proof of financial transactions) If you continue to have problems obtaining a TIN, the Revenue Department Help Line number is 02 272 8000 and they will be able to assist you. https://www.expatica.com/th/civil/administration/tax-id-thailand-2172861/#apply

Yes, OK, agreed. A minor but not pedantic point on this is that not all UK fixed assets are taxed at source, property rental income can be received gross of tax under the Overseas Landlord Scheme, mine is. All of which confirms yet again, how difficult it is to make a single statement about tax rules anywhere and that there are always exceptions.

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I will update the document with the following: 80) As stated earlier, there is also a fine that is capable of being levied, for not filing a return, even when no tax is due, as long as the assessable income level is exceeded. Perhaps more importantly, TRD is empowered to audit the preceding 10 years tax returns in the event a tax resident fails to file a return after exceeding the threshold. Where returns have been made, TRD is only empowered to audit the preceding two years. It should be understood that there is no evidence presently that the TRD does undertake back audits on people who don’t file Neither are we aware that the fine is levied for not filing, when no tax is due. But it should also be noted that those facilities do exist and were only created in the last decade.

A few people have asked that I update the para on tax filing because many members have never even been into a TRD office and want to understand the end to end process. There's not much else that I can think of to include thus below is how it appears at present. If anyone has suggestions? 77) Tax returns must be filed between 1 January and 31 March each year, if you file later than that, penalties will apply. Tax filing is electronic or paper based. the address where paper based returns must be sent can be found in the link below. Whichever method you use to file, you must obtain a TIN first. Completing a tax return is a simple affair for most people, if you have difficulty, the Revenue Department staff are extremely helpful. If you want to file electronically, you should ask the TRD office to set up your on-line account and show you how to use the system. If you are not fluent in Thai it may help to take somebody with you who is. If you want to try doing this yourself at home, the TRD e-filing site is where you can apply for an e-filing account, submit forms and also practise using the system. https://efiling.rd.go.th/rd-cms/

The issue here is not what the TRD might or might not do. The issue is, those people who do not file a return are capable of having their previous 10 tax years audited whereas those who have filed are only exposed to audits covering the previous 2 tax years. But yes, let's move forward to the next thing.

I don't disagree, It's just that it's relatively easy to understand what the rules or laws say but it can be next to impossible to understand, with any degree of certainty, if they are actively enforced, uniformly across the board.

The issue with all of these things is to determine if they are true and exist or not, not whether they are actively enforced or the likelihood of them being enforced, or the logical difficulties of enforcing them. If we can do that, members can then decide whether they wish to accept the risk of each one, or not. I don't think for one moment that our role is to say yes, rule XY or Z exists but we don't know of anyone who has ever been impacted by it hence everyone can safely ignore it!

Another member posted the quote below, if you have proof what is said is incorrect, please post the same. "The following from PWC Thailand tax booklet for personal tax. "Penalties and surcharge A taxpayer who is assessed additional tax by an assessment officer on the grounds that an inaccurate return was filed, or who failed to file a return, is subject to a penalty. The rate of penalty is 100% for an inaccurate return and 200% for failure to file a return. Penalties may be reduced by 50% if the taxpayer submits a request in writing and the assessment officer is of the opinion that the taxpayer did not intend to evade tax and cooperated with the officer during the tax audit. Any person who fails to pay or remit tax within the specified time is liable to pay a surcharge of 1.5% per month, or fraction thereof, of the amount of tax to be paid or remitted subject to a maximum equal to the amount of tax to be paid or remitted. Tax investigation and assessment The Revenue Department is empowered to demand documents and records for inspection for a period of two years. The period will be extended to five years if it is found, or there is a reason to believe, that there was tax evasion, or where a tax audit is conducted for the purpose of paying a tax refund. Nevertheless, under the Civil and Commercial Code, the Revenue Department can assess tax for up to ten years." I think it is this section from the Civil and Commercial Code Section 448. Statute of Limitations The claim for damages arising from wrongful act is barred by prescription after one year from the day when the wrongful act and the person bound to make compensation became known to the injured person, or ten years from the day when the wrongful act was committed. However if the damages are claimed on account of an act punishable under the criminal law for which a longer prescription is provided such longer prescription shall apply. Prescription Section 193/31. Taxes 10 Years The period of prescription for claims of the Government for taxes and rates is ten years. As to other claims of the Government relating to obligations, the provisions of this title shall apply".

Here is the Thai Revenue Department Help Line 02 272 8000. If you call them and tell them what you've said here, I'm pretty sure you will get your TIN in no time at all.

The link below explains the difference between the two forms in detail. https://www.rsm.global/thailand/insights/rsm-focus/filing-pnd90-and-pnd91

I am working on expanding para 77 and will post a draft in the next couple of days. There will almost certainly be some variations between offices and staff at TRD around the country, all I can suggest is that everyone try it to see what success they have. Here in Chiang Mai the TRD staff have always been very helpful. Once you have your TIN, I suggest you go to your local TRD office and ask them to set up an account and give you the log on credentials, that done you might ask them to provide some instructions the first time around and show you how to enter information. That is what I did and again, they were extremely helpful. Another point to add is that when I fits obtained my TIN years ago, they were only issued at the Regional Offices, not the District offices, I don't know what the situation is today.

Don't forget that the gift must be for the use of the person it is gifted to, otherwise it is not a gift.

It looks as though the landscape is changing from, "no need to file because there's no penalty", to, there is a fine for not filing plus not doing so exposes you to back audits for the past decade.

Sometimes the TRD does send out blank forms to people who filed in the previous year but not always. I file some years and not others, based on my circumstances but they stopped sending me forms as soon as I got an online ID.

You will need to point out just where that incorrect information is please, the issue of residency was made clear in the second post.