Rob Browder

The best agent-fee / minimal-hassle alternative is to park 800K in the bank, and buy a condo. Then, you always have all the documents they want. 2nd best is the 800K + a very cooperative landlord. If not willing/able to do that, just pay an agent 13K-15K Baht, and continue with 1-year extensions. That is what all this rigamarole is designed to force - requiring long-term leases, not accepting income-affidavits, increasing deposit seasoning-times, etc - all "requirements" which magically disappear, if you do what immigration wants, and use their agent-partners.

The classes option doesn't require freelancing - is in the "soft power" category. Anyone can pay for for such a class, show 500K in the bank, and get the DTV. If over 50, retirement-based is less hassle, though.

Currently folks cannot open accounts on on TR / METV / Exempt / DTV entries. But, unless this has changed, those under-50 and w/o Thai family (Non-O) or Thai job (Non-B) could open a bank-account on an ED Visa, which is a "Non" type. Anyone please correct if "Non-ED" visa/extensions are no longer "bank-able." Also, one could wire-transfer the money to buy a condo, without having a Thai account. A real-estate agent should facilitate this - but use a reputable one.

Unlike an ED visa, which requires going to immigration for extensions, with the DTV there is no ongoing "checking" (or payoff to avoid this) that you keep doing whatever class. It seems to me the MFA / Tourist-Authority side of things created the DTV visa to create a way for those who can show 500K to spend money in Thailand (vs other countries in the region), without immigration blocking them via agent-extortion rackets.

Yes - it froze-solid years ago. And, with every "crackdown," they just pile more blocks of corruption-ice on-top. See ...

It's commonplace to check for criminal issues, and to question those coming from low-wage nations to high-wage nations, as they are more likely to be coming to work illegally. Thus, they would be protecting the well-being of their countrymen - not creating barriers to harm their financial prospects, as is the case with Thai immigration - and for corrupt reasons. The "abuse" is by immigration, who are breaking the law laid-down in the Immigration Act by denying entry for a reason not listed ("coming too long / often"). Adding insult to injury, they are doing this to force people who are supporting Thai businesses / jobs to pay them off with "safe entry" payoffs via their agent partners. It's all just a scam to line their pockets. There is no rational reason to stop people from higher-wage nations spending their money in Thailand - instead of Cambodia, Vietnam, etc - which is the only outcome of this policy. ... because they don't get a "cut" of that spending - "other" Thais get it. Immigration could not care less about Thailand or Thais - is what is so infuriating about dealing with them. If spent their energy busy busting foreign scab-workers who undercut Thais for jobs, I'd be their biggest fan.

The "problem" is, Immigration are trying to pressure you to use agents to facilitate your entry - so-called "safe entry" if by air - so they get a brown-envelope payoff. That's all they care about - not the law, not "right or wrong," or what you do here. Those who are not a "rarely visit" type - once a year or less - are randomly targeted. You seem to be on their extortion-list (maybe a note in your file), even though your visits are not back-to-back - and you didn't even extend your 60-day entries.

Yes, the reason the aren't OK with double the next month - when it's clear you have the money - is that their system was created specifically to "gotcha" folks, to maximize how many they can drive to agents, so they can get their payoff. On the upside, they'll reward you with 1st class / no hassles ever treatment, for using their preferred agent system.

Fooled? By folks repeat-spending money into Thailand? They just want a "safe entry" cut of that money from a larger portion of the visitors, now. This pattern has repeated for decades.

There seems to be a dispute over splitting the money.

It's explicitly illegal to deny entry for "coming too much/often" per the Immigration Act. What is "legal" is whatever some <self-censored> official says is legal. They do whatever they want, within the limits of what the deep-pockets permit them to get away with. Immigration running scams is the problem - but don't hold your breath for them to stop turning screws, to increase their brown-envelope money-streams - which is what every "crackdown" has accomplished. Exactly - because there is no welfare for foreigners here, so you have proved you have the funds to support yourself, and manage your financial affairs in Thailand. It's the newbie who is more likely to blow all their money, and wind up destitute.

Yes - of course. I also worked here legally in the past, for a good wage. For specialty professions, they pay more than the going Thai-wage to hire a foreigner. In the case of business-owners, they create Thai-jobs in exchange for the permission to work. It's denying entry to folks spending non-Thai-sourced money, which is beyond stupid - just pure greed, without the slightest care of the consequences to their fellow Thais. I've heard that excuse in my country - and worked one of those jobs right up until the day I was replaced with a foreign worker for less than 1/2 of what we made (construction trades). What this really means is, "We don't want to pay decent wages to Thais for the job, so we paid-off govt officials to let us hire foreigners, who will work for much less." In most businesses, the cost of goods/services at the retail-price level is not significantly affected by paying decent wages, even if 100% passed to the customer - but, skim that pay-difference off of 1000+ workers, and it makes a nice bonus for traitors.

Where "abusing" is "spending too much money in Thailand" (without giving immigration a cut of it - see "safe entry" and "border run services"). And, where the stated-reason for the denial is illegal under the Thai Immigration Act, so is the actual "abuse" occurring. Taking nations with lower-than-Thailand min-wage off the "visa exempt" list would be the sane thing to do. Then, no worries about a significant number coming to "work illegally" / "without funds to support." There is the DTV now - wish they had it when I was under 50.

It's ridiculous to argue that denying-entry to those coming to spend money in Thai businesses does not cut revenue to those businesses, and thus de-employ Thais. It absolutely does hurt Thai people - and for no upside at all (except brown-envelopes to IOs). Go back to your home country and see you get more for an hour in the lowest-paid job, than a min-wage Thai earns in a day. Westerners aren't coming here on tourist-entries, to compete for illegal-jobs with Cambodians and Burmese. That said, Thailand is very nice for a low-wage / low-cost country, which is why so many come here to spend their money - because the money "goes further" than back home.

Ah, so back to what they were doing in Jomtien a few years back - though for an extra 2K fee (no receipt), you got the full 30-days. I think that office-specific scam was shut down after a month or so. Any news if having an agent file for the extension gets the full 30-days, yet - or are they still haggling over the brown-envelope fee?

Some who did this reported being booted without a refusal stamp. Others reported getting the refusal-stamp, anyway. If I were in that position, I would sign nothing that did not say they were denying me for the illegal-reason they made up and told me - "spending too much time in Thailand" - but I doubt they will ever write down "We are violating the Immigration Act, and thus breaking our oath as officers, to get payoffs to follow the law."

Correct, if you have a double-tax treaty with Thailand, and I doubt Thailand is going to renounce those any time soon. In many of those treaties, payouts like US-Social-Security are specified as exempt. There has been lots of talk about "revising" the last rule-changes, as those bit them in the backside, financially. We can only wait and see.

That's insane - completely wrecks the investment / ROI reason to invest in Thai condos. Outlawing BnB, by enforcing the Hotel-Act was bad enough for that business (goodbye "condo-tel" model) - but the hotel-association money was on the other side of that one. I doubt this rule will stand, due to deep-pockets who would oppose it. The abuses / illegal behavior Thai immigration gets away with are generally things which hurt poor / working-class Thais.

A "proper" use of a TR entry - with or without a visa - is not working a Thai job, and spending money which originates outside of Thailand. This is why that entry-option exists - because it is good for Thailand and Thai people. The criteria for "letting you in" is legally denied ONLY for specific reasons given in the Immigration Act. "Coming to often / staying too long" are not listed. Neither is, "Being married to a Thai." Denying for any reason not in the Immigration Act is illegal, and that is why the IOs put a lie-stamp about "didn't have money" in the passports of those they deny, to cover for their crime. Their agenda is clearly selling "safe entry." Folks can stop pretending their is anything "proper" about how Immigration operates - it's a joke, and everyone sees through it. Eliminating Thai people's service jobs, by cutting off the funds which pay them, and sending pallets of visitor-money to Cambodia instead, is not "proper."

"Dive instructors" - haven't heard that one in awhile. Easy to catch that handful - go to the docks. It is true that most schools (and some other employers) will demand you work illegally for 90-days, before they get your work-permit. There are many threads on this in the teaching forums. It is also easy to fix that problem: Arrest and prosecute their employers, rather than play a guessing-game at the border, which really does cost thousands of Thais their jobs. Note that "working illegally" is rarely used as the passport-stamped rejection-reason immigration uses to deny entry to Westerners, after telling their victims they are being denied for "coming too much / often" (which is an illegal reason). They stamp-pretend you "don't have money," instead - which is impossible, since there is no welfare for foreigners here.

Some reports indicate a few agents can and do - report here from this past july - 48K baht quoted. https://aseannow.com/topic/1365961-opening-bank-account-rules-catch-22-1-year-extension/page/3/#findComment-19966946 Also, from Jan 2024 - citing rising costs for the service: https://aseannow.com/topic/1315981-marriage-extension-agent-no-home-visits-sav-me-based-on-child/ (the cost and hassle being why he was asking about a Laos visa)

The rules state "2 months before application" - nothing about having to keep the 400K in the account after this. This was first done at some remote-offices, then CW started doing it, then they stopped. ~120 days calculation is from the required 2-months before applying seasoning + applying 1-mo early (in case of "new requirements"), then, they don't start the 30-day "under consideration" clock until the existing stamp runs out (some offices). Also, sometimes the under-consideration may be extended beyond 30-days, because they aren't done "considering."

Reports from CW Bangkok indicate they ask for 2 years bank-statements, instead of one-year, to verify you didn't use an agent for the last visa which they did not issue. Nonthaburi is not a friendly office, so they might push further - "Where did you stay in Chonburi (Pattaya)?" proof of such requested, or similar. It's unpredictable. Showing you had the money in the bank the whole time - since the last extension they issued - is likely to work, but no guarantee is possible.

Note, the Immigration Act lists specific reasons to deny-entry, and "comes too much / too often" is not one of those reasons, so their denials are illegal - hence, they use a different, lying-stamped rejected-entry reason in the victim's passport. Expecting order/consistency from such operators is futile. They have changed the rules on non-imm vissas when it suited them, before - sometimes legally / published, and other-times making things up, which varies by immigration office. The effect on Thai people / businesses is not considered - much less foreigners. Therefore, always have a "Plan B." That said, there is no news on non-imm visa-types, at the current time. That leaves the usual "This year they wanted something else," randomness, though.

The difference is, restaurants don't have a mafia "door man" who demands a payoff (via agent) if you "come too often." Where the min wage pays more per-hour than the wage in Thailand per-day? There is no incentive for us to come to Thailand to work illegally. And, Westerners are not working in border-country "scam centers." All this policy does is hurt Thai businesses - sending that business/money to other countries - all so immigration can collect tribute on "come too much/often" visitors. Every day we stay and spend pays multiple Thai salaries = "win win" for everyone involved.