Scottish Thailander

This was left unanswered when the previous thread was closed and I though it was important enough to re-raise the topic.

Please keep it general and do not highlight/name specific schools (they and we already know who they are, or can easily find out) so that this discussion can stay open.

. . . . My only complaint is the way language school students subvert the visa process by not attending which in my view will lead to a crackdown in which genuine students will be unable to get visas.

Does anyone else fee that this is an issue? It certainly makes me a little uncomfortable that it may result in genuine student issues later.

Should language schools abuse the system to make themselves money (in some cases fraudulently claiming students are attending when they are not to facilitate the issuance of the visa and therefore the profit)?

Or do you believe it is acceptable to "turn a blind eye" to this as it may, at least in the short term, reduce costs and increase choice and availabilty of courses?

Are you a genuine attending student who fears that this is putting their future studies at risk?

ST

Ok.

As what I feel was originally a very useful and informative thread has been forced to close at a great loss to everyone, I feel we need a "safe, relaxed, fully independent and "school and sponsor free" thread in which to exchange our honest personal views on the pros and cons of each school, method, and/or tools available to help us poor mortals get the Thai language in all its glory into our heads, and our lives.

To try to ensure that this safe student haven is protected. . .

I would kindly request schools, and school directors, representatives, or anyone in any was associated with a school (with the exception of actually being a bona-fide, fully independent, otherwise non-associated student obviously) to refrain from posting on this particular thread. If for some reason you just can not refrain from commenting then please do so on your own seperate thread.

Many thanks in advance for your compliance.

To ensure a balance, and this threads long and useful life, I would also ask posters to refrain from "attacking" any particular schools or persons. Please highlight any 'cons' in a polite and non-aggressive manner. We all want to know the 'cons' of schools, methods, tools, etc. but please add these comments constructively so that we can all learn from them without unduly upsetting anyone. Honest feedback without anger, malice, or undue prejudice is requested.

To kick off the thread I am going to 'steal' a post from tod-daniels from the now deceased "Best Thai Language School" thread as it was the most recent and most thorough appraisal of a students experience of attending such a large variety of Thai language Schools.

(Thanks tod - Appologies, I know it is bordering on breaking the rules but with the best intentions I have #'d a couple of words to try to start this thread off without controversy. The #'d comment can be found on the original post if anyone, for whatever reason, finds it necessary to seek it out.)

Once you have read/re-read it, please add your own honest and useful feedback on "your personal experiences" of schools, methods, and useful tools (books, websites, etc.).

Lets make learning easier and more fun again!

(Or at least be able to talk freely about our problems and get advice on how to resolve them!)

ST

Okay now that it seems this pinned topic is at least semi back on track about language schools here's a list I've compiled of various schools I've toured and/or taken their free lessons;

I admit this is a longish post; but I believe carries quite a lot of information

DISCLAIMER: The following is totally MY opinion of thai language schools; their material, their teachers and their perceived value (what I call; "bang for the baht") as far as what you get for the money you pay. My experience will, in all likelihood, be different from yours, and my opinions MAY indeed run contrary to yours too.

PLEASE; By all means feel free to post about your experiences at any of the listed schools or ones I've missed. The more people who post their experiences and observations the better informed potential students of the thai language can be in making a decision in attending a school of their choice.

Also realize different people have different goals in learning the language, some use it as a means to an end via the education visa route and take the language as a freebie, some want to speak, some read, some write and/or a combination of all of the above. What works for me, might be a <deleted> method for you, and vice versa.

I urge ANYONE interested in learning thai to attend and sit the free lessons at as many schools as they have time for BEFORE paying the tuition. It is only your time and travel invested and well worth trying on several different methods, before deciding on the one which works for you.

Unity Thai - http://www.utl-school.com

#########

One of the oldest and most well-known thai language schools and TONZ of people have attended it.

Material - quite dated, yet still cohesive

Teachers - honestly seem dedicated to teaching people to speak and learn the thai language

Value - their 'intensive' courses (21-24 days every day for 3 or 4 hours) are good value and I know many people who've taken several levels and came away speaking quite clear thai.

My Thai Language - http://www.mythailanguage.com

Another recent (a year or so) addition to the thai language market.

Material - well designed, thai on one side of the page, phonemic transcription and english on the other so if you can read, you need not be distracted by the english or transcription

Teachers - firmly dedicated to actually imparting the thai language to foreigners

Value – good

Pro-Language (Bangkok) - http://www.prolanguage.co.th

I mention the Bangkok branch as it seems this company might be a franchise and various posters have commented on the lack of cohesive learning at other branches in the country.

Material - well thought out, not as dated as Unity, lessons build upon earlier ones.

Teachers - seems to be a crap shoot, and if you start a class with one you don't like, don't be afraid to ask for a new teacher. Some only want to spout thai rhetoric instead of actually teach (especially so in the thai conversation class)

Value - not as cheap as some it is still good value

TLS - http://www.tls-bangkok.com

A good language school which caters predominantly to other Asian nationalities learning thai, although they are expanding their market to attract more native English speakers and now offer group classes as well.

Material - Good material, again well thought out, well presented, etc

Teachers - because they cater to asians, you will have to get into a class that is NOT taught in Japanese, Korean, or Chinese. They are now employing teachers who have experience teaching thai to english speakers and have come a long way in this regard

Value – good

Paradigm Language Institute - http://www.paradigm-language.com/

Little used or known school, but with that being said, they offer a wide variety of courses.

Material - some of the least dated material I have seen, well thought out, nicely presented.

Teachers - Good, informative, and dedicated

Value – good

Language Express - http://www.languageexpress.co.th

A relatively newcomer in the thai language niche. Brand spanking new school in a very convenient location

Material - Last time I was there they were using Benjawan Poomsan Becker's books: Beginning, Intermediate & Advanced as their course material. This is not the detriment one might think. Believe me (despite what ANYONE may claim; there are NO new innovations in learning this language) While I am about as far from a fan of Benjawan as anyone can be; she has probably done more single-handedly than any other thai national to encourage foreigners to learn this language.

Teachers - good, well spoken, and dedicated

Value – good

Piammitr Language School - http://www.piammitrschool.com/

Little known school, trying to carve a slice of the thai language pie for themselves. They are in the process of redesigning their text books

Material - good, somewhat dated but still not the worst by a long shot

Teachers - again a crap shoot, some are good some are less so. If you're in a class with a bad one ask for another.

Value – good

SMIT - http://smitlanguage.ac.th/main/

Again not so well known, but still a contender, and I've met many people who have attended there in the past.

Materials - well thought out, somewhat dated but still good,

Teachers - friendly professional, and dedicated (for the most part)

Value – good

AUA - http://www.auathai.com

One of, if not the oldest thai language school catering to foreigners in Bangkok.

Material - none. They now use the ALG (Automatic Language Growth) Method to teach spoken thai. You observe two teachers (actors) who talk about a wide variety of topic with various props. There is NO class interaction, no question/answer period, and it is observation ONLY. Their claim is; after attending 600 hours you will suddenly being speaking in tongues, I mean in thai.

Teachers - interesting, amusing, and entertaining, however as there is no interaction other thai observation I cannot comment further. They do seem dedicated to their methodology.

Value - this is one of the cheapest thai language schools a person will ever attend, and buying time in blocks gets you a further discount.

I believe AUA is a valuable school to attend ONLY if you have a grasp of at least basic spoken thai. At that level of thai comprehension and attending even a few hours a week will certainly increase your listening skills as it's only in thai with no engrish spoken in class.

Baan Aksorn - http://www.baanaksorn.com/index.php

A good school that is somewhat expensive, however they TEACH you speaking, reading writing, and are a no nonsense school. If you are employed by someone who will foot the bill, go there..

Material - extremely well put together

Teachers - as I said, they are no nonsense, and you're not going to just coast by in this schools program

Value - expensive but for the quality of education you receive and you have an unlimited education budget, go there

Jentana & Associates - http://www.thai-lessons.com

Another lesser known but high quality school. The owner Jentana caters more to corporate people who need intensive thai in a limited time frame. Also develops a personal program catered to the individual based on what that person wants, be it, speaking, reading, writing.

Material - very diverse, as many courses are individually tailored to a customers needs.

Teachers - very well trained and professional

Value - another expensive school but again if you've got someone footing the bill, a good choice.

Andrew Biggs Academy - (no website info about the thai classes) but here's his site link anyway http://www.andrewbiggs.com

The name says it all. He is probably the most recognizable foreigner here in this country, and he's certainly marketed his trademark "shaved head and big ears" into one serious money making machine in the english language market.

Material - very new, developed if I am not mistaken by a professor from a well known college, well thought out, and well presented. (this is another set of text books I want but don't have)

Teachers - when I attended the evaluation there was only one (last year some time when the thai language aspect of his school was just getting off the ground), but she was very good and professional.

Value - mid range, but for the money very good

Berlitz - an international language company that teaches far more languages than I care to list

Material - GREAT textbook, (and as an aside IF anyone has the Berlitz book and will let me copy it, PM me)

Teachers - good, follows the book, and dedicated

Value - expensive as all get out, but a good corporate choice

Lest anyone thinks I am discriminatory in my posting penchants; here's a school (I freely admit to attending for a year) and which needs no introduction on this forum;

Walen School of Thai - http://www.thaiwalen.com

Here are some other websites for the various schools I perused but have muddy memories of. After touring 25+ schools, some are less memorable than others but in no way does that mean they are not quality schools (only that I am getting old and have a failing memory)

Thai Language Solutions - http://www.thaisolutions1502.com

TLA School - http://www.tlaschool.com

Thai Language Hut - http://www.thailanguagehut.com

Sumaa Language & Cultural Institute - http://www.sumaa.net

Thailish Language School - http://www.thailanguageschool.com

I am sure there are more as there is NO shortage of thai language schools in Bangkok. I wonder why, with the plethora of language schools here, foreigners don't speak better thai or sometimes any thai at all, especially long-stayers. Then again I wonder the same about the plethora of "engrish" teachers I've met and why the thais don't speak better engrish too.

As an aside; It is my hobby to collect thai language text books from the various and sundry schools here. Most schools will not sell their textbooks outright unless you attend (savvy marketing), and then you can only buy the book for the level you attend. If anyone has any text books I can copy, PM me and we'll take it from there.

Hope this post will help get the thread back on track to its actual title, (and away from the pissing match it seemed to have deteriorated into).

(edited for spelling mistakes, but probably still didn't get 'em all)

Oops, sorry, looking back I can see that I could bee seen as starting this "measuring/testing competency" discussion deviation, so I would definately . . . .

. . . suggest this "measuring/testing competency" discussion, . . . would be better suited to its own thread, not this 'best language school' one.

. . . if anyone wants to discuss it further.

ST

. . . . In fact this is my point of disagreement....the Prathom 6 is a test of Academic learning not of competency.

Maybe a look at Competancy based Training is in order. . . .

Harry,

I may not have phrased that sentence well. What I was trying to say agrees mostly with you. The P6 is not a competency based exam. I also agree with SoftWater in that, more often than not, students are coached in how to pass the exam, not encouraged to study the 'content' of the coursework/language behind it. I futher agree with you that a look at Competency Based Training should be looked at.

However, the only current formal comparison of 'ability' (whatever that may mean) that I am aware of for Thai learners is the P6 exam. and that is why I mentioned it.

The only other way is to sit students from each school down in some form of practical test with each other to see who can perform better in daily life as that is "practical". However, that in itself as you no doubt know is fraught with problems.

The following are examples only: no stereotyping, sexual, racial, social, or otherwise, or any other offence intended:-

Is a practical test designed for the daily life of a horny young male university student going to be comparable with that of a middle age staid married housewife? How different would the daily life of a married (to a poor Thai) housewife be compared to the daily life of a married (to a well paid expat) housewife be? Sure, there would be some overlap, but a huge difference in what they each deem to be 'essential' Thai vocabulary. For example, some of my friends are amazed at the legal vocabulary I have as I needed it early on in my learning for 'practical' purposes. (No not because I was defending something criminal I had done, but a child (not mine) custody case I was involved with). I however lack what they deem to be everyday 'practical' language that they have acquired to suit their exposure and purposes.

I suggest this "measuring/testing competency" discussion, although has the potential for some very interesting discussion (at least for a few of us), would be better suited to its own thread, not this 'best language school' one.

ST

. . . . Your turn ST.

Walen School

Mac,

I am satisfied with your 'transparent' answer that your criteria for selecting teachers means that you look for people with a good voice, good pronunciation, a pleasant personality, who are energetic, are "interested in" mastering the method and as all you want them to do comply with your method is to be able to read out the textbook parrot-fashion and therefore they do not have to possess any (other) teaching skills.

So as not to be unfair to the teachers you currently have, I will say that despite your selection criteria, many posts on here confirm that you have been "unlucky" enough to have recruited some 'teachers' who exceed your basic criteria and try to help students with their problems. Why "unlucky" for you? Because the "natural" behaviour to assist struggling students, (and to relieve the boredom that they endure consistantly repeating the same text from the 3 books hour after hour, day after day, month after month) which they "helpfully" exhibit means they do not actually teach lessons that comply with your method of pure and speedy compliant repetition of the text in the book. Do you sit in on lessons to prevent this?; yes, to give you credit, I believe you occasionally do; but the fact remains that you are not in the majority of unobserved classes and your "attending" students (I won't mention the non-attending ones so as not to disadvantage the purely humanitarian service you provide to those who are in need of a visa but have no interest or time to attend classes) therefore do not get "Walen method" classes. Why do students therefore not complain? I am not "all" your students so I can only provide my assessment that the majority appreciate the teachers personal attention to their problems/questions and that they also appreciate the relief from the "natural" bordom of the repetition. You will no doubt argue that the lessons are not boring as the speed of the class prevents this. In practice, the majority of classes are not fast enough to do this for many students, and if they were/when they are then many other students would be so lost and confused that they would silently suffer (believing that they themselves are at fault), complain, or leave. A bit Catch 22.

I do not envy your problem "ensuring" that "the method" is taught at your school and (despite what you may believe) I would genuinely really like to see real evidence of whether your "Walen" system works or not, if and when you actually start "consistantly" teaching using "only" the method. (I stressed the 'Walen' method specifically because as Thai and English are not even in the same family of languages then, even if undisputed proof that the Callen method worked was shown, it (the Callan proof) would not necessarily apply to the Walen method).

Ok, I have said a lot more than I intended to in this reply. As I said in the related previous post, "I am not going to get into a debate with you about this." I have highlighted what I believe to be issues for you to address if you insist on your current belief that academically trained and Educationally qualified Teachers are not required and that method trained 'teachers' are sufficient, and that the Walen method is the correct way to teach. What I expect to see, and what I do not personally need, is your argumentative response on here, though you are (of course) welcome to provide one. What I would like and prefer to see is your addressing these issues in your classes and then see existing and future students come on here and confirm that "at no time" does the teaching in a class violate the method by wandering into discussions, and, as I do not expect you or anyone else to scientifically measure the efficiency of your method in the near future, at least see some students praise the correctly deployed method as at least equivalent, or even as you claim, "4 times quicker" than other methods.

How could this be measured? One poster, Harry, has just said that Softwater and I are concentrating on a difference between academic and Practical learning. The only balanced test between academic and practical learning that is easily available (I know, it is very far from ideal) which covers basic knowledge and comprehension, with elements of reading, writing, listening, and speaking (which are all 'practical' measures as well as academic), and can be used to quantify and compare the results of each schools' students' abilities and measuring progress is the "Prathom 6 exam". I know you [Mac] avoid this when mentioned by other posters by continually arguing that formal certification not what "all" students want to achieve and I fully and wholeheartedly agree. However, of course, some students do and therefore it would be good to see your first, and hopefully many more students pass this that have "only" been taught "from scratch" by your method. At the risk of being repetative, and stealing another posters argument/comment (sorry, I forget who it was), hopefully, in the next P6 exam will see at least 'one' purely Walen taught student out of the hundreds (or was it thousands) of the students you are 'teaching' sit and pass the exam. This would be more convincing than your personal (understandably biased) 'experience' in confirming to some degree that your system has merits. I look forward to your good news of, as the biggest and most successful school (your claim), posting the highest number of P6 graduates.

Ok, as you put it, you have already 'had your turn' and now I have I have 'had my turn' in response. You, I assume (I hate assuming) will therefore help to stop this topic wandering off point again by not taing another turn. To ensure I am more than fair, as I feel that you will feel agrieved that you did not get the last word on here, I will give you the opportunity to have the last word. I have stated my preference for how you should respond. If you are polite enough to comply with my preference then we need not see any more posts on here other than those from your students supplying 'independent' confirmation of "100% method classes", and, one from you, supplying a list of 100% Walen trained P6 graduates, letting this topic, once again, remain fully on topic.

Hopefully yours,

ST

. . . .

If the AAA school S/T is referring to is the one on Chidlom Road on the 6th floor of the Vanessa Building behind Central Department store which is at this website;

http://www.aaathai.com/ . . . .

Yes, that is the one.

. . . . I believe it is no better or worse than any other school using the "Union" based method of teaching thai. The Union based method is one of the oldest methods out there and is used by MANY schools. Often the text books are virtual copies of the original Union books, which are about 20 years old at least and quite out of date in terms of terminology. (Please ask the porter when the next train arrives at the station; is a sentence I have seen in many union based textbooks). . . .

My understanding is that they do all use the same (or at least very similar) method, but that AAA has updated their textbooks more recently. Like SoftWater, I have no experience of the other schools (yet), but I do not recognise the "Please ask the porter" sentence, and again like SoftWater, I did not find AAA's textbook so dated that it was a problem.

AAA also has the "60 hours/6500baht" type of programs . . . . miss a day, lose the hours, wash out, and lose it all. It is intensive . . . . In perusing their website the private lessons seem very competitively priced at only 400 baht per hour, and depending on their curriculum and your ability, they could be good value indeed.

Tod, I agree the program is not suitable for "casual" learning and that is why I was specific in my reply to Parvis:

". . . I would recommend to you [Parvis] in your [Parvis'] circumstances. . . ."

As you will have seen, I have recommended/mentioned other schools in other threads, and/or (being too lazy to look back through this post at the moment) maybe even in this thread.

Tod, it was good to meet you in person today. Hope we get a chance to chat more in the future.

ST

Scottish Thailander, it is not correct that just 'some' of the Walen teachers are good, all of them are good as we fire those who are not.

Walen

Mac,

I am not going to get into a debate with you about this. If you have had to fire teachers then at some time you have had bad teachers employed and teaching. Therefore, my comment that "some" of the teachers are good still stands correct. The same is true of every school (almost without exception). At any one point in time there will be both good and not-so-good teachers.

I believe that the majority of teachers at Walen are, as tod-daniels said, "dedicated and sincere in their desire to teach thai to foreigners". However, I know that you have had at least one teacher who consistantly failed to correctly identify the tones of words when asked to do so. On odd occasions this is to expected, and accepted, as we all make mistakes. However, doing so consistantly when being paid to teach Thai is not acceptable to students serious about learning the Thai language. As far as I know, the guilty teacher has not yet been fired.

Having said that, I do not believe that the teacher should necessarily be fired, as you seem (in the quote above) to suggest is your solution to a problem such as this. I would hope that firing people is not your first and only solution. I would hope that additional teacher 'training' would be one of your first attempts to resolve problems with teaching quality. In fact, as not all your teachers are "certified B.Ed in teaching Thai Language" teachers (please correct me if all your teachers are at least "B.Ed in teaching Thai Language" certified) I would expect you to be providing ongoing teacher training. You may/may not be doing so, and I admit I do not know which applies. It would be nice to think that you do provide training, and that that training is not just "in-house" training, but recognised training that would lead to them being able to obtain (or advance thier) "formal" teacher certification in teaching Thai language to second language learners.

ST

. . . . I will continue my Thai language studies – shortly - as soon as I find an acceptable (to me) Thai language school. For me – this is not a question of price – but a question of quality, location and time available.

Should you have suggestions of Schools, Methods and Criticism etc. etc. etc. – Please do not hesitate and please advice.

PCP

Parvis,

Thank you for that.

It mirrors many other posts from people who believe that 'some' of the Walen teachers are good, helpful, well intentioned teachers, who are sandwiched between 1) a debatably efficient method with less than ideal supporting books and implementation, and 2) Walen's rules that (are supposed to) prevent them from specifically teaching tones, explaining structure, etc. when needed independently of the book as it is contrary to the Walen method.

You asked for suggestions, and I am sure you will get some schools "suggesting" themselves but I will add my tuppenceworth for you to consider:-

As you are "already able to speak – read – write "some" Thai" I would suggest you check out AAA Thai Language School (Pasawes) as they are regularly recommended, and my experience there would support those others. They also have "tests to 'place' [you] based on [your] previous "self taught" knowledge, which you stated were unavailable at Walen. There are others, which you will find on here, but this is the only one I have attended so far that I would recommend to you in your circumstances (and I have attended/am attending others).

ST.

ST, I think he said in one post that he was taking private lessons. It may have been moderated, though.

SW,

Thanks.

ST.

Are they definately saying "ai"? Could they be saying "nai" as in "Mr." to be polite?

In a hooker bar? You're joking, right?

"Hey Mr., wanna have some fun?"

.

. . . then take a PGCE in secondary level maths, . . .

I agree with Ijustwannateach.

You might also really improve your chances/choice of available jobs if you could add "Science" (General or individual subects) to your Maths PGCE as teachers for those subjects/subject combinations also seem to be scarce and desired in Thailand.

ST

I recently notice that some of the girls at a bar I have been frequenting for many years started to put the word อ้าย ("ai") in front of my name when addressing me. I was a little confused because I had always been aware this was a derogatory addressing prefix and the girls using it were the girls who had known me for many years without issue. I made some discrete enquiries and found it is also used as an expression of friendship and should feel honored that they are using it. Is there a female equivalent I can use when addressing them.

Are they definately saying "ai"? Could they be saying "nai" as in "Mr." to be polite?

ST.

Contrary to what ANYONE says at ANY school, it is my experience that there are no pioneering revolutionary new break-thru methods in learning the thai language.

To learn this language takes; TIME, dedication, hours of practice outside the class, and then quite a bit MORE TIME. Anyone thinking they are going to attend a thai language school the government required minimum of 4 hours a week and speak anything resembling thai, IMHO is just plain deluding themselves.

I have YET to meet a single person attending ANY school for those few of hours a week who could speak anything close to thai. I have met more students than I can count who could parrot phrases from the text book like 'trained seals', err I mean 'trained parrots'.

What I didn't meet were students who could understand the meaning of what they were parroting when asked to translate what they read into engrish, nor did I meet any who were able to used previous learned vocabulary to construct other sentences. Also for the most part if the teacher went even slightly off script when phrasing the question (if she didn't say EXACTLY what was in the book word for word, even if the meaning was the same) the students were completely lost.

Quite honestly no one needs to attend a thai language school for a week to see if their methodology meshes with the way you learn things. If you can't tell in an hour lesson if a school's method will work for you, most likely IT WON'T.

I believe the school(s) which offer a week's worth of free lessons do so because their books/classes repeat endlessly. The very first time you enter the classroom you might be on page 6, page 66 or page 106. There will be students in that class who have sat thru the book many, many number of times and can parrot it word for word. Some students have english transcription above every word in their book and read it that way. It can and often is discouraging for a beginner to walk into a learning environment with sooo many disparate levels of students in one class.

Depending on what you want from a school; an easy year's visa, to speak, to read, to write or any combination of the above, the different methods used by the various schools in teaching thai will work better or worse for you and your goals.

I urge everyone to try as many free lessons at as many different schools as you have time for. Believe me, one school's method WILL click with your way of learning, of that I am certain.

Did I write this? Matches my experience/observations. Agree with every word. Are we in the same classes/schools Tod?

ST

There are a number of people who write their name at the end of messages, I'll leave it to you to check out who. I didn't see any comments about not using names next to their posts. In the absence of clear rules I used the precedent, on that basis I thought it was reasonable to state names.

The absence or presence of names was not the major issue in most cases. But, so as not to lead this topic off track again: enough said.

ST

I'd welcome any recommendation on a 'beginner's book'.

I intend to start a local course in January but would like to get a head start, I've looked in Sengho in Phuket but couldn't find one - or a staff member who could assist - I'd imagine they would have them they have so many books on speaking Thai, if i have a title/author it would help.

Thanks

genghis61

Recommendations are common throughout this forum.

You need to decide if you want to initially just learn to speak, or simultaneously learn to read/write in Thai script. Both options have supporters and critics. The main criticism is that if you don't learn Thai script from the start then you have to learn (at least) one form of transliteration and will not be as correct in your pronunciation.

Speaking/listening only: I suggest Pimsleur Thai as a good starting course.

Speaking/listening with reading/writing options either simultaneousy or afterwards/part way through:-

Linguaphone (the full course) is also good but expensive.

David Smyths' "Teach Yourself Thai" book is a cheaper similar (he was part of the design of Linguaphone)

And of course, the Benjawan Poomsan Becker series is also a popular chioce.

"Everyday Thai for Beginners" is another option but it does not use transliteration and starts by intensively teaching the Thai script/reading.

Take a look at these first and see which suits your style of learning.

Whichever you decide, the Pimsleur is probably worth any getting and using as you can use it on your mp3 player all day and it does not need a book at any time which means you are continually practicing.

ST.

Does anyone have a copy of this? I cant find it around anywhere (the one that i bought, nor is it online) ... if someone has a copy perhaps we could trade for ??

Maybe you mean the one which can be found on the Australian National University (ANU) site.

As I can not post a url (against forum rules) do a google search on :-

"Current Publications Available from the National Thai Studies Centre"

and it should be the first link listed on Google and, whin cliked on, I think the book was listed second on the page that comes up.

Hope this helps.

ST

p.s. Comments on the book(s) would be interesting if you have time to do so. I am sure Softwater and others would also appreciate it.

,

Opps my apologies! I didn't realise this! In fact I thought I was being upfront by making clear who I was and what I was representing. We did have a lot of discussions with Thai visa about the name ( and passwords) so perhaps as you say its ok. I have to admit i didnt spend a whole of time on the fine print...but will get round to it soon!

Softwater has a very valid point. The rules need to be clarified.

Personally, I prefer the format where the sponsor (or any other company) has a user ID that clearly identifies that it is a company.

Their post should also make clear that this is a company comment, not a personal unbiased opinion. (can a header be added to individual company posts stating so?)

One issue with some of the previous companies postings was that this was not seen to be being done transparently, could be misinterpreted as an individual (not in any way associated with the company being referred to) offering a personal opinion. That could be seen as abuse of the system (deliberately or otherwise) and misleading to forum members.

ST

(Edited for spelling (forclarirty). There may be more. )

Is anyone aware of any web sites that list all (or most) of the universities in Thailand? I'm interested in attendance, locations, or any other general statistics. Thank you.

Mnbcm,

Yes. But as posting of url's is not permitted you will need to piece this together.

studyinthailand [dot] org (note: not "com")

Regards,

ST

Good day,

I would like to start taking lessons in Thai.

Does anyone know of any beginners courses that run in the day during the week (no weekends)?

I would like to attend two per week. I have seen daytime courses but you are required to attend five days a week and I cannot fit that in.

Something like Monday and Wednesday afternoon would be great.

Near a BTS would be good or even better would be near Chongnonsi/Yannawa areas.

Thanks.

HalfSquat,

Some people like the system, some don't, but there are two benefits to the AUA system; cost (it is amongst the cheapest per hour) and it has to be number 1 for flexiblility of attendance (you chose what days, and what hours you wish to attend, as few or many as you want in a day with as few or as many breaks as you want). And a free lesson to see if you like it.

If you can get 5 days a week and can handle an intensive course I would suggest a Union style school (like AAA Thai Language school at Chidlom) but if not, then AUA is a different and flexible style that is a gentle intoduction, and better then some other 2/3 day programmes that operate on an ED visa sales basis.

Better still, if you can afford it, would be private lessons at one of the 'good' schools. Look for "genuine" student recommendations, not company sales posts. ( Softwater, Rikker, Tod-daniels, and others , have given some good advice though out many posts in the forum(s).

Hope this is of some help.

ST.

I would like you to explain what you mean by "they TEACH you"

Sorry about that, I was getting a little punch drunk, looking back on my scribbled notes of the various schools.

What I meant about the phrase "they TEACH you" was that this is a no nonsense school, (which is NOT the same as saying it isn't fun, because they make it very enjoyable); just that they drill you, and then drill you some more on proper pronunciation. There is a TON of repetition in getting the tones correct and they hold you to a much higher standard than most native speakers in enunciation and clarity (which is not a bad thing). They are also sticklers for another problem which I see plaguing foreign speakers of thai; proper vowel length (how long you carry out a vowel sound).

They do hammer home the correct pronunciation of "ร" in words, (even though I have rarely if ever heard it that way in casual speech unless someone is acting pretentious or condescending).

One other thing I didn't mention in my earlier post: almost to a school (at least 99.999%) use some method of phonemic transcription (the system varies by school) to get you speaking thai right away. Depending on the school you are exposed to the thai alphabetic system at differing stages of learning.

Many people I have met learned to speak only thru this method, and they speak far clearer than I can. When I ask people interested in studying thai what is their most important goal; to a person they said it was to first and foremost communicate (speak) with the thais around them.

As an aside;

I made the comment to a thai teacher friend of mine the other day perhaps it would be better if they concentrated initially ONLY on differentiating the falling and rising tones in similar words, especially high frequency or high value ones; as those are the words foreigners tend to go "off script" with in speaking (i.e. ขาว-R/ข้าว-F, เสือ-R/เสื้อ-F, ผี-R/พี่-F or ไหม-R/ไม่-F).

I told them it is my experience that the other 3 tones, while very important and markedly different in actual pronunciation (especially the high tone) can mostly be blurred together in colloquial speech as long as proper vowel length is observed yet still seem to be universally understood by thais. They tried it in one lesson and said the students came out speaking at least the falling and rising tones much clearer. (In hind-sight I could have been doing their students a disservice as they were not getting the benefit of differentiating all the tones.)

Anyway, sorry for the inconsistent post, as I said, it was a long tedious and tiresome process trying to remember differences in the schools.

Again I encourage ANYONE who's attended ANY thai language school to post their opinions, and thoughts about their language learning experience.

Tod,

Thanks, that's what I hoped you would say. I have been having problems finding a school that can teach tones; most try to ignore or avoid it. This school might be worth visiting. I'd better go look at the web site to check the location (and the cost as you said it was one of the pricier ones).

Your view(s) was/were helpful. Thanks again. Hope you , and others, supply more.

ST.

Baan Aksorn - http://www.baanaksorn.com/index.php

. . . they TEACH you . . .

Tod,

Thanks. Very informative.

Could you expand a bit on what you mean by "they TEACH you" compared to what the other schools do please?

I think I understand (as in many classes a student (me) often feels a bit passive in class, despite participating. Also, althogh I am no expert, far from it, many "teachers" often prove themselves incapable of teaching correct tones (in fact many times they have argued that they were correct and students were wrong, but when dictionaries and text books were later checked they were proved to have been wrong). Everyone makes an occasional mistake, but with some teachers this was consistently happening.

Having said all that, I would like you to explain what you mean by "they TEACH you", please.

Regards,

ST

.

. . . Our rent in Times Square alone is 260,000 Baht a month so selling a few books will not make a difference. . . .

Walen School - test if yourself, its free

www.thaiwalen.com

MacW,

Ok. A suggestion for you. You say (above) that the cost of a few books does not make any difference. Therefore, if you are so confident that they will like your school and then after the trial sign up for more, give the students the book, and only make them pay for it IF they sign up. That would make it free to try, and, as you say, no problem for you as the costs of the books are insignificant, and YOU are confident that they will sign up anyway because you say it is good. Better still, as an incentive to sign up, do not charge for the book 1, only charge them for book 2 onwards when they sign up to continue further.

Just a suggestion as you set the "insignificant" cost ball in play. It would make you look more sincere.

ST.

I have no dog in this fight (as they say), but am curious to know - for the sake of full transparency - whether it is true, or false, what another poster suggested: that Walen requires one to pay for that "one week free" if he/she chooses not to continue?

Thank you.

Just to confirm MacW's actual words. . . . as MacW's post above was not as transparent as an independent members post would have been. . . .

If they do not like the method they do not pay anything . . .

(apart from buying a book for 390 Baht). . . .

If they like it they just pay for the lessons taken. ...

Kind regards,

Walen School

Hi there

is that assured that one can get a WP on an Non Immigrant -O-, holding one, multiple entries, valid one year?

Yes, some employers might think otherwise as in the past you couldn't but many members have a WP on a non-O.

And I have a WP on a non-ED.

Tywais,

Don't tease the animals! Yes, I believe you despite the number of "can't be done"ers on here. However, there are many restrictions to qualify, and many restrictions on what, where, and how many hours, you can work with your ED based WP as far as I am aware. That means that 99% of the people on here would not qualify. Please give full details if you know them as it is very cruel to tease!

ST

Reason for edit: spotted you are at Uni. Teacher? If so maybe you don't know the exceptions for other ED qualifications/restrictions that apply for apprenticeships, internships, etc. ST.

Hi All,

About 1.5 years ago I attended an after hours club called renovate. There were no bar girls and it was all very civilised compared to other after hour clubs. I would very much like to go there again once the regular bars close, the only problem is that I have absolutely no idea where it is and would really appreciate it if anyone can tell me.....

Thanks

Vigilante,

The first google I did for "renovate bar bangkok" shows the cut and paste below.

1) You seem to be correct: no bar girls - but it is apparently full of massage girls!

2) All very civilised compared to other after hour clubs - So you buy her a drink, walk to your room, politely wait for the bath to run, then jump in.

3) Guess if this is the same club then things have changed in 1.5 years or you were very drunk when you are last there and not very observant. lol.

4) Oh, and I think it may be about to get very full of ThaiVisa members, so be on the lookout!

ST.

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This is the sign you will see from Ratchada - follow the arrows to the club. Some Thais may treat this as a normal club but as far as Farangs are concerned, consider this an after-hours joint. Cheap covers, bottle service, hip-hop and open late. Rammed with girls and is known to attract some of the local massage and member club girls after work. Best to go with other girls or a group of guys but probably not solo.

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