Xangsamhua

You see, I don't rush into things or panic like a lot of others. I weight up the pros and cons. And, in regards to getting a degree The pros and cons seem to be equal, well as a matter of fact, the cons slightly outweigh the pros. Studying, is taking up some of my time I could be spending at work. Anyway, Of course I want a degree, most people want a degreee, I also want a million dollars like most others as well. Not having everything you want is not really a big deal because most people don't have everything they want. By not having a time consuming and money wasting degree is really no skin off my nose, especially if it means I will be able to spend more time focusing on my career.

Aussiestyle, I'm sure if you're intelligent and resourceful you'll achieve your goals reasonably well without a degree, and it's hard yakka doing study if your heart's not in it. Still, a degree's almost a rite of passage now for your generation, so you wouldn't want to be disdavantaged later, even if it's for no good reason. In any case, Nataraja's points are worth considering.

One question: I think you said earlier that your current study is by distance mode, "not an online degree". However, the universities connected with the Open University in Australia offer degrees through both distance mode and online mode. (Maybe the latter is more for postgrad courses.) Last time I looked, external mode consists of printed matter sent to the student and essays returned by post, exams done at a centre somewhere. Online mode provides the readings and lecturer input online and requires participation in discussion forums as well as essays and, sometimes, exams. Both forms of education have equal weight in the Australian university system. The difference is mainly to do with the technology. I'm not aware of any organizations in Australia that provide a mail-order type degree, but then I've been away for a while.

Thank you. Yes, I have heard about the school in Singapore, but I'm only looking for information about non-inter schools in Thailand that may be offering or who are candidates to offer the IBAC.

I have a list of International Schools in Thailand offering the International Baccalaureate (IBAC). Does anyone know of any schools other than International Schools that are offering IBAC at primary, middle years or diploma level?

Anyone remember the infamous Thai Song Greet hotel at Hualumpong, The Atlanta (Soi 2), the Malaysia Hotel and the Blue Fox Coffee Shop in Soi Ngarm Du Phlee? All early hangouts of backpackers.

I stayed at the Thai Song Greet for a couple of days in 1969. It was a dump, but a great place for a young person to pick up travel tips. The downstairs "coffee shop" area really buzzed. A friend and I moved from there to a very nice place in Soi Lang Suan (7?), a private house with a dormitory-style area set aside for backpackers (I think they were called "travellers" in those days). It was run by a German chap and his Thai wife. Soi Lang Suan was very pleasant then with a strong fragrance of frangipani. It was dark walking home, but never any sense of being unsafe (or unsavoury). When I made a bit more money I used to stay at the shiny new Mandarin Hotel on Rama IV. I thought I'd hit the big time then.

This might bring back a few memorys.

[url=http://www.fescanphoto.com/korat/bargirl/index.htm%20-]http://www.fescanphoto.com/korat/bargirl/index.htm%20-[

/url]You might have to manually enter the link

Thanks Hazman, but I couldn't get in to the link. I did manually enter it.

Found it! The link's on this thread at post#232.

I was engaged, then married during my time in Korat, so didn't get to meet any of the ladies in the URL. Pity, they were lovely. Wonder what they're doing now?

This might bring back a few memorys.

[url=http://www.fescanphoto.com/korat/bargirl/index.htm%20-]http://www.fescanphoto.com/korat/bargirl/index.htm%20-[

/url]You might have to manually enter the link

Thanks Hazman, but I couldn't get in to the link. I did manually enter it.

don muang air port was surrounded by ricefiels, the ride into town was an experience on its own

I seem to remember that a cab fare from the city to Don Mueang in 1969 was 20 or perhaps 25 baht. Is that right or is my memory playing tricks on me?

There've been some great postings on this thread, and I've only just started looking at it. Some remarkable memories - pretty right, too, for the period I'm thinking of (1969-75), though some things I'd quite forgotten until now. I didn't live in Bangkok. I lived in Korat and Vientiane - mostly the latter - but visited Bangkok frequently on visa extensions and other business, as well as recreation, shopping and for my wife to have a baby in the old BNH, then in the colonial-style bungalow you can still see at the back of the present hospital. We used to stay at the Suriwong Hotel, which was cheap and clean and had not yet become a popular establishment among gays. With children we later used to stay at the Bangkok Christian Guesthouse, a very pleasant and reasonably priced place, which was low rise and had nice gardens.

Korat was OK, quite well developed, but still a Thai provincial town. Lots of nice little Thai-Chinese style restaurants, but other places for USAF personnel and the few other Westerners (mainly teachers) in town. There was also a VFW which served really nice steaks brought in from the States. After the Thanom-Prapas clique established military rule in 1971 (?) we (teachers in government schools) were not supposed to leave the province without permission from the governor, but in practice this meant that we just had to record in a book at school when and where we were going.

So many things to recall and talk about, but others have done this so well. One comment though. I was in Vientiane from 1969-1971 and late 1972 to end 1975 and find it hard to agree that the old Bangkok was like the new Vientiane. Bangkok in the early 60s, so friends told me, was still a town where people got around by water and the streets were tree-lined, but by the late 60s it was starting to become a concrete jungle and the traffic fumes were pretty unpleasant, especially from the buses. Vientiane, however, was a French colonial town - at least in the centre. There were a few main roads with French and shophouse buildings surrounded by villages. I haven't been there for 10 years now, but I can't imagine the old colonial vestiges to have disappeared in the meantime. There was always quite a different "feel" to Vientiane than Bangkok, at least the Bangkok I knew in the late 60s and early 70s.

Princess Galyani Vadhana was a very gracious lady. We'll miss her. My wife and I extend our sincere condolences to HM the King and the Royal Family at this time.

Having witnessed the bizarre driving/riding and traffic chaos of Hanoi recently I decided that all Bangkok drivers and motorcyclists are highly civilized by comparison. Strangely, though, I didn't have the same sense of lunatics having all escaped the asylum in Saigon.

Nice place. You can sit on the terraces and look across the river to Laos. Good food market in the evenings. The Indochina Market is good for those who like general markets. Nice to hear everyone speaking Lao. I asked a grade 5 student (friend's niece) from a village outside Mukdahan what language the teacher speaks to them in. She said "Thai, but if we don't understand she explains it in Lao". It's a far cry from Bangkok.

Don't want to be in denial. The Nation report may be 100% spot-on; however, it's written by someone anonymous and is attributed to "sources", later referred to as "the source" ("a top Thaksin aide"). How much credence can we give this report? Time will tell, but in the meantime the article has as much credibility as any newspaper reporting deserves.

It's terribly ironic that in a couple years time basically it looks like things are going to return to exactly how they were before the coup drama.

Except that now there's a strong and united opposition in the parliament, the leader of which is the preferred PM of 52% of Thais polled.

The successor party to TRT won the election convincingly. The regional divisions are very clear and give the major parties something to work on.

It seems to me the country has made a step forward. If the military can stay out of things and the PPP can restrain itself from the grosser venality of the Thaksin regime, real political progress is possible.

In his original post he reported certain impressions based on observation and generalization and asked for people's responses: were his generalizations valid or not? That's OK, and people did respond, some with the point that you have to be careful about generalizing too quickly in an unfamiliar culture.

"Profiling" sounds like a technical procedure, something more than intuitive generalisation. That's what I found a bit confusing and wonder why he used that term. Still, it all seems cleared up now and I for one have learnt something.

Yesterday I made one of my periodic shopping trips to Bangkok from Pattaya to stock up on new EFL materials.

When I got to the Language Media Book Center it was closed and inside was absolutely stripped bare.

Does anyone know if it has closed for good or is it merely being refurbished?

I hope they're not closed for good as they're easy to get to. If you're desperate, though, you can go to DK Today, down past the Indra Regent, last soi before you get to Sri Ayudhya Rd. There are more details and maps at http://www.dktoday.net/onlineshop/content/view/12/28/. Scroll down for the English version.

I like to think of myself as perceptive when it comes to people and I tend to profile...

Profiling has always served me well here in the USA and when I came to Thailand I employed my

profiling skills once I met enough Thai people to begin to establish a base-line in personalities for profiling and it has served me well.

What actually is "profiling"? It sounds like something the police do to help catch serial killers. Is it just generalizing or something more sophisticated? How long, or with how many samples, does one have to "profile" in order to arrive at a helpful conclusion?

Wishing all TVers a Happy Christmas and New Year. The times may be uncertain, but this is a season of hope and of thanks for all the good things that we enjoy in Thailand and the good folks we enjoy them with.

How old is Prem now; scary stuff!

Born 26 August 1920 = 87

On current result projections a Democrat led coalition could muster 244 seats - a majority of 8

Possible, but I would expect Matchima (9 seats) to throw in its lot with PPP. They're an old TRT faction.

Xang, I'm not making any argument about this; like you, I don't know which schools here or back home produce the best classroom teachers. Back home, it's considered generally that education majors are not the brightest students in undergraduate work. Anyway, here in Thailand, I wonder if the usual Chula/Thammasat/Mahidol/wherever debate applies at all to Thai teachers. Were the rajabats originally teacher's universities/colleges? That's how it started in the West, in some cases, and the three year "normal schools" developed into four year education unis, and then to all-purpose unis with postgraduate programs, science, math, engineering, etc. I think my mother graduated from the National College of Education, but that's not a well known school.

Yes, it's been difficult to attract top-performing students into undergraduate teacher education programs in English speaking countries. Times have changed in some respects, at least where I come from. When I began my undergraduate studies at Melbourne Uni, secondary teacher trainees did an undergraduate degree and then one year of postgrad Education study and practice. The one year was inadequate, but the initial degree was of good quality. We were assessed differently in the Education year from our primary teacher trainee friends, who were doing a two or three year course, but much more practically oriented. I'm sure they were better trained for teaching. Whether they were better teachers after the first couple of years of real experience I don't know. I think quite a few secondary teachers dropped out of teaching after a while and fell back on what their initial degree could get them in the workplace (public/civil service jobs for the BAs). The fact that they went into teacher training at least partly attracted by the generous government scholarships available at the time may have influenced this. After you'd finsihed your bond you were "free".

The nexus between academic ability, pleasure in working with kids, desire to make a difference, ability to make complex things understandable and to connect with students - all those factors - are not clearcut, as we know. If a university is offering BEd students a good balance between an academic program and a pedagogical (teacher preparation) one and if students really think they want to teach then I would be confident of the outcome, even if the students are not academic highfliers.

Before coming to Thailand I sat on panels for a number of years assessing teachers' eligibility for advanced teacher status. Many teachers attained this status on the basis of evidence of exemplary work. I formed a very clear judgement that, in my region (and I think it would be typical of others), teachers were doing an excellent job. Despite the difficulties regulatory societies make for teachers and despite the lack of affirmation from the media, many teachers are really going the extra mile to give their students a good education both in and beyond the classroom. And those teachers graduated from many different institutions, some through a BEd course, some through degree+Dip Ed, some with no other occupational experience and some who had been in other occupations before going into teaching.

I do believe, however, that any teacher benefits from a good preparation program. Although some people are natural teachers and some are quite gifted, even the most gifted would benefit from a good formal preparation.

Re Thailand, I don't know what the different pathways are for people who want to become teachers. That would influence a generalisation about what university or rajapat is a good one for teacher education studies. I'll be out of the country for the next eight days, but will find out more on my return.

Your questions are good ones, PB. I'm sorry I didn't really address them. Got sidetracked by your initial statement.

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, PB. My sources (pretty credible to me, anyway) tell me that they would look favourably on an Education degree from Chula, Sri Nakharin, Kasetsart, Chiang Mai, Khonkaen, Naresuan (Phitsanuloke) and Songkhla Nakharin. Not so favourably on a qualification from a Rajaphat, though some are good in some areas, e.g. Suan Sunanta (Bangkok) in Early Childhood Education.

Hope this helps. It's obviously subjective though.

Incidentally, I believe not all the best known universities have Education faculties, e.g. Thammasat.

three years later,I think something should be different.

Probably. Sarasas Bangbon opened its doors in 2000 and now has over 6000 students. Very rapid growth. Bound to have been some errors. Hopefully, systems would be in place and settled by now.

I have been tipping a Democrat led coalition outcome all along.

But at what price? Would a Democrat-Chart Thai coalition land us with Banharn as PM?

Aphisit will be the next Prime Minister. If you don't believe me, feel free to send me money when he is announced. If you don't send me money, I will send Chuck Norris to your house to kick your ass....

I hope you're right (about Abhisit, not the Chuck Norris thing)!

I have been tipping a Democrat led coalition outcome all along.

But at what price? Would a Democrat-Chart Thai coalition land us with Banharn as PM?

Check the "Academic Ranking of World Universities" (produced by the Institute of Higher Education, Shanghai Jiao Tong University) for comparison.

They have rankings for years 2003 to 2007.

And there are no Thai universities on that one, either.

Shanghai Jiao Tong rate themselves in the range 203-304 out of the top 500, so it's not just a promotional exercise. The university is highly regarded in China.

Their criteria include prizes and medals won by alumni and staff, "articles published in Nature and Science" by staff and articles cited, plus a value given to all that by dividing the scores by the number of staff members at each institution.

Xang, I'm not making any argument about this; like you, I don't know which schools here or back home produce the best classroom teachers. Back home, it's considered generally that education majors are not the brightest students in undergraduate work. Anyway, here in Thailand, I wonder if the usual Chula/Thammasat/Mahidol/wherever debate applies at all to Thai teachers. Were the rajabats originally teacher's universities/colleges? That's how it started in the West, in some cases, and the three year "normal schools" developed into four year education unis, and then to all-purpose unis with postgraduate programs, science, math, engineering, etc. I think my mother graduated from the National College of Education, but that's not a well known school.

Yes, it's been difficult to attract top-performing students into undergraduate teacher education programs in English speaking countries. Times have changed in some respects, at least where I come from. When I began my undergraduate studies at Melbourne Uni, secondary teacher trainees did an undergraduate degree and then one year of postgrad Education study and practice. The one year was inadequate, but the initial degree was of good quality. We were assessed differently in the Education year from our primary teacher trainee friends, who were doing a two or three year course, but much more practically oriented. I'm sure they were better trained for teaching. Whether they were better teachers after the first couple of years of real experience I don't know. I think quite a few secondary teachers dropped out of teaching after a while and fell back on what their initial degree could get them in the workplace (public/civil service jobs for the BAs). The fact that they went into teacher training at least partly attracted by the generous government scholarships available at the time may have influenced this. After you'd finsihed your bond you were "free".

The nexus between academic ability, pleasure in working with kids, desire to make a difference, ability to make complex things understandable and to connect with students - all those factors - are not clearcut, as we know. If a university is offering BEd students a good balance between an academic program and a pedagogical (teacher preparation) one and if students really think they want to teach then I would be confident of the outcome, even if the students are not academic highfliers.

Before coming to Thailand I sat on panels for a number of years assessing teachers' eligibility for advanced teacher status. Many teachers attained this status on the basis of evidence of exemplary work. I formed a very clear judgement that, in my region (and I think it would be typical of others), teachers were doing an excellent job. Despite the difficulties regulatory societies make for teachers and despite the lack of affirmation from the media, many teachers are really going the extra mile to give their students a good education both in and beyond the classroom. And those teachers graduated from many different institutions, some through a BEd course, some through degree+Dip Ed, some with no other occupational experience and some who had been in other occupations before going into teaching.

I do believe, however, that any teacher benefits from a good preparation program. Although some people are natural teachers and some are quite gifted, even the most gifted would benefit from a good formal preparation.

Re Thailand, I don't know what the different pathways are for people who want to become teachers. That would influence a generalisation about what university or rajapat is a good one for teacher education studies. I'll be out of the country for the next eight days, but will find out more on my return.

Your questions are good ones, PB. I'm sorry I didn't really address them. Got sidetracked by your initial statement.

Great point, Xangsamhua (a nik that doesn't flow quickly off the tongue or the keyboards).

What universities both in Thailand and in the West are the best undergraduate schools for becoming a good teacher?

I'm sorry, PB. I really don't know. Srinakharinwiroj has a good reputation, I think. Still commonly known as Prasarnmitr, it was a significant teachers' college before becoming a university.

As for the West.....? Does any university have a reputation for producing good teachers? I'm sure there are lots of good BEd and BSpecEd type courses, especially at former teachers' colleges, but what about teachers who do a BA or BSc or BCom and then a diploma in education. I'd be impressed if the initial degree was from a major university (i.e. one that's hard to get in to), but I might be quite unfair and the teacher might be a good scholar but not much of a teacher.