Xangsamhua

What nationalistic brainwashing are you talking about?

Well, some things should not be spelled out, for the sake of being able to continue the thread.

History though is an elementary problem here, and how it is interpreted in Thailand, taught in schools, and the very real dangers when one attempts to teach anything approaching real history, or even encourages questioning, which is integral part of development in education. A recent case is a perfect example, in the field of philosophy, here a link:

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=115

and:

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=116

Yes, there are some terrible stories resulting from the lack of academic freedom in this country. I notice that the new proposed constitution guarantees academic freedom "so long as it doesn't contravene one's civic duties or good morality" (or words to that effect - I don't have the document here). This is not really academic freedom, but is perhaps headed in the right direction. It might put an end to cases such as the public humiliation some years ago of the lecturer who questioned the facticity of the Suranaree legend in her thesis.

I wouldn't worry too much about the attempts to instil a national ethos in schools. Kids generally are very resilient and are not going to lie down and accept everything they're told at school. Given Thailand's level of development as a nation state, let alone as a democracy or civil society, the government sees a need for the kind of thing the OP is objecting to. Developed nations don't need it (though national chauvinism is hardly unknown in places like France and the US), but Thai leaders think we do here.

It's not just Thailand. I think you'd find this kind of thing in other Asian countries as well. In Singapore, in addition to Civics they have something called "National Education", the aims of which are "To foster a sense of identity, pride and self-respect as Singaporeans; to know the Singapore story -- how Singapore succeeded against the odds to become a nation; to understand Singapore's unique challenges, constraints and vulnerabilities, which make us different from other countries; and to instill the core values of our way of life, and the will to prevail, that ensure our continued success and well-being." (Extracted from MOE web site).

EP/MEP is a designation normally given to public schools, so yes, I just let private school be an umbrella for any and all varieties.

Thanks IJWT, but it seems odd that there is a specific category for government EP/MEP schools, but none for private EP/bilingual schoools when there are more private bilingual schools than there are government ones (about 2:1 ratio when I last checked with MoE in late 2005). The term EP as you've explained before on another thread was coined by the MoE (I've forgotten the reason why) and the already existing private bilingual schools then had to adopt it in their interface with the MoE. The EP/bilingual schools I have in mind are those that teach core subjects in English or in both Thai and English.

What's the use of an umbrella category that covers both schools where English is taught only as a foreign language and others where perhaps 50% of the curriculum is taught in English? They seem to me to be rather different kinds of school. Thousands of teachers are teaching in private bilingual (or EP) schools. Why not include them in your survey as a category?

Private EP/bilingual school. This category doesn't seem to be on the list, though there are quite a few out there - about 120 in late 2005.

Is Public High School/EP/MEP supposed to cover it?

I sometimes pass by the St. Dominic School on my morning commute, and always wondered who he was. I recently finished reading Voltaire's 'Philosophical Dictionary' and according to him, St. Dominic was a leading figure in the Spanish Inquisition.

It's a small world we all live in.

There's a couple of St Dominics, but the main one, Dominic Guzman, was a late 12th - early 13th century figure who founded the Order of Preachers to preach against the Cathari and Waldensians in Southern France. They were tasked by the pope with running the Inquisition, which was a pretty dozey affair until Ferdinand and Isabella (Columbus's patrons) gave free rein to the Spanish Dominican Torquemada in the late 15th century.

Current Dominicans are generally regarded as a scholarly bunch. The Angelicum in Rome is a Dominican university dating back to the 16th century.

Is it possible either on the forum or via PM to know the name of the language school in question?

a sad commentary on the power of advertising on ThaiVisa! Waylen Thai Language School advertises extensively in this forum offering just such a Thai course complete with all the docs to get the ED visa!

bkkguy

Thanks bkkguy. I have noticed the Waylen ad. but haven't been looking for a Thai language course myself, so it didn't register. The query was on behalf of someone else who'd had an email about it, but had not kept the email. Anyway, now I can tell him to check out Waylen.

I think the advertising probably works. I used Sunbelt a few months ago because I'd seen it on tv.com.

Cheers

Have seen a couple ads where a Thai Language school advertises availabilty of visas happening with their help....What it is??

Is it possible either on the forum or via PM to know the name of the language school in question?

Sorry for the delay in posting something here, but I was given a little holiday from TV!

If you have a teaching qualification from another country, your new school might want to try and get you a non-B. If they can't, or get any resistance, you might want to try and sign up for classes leading to a Bachelor's Degree. If you are actually doing classes in Thailand, then you can probably get a student or education visa. Working might be technically illegal, but the chances of getting caught are not particularly high.

Best of luck to you.

Thanks Scott. I'll pass this on to the people concerned.

It's not for me. I got my teaching ticket in the days when dustless chalk was an exciting innovation, and we all gawped in wonder when the new spirit duplicator was introduced to the school! (The headmaster kept it in his office.)

The case is an unusual one. I don't think the visa is a problem, just the WP.

Penang is nice and the new Malaysian retirement scheme for foreigners is attractive if you have about 90,000+ baht monthly income.

I wouldn't be so skeptical. As I've said in earlier postings there is a requirement in the BMA private EP/bilingual schools domain for education credits for a longer-term WP (3 years at present). This may seem a pretty restricted domain if you're not in it, but there are a lot of schools that fall under it and I would expect that they're Ramkhamhaeng's immediate market for this course.

My school has had people do a similar course at another uni (Suan Dusit) in the past and they did get their extended WPs accordingly. I am also aware of a case recently where a teacher was given only a one year EP on the grounds that the teacher's degree was not related to teaching in an EP. It was an unusual case and the decision seemed very strange, but there you are.

I couldn't say that the MoE are going to be rigidly consistent in their application of a clear set of rules. It all seems, euphemistically, to be a "work in progress", but if a teacher does not currently have a WP and is looking for security and potential mobility of employment as a teacher in the Bangkok area I think the RKH offer is worth thinking about.

(I have no shares in, commission from, nor any connection with RKH, by the way!)

I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this query, but if a teacher with 26 years of experience in vocational education in his country of origin, but with no degree, wants to get qualified for a work permit, where is it best to start? The teacher is in Bangkok and wants to work in a private EP/bilingual school.

Friend of mine once wanted to compliment his American hostess. Told her her house was very "homely". Couldn't understand the strange look he got.

they only want farangs who can teach English well and have acceptable personal habits.

Thanks, I guess we're not talking about Catholic schools having international programs, just English conversation?

And they're just as poorly resourced as govt. schools? I was regularly paying up to 10% of my income on resources when I was in Bangkok, and I wouldn't want to return only to be in the same situation. And the Catholic schools are no more enlightened in teaching methodology than govt. schools? Looks like I'll have to give them a miss.

Yes, I was not referring to international schools, but Thai Catholic schools that run a normal Thai curriculum with English as a Foreign language classes or Catholic EP/bilingual schools.

I doubt a certificate in catechetics is going to impress people much in Catholic or any other schools here unless a Catholic school owner or manager believes you are a believer and s/he's looking for more Catholics to match the professed identity of the school. They have Thai people who can teach catechetics and they only want farangs who can teach English well and have acceptable personal habits.

In Thailand, as far as I can gather, there isn't really any system of parish or diocesan schools, though some dioceses do administer some schools. With some exceptions, therefore, Catholic schools are either run by religious orders or by Catholic families. The latter, to my knowledge, are well known in the Catholic community and presumably sincere in their religious beliefs. The schools vary, of course, in quality and in consistency with Catholic ethics, much like Catholic schools elsewhere. Without a central administering authority, however, the potential for inconsistency is greater. I think the Catholic Education Office in Bangkok just provides support materials and in-service for catechetics. It doesn't monitor the quality of Catholic schools in any way.

Will Singapore be a significant player in Thailand's next decade? They've got plenty of money, they're savvy, they've got supporters here, they increased their investment over 5-fold from 1995 - 2005 and they need a hinterland.

I think TEFLWatch has a role. Some posts are very badly written (though the writers appear to be native speakers) and when they're sounding off about a school you wonder about their credibility. Other posts seem responsible enough. Anyway, you can usually tell after a few posts whether the complaints are credible.

They went through a negative period a few months ago with a lot of personal stuff and then seemed to peter out almost entirely for a while, but they're back on track, hopefully.

A problem for a site that serves as a repository for complaint and accusation is that this role is rather a narrow one and may restrict the site's development as a broader forum, especially if there are other sites providing an effective forum for diverse issues. Still, if those fora don't provide space for a teacher to register a complaint, TEFLWatch can be helpful and, perhaps, encourage a level of accountability among schools that may think they can be negligent without exposure.

On the other side of the medal, though, is the fact that a school can be attacked on TEFLWatch by someone with a personal axe to grind and where sufficient information is not available for a balanced judgement. The schools usually don't like to respond to this kind of thing because TEFLWatch is not itself an accountable investigative instrument and it has no generally recognised authority to pass judgement on school-based matters. The schools under the hammer don't want to get caught up in a game played on someone else's terms and that they can't win because the complainant either won't stop or questions his/her critics' honesty, moral integrity, etc. However, by not entering the ring a school under attack can seem to be validating the complaint.

The mods at TEFLWatch do a good job in my view and some of the discussions are lively and valuable. I think it has a place as a resource for teachers, but its role as a site where disaffected teachers can make a case has to be managed responsibly. If it wants to serve as a kind of union rep for teachers, it must remember that successful unions are usually very careful not to support misrepresentation.

I'm interested in knowing which schools are piloting CLIL (Content & Language Integrated Instruction) following the British Council conference in BKK last September.

As I understand, the CLIL pilots are using English-proficient Thai teachers to teach subject content in English. I think that's what distinguishes it from the majority of EP/bilingual programs in Thailand where content-based English is taught by foreign teachers (though there may be a small number of Thai nationals involved).

I'd also be interested in knowing how they're going. Posters may not wish to identify themselves with the name of their school, so I'd be happy just to get a general idea without anyone naming names.

I'm in a bilingual school and am interested in different kinds of bilingual teaching. That's all. I suppose if I were wanting a more formal update I'd go to the British Council, who I believe have set these pilot programs in motion with the MoE.

It seems "maintenance of morale", an essential principle in Western management, doesn't carry much weight in Thailand. Thai staff are expected to be always available and always willing to take on tasks that may have little relationship to their primary role. Where the need for morale is recognised it takes the form of a bus trip to another province, a party after work or something like that. Of course, in the long run, a loyal Thai employee is looked after in various ways by a benevolent employer.

Foreigners being outside the normal structure of relationships it can be hard for a Thai manager to know quite how to treat them. Some seem to think that a salary that is high by Thai standards (though low for someone who has to return to a Western economy) justifies insensitive and inappropriate treatment.

Having said that, I'm also aware of Thai school managers who go out of their way to retain good quality foreign employees regardless of where they come from - Caucasians, Africans, Asians. They do this by fair treatment, salary incentives and the appointment of foreign managers for foreign staff. As the foreign teachers become more established they become more accepted by Thai staff and better able to deal with the ups and downs of working life in a Thai school.

In answer to the OP's question, I can't see how high foreign teacher turnover in a school where foreign teachers have a significant role would endear the school administrators to parents (unless the outgoing foreign teachers are no real loss).

Ministry of Education to determine new standards for academic standing

The Office for National Education Standards and Quality Assessment is calling a meeting tomorrow to consider new regulations in considering how to adjust the academic standing of teachers.

Mr. Somwang revealed that the academic standing of academics will be determined through the quality of their work and performance, and not certificates or personal evaluations.

This refers to evaluation of academics by number of published articles, presentations at conferences, etc., doesn't it? Not related to school teachers?

They are the same the world over and will use any leverage / advantage to get into your door / pocket.

Tell them that you and your wife donate blood, for a start.

Here is what these people believe in: Kingdom of Jehovah.

I've come across a few nice ones - not pushy, but religion is so important to them I don't think a JW community would be right for just being friends. I think your wife needs to make it pretty clear where she stands. Of course the young Thai JW might be a bit lonely in Romford, too, and might be happy just to be friends, but not when she's on the rounds or in a church setting.

I think the 144,000 is a symbolic figure.

History of Thailand and Cambodia by M.L. Manich Jumsai

Not a great read but very interesting, especially as I now live close to the Cambodian border. Also made me think that Thailand was very very lucky to have escaped European invasion. The British had their hands full in Burma and India, whilst the French always struggled to put down Vietnamese resistance. Knowing that the French could easily invade Thailand, but didn't quite have the resources and full backing from Paris, they were able to take Cambodia and parts of Thailand just by the mere threat of military force. The general feeling here is that it was skillful Thai diplomacy, but from the documents they had no allies and kept ceeding territory every time the pressure was turned up. The First World War rather saved the country.

rych

I'm skeptical of anything written by ML Manich. These books were written many years ago and are rather one-eyed. I'm not sure that Thai historians have a lot of academic freedom unless they concentrate on specialist areas where they're unlikely to offend. Having said that, the books by Chris Baker and Pasuk Pongpaichit, such as their recent History of Thailand, are critical and courageous. However, they focus on more modern Thai history and are less likely to offend traditional sensitivities by questioning nationalistic versions of the past.

I'd recommend the books on Thai history by David Wyatt (died last year) of Cornell University and the Baker and Pongpaichit history cited above.

I am reading `The Rise and Fall of the third Reich` William L Shirer,If your interested in Europeans history its a must.

The film that Matt dillon did about Bukowski was great have not read anything from him yet,wife reads alot of his stuff though,

`The world according to Garp`by Irving worth a read as well.

regrds Ercorn

The first two parts of Richard J. Evans' trilogy on the Third Reich are very good. They are "The Coming of the Third Reich" and "The Third Reich in Power". The third book in the trilogy is still to come. "A Small Death in Lisbon" is a Gold Dagger winning novel about SS smuggling into Portugal in the Second World War and the postwar aftermath. Elie Wiesel's "Night" is a must-read very short account of a teenager's experiences in a Nazi concentration camp.

Somerset Maugham has always been a fav, especially The Moon and Sixpence, and his Asia travelogue has maintained its freshness despite its age (I hear Bendix revving up to add Graham Greene).

Actually, I'm not reading Greene at the moment. He's taking a break (although I did just find a first edition of his collected letters to the press, believe it or not).

I currently have 3 on the go. I just finished Evelyn Waugh's Diaries, so I've moved onto Humphrey Carpenter's 'The Brideshead Generatioon', a sort of collective biography of Waugh and his friends like Harold Acton, Graham Greene, Brian Howard and John Betjeman and the Mitfords. Great stuff.

For light relief I'm re-reading Donna Tartt's Secret History. A perfect counterweight to the Carpenter book.

And I'm also reading Wittgenstein's Poker, a great account of the meeting between Wittgenstein and Karl Popper at Cambridge in the forties, and a meeting that changed the face of modern western philosophy.

Agree with Bendix - Wittgenstein's Poker is a great read if you like the personal stories behind the great thinkers. Bryan Magee's Confessions of a Philosopher is a good one if you like that sort of thing. Quite a bit in there about his friendship with Popper.

Very interesting, Eek.

Shows how important it is to get a feminine perspective.

Hi, I've been reading this forum for awhile, hoping to retire to Chiang Mai in 6 years. Saw an article about the 20 best islands to live on, including Penang, Malaysia, in the latest Islands magazine. Their description got me curious so I did a search here and found thousands of posts about Penang. Appears to be very popular for visa runs. I'm wondering what everyones' opinions are for Penang as a place to live? Malaysia's retirement plan for foreigners, Malaysia My Second Home, just looks light years easier to deal with than Thailand's. What am I missing? Is Thailand so much better that it's worth the visa hassles to be there? Please take this as someone who has never been to Thailand or Malaysia, just investigating options. Thanks!

Nice place, Penang. Lots of English spoken and the MMSH deal looks good if you have the monthly income (over 90K baht from memory) to cover it. You can buy your own house and live in a well educated community. Penang is over 60% Chinese and the different ethnic groups seem to get on very well. Mind you, Chiang Mai is very nice, too, and somewhat cheaper. Shopping is better in Thailand, if that's a consideration. If I didn't have strong ties here in Thailand (no pun intended) I'd seriously consider Penang.