dbrenn

I've paid about 5 years of NI. I haven't paid any for over 15 years. If I were to start paying, how much would it be approximately per month?

Is there any chance that they'll lower it to 20 year in 20 years time?

Neerham, you'd need to check the exact rule with the Pension Service, but when I made back payments the rule was that you can back pay for seven years from the date you make payment and that the payments you make are at the rate you would have paid had you paid on time.

So from memory, you now can pay back as far as 2001 and you would make payments for 2001 at the rate payments where in 2001 - 2002 payments at 2002 rate etc.

That may have changed since the 30 year rule came into effect so do check.

Interesting topic, and as a non-resident UK national I have often thought of making these NI back payments / payments, just in case my life does not go according to plan and (God forbid) I end up, broke and old, back in the UK. Does anyone have the contact details on how to register and pay the contributions? WIth this new 30 year rule, I could sqeeze in the full pension even now.

OP would do well to do a bit more research than simply dreaming up fantasy scenarios while sitting on the toilet.

First, falang are not allowed to do work that Thais can do.

Translation: there are numerous Thais who can wash pots in a restaurant and many will do it for even less than $5 a day.

12K quid will buy a nice holiday and opportunity to learn something about the country, its ways, customs and its labour laws.

Menial work like pot washing is not open to foreigners. In order to get a work permit, and permission to stay here, the OP would need to work in a profession that is not on the following list.

http://www.ethailand.com/index.php?id=1836

Many foreigners start off teaching English. The OP might want to consider that, if he has the right qualifications. Otherwise, given that he is only 20, the OP would be well advised to study and gain a profession that is in demand in Thailand before he leaves the UK. His 12k quid would be best spent on furthering his education. Life is very hard here if you have no money - harder than most people think, and $5 per day would mean living in misery once the novelty of being here wears off.

It won't be long before many more countries move to a similar type of system that Australia uses for Tourist visas. Techinically, all people to Australia need a visa to enter. Most Western nationalities + Japanese, Sing, HK and Malaysians get what are called ETA visas - essentially an electronic invisible visa issued online. What many don't know is, as the online visa is 'processed' your name is actually run against a range of internationally shared databases. The US is one country actively investigating this system, and so are the EU by all accounts.

There's a big difference between Western developed nations and third world nations. Developed (rich) Nations need to be more careful to keep people out whereas most 3rd world nations desperately need the revenue.

Tourism is a great earner, especially the the type which leaves after three weeks, and an electronic visa will do little to disuade people from travelling. A bit like the fuel levys that airlines have. It still doesn't stop you travelling.

I'd also humbly submit that while Thailand would benefit greatly from an open skilled migration programme in the same way as Singapore does, Thailand does not 'desperately' need the revenue from visa runners. As we've debated and proven time and again, the so-called 'long stay tourist' would count as a rounding error on Thailand's GDP accounting.

But anyway, my point in the quote was more to do with security, rather than immigration numbers. I've always been a proponent of skilled migration programmes and humane immigration laws for families living here.

Agreed - Australia's ETA is a good system. I got one once and it only took a few minutes and a telephone call to the Aussie Embassy. In these days of computerisation, Thailand should use such a system to keep all the undesirables and criminals out. Too often, it seems, this country is used as a hiding place for fugitives and criminals that an ETA like system would stamp out.

Agreed also that Thailand, like every other country in the world, sees tourism as a money earner. Long term visa runners - residents who lie that they are 'tourists' , don't bring in significant amounts of money, are wantonly flouting its immigration laws, and cause national embarrassment when the criminal elements among them use the place as a hide out.

Where else in the world could anyone get away with that? Good on Thailand for enforcing the rules

oi - dbrenn. Just because you followed the rules, stayed legal, and bothered to make your way all the way to citizenship, doesn't mean you should get uppity. I mean how dare you???

Peru

Brazil

Mexico

Philippines

India

Indonesia

Cambodia

Nicaragua

(many others I am sure)

All top of the line countries I'm sure. Desperate in most cases to stop their own people pissing off elsewhere. If you can't keep your own people, you'll of course lower your standards to get people - anyone - stay there.

Don't bother comparing Thailand to USA or Europe.

I always find this a rather self serving argument. You want your country to develop, you look towards worlds best standard. That includes enforcing proper immigration rules.

Hmm - not even sure that the info above is correct. A friend of mine has a Brazilian wife and he told me that there is a 6 month per year maximum stay for, ahem, 'tourists'

And, pardon me for getting uppity, but did go to great lenghts and considerable expense to follow the rules. I had medicals, criminal record checks and the like. Don't see why Thailand should throw open its doors and let people live here who lie about their purpose of stay and avoid any kind of background check.

The proposals are, check out existing visas that you are eligable and apply for one. If you are not eligable, you are obviously very rich, so spend some of your time in another country. Why is it that you whingers have the ingenuity to get yourselves to thailand, work out how to abuse the system, yet don't have the wherewithall to make it from Thailand to Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, Phillipines, Vietnam, China etc?

Yet another person upset about long-stay tourists. Can't you guys give it a break? - we're well aware of your problems by now.

I don't suppose you realise this is a thread about tourist visa applications done in Penang. That's in Malaysia, so obviously we tourist visa applicants travel.

Give what a break? Give distaste for telling lies to the authorities and breaking the law a break? Maybe I am missing something here, but the definition of a tourist is one who travels and temporarily stays in a country for the purposes of tourism, i.e. sighseeing or visiting friends. Can't see why all these people here are complaining that they are suddenly no longer able to get recurring tourist visas to stay here ad infinitum, that they are no longer allowed to exploit loop holes in the rules and short cut the proper channels of taking up residence in Thailand. All we hear is that the rules are too onerous in preventing these 'tourists' from living and / or working here illegally. People make false declarations to Thai Embassies and to border control regards true purpose of stay are breaking the law, plain and simple.

Where else in the world could anyone get away with that? Good on Thailand for enforcing the rules.

What is the best location with the quickest and easiest way to renew a Thai passport that will expire? I have booked a trip but did not realise that my partners Passport will expire soon.

Thanks

Although Central Bang Na is not in central Bangkok, it is easy to get to via the expressway. Fast service there too - I was in and out in around half an hour when I applied and less than 10 minutes to pick up the passport a couple of days later. Chaeng Wattana (albeit a few months back) has a lot of road works and nightmarish traffic jams.

Except the right to vote. Amazing! What I thought was the most basic right isn't extended for 5 years after becoming a citizen. I have been annoyed all day, even though my vote wouldn't have made the slightest difference. Would be interested if anyone else knows of countries that grant citizenship without such a basic right.

Re the visa/overstay issue. It's REALLLLLY simple: 1: you are in Thailand on a visa or permanent residency 2: Your citizenship application is approved and you become Thai. 3: Your visa/pr is automatically null and void: it is impossible to overstay something that is null and void and you can not overstay something that doesn't exist.

I don't quite understand why people are confused about this or find it a point of discussion. It is not the same as a Thai citizen entering and leaving the country on the passport of their other nationality: of course they would be subject to an overstay fine like anyone else.

Chalette, I was a bit surprised too. But in actual fact you only have Thai nationality now, and nationality strictly defined does not convey automatic voting rights. You will become a fully fledged Thai citizen in the true sense of the word in 5 years. Until then, you can do everything except vote ja.

I got my card yesterday, a week after registering the paper work. Would have prefered not to have had the delay but didn't want to make a fuss for an extra week when the officer was pleasant enough. Y'day's experience didn't start out pleasantly. The head of the card issuing section, to whom we were directed, arrived late, drunk, unshaven and obstreperous. HE would have to interrogate me and verify all of my paperwork (approved by his superior) before I would get a card and I could come back on another day at his convenience. We both got annoyed and pushed him to a 3 p.m. appt. he clearly had no intention of keeping as he refused to give us an interview slip. So we went back to the head of the registration section, told her of his refusal and she kindly went to tell him the application was approved by the interior minister, not him, and the paper work had been signed off by the district office head. He was cowed into submission but just as ugly as before, altho thankfully that was almost the last that we saw of him. We were given a form to fill and a queue number by the very helpful front desk staff and barely sat down to wait than we moved to the card processing officer and left by 11 a.m. with the card. It would have been an hour earlier without that ugly character who clearly was sizing us up for cash. It's really unfortunate, as he is the only such person we've struck from the outset of the long journey.

Next step: passport, which I'm aware is a breeze, and cancelling my work permit and visa. Advised the company lawyer today to proceed with the latter and got this reply:

`under the regulations of the Immigration Bureau, when we cancel your Temporary Stay Permit, you will be required to

leave Thailand within 7 days. Your case, however, is different from other general cases as you are now Thai and can arguably (my italics) stay in Thailand legally.

No argument about it in my book! The lawyer was a little chagrined when he called in response to my question why a Thai would have to leave the country

Conjgratulations Khun Chalette krub .... having an ID card with all the rights that it confers is a weight off the mind.

Hi All,

A friend of mine had a rather unpleasant experience the other day. While boarding a flight to Australia, the bottle of Johnnie Walker Blue Label that he had only just purchased at the air side Duty Free shop at Suwannabhumi was confiscated by the security staff at the gate. To add to his annoyance, the people in the Duty Free shop had just told him that he could take it on his flight. Faced with the possibility of missing his flight, he had to let his expensive bottle of whisky go.

This raises an interesting question: Why do they sell things in the departure Duty Free shop that will get confiscated when you board your plane? I mean, you have to show a boarding pass to make the purchase, so you are going to have to get on a plane right???

Wonder what happened to that bottle of whisky.... some drunk airport security staff later that night....

Oh, and another friend complained that public taxis that use the meter are getting harder to find these days. He was asked for 400 Baht by the guy writing out the tickets on what looked very much like a public taxi stand.....

Cheers!!

I think what they are trying to say is that you are currently in Thailand under a visa on your non Thai passport. Now this visa is cancelled as it is no longer required, fine. Now when you leave Thailand you will use your Thai passport unless it is a country where Thailand requires a visa for entry and you other passport does not but if you were to leave Thailand on your non Thai passport, the system would see that your visa was no longer valid and thus, you would be on an overstay on that passport.

I appreciate that legally you can no longer overstay but the paperwork does not have common sense rather just right and wrong and in this instance, your non Thai passport would potentially be flagged as overstay. Now whether this can be resolved at the airport by showing your Thai passport is the question ?

I once read a similar post in the Phuket Gazette website. The response (from an immigration official) was that a Thai national who enters and overstays on a foreign passport is still liable to pay the fine, but can not be deported.

Showing two passports is the only option now. The sticker in your Thai passport to show that you have UK right of abode (known as a Certificate of Entitlement) has been discontinued. You now have to show your UK passport to enter and leave the UK, just as you are supposed to show your Thai passport at Thai immigration.

No problems showing two passports as described elsewhere.

Hey guys;

Is it possible to apply for PR after having lived in Thailand for 5 years on tourist visas ? Or does only non-immigrant ones count ?

Thx

Only Non-Immigrannt visas count. You need three consecutive one-year extensions with no breaks, and also a work permit. You also need to show that you have paid personal income tax in Thailand for those three years.

Like most other places, tourists visas are issued to people who declare that their intended visit is for the purposes of tourism, i.e., they are not supposed to work, are expected to import sufficient funds for the duration of their stay, do not file tax returns and are not issued work permits.

I don't fully agree with you that the right comparison is like with like since the Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs.

Do you mean like how any westerner can come to thailand and recieve a entry on arrival stamp without any background check, due process or fee?

Or do you mean like how if a Thai wishes to visit a western country they will have to apply for a visa, in a lot of cases be scrutinised and even humiliated by western embassy staff(although these are often Thai staff!). For most there will be a large fee up to thousands of baht, quite often nessecitating overnight or multiple night stays in BKK thus adding to costs. For many who have had long and solid marrages to a westener, even bearing their children who become western citizens also, they will still have to go through this whole visa process when visiting that western country. Is this waht you mean when you say that "Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs"?

I agree that it has been a unsettling time, with regards to residency and visa issues, for those of us wish to make Thailand our home, but PLEASE do not always be so quick to assume that Thai's are always treated so much better in our reciprical countries. Just remember that any Thai, who has a passport and enough money for a plane ticket, can't just hop on a plane and on arrival will be greeted with a smile and a entry on arrival stamp in their passport.

I hope that the future will be brighter for long term "commited to Thailand" foriegners and I also hope that one day my wife can travel freely throughout the world alongside her husband and HER children.

Here is your answer: www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=129155

Now i see the following:

You make a blanket statement satating "Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs"

I answer with a very reasonable FACT that even the most basic of entry rights for tourist is so absolutely far removed from your statement that "Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs"

You reply with another thread which tries to give some legitimacy to why thai's have to go through this visa process without actually answering your blatantly STUPID remark that "Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs"

When people such as yourself come to these ludicrous statements you build a stereo type of the Thai person that is far removed from the truth. I don't know if it because of a lack of education or knowledge on the subject matter, or because you have a holier than thous attitude which unfortunately some guests of Thailand and other non-western countries have.

You need to wake up and look at the facts...not make absurd statements which are wrong in so many ways.

I'll say it again...I hope that over the course of time that there will be a bright future for foriegners committed to Thailand and at the same time i hope that western countries become more liberal with entry on arrival stamps for Thai's.

The point is that immigration laws aren't fair anywhere, they only serve the national interest:

1) Most western countries only grant skilled migrant visas to people with solid professions and under a certain age - blatant elitism, not to mention agism, which is illegal in most of those countries.

2) Same westernm countries won't allow in people with infectious diseases, blatantly discriminating against people with special needs

3) Criminals aren't welcome anywhere - shouldn't the west, as guardians of moral standards, be trying to rehabilitate foreign offenders who9 may not enjoy the same opportuni9ties in their home countries?

4) Then there is the discrimination against those poor tourists that you so rightly describe. Have you ever heard of Thais living in the UK for years on end by circumventing the rules doing visa runs?

Now that we are again on the topic of whining about lack of perfect global equality, mother nature isn't fair either:

1) Some people are born handicapped

2) Different people are born with a different IQ, which has a direct bearing on their employment prospects in later life

3) Many people are born in war-torn countries, and die in early childhood from famine or war, etc, etc, etc ...

Life isn't fair, unfortunately. Going back to Thai immigration, sure the laws differ in certain ways from other places, but then again no two countries have the same set of laws. Not much we can do about it though, because Thailand considers that it can live perfectly well without foreigners living here illegally and avoiding tax by bending the rules. Getting residence, citizenship, whatever is not that difficult in Thailand, but it does mean living and working here bona fide, and also it means paying personal income tax. A way of life that some people understandably might not want to follow if they enjoy better opportunities elsewhere and are not able to meet the requirements.

interesting.

I understand that this current government has been processing the backlog of applications that were not granted under the former reign of Deal Leader. Seems like they are trying to leave a bit of a positive legacy here too.

I would like to think you are being ironical but I have a feeling you might be completely serious.Beyond all comment.

progress and reform come slow. The fact that it is has relaxed the rules is always a huge step meaning that the wait time is cut down by at least three years for those go 3 years to PR with tax and the 2 on PR with tax gets them to citizenship. It opens up Thai citizenship as a realistic goal for 100's if not 1000's of expat workers here in a similar timeframe it takes to get say, British Nationality. Not something to be sniggered at.

Dunno what you were expecting...maybe a red carpet for you and a shiny brown Thai PP waiting for you when you disembarked at the airport?

You are profoundly mistaken I'm afraid.Firstly the relaxation of the rules has been muted for some time: I was told about it by my legal advisor over three years ago.Secondly the indications are that the military junta is opposed to any relaxation of the rules, at least according to the report in today's Bangkok Post - a response that I do not find surprising from this insular and incompetent government and which would tie in with the petulant xenophobia many on this forum have noted.Your comment on a "positive legacy" is simply inexplicable.Personally I received PR several years ago and have no interest in citizenship, but hopefully when this lamentable government has disappeared it will be possible to see some progress in easing the path to citizenship for those who seek it.To date there is nothing of substance to report at all.

How did you qualify for PR? I'm new here and just wondered. Thanks

There are other threads on that topic. You apply for PR at the immigration bureau, and applications are open at the end of each year. Bsically, you need to have been here at least three full years on a non-immigrant visa with no breaks, you need a reasonably well paid job with work permit, and you need three years evidence of having paid income tax. You don't have to be married, but if you are it costs less.

Go to immigration and get the latest checklist - seems rules are changing a lot these days.

Trick Question:-

The requirement says that you should have a certain amount of salary "upon application". If the process takes a few years, and you were to resign in that period, is that ok ?

I cant predict what i will be doing in a few years from now, but would like to submit my application soon.

You need to show your work permit upon application, and also when you are invited to the Interior Ministry to sing the National Anthem. In my case, this was around six months after my application.

After the Interior Ministry, I suppose you could in theory resign because there were (in my case) no subsequent checks on my documents.

For those of you who may be interested in applying for Thai citizenship, the previous requirement that a male applicant must have PR for 5 years before applying has been abolished. The new requirement is that the applicant must have PR and must have been in Thailand continuously for not less than 5 years under a non-immigrant visa category before applying for citizenship. The change means that anyone with PR, irrespective of how long you have had it, can apply for citizenship if they have been here on proper visas for not less than 5 years and meet the other qualifications for citizenship. Other threads on this board list the various qualifications.

This obviously applies to foreign men only. Foreign women do not need PR before making an application for Thai citizenship.

Do the applicant of thai citizenship need to read and write thai.

Or they only need to sing the thai national anthem and speak fluent thai will do.

Thanks !

Discussed here Story of My Thai Citizenship Application

Dbrenn, you are absolutely correct. The 5 years with PR requirement was introduced by the previous government. So, this is not so much a change as a reversion back to the way things were before Dr. Thaksin's government.

I see. But to give the old government its due, it did start signing approvals after a while, once it settled in. Kongsak Wanthana, the Interior Minister under Thaksin, did sign mine after sitting on it for a while. Mind you, all the Interior Ministers seem to sit on applications, signing groups of them sporadically on their way to and from the King's signature, seemingly without any rhyme nor reason. Some are done quickly, others take years on end.

Well, irrespective of your views, younghusband, the Interior Ministry regulations have been amended as I have indicated. The amendment significantly reduces the amount of time a foreign male would otherwise need to wait before making an application for citizenship. As such, the amendment is one of substance in favor of the applicant.

I stand corrected but it surely doesn't reflect -one way or another -on the junta's agenda.

YH,

I tend to disagree based on a couple of factors. I know people have different views on the junta and that is their right (which I respect), but having maybe a bit of a bit of inside perspective of the personalities of this government verus the old one (very minor...but better than nothing) I tend to get the impression that the people in this government are more outward looking that under Thaksin. But that is a side issue to a large extent, except that it is no secret that citizenship applications came to a grinding halt under the last government, which to me says alot when you take into account their nationalist agenda.

Anyway, for me, this change is a huge positive, and nothing to be sneezed at in my opinion. Firstly, I view these things in context with the starting point that Thai nationality is on one hand bloody hard to get. As such, in the past year, we have seen the backlog of citizenship applications being taken care of. I've had one mate waiting to be naturalised since 2000, even though he's been here since he was 3 years old (as a PR since his teens) who just got his citizenship in march this year despite him being as stereotypically Thai as you can get. That could have only come via ministerial discretion which would have been discussed at cabinet level first.

Another thing is obviously this change in regulation. Again, that would have been at the behest of the minister, no doubt discussed at senior levels, which as the Chief Justice said, is a substantial change in the rules.

In terms of the legistlation change mentioned in the BKK post, I view this as a postive light, even though it got knocked down. Under the last government (I had a little to do with them - hence my bad feelings towards them), ministries and departments were basically brow beaten into submission, so that very little 'independent' advice was given to the minister or PM that didn't agree with the perceived views of government. It was a government and burecracy of 'yes' men and women.

The fact that the relevant ministry felt comfortable in being able to propose a relaxation in the law (and do it publically) speaks volumes for me. Yes it got knocked back, but there seems to be a valid discussion going on there which if you even attended a meeting of sychophant advisors under the last government, you'd be singing this junta's praises as well (at least on this matter).

But, that is only my humble opinion.

I think it is true what you say about the last government tightening up the requirements. From my experience, this 5 year PR rule is a recent thing.

The first time I attempted to apply for citizenship was pre-Thalksin in 1998, when I had just got my PR. At that time, as I recall, there was no 5 year PR rule, and my citizenship application would have been accepted had I not had a provincial address on my Tabien Bahn. Since I couldn't be bothered changing my address at that time, and was too busy with other things to travel upcountry to lodge and follow my application, I shelved the citizenship idea for a few years. Upon my more recent successful application in 2003, I did notice the 5 year PR requirement on the application checklist.

It could be that the new government has just reverted to the old set of rules, with the twist of 5 years including time spent on Non-Imm visas. Good news that they are making it easier though.

Sorry - this post was misplaced - should have followed Samran's post on comparisons between the old and new governments. Actually, during the military coup my citizenship application was outstanding and my immediate reaction was to write it off. I figured that a country under martial law ruled by a conservative military junta would be much less inclined to hand out citizenship than a more modern civilian government. Anyway, the application went through OK, and from what Samran is saying it seems the opposite is true ...

Well, irrespective of your views, younghusband, the Interior Ministry regulations have been amended as I have indicated. The amendment significantly reduces the amount of time a foreign male would otherwise need to wait before making an application for citizenship. As such, the amendment is one of substance in favor of the applicant.

I stand corrected but it surely doesn't reflect -one way or another -on the junta's agenda.

YH,

I tend to disagree based on a couple of factors. I know people have different views on the junta and that is their right (which I respect), but having maybe a bit of a bit of inside perspective of the personalities of this government verus the old one (very minor...but better than nothing) I tend to get the impression that the people in this government are more outward looking that under Thaksin. But that is a side issue to a large extent, except that it is no secret that citizenship applications came to a grinding halt under the last government, which to me says alot when you take into account their nationalist agenda.

Anyway, for me, this change is a huge positive, and nothing to be sneezed at in my opinion. Firstly, I view these things in context with the starting point that Thai nationality is on one hand bloody hard to get. As such, in the past year, we have seen the backlog of citizenship applications being taken care of. I've had one mate waiting to be naturalised since 2000, even though he's been here since he was 3 years old (as a PR since his teens) who just got his citizenship in march this year despite him being as stereotypically Thai as you can get. That could have only come via ministerial discretion which would have been discussed at cabinet level first.

Another thing is obviously this change in regulation. Again, that would have been at the behest of the minister, no doubt discussed at senior levels, which as the Chief Justice said, is a substantial change in the rules.

In terms of the legistlation change mentioned in the BKK post, I view this as a postive light, even though it got knocked down. Under the last government (I had a little to do with them - hence my bad feelings towards them), ministries and departments were basically brow beaten into submission, so that very little 'independent' advice was given to the minister or PM that didn't agree with the perceived views of government. It was a government and burecracy of 'yes' men and women.

The fact that the relevant ministry felt comfortable in being able to propose a relaxation in the law (and do it publically) speaks volumes for me. Yes it got knocked back, but there seems to be a valid discussion going on there which if you even attended a meeting of sychophant advisors under the last government, you'd be singing this junta's praises as well (at least on this matter).

But, that is only my humble opinion.

I think it is true what you say about the last government tightening up the requirements. From my experience, this 5 year PR rule is a recent thing.

The first time I attempted to apply for citizenship was pre-Thalksin in 1998, when I had just got my PR. At that time, as I recall, there was no 5 year PR rule, and my citizenship application would have been accepted had I not had a provincial address on my Tabien Bahn. Since I couldn't be bothered changing my address at that time, and was too busy with other things to travel upcountry to lodge and follow my application, I shelved the citizenship idea for a few years. Upon my more recent successful application in 2003, I did notice the 5 year PR requirement on the application checklist.

It could be that the new government has just reverted to the old set of rules, with the twist of 5 years including time spent on Non-Imm visas. Good news that they are making it easier though.

I thought this thread was a good demonstration of someone pissed off that he can't come and live in thailand cause he thinks that the Thai government owes him something. Given that they can't the accuse everyone of racism, xenophobia and discrimination.

Funny, I know way too many farangs who have done incredibly well here to beleive that. But, they had to work for it.

I have long detailed my situation.

I'm still waiting for some of you Illuminati to show me how I can fully legally move to Thailand on a the long term basis needed to build one's own family's future.

Thank you in advance.

Easy BAF, just meet the requirements.

Sorted.

...and you're welcome.

Right. Move to Thailand, get a job, pay tax, apply. I did it, and now I am a Thai citizen, and it's not all that hard. You don't even have to be married, actually, like you do in Italy.

Sitting on one's butt in Italy bleating about injustices won't get our complaining friend anywhere, I'm sorry to say. He needs to make some tough life choices that may include actually going to live and work in Thailand if he wants any kind of legal status there.

Sad, but true what you say about the missed expectations of our Italian friend. The irate poster should have done his due dilligence before getting married to a Thai national regards recoprocity of immigration laws between Thailand and Italy. A valuable message to all those would-be farang husbands out there expecting to get something more than true love out of a Euro-Thai union, I guess.

1 It states on this website that a re-entry endorsement one year muli entry is only 1000 baht. For my last 2 years I have paid more than 5000 baht. Can anyone confirm this price.

2 My permanant resident book is now completely full, do I need to get a new book or is it possible to get additional pages.Is it quicker to do tis in Bangkok?? Any additional info would be good.

There are actually two stamps that you pay for, both valid for a year, if you want to leave Thailand and return again with PR status:

1) "Non-Quota Immigrant Visa" in your passport. Cost: 3,800 Baht for multiple entries

2) Endorsement in your Certificate of Residence (Blue Book). Cost: 1,900 Baht (no differentation between single and multiple)

Total cost is therefore 5,700 Baht

When your Certificate of Residence (Blue Book) is full of stamps, you will need to get a new one. If I remember correctly, the cost is 1,900 Baht (in 2004). Not sure how much it is now though. To get a new book, take all your usual docs plus your Tabien Bahn to the immigration department. Used to take around a week to issue the new blue book, which is actually white and marked "Duplicate Certificte of Residence".

Cheers

so what is your point?? that Italy is better?? ok i belive you.

so if italy is so good then stay there.

but if you wish to come to thailand... then play by the rules and get your self a lawyer that can do it for you. whining and bitching on this forum is not going to get you a PR

Bravo! *Applause* Here here here.

Whining and bitching never gets you anything in Thailand. To gain status in Thailand you have to make some life choices, stay here, pay tax, get off your arse and do something about it - even if it does mean following all those horrible rules. Then, anyone can get PR and even become a Thai citizen.

On the subject of whining, do people in this group realise that most countries in the western world reject certain categories of would-be immigrants on medical grounds, or on the grounds that they have nothing to offer society? How absolutely terrible! People with special needs actually get refused visas???? What awful discrimination!!!

Tell you what, let's all move to Italy - we all believe that it is so much better than Thailand. But wait! Hang on a second. I wonder why the poster here with the chip on his shoulder keeps carping on about getting status in Thailand, a country that he despises and calls a banana republic, when he is in his Italian Utopia already? He makes no sense to me.

Some people want to have their cake and eat it. Thailand couldn't care less.

You made a lot of valid points that small minded people do not want to see nor can realise.

When the US decided that too many Italians where coming to the US and not returning to Italy, they created a ridiculous visa fee.

Italy retaliated in kind, and all the Catholic (I want to see the Vatican Americans), and loads of tourists where so outraged at the tourist fees they had to pay, that the US govt. quickly abandoned the visa idea.

Equality can only be gained by matching fire with fire.

Yes, yours is a perfect example.

In 1920 the US started to ask a $10 visa fee from each and every foreigner wanting to visit the USA (it wasn't just a thing with Italy, it was unrelated to overstayers and the Vatican had no role). Their move was in retaliation of other govts' visa fees and the US hadn't been asking, up to that time, any visa fee.

Many foreign governments unjustly hit by the $10 fee quickly retaliated themselves and the end result was the visa free agreement with Germany, Italy, Belgium, Denmark, Esthonia, Finland, Sweden, Switzerland, Japan and Russia, a reduced fee (from $1 to $4) for France, Bulgaria, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Czechoslovakia, Jugoslavia, Austria, Chile and Spain, a reduced fee of $6 for Turkey and the $10 fee for the rest of them.

So the system quickly found a balance and fee were abolished for those countries not taxing American tourists and reduced to levels corresponding to those of the other countries still doing so.

Explain this then. Australia requires everyone, except New Zealand citizens, to get a visa. At present, it will cost about $20. Why hasn't everyone retaliated against Australia? From experience, after the Irish and NZ passports, the Australian passport is one of the easiest in the world to travel on....

One other thing about Australia - it has a points system that disciminates on the grounds of:

1) Age - forget it if you are over 45. That's age related discrimination

2) Education - that's elitism

3) Work experience and profession - ditto 2) above

OK, Australia doesn't have a sexist policy (still got my PR there), but has a discriminatory line in a variety of other areas. Ditto for the US, EU & UK, I suppose. We could find areas of immigration policy somewhere that discriminate about something. Let's all waste valuable life harping on about it.

To be honest, I used to harp on too. But i did something about it, even though it may have cost me in other areas, like that fact that I didn't have the luxury to lounge around studying in Italy or any Western country for that matter, I persevered and proved that it is possible.

Cheers

There is a 3-year business visa available (only from embassies) but it's intended for frequent business travellers not residents (doesn't permit work).

As John says, the only other thing that remotely fits your description is the Elite Card, an item to be avoided in the current situation.

For Aussies or Kiwis there is also the (much cheaper) APEC card. Valid for 3 years and gives you 90 days on arrival, no limit on number of times that you can come here.