dbrenn

I may be out of date on this but the last I heard on this subject was that a Thai citizen who wished to transfer funds overseas, could only do so for a number of specific purposes which had to be stated at the time, a previous poster has described some of these reasons.

As I've already said, I'm a Thai citizen, and I transfer money out regularly using BBL and SCB Internet banking.

The BBL Internet bank allows you to set up foreign bank accounts online, choosing from a list of reasons for the transfer. When you then select to pay money to that beneficiary at any time in the future, the reason that you chose during the registration process appears on the remittance.

Using the online form, you can set up as many beneficiaries, each with their own reason, as you like. You can choose from a list of reasons, and there is no verification process to check whether the reason you chose was the actual reason. Once a beneficiary is set up, you can transfer money to it as often as you wish, so long as you stay within your USD 500,000 annual limit.

It really is that easy.

It is allowed to bring cash to Laos. A moneychanger there converts your Baht into USD. Cheaper than banks.

A maximum of THB 50k I believe.

And only good for people who feel safe carrying wads of cash around and who are sure that the money changer is an honest one. Regards taking cash in the form of bank notes, out of Thailand, the Bank of Thailand regulations are as follows:

A person traveling to Vietnam, the People's Republic of China (only Yunnan province) and Thailand's bordering countries is allowed to take out up to THB 2,000,000. Taking out Thai Baht bank notes in an amount exceeding THB 450,000 requires declaration to a Customs Officer.

A person traveling to other countries is allowed up to THB 50,000.

As regards bank rates, the cash rate is always inferior to the TT rate. For example, if I were to buy USD with Thai Baht in cash, the bank would sell USD to me at 32.88 Baht per 1 USD. If on the other hand I were to buy USD with Thai Baht via TT, wiring the money into a foreign bank account, the bank would sell them to me at 32.72 Baht per 1 USD.

The OP was selling a house, so let's say it was worth a modest 2,000,000 Baht (the cash limit to take to Laos). Comparing prices:

2,000,000 Baht cash gets me USD 60,827.25

2,000,000 Baht sent to my foreign bank account gets me USD 61,124.69

I may be out of date on this but the last I heard on this subject was that a Thai citizen who wished to transfer funds overseas, could only do so for a number of specific purposes which had to be stated at the time, a previous poster has described some of these reasons.

As I've already said, I'm a Thai citizen, and I transfer money out regularly using BBL and SCB Internet banking.

The BBL Internet bank allows you to set up foreign bank accounts online, choosing from a list of reasons for the transfer. When you then select to pay money to that beneficiary at any time in the future, the reason that you chose during the registration process appears on the remittance.

Using the online form, you can set up as many beneficiaries, each with their own reason, as you like. You can choose from a list of reasons, and there is no verification process to check whether the reason you chose was the actual reason. Once a beneficiary is set up, you can transfer money to it as often as you wish, so long as you stay within your USD 500,000 annual limit.

It really is that easy.

Has anyone been to Cambodia over the last few mths? Just asking if these prices are correct?

Cambodia (Visa on arrival - tourist for $20, business for $25)

It has gone up to $30 now and it's available on the website

Cambodia is visa free for Thai citizens now, for stays of up to 14 days.

It's the same in the US, or was when I departed around 9 years ago. My passport wasn't checked on the way out.

Surely, though, immigration would be able to get proof from the airline that you'd left. When they scan your boarding pass at the gate as you board the plane, checking your ID at the same time -- wouldn't that be proof that you'd really left and not turned back somewhere?

I'd also never heard of him, but looking at some of his articles, I'd say that he's a very brave man.

i would think she would have to prove where the money came from in the first place to buy the house you just sold.

what assets she had before marrying you.

Thanks for your input - can you point me to whre you found this information?

cheers, Wontok

its only what we experianced but that was 25yrs.ago.

the last time the wife deposited a large amount [proceeds from a house sale uk] they gave her an international transfer

certificate as proof of where it came from,in case she wanted to take it out of thailand.

so i am just sumising that they might ask her where she got it from.

The OP case is different. His wife's funds originated in Thailand, as Thai Baht, and were not exchanged into Thai Baht from a foreign currency. I think that there were more restrictions on Thai citizens buying foreign currency 25 years ago than there are now, and Internet Banking didn't exist then either.

All the OP's wife needs to do is deposit the proceeds form her Thai house sale into her savings account, set up international transfers in her Internet Banking, then she can transfer up to USD 500,000 annually to her nominated overseas bank.

Once set up, it's as easy as logging on and transferring cash with a few mouse clicks - just like any other Internet bank money transfer. The only difference is that you are reminded of the USD 500,000 yearly limit every time you make a transaction.

Depending on the relationship between the sending and receiving bank, the money takes one or two days to arrive at its destination.

Thank for the info krisb, I have been through the settling process a few times but I don't think it is as easy as you make it seem.

Medicare is a doddle. You get your blue card, will change to green one when PR is granted.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/medicare/medicare-card/eligibility-for-medicare-card

Medical Insurance

Does the loading apply to TR or PR residents over 31?

ATO and Banking involves tax

If your wife has no assets, then there is not much to worry about, open an account, she can even do this on a tourist visa (pay 10% witholding tax)! BUT if your wife actually has some money we have a whole different ball game. As a resident for tax purposes she must legally declare all income foreign and domestic. The implications of these are quite deep. Without getting into the details too much, any assets or property held in Thailand are taxable income in Australia. My father-in-law was a hard worker on the roads here in Thailand, and he spent most of his pay packet buying land ahead of them. Passed on some 10 years ago and left it to my wife. If she rocks into Australia with over half a million dollars in her pocket, tax wise where does that put her? Would she be best to leave it here? Exchange it? These are the details I'd like to get some discussion going on, they may affect us all.

edit: Something else that just occurred to me, is the 'baby bonus' I think there is a window of up to 18 months or more for claiming it, some members may have a claim to that as well?

Oz

Unless the properties overseas are producing income, why would they need to be declared?

It's called welfare fraud. Hiding assets offshore then claiming welfare benefits that would be subject the asset tests is illegal.

I wasn't talking about claiming welfare.

I was talking about someone coming here from Thailand who has a property in their name that is not income producing.

There is no requirement to declare foreign property or other assets to the ATO for personal income tax purposes, if said assets are not producing income, unless these assets have been disposed of within the tax year leading to capital gain. Assets themselves are not taxable for Australian tax residents, only income or capital gain from those assets is taxable.

As has been mentioned elsewhere, the value of assets is taken into consideration in cases of claiming certain kinds of social security payments, but not personal income tax.

Again, Australian tax law is highly convoluted and tax liability depends on individual circumstances. A tax accountant is highly recommended to make sure that you don't make mistakes here.

Thank for the info krisb, I have been through the settling process a few times but I don't think it is as easy as you make it seem.

Medicare is a doddle. You get your blue card, will change to green one when PR is granted.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/medicare/medicare-card/eligibility-for-medicare-card

Medical Insurance

Does the loading apply to TR or PR residents over 31?

ATO and Banking involves tax

If your wife has no assets, then there is not much to worry about, open an account, she can even do this on a tourist visa (pay 10% witholding tax)! BUT if your wife actually has some money we have a whole different ball game. As a resident for tax purposes she must legally declare all income foreign and domestic. The implications of these are quite deep. Without getting into the details too much, any assets or property held in Thailand are taxable income in Australia. My father-in-law was a hard worker on the roads here in Thailand, and he spent most of his pay packet buying land ahead of them. Passed on some 10 years ago and left it to my wife. If she rocks into Australia with over half a million dollars in her pocket, tax wise where does that put her? Would she be best to leave it here? Exchange it? These are the details I'd like to get some discussion going on, they may affect us all.

edit: Something else that just occurred to me, is the 'baby bonus' I think there is a window of up to 18 months or more for claiming it, some members may have a claim to that as well?

Oz

Unless the properties overseas are producing income, why would they need to be declared?

It's called welfare fraud. Hiding assets offshore then claiming welfare benefits that would be subject the asset tests is illegal.

That's correct.

Breaking the law while on a visa in Oz, even a PR visa, could also result in the visa being automatically cancelled if one is convicted of an offence and sentenced to a year or more in prison. Even a suspended sentence counts. Cancellation of a visa for failing the character test means that (once their sentence is served) the visa holder is deported and permanently banned from Australia.

Welfare fraud and tax evasion are taken seriously. In Thailand, tax evasion (for example) is almost a national sport, and Thais going to live abroad often don't understand how much trouble they can get into for some of the behaviour that they may get away with back home. Get professional advice if in doubt.

Thank for the info krisb, I have been through the settling process a few times but I don't think it is as easy as you make it seem.

Medicare is a doddle. You get your blue card, will change to green one when PR is granted.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/medicare/medicare-card/eligibility-for-medicare-card

Medical Insurance

Does the loading apply to TR or PR residents over 31?

ATO and Banking involves tax

If your wife has no assets, then there is not much to worry about, open an account, she can even do this on a tourist visa (pay 10% witholding tax)! BUT if your wife actually has some money we have a whole different ball game. As a resident for tax purposes she must legally declare all income foreign and domestic. The implications of these are quite deep. Without getting into the details too much, any assets or property held in Thailand are taxable income in Australia. My father-in-law was a hard worker on the roads here in Thailand, and he spent most of his pay packet buying land ahead of them. Passed on some 10 years ago and left it to my wife. If she rocks into Australia with over half a million dollars in her pocket, tax wise where does that put her? Would she be best to leave it here? Exchange it? These are the details I'd like to get some discussion going on, they may affect us all.

edit: Something else that just occurred to me, is the 'baby bonus' I think there is a window of up to 18 months or more for claiming it, some members may have a claim to that as well?

Oz

Simply having half a million dollars will not affect your wife's tax position as an Australian resident for tax purposes, but may of course affect her entitlement to welfare benefits. She is taxed on her income, not on the value of her assets.

Capital gains when disposing of assets, as well as interest or dividend income derived from her assets, as well as any other income derived from abroad, will need to be declared to the ATO as taxable income.

If she rocks up with the said half million, she will only be taxed on any income that it generates. For example, if she puts it in a bank, tax on gross interest will be charged at her whatever is her marginal income tax rate. If she puts it into shares, she will pay tax on dividends at her marginal rate, and on any capital gains when she sells the shares. Capital losses are offset against future capital gains, but cannot be refunded. If she puts it into an investment property, she will be pay tax for any rental income, etcetera.

As a resident she is not entitled to the 10% witholding tax flat rate on bank deposits, although the ATO may eventually put her on a Pay as You Go schedule so that she has to pay an assessed amount of tax on large investments at regular intervals, quarterly for example. At the end of the year, she will be able to claim a tax refund on any over paid amount, or she will be charged for any underpaid tax. All the banks declare interest paid to the ATO, so she will need to be totally honest with them.

Australian tax law is a labyrinth, and I'd strongly suggest that she retains the services of a qualified tax accountant.

^{I am wondering why you guys are having problems with adding photos in your alien books. I was told to add a second one after the first 15 years. The policeman said you should add a new one every 10 years. I have seen books belonging to elderly Chinese who never made citizen in the police station with lots of photographs in then and literally falling to pieces, almost unrecognisable as alien books. Those Chinese must have taken the law at face value and carried their alien books everywhere as ID. Maybe they don't have passports and use the Thai one year passport for PRs to travel. I have seen Chinese applying for this passport at CW but I think only countries in the region acept it. There seems to be no way of getting a new alien book unless you lose or destroy it. Even then they might just cancel your PR as a punishment for doing the unthinkable. The blanks were probably printed in 1927 when they introduced the first immigration act and no one today knows how to print something so shoddy and poorly designed. So they have to make the stock last by grantin very few new PRs and not allowing replacement books.}

It's bizarre that they don't give you a new book.

I remember mine - it looked like a museum piece and was falling to bits from the day I first got it.

It's easy.

All she does is go to her branch with her Thai ID card and the details of her Aussie bank, and they'll set her Internet banking up for international transfers. Get her to print and fill out the forms from the Internet banking portal first. Reasons for the transfer listed on the website include "Gift", "Personal Expenses", "Loan Payment", "Repatriation of funds for Thai residing abroad", etc.

I regularly do outward international transfers online using BBL and SCB Internet Banking. BBL is the best, because once you have set up one international bank account then you can add others with no need to visit BBL branch. SCB requires that you visit a branch for each new added account.

The fees are 300 Baht for the transfer and the rate is the standard TT sell rate. You can pay 1000 Baht and not have to pay any charges to the receiving bank, so it depends on your Oz bank as to which works out cheaper. Commonwealth Bank charges me AU$ 22, Ubank only AU$ 10, so shop around at the Aussie end.

There is a limit for Thai citizens of USD 500,000 per year before you need to declare it to the Bank of Thailand

The kicker for you is that they may be no way of setting up the international transfer facility remotely from Oz. One visit to her bank branch in Thailand to identify herself and sign a form in front of a bank employee is required (for BBL/SCB, and likely the rest as is probably a Bank of Thailand requirement).

That's not important. I was just talking about the logic of trying to convince them not to throw water unto you especially when you're dressed up, a farang and trying to look like you don't want to get wet.

How many Songkran Festivals have you been involved with Thais?

Obviously few, one or none.

If you thinking that the throwing of Water is what Songkran is about then you have little true knowledge of the Festival.

You 'play' Songkran.

If you ask not to play, most Thai respect that.

Speaking a little basic Thai, and my Thai, despite my time here is very basic, does help.

The 'logic' of your home country may not apply in Thailand.

Sometimes to your betterment, sometimes to your detriment.

Though, I will admit, unless you have a Thai Partner, or speak Thai, it is quite daunting to try and celebrate with the Thais.

You could start by going at the beginning of the Festival to visit your local Wat (Temple) and you will see the deep respect that the Festival garners.

I've been here for lots of Songkran, and whilst some people do indeed refrain from throwing water all over you if asked, there are a lot that don't. Enough to make me want to stay at home for the whole festival. Waking around drenched just because some cretin wants to score a hit on me, when I just want to be left alone, is no fun at all.

Songkran used to be a charming affair, so we've all heard, but these days it's nothing short of an insane and often aggressive water fight.

A bit like Christmas used to be a charming affair, but now it is a commercial nightmare.

Call me a humbug

I would certainly give Myanmar a miss if you want to avoid getting wet. I can honestly say that I have not seen any craziness in Thailand as bad as what happens in Yangon and Mandalay. It is not far short of a war zone! All the police and troops disappear for 3 days and the people go wild.

On second thoughts I recommend you go and enjoy the experience of a lifetime.

Meanwhile in boring Cambodia, the Buddhist New Year is a traditional family affair. No street celebrations that I have ever seen. But don't get confused with the Phnom Penh Water festival which occurs in November when the river flow changes direction. I believe that can be quite wet.

I am actually off to Darwin for a week.

Thanks for the info, and crossing Myanmar off my list.

Looks like a choice between Cambo, Malaysia and Singapore.

Last year I fled to Georgetown, Penang and was able to stay dry.

Now there's an idea - I haven't been to Penang for a long time. Laid back, and a great place for food, as I remember.

What about Cambo or Myanmar? Does the insanity happen there too?

So let us place this into perspective:

Only 100 persons of each nationality is awarded permanent residence that rather turns this into a very expensive lottery, the chances are extremely slim.

If awarded a permanent residence the total cost will be 200000 baht. Now, considering that extending our visas each year costs 1900 baht, that means obtaining a PR is equivalent to105 years of annual 1900 baht regular visa extensions. Plus taking into consideration that all this will mean is that there is no need to have certain monies saved in a Thai bank every year and not having to visit Immigration once a year and that`s about it. Nothing else would change, most of the rules that are in force for those on non Immigrant visa will still apply, including the 90 day day reports and other limitations that affect ex-pats living in Thailand.

If for a total of 200000 baht obtaining a PR was guaranteed providing the applicants met all the criteria, then I would have no hesitation going for it, but considering it`s a 7600 baht lottery ticket with odds that are probably 1000s to one, than no way. It`s simply not a good deal and not worth the gamble.

I think that Chinese, Indians and the like, where there is a large resident population, may indeed max out their quotas, but the chances are not as slim as you think if you come from a western country.

When I applied, I was told that I was the 17th applicant that year for my nationality (British).

Already said so in the Camerata thread, but thanks for this very positive news Arkady!

I have to admit I felt pretty negative about the current regime when the 2nd half of Dec came and went without even a peep from anyone about this.

My friend that has his application prepared mentioned to me that CW told him there was a possibility that they would open for applications late but I was pretty sceptical about that.

This is a first is it not?

It's the first time I am aware that applications for a year's quota have been accepted in January of the following year but at least this avoids the clash with year end holidays. Going back to the 80s or so they used to issue the quota as early as March which meant that the window of applications was about 8 months, compared the two weeks that has become the norm for unknown reasons.

I still have some faith that the current minister is trying to introduce greater transparency and fairness into the process. He has clearly made strides in this direction regarding citizenship approvals, having approved unprecedented numbers in his first 3 months in office along with thinly veiled criticism about undue delays that left applicants in uncertainty about their status for years and corruption in the system. PR applications go through the same part of the Interior Ministry and it would be consistent, if he lit a rocket under that process too and it would improve the government's image vis a vis foreign investors.

In the latter half of the 90s, when I applied, Immigration was virtually able to guarantee a reply within 12 months but the process was disrupted when Purachai became IM under Thaksin and knocked back entire batches of PR and citizenship applications as "unworthy" and accused police of corruption in screening them. There is no reason why PR applications should take 5-7 years to approve and most of the steps take place quite promptly leaving the applications waiting for the minister's signature for years.

I also applied in the late 90's and thought that the process was fairly transparent. Being the festive season, I thanked the (very nice and polite) officer who processed my accepted my application by leaving a bottle of Johnny Walker Swing next to his desk, and in doing so I asked him what my chances of getting my PR approved were. He smiled, and said "around 90 percent". I was called back the following March for my fingerprinting and interview, which was a rubber stamp job - no interview at all. I got my PR around 6 months after that.

That said, the wording of the criteria for approval (from the translation above) still seems to leave room for discretionary process:

"To grant approval for the residence permit application, the Immigration Commission will take into its consideration the applicants’qualifications in terms of the understanding of Thai language, and personality".

Hmmm. How do they define and quantify "personality", I wonder? Are they just talking about whether the applicant has a criminal record (like the Character Test that is part of applying for Australian PR), or are they talking about how much 'merit' they subjectively believe that the applicant has, i.e., how much they like you?

So choose your partner wisely!

Its not cheap, but the benefits outweigh the cost. Once here she can work, Medicare, every benefit of being an Aussie.

I'd have paid 20grand any day to have my wife live here, and now with our daughter, it's priceless.

We are both 40 and together saving for a future and hopefully end up back in Thailand living on soi easy.

In the scheme of things, the 6 grand is not a lot imo.

Agreed. The benefits still far outweigh the costs. And in addition to the benefits you listed, the wife also gets 500 hours or so of free English lessons.

Now that the wife has an Aussie passport, no need to spend time and money getting her visas for visits to most other countries too.

Pick carefully.

So they should just charge the citizens of non-english speaking countries more. I can't see the justification in the 50% rise considering they already increase the fees every single year anyway.

And "benefits outweigh the costs"? So you think it's legitimate to immigrate to receive benefits do you?

I think that you may have misunderstood me. New migrants to Oz are not entitled to receive welfare benefits for two years. Even after two tears, neither the wife nor I ever claimed social security. Indeed, I paid a great deal out in tax.

You may wish to note that the word 'benefits' does not only include social security payments - the benefits I was alluding to are having your wife living with you, getting her an Oz passport, having the peace of mind that she has Medicare coverage, enjoying the same civil rights as the locals, and even English lessons to help her fit in to her new home. Stuff like that.

There's no visa fee differentiation between English speaking and non-English speaking visa applicants as yet, so they all pay the same. You are asking for justification, but we are dealing with the government here so there isn't any - partners trying to import spouses are in a very small minority, hardly likely to sway any election result, and there's nowhere else to go if you don't like it. The government really couldn't care less, so they can double the fee knowing that there will be no consequences. Unfair yes, but there you go.

I'm planning to avoid Thailand during that vile week of madness that is otherwise known as Songkran.

I know that they throw water at passers by in Laos. Is there any peace to be found in Myanmar or Cambodia?

I'd be pissed if this came to pass and had bought a TE visa.

Yes, exactly. If you could do back-to-back one-year 3000 baht "multiple visas" then what's the point of the TE? Surely the priority handling at Swampy and limo rides thru Bangkok won't make up the difference.

If true, this seems to be aimed at frequent visitors rather than your average package tourist or wannabe resident.

Whether this equates in any way to TE depends on being able to spend the whole year here without having to leave; or, whether this proposed change is simply an extension to the existing tenability dates and introduction of multi entry, with the same limits each entry to, say, 60 or 90 days like a current tourist or non-imm visa does.

Don't forget about the TE luggage tags either. Not having them makes me insanely jealous.

So choose your partner wisely!

Its not cheap, but the benefits outweigh the cost. Once here she can work, Medicare, every benefit of being an Aussie.

I'd have paid 20grand any day to have my wife live here, and now with our daughter, it's priceless.

We are both 40 and together saving for a future and hopefully end up back in Thailand living on soi easy.

In the scheme of things, the 6 grand is not a lot imo.

Agreed. The benefits still far outweigh the costs. And in addition to the benefits you listed, the wife also gets 500 hours or so of free English lessons.

Now that the wife has an Aussie passport, no need to spend time and money getting her visas for visits to most other countries too.

Pick carefully.

IMHO, it is a waste of money if you are married to a Thai and working. Much better to go straight for Citizenship.

No. It's only better if you want citizenship. If you don't then PR is better.

Unless you are from a country that forbids dual nationality, there really is no downside to having Thai citizenship. It allows you to completely disappear into the Thai system, affording you all the ownership and working rights of a Thai, and it also allows you to leave Thailand and come back again years later without having to get new entry permits on your PR. When people try to discriminate against you, it let's you say things like "I'm Thai, just like you" and "Our King approved my Thai nationality, so who are you to argue with that?"

If you live in Thailand, citizenship removes entirely all the bureaucratic obstacles and other irritations that foreigners face.

Having been a PR in Thailand before I was a citizen, there's not a single (valid) reason I can think of why PR is better, or why anyone would want to forego the rights of full citizenship in their place of residence and adopted home.

The problem for me is that all the small gyms seem to be disappearing and are getting replaced by large franchises like Fitness First. Small gyms are better, as they are usually run by a real enthusiast, who mentors members in a much more convincing way than all the 'Trainers' at the large franchises.

The large franchises seem to oversell memberships so that they are packed out in the early evening when I want to go. I also find their hard selling tactics downright offensive.

Of course, all these reasons sound like mere excuses and rationalisattion as to why I have stopped going to the gym and recently cancelled my Fitness First membership.

Perhaps I should have got up earlier in the morning, and continued going to FF, but I resent paying for crap FF service and queuing to use their equipment at the time that was most convenient for me.

I should buy some weights and a rowing machine and train at home, I guess.

In the Citizenshiip thread, it's said that we need the PR prior applying to citiizenship, at least for men (seems like woman married to thai national can go straight to citizen application.)

But in the current thread, which it's more recent, I could read several times that anyone already married to a thai national (and of course with the salary/years requirements) could apply directly to the ciitzenship.

PR makes points in the score system, but is not needed for Thai citizenship.

PR was needed to apply for Thai citizenship when I applied. I understand that they hey have since rescinded this requirement if married to a Thai.

Thanks DBrenn.

You say you understand, or you haven't been informed that they would have amended it ?

I can't find the info anywhere, I guess better to ask them.

By 'understand' I mean that the official requirements have changed as Ubonjoe says, but I'm not aware of anyone who has successfully applied for, and subsequently granted citizenship, without PR. The citizenship process is more discretionary than PR, and applications that are seen as lacking in merit may end up in limbo, regardless of what the rules say. If this route to citizenship with no PR is indeed open to men married to Thais, then it would make the whole process easier and cheaper for a lot of people here.

Others on the forum who have applied more recently and had their citizenship granted under this rule may be able to add to this.

For me it was the security element and being able to take time between jobs, as someone mentioned earlier the current side effect in the long approval times is that many people are getting this (perhaps to a slightly lesser extent) without the significant PR fee being payed.

I suspect it is also serves as an early retirement option though again I am not sure that was it's intent.

When I had my PR granted, it was a relief not to have to think any more about yearly visas and rule changes.

PR is a written promise from the Thai government to let you stay here for ever, regardless of whether you stay employed or stay married. A visa is a promise only to let you stay here for one year, and the rules change frequently, meaning that you can never really feel settled here while on visas.

Whilst not impossible, it's highly unlikely that the Thai government would ever make rule changes that affect the rights of existing PR holders to stay in Thailand - there have never been any such suggestions that I am aware of.