Paagai

Not that I'm a fan of Superbowl, but The Pub on Huay Kaew Road Opposite Maya always has a good crowd in and quite an atmosphere.

On 12/25/2017 at 4:56 PM, The manic said:

If a urine sample cannot or will not be given  blood test is the next option. All over the world including Thailand. Otherwise all people would claim they could not 'go'

Not strictly true. Might apply elsewhere when testing for alcohol intoxication, e.g. if you contest a breath test, but here the primary drug of interest is Yaa Baa.  Methamphetamine and its metabolite (amphetamine) are largely excreted in urine.  Something like 40% of the drug is not absorbed and passes straight through the body so is easily detected.  Metabolites can be detected in urine for 5 days to a week or more whereas they can only be detected for a day or so after use in blood tests.  If you don't believe Me Google is your friend.

If it was easy to demand a blood test in stead of urine test every yaa baa head in town would be doing so as, depending on when the drug was last used, the risk of testing positive is much lower.

Factors affecting the decrease in gay bars are not specific to Chiang Mai.  It's the same in many western countries.  There have been big changes in the acceptance of gay people and how they communicate in the last three decades.  As gays became more comfortable coming out, the bars boomed.  Perhaps the boom was around 2005-2010; since then the internet has replaced bars as places for gays to "hook up" and bars have gone into decline.  Especially with younger gays who came out in their teens and are comfortable socialising in straight bars with friends gay and straight.  In fact many avoid the gay ghetto totally.  This is exactly what has been seen e.g. in the UK and some European countries.

In Chiang Mai the prostitution factor makes matters worse.  Younger foreign gay visitors want nothing to do with  gay places here where elderly farangs and prostitutes congregate.  You'll much more likely find them at Zoe or the bars of Nimman.  Conversely, prostitution has become much less acceptable in Thai culture as people become more affluent, so money boys look for tricks online rather than risk being seen in a bar and labelled a prostitute.  Chaing Mai's gay bars are now mainly a social scene for older foreigners.

But none of this is really relevant to the topic since the child sex scene that was prevalent twenty years ago in Chiang Mai gay bars has moved entirely to other spaces.

23 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

I think the real purpose of this foundation is to give a few farang people a nice easy life in Thailand, paid for by donations from misled people.  They are also likely a Christian organisation with the real mission to convert 'rescued' Thai boys to Christianity, which is probably more damaging to the boys, Thai culture and society than some teenager hookers making money form some gullible old farang men. 

 

 

The Urban Light website used to clearly state they were a faith based organisation, as do references to them elsewhere, e.g. in City Life.  Now all references to faith and religion have disappeared from their site.  That alone raises suspicions about real agendas and motives, since I doubt the people involved have all suddenly converted to atheism.

I understand many of the boys rescued are Akha [Aside: it would be quite difficult to provide the kind of support Urban Light do to a mixture of different tribal groups in the same space; they just don't mix or integrate.  Indeed, at the old night bazaar gay bars, gang fights along tribal lines were not uncommon].  This is another ironical aspect given the damage (including child abuse) done to the Akha tribe and its villages by Christian Missionaries in previous decades.  Don't take my word for it, Google:  "akha missionaries abuse" and plenty of information comes up.  Is it now a case of the Christians rescuing boys from the christians?

Does it still go on? I don't believe there are any gay bars frequented by westerners in Chiang Mai where you can pick up young boys.  At worst there may be some freelance prostitutes who claim to be a couple of years older than they really are, but that is about it.  Most of the boys in the business are so old now they are usually claiming t be quite a few years younger than they really are LOL.

However, I suspect there are still places around town where younger boys (or their pimps) hang out.  In two more recent pedo busts in CM, (Klaus Hicker, I mentioned in previous post and Thomas Gary https://www.reuters.com/article/us-thailand-paedophile/thai-police-arrest-man-for-procuring-boys-for-suspected-american-pedophile-idUSKBN0KI16420150109 the underwear fetisher),  a third party procured underage boys and brought them to the offenders homes.  Boys came from typicaly round the Muang Mai market and along the river or internet cafes.  Since both the supply and demand exists I'm sure a lot still goes on, just not visibly in places westerners can visit (what may go on in some of the Thai only places out in the suburbs is anyone's guess as a foreigner would never get past the front door).

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

A friend used to have a bar, behind D2, he was in business at the time it was built, the bars behind his were nasty. The same cop, if that's what he was (green uniform) used to patrol every evening, an older guy, he knew exactly what was going on and where. 

Not cop, Army - believe they have a connection to the land the bars were built on.   Nuff said.

If you think those bars were bad, what went on in the old "Snake Pit" (under the Night Bazaar) in the pre Purachi era was much worse (Read this book if you want the gory details: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Love-Time-Money-Affiliations-Chiangmai/dp/3838306201/).  The Peak closed in 2009, the other bars were in terminal decline, especially after a customer was murdered by some boys he'd met there. Last ones closed in 2014 I believe.

Al Jazeera seem to have been "sold a pup" with this story.  Sure Urban Light do some good work and provide a much needed service for which they should be congratulated.   But this was just sensationalised crap targeted at their fund raising base in the US.  Seems the jurno forgot to mention they are a "faith based" organisation.  Content like "sex-trafficking", "rescued" and "Western men sitting in bars with 14-year-old boys on their laps" designed to appeal directly to Christian fundamentalists with anti-gay sentiments. 

There is a lot wrong in the more sleazy side of life in Chiang Mai.  Properly researched and approached from the right angle this could have been a valuable article.  Just the fact "drug" was mentioned only once in passing proves the major lack of comprehension of the situation.  A missed opportunity hyping a view of Chiang Mai that is several years out of date.  I'm sure lots of nasty stuff still goes on, but the internet has taken much of it off the streets.

It's ironic that their success story involves a bar boy turned tuk-tuk driver, who I'm sure is a great guy and deserves good things and some reqard in life.  In one of the more recent big pedo busts in Chiang Mai the bar boy turned tuk tuk guy was the villain:  http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news-archive/german-arrested-in-connection-with-luring-young-boys-back-to-his-house-for-sexual-services/

Not sure why anyone would stay at the Gateway?  It does have some nice views from the top floors (and Holywood downstairs   ), but otherwise is well past its expiry date.  Survives as it's the place where all the government type people stay on expenses.  Of course, Gateway is luxury compared with northern lake hotel.

Phutong place round the corner (next to M2 mentioned above) is a better bet.  Not to be confused with the new hotel on the lake (also mentioned above) which is Phuglong http://www.phuglong.com/ .   A budget option would be Thantong, don;t know there monthly rates though. 

There are quite a few farangs teaching at Anubarn School in the centre (nr Gateway) who stay in cheaper room type places around there.  Might be an idea to spend a few nights there and hook up with some of them for more info.  Those type of places you need to know and walk in.  You won't find them on the internet.  WIn hotel also looks like a a monthly rental type of place.

Not sure why anyone would stay at the Gateway?  It does have some nice views from the top floors (and Holywood downstairs   ), but otherwise is well past its expiry date.  Survives as it's the place where all the government type people stay on expenses.  Of course, Gateway is luxury compared with northern lake hotel.

Phutong place round the corner (next to M2 mentioned above) is a better bet.  Not to be confused with the new hotel on the lake (also mentioned above) which is Phuglong http://www.phuglong.com/ .   A budget option would be Thantong, don;t know there monthly rates though. 

There are quite a few farangs teaching at Anubarn School in the centre (nr Gateway) who stay in cheaper room type places around there.  Might be an idea to spend a few nights there and hook up with some of them for more info.  Those type of places you need to know and walk in.  You won't find them on the internet.  WIn hotel also looks like a a monthly rental type of place.

I tend to agree with what the OP says, though my experiences and lifestyle from back in 2000 were perhaps different to the OP.  Back then Chiang Mai had something a bit special and magical; it was different to many other places.  Now it is becoming just another city and has lost the edginess that made it attractive.  Traffic and construction mayhem have done the rest.   And, it seems, the goose that laid the golden eggs has been slaughtered and is now only served up in restaurants for chinese tour groups.

But, for now all is not lost.  Still a few smaller towns in Northern Thailand that retain something unique and attractive about them, with something of that frontier feeling Chiang Mai used to have.  Maybe not for too long though.

Of course, it didn't have to be this way. Just take a look at how Luang Prabang has been preserved as a model for how things could have been.

Towel Wars:

Hong Kong places two stamps in your passport. One an arrival stamp. The second explaining you may not seek work during the 180 days you are in the country. Hong Kong also requires a full blank page before entering the country. (I have an older passport full of Hong Kong stamps to show you if you like). You will find this is the case pretty much everywhere and you will then be stranded in no man's land having left Thailand but denied entry to almost all other countries. Be very careful here - most of the advice above is abysmal and doesn't consider immigration rules. (BTW if you're not a UK citizen you are required to have 2 blank pages which must be on two opposite pages of your passport to enter the UK - lots of people get deported at their own expense each year for ****ing that up too).

Well, since you mentioned abysmal advice........Yours is out of date. Since December Hong Kong no longer stamps your passport - in or out. They give you a small printed slip of paper with your name, date permitted to stay and passport no. Very simple. Dunno if you can still renew British passport there though.

For me, Chiang Mai has certainly lost that edge that it had 5-10 years ago.

Head North or East, Fang, around Chiang Rai, Phrae, Nan, Chiang Kham, Phayao. All places that still have a little bit of that magic Chiang Mai has lost.

Since the thread got bumped, a question. What has happened to the OP Beetlejuice? Or did I miss something?

A year or so back a Thai friend got a no helmet fine at Khawangsing by post. I saw the photo; its definitely happening.

Would have been a great plan.... two years ago.

Go to changphuak soi 4 you may find some Shot

Or get shot if you walk in the wrong door.....

The British rule of waiting until the sun goes down seems to rule Asia

I must have been applying the wrong rule all these years then: first tipple after the sun is over the yardarm.

The people are less materialistic but changing

In the last ten years, materialism has changed Chiang Mai from a provincial town to a developing nightmare. I hope Fang survives as is for a few more years.

One comment about Santitham prices as things have changed a lot. A few years ago 2-2.5K Bt would get you a not bad A/C room, but the massive building spree has forced prices up. Thais love new places, so every time a new condo/dorm block opens there is a flood of people wanting to move there forcing up prices. Then, Thai style, the older places put their prices up too and it would seem there is demand to justify it. Now newish regular A/C rooms are more like 3K or more (price for Thais).

Santitham is still a good place to live, though it used to be a lot better. Infrastructure (power, water and roads in particular) have not kept place with the number of people. It's also worth remembering that these condos/dorm blocks are a favorite method of money laundering. Those with clean money are more likely to build shop houses to sell for the quick profit.

Rat poison is available at many mom and pop stores and seems surprisingly effective, even on rats the size of a dog

. My maid has it down to a fine art, mixing the poison with minced raw chicken works well; dead rats everywhere.

The question is do you know where the rats will go to die, and have you smelt a dead rat, or rats (especially those the size of dogs....) You may find it easier to live with the rats rather than the smell

There are a number of "burger vans" or trucks on the scene now. They all seem to be doing a roaring business.

According to that ultra reliable source of information, Trip Adviser, the "Burgerholic" van is now the second best restaurant in Chiang Mai! Second only to DK David's Kitchen.

Given the diversity of opinions whenever burgers are discussed here on TV seems strange that all of their 32 reviews are very good or excellent. Apparently, nothing bad is to be said about it. Or perhaps TV's culinary critiques just haven't got around to it yet Will have to check it out!

I've always enjoyed trips to Fang and had some good nights out there over the years. The experiences have been more entertaining than many have suggested here. O.K. its a small town, but enough restaurants, bars and clubs to be enjoyable. Very local of course, if you go with expectations of a Farang/Tourist scene I guess you would be disappointed. I've also had the benefit of local friends to take us around.

Last couple of visits have stayed at the Khunyuu place hotel, clean modern, functional and not expensive. It's located behind the market/Bus station (on the right just after the hospital when coming from south)

I think this thread should be deleted before too many people realize that Phayao really is a pretty good place to live.

Committing a crime out of recklessness after drinking alcohol covers a lot of activities.

Indeed, and I have a little inkling the report is somewhat coy about what those activities might have been

Normally, straight people don't spend their time looking for bar and restaurant recommendations on gay websites.

Agreed, but they wouldn't have to. I said a quick Google search for "Pern's restaurant" will provide you that information, its not some kind of secret.

Do you, Paagai, really think that a restaurant being "gay owned" is relevant for some purpose?

Nope, absolutely not, but it seems others do I was merely replying to the comment about the gay clientele made by another poster as I have many gay friends who go to Pern's.

I second the recommendation of North Wheels, have used them many times, great service and value for money. Some of the vehicles are a bit older, but unlike some unscrupulous places in town, they don't try and scam you for any tiny scratches in the paint - most have too many to count already!

Agree with many suggestions here, especially Fang, Doi Angkhan and Mae Salong, all are good places to spend a night and Fang can be quite lively. The road between Fang and Mae Suai is an interesting route too with some spectacular scenery.

Another alternative route to Chiang Rai is via Phayao. The 120 from Mae Khachan over the mountains is a good road and beautiful. Phayao is very much an up and coming place but relatively free from foreign tourists. Lots of places to eat along the lake side and a good place to stay overnight too with a few live music bars and Pubs for entertainment. Phayao is about 2.5 hours from Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai is then an easy 1.5 hour drive straight up highway 1..