raybingham

Corkman,

Your posts are what this forum should be about. Someone expressing their view, or seeking advice, in a balanced and considered manner.

Everyone's situation is different but your experiences are something that we can all relate to. It comes down to going in with your eyes open, understanding what is expected of you and then responding in the way that is right for YOU.

I get enormous pleasure from giving Mama 3,000 Baht when I leave after one of my visits to the family home. I also give 2,000 to eldest sister who manages to family budget. It is not expected of me, I want to do it out of respect and support for the family and the payback (in terms of hospitality etc) is immeasurable.

Equally, I have declined a request from my G/F for 1,000 Bt to send home when I was certain she had more than enough cash to pay this herself.

Your words made me question why I "bragged", in the early days of my relationship, about income/assets. I guess I was trying to establish my status or value to someone 20 years younger than me ! The smart people keep their mouth shut, don't stay in 5 star hotels, don't tip excessively and don't spend like a holiday tourist if are a regular visitor.

Beware the last day of the month - I am sure the boys in brown hold their party that night and you can guarantee to see a 100% increase in spot checks.

I have had 3 speeding fines ranging from 200 to 400 Baht - bang to rights on all 3 occasions 120 to 130 kph. Annoying that these were always on a virtually empty road almost as big as the M25. But I WAS in the wrong.

200 Baht for no helmet on a bike is fair.

I took exception to the 200 fine for not having documents when driving a rented car. We phoned the renter and he said he was advised by the police not to leave docs in the car ! That one was unfair but G/F said don't take it personally - it is not persecution of Farangs, the Thais get stopped as well. She had already paid so I could not do the Farang strop.

Also got a 400 fine for not having an International Driving License. I forecefully pointed out that I had driven all over the world on my licence. They even offered to take me to the police station to show me an IDL. Convinced that they were wrong I phoned a friend's brother who is a senior officer in the Isaan police force. I was quickly and courteously waved on.

Only later did I realise that I was totally wrong and only had a Euro licence !

In today's lesson we will....

yawwwwwnnnnn...

Come on, come on !

I can't be the only one waiting with baited-breath for Bingo Bongo's next lesson

So let me get this right Corkman, you don't pay a little money on there terms, but you pay a crap load on "your" terms I am sure the family is terribly upset with you, good on you for standing up for yourself.

I supposed I came off that way alright - but in real terms, my understanding is that a typical "payment" which most subscribe to on a monthly basis is about 5,000 - 10,000 baht......... which is madness in my view, but hey....... that amounts to anywhere from 60,000 baht a year. And most of these guys get the "sick buffaloe" routine...... When I add it up in my head properly, I suppose I personally contribute about 50,000baht a year - max - including the "going home" money.

But to me, its not about the actual amount, but rather the demanding attitude that would get to me - I'm just stubborn - but if its put to me "you MUST pay x this month, and every month" - well I just don't like being told what to do. I much prefer the idea that I give what I can, when I can - I don't see it as a duty but rather a pleasure to help. In fairness to my wife, she is part of a partnership called marriage - if we propser (as in my wife and I) then of course she would like to bring her family up with her - I know I would - I know if I won the lottery or suddenly became a millionaire that I would help out my close family, and treat them to things, and try to make their life easier - in what ever way I can. So why shoudl it be any different going in the Thai direction - a knife cuts both ways as far as I'm concerned.

But I do things on my terms my terms. When you go to the bank for a loan, you do it on their terms. When you go to work, you do it on their terms. When you want or need something, typically you do it on other peoples terms. Conversely, if people want things from me, I do it on mine. There are lots of Farangs out there that really are taunted as "bufallo" behind their back - without ever knowing..... maybe I am one two, I dunno. But I am not trying to upset anyone, or stamp my authority, or be a hard man standing up or whatever - my motives for wanting to do things my own way are to make my Thai family "terribly upset" with me - what would the point in that be? The point that I have sucessfully made with my Thai family is that I AM NOT THAI. I do not have to do things "because it is the Thai Way". My wife doesn't give half her wages to my mother does she? Its is a case, in most cases, of hunting with the hound and running with the fox. Farang money - Thai culture...... I am afraid for me, I am not willing to give up who I am, what I stand for, what my parents worked so hard to teach me - that is me, who I am, and what I am....... part of that "upbrigning" was to recognise the need for compromise and fairness - what I have, I feel, is a fair compromise between helping out without breaking my own back, doing my bit which keeps my wife happy, and saving face by not lying down and taking it - appearing as a "golden goose".

I have to say that I agree with a lot of what Corkman says - although I think some of his comments can be viewed as having a degree of arrogance. I doubt that was the intention.

The reality is that, usually, we all do what we want to do or are prepared to do. The Thai principle of nam jai is commendable (and very rewarding when you do it for a genuine reason) - that is "giving" willingly and voluntarily. However, we should also be prepared to say "no" if we feel that it is simply a case of "Farang pays".

I believe that "we" have to give more in the compromise stakes because we have chosen to spend time in their country and the Thai culture should prevail. Equally, just because the Thais eat chicken bones doesn't make it right !

The 40k crisis is genuine and the money will stop it happening again.. I have held a very hard line on family contribs with my current girl as the wife before had the family from hel_l, but I found her after a phone call sobbing alone, unable to drum the money up herself and too scared of my reactions to pressure me over it.. Well I am not going to have her sobbing in a mixed up head state like that when it can be solved for 40k !! I pay 1k GBP to my own mum each month for years, and buy myself toys and motorbikes etc, I would be a pretty heartless bastard not to solve this.

I will find out today what kind of sor por kor it is.. But I was under the idea sor por kor couldnt be sold, that it was a license to utilize but not to own, but I also know that up there much of the land is sor por kor and its constantly horse traded. They claim that it can have her name made onto the sor por kor in an official way (not just witnessed by the kamnaan etc) so I will check that out.

The money is not the main issue.. My main concern is does the extra 60k get her a legal title to land ?? And what if any risks does she have to lose that land ??

I am not sure the legalities matter.

As a family transfer you are probably as safe as you can get and you are satisfied about the 40k crisis.

To sort out the legal side it may be worth asking Isaan Lawyers.

How bad are sor por kor titles in baan nok for a Thai ??

My GF has just got an SOS call from her folks.. In 4 years I have given them nothing, she doesnt send money home and I have been lucky in not having a adopted family drain.. Now they have a legit SOS and I am going to white knight it, one way or other, simply because I can and it will make my GF happy..

However they are offering 10 rai of sor por kor regged land for 100k baht.. To be fair they are not being the usual 'give me' and it sounds like a fair offer.

I can either just give (they will call it a loan but lets be realistic) 40k or so to solve a big problem they have, or I can give 100k baht and my GF gets 10 rai of sor por kor...

For myself, here on phuket I wouldnt touch sor por kor with a bargepole.. But this isnt phuket its baan nok.. It isnt for me, it would be something my GF owns (which after this many years she doesnt have squat, so I am a bit behind on the upkeep) and it has the secondary issue that I show money gets something, theres no gravy train implication. They even say that the land will be rented back from her for them to use (I dont believe but its a nice idea)..

One side of me says pay the minimum you can to solve everyones problems but another says getting something for the money is better. My unknown is how bad sor por kor really is..

If its family owned, family worked, with a family shack on it.. Is she likely to lose it ??

They claim the land can be put in her name for a couple 1000 baht.. Is that really in her name (regged on a land title) or what is this ?? My info is sor por kor is more a 'right to use' not an ownership.

I have no issue at all about it being hers, I certainly want nothing to do with the area or the land, just dont know the risks of ownership for her and if I should just avoid the idea all together and just help out.

It's a £1,600 birthday present which equates to £400 per year of your relationship or £7.69 per week (probably less if we average the exchange rate over that period !).

The fact that you have no interest in the land but can give huge face to your G/F and her family - just do it. IF THE MONEY IS COMING OUT OF THE "I DON'T NEED THIS" BANK ACCOUNT.

I agree that the transaction within the family is less likely to result in any problem.

You didn't mention where the 40k crisis came from - obviously wouldn't want to see a repetition of that.

There are army golf courses at quite a few major towns or army camps in Issan. Most of these tend to be 9 hole courses - some with two sets of tees to make an option of going round twice and playing 18 holes.

Near myself there are 3 courses within a short drive, Buriram, Surin and an army camp near Panom Rung. In my opinion the Buriram course is the more interesting of the three.

You are welcome to play any of the army courses and some offer an annual membership.

You can also hire clubs at these courses.

They are strict on their golf shoe requirements and although they may hire out shoes they tend not to have Farang Size!

Also I had to file down the spikes on a new pair of shoes I had played twice with in Scotland, as the spikes were too long for the greens here.

Is there any information/links/directions you can provide for course near Panom Rung - thanks.

"land prices in thailand are over priced..i can buy land in the usa alot cheaper and if i want to go in certain states maybe 400 dollars an acre..most is used for rice farming.."

You won't find land in the USA appropriate for rice farming for $400 USD an acre.

You could make it $4 an acre in USA and I still wouldn't go there.

I will continue to pay 80,000 Baht a rai if it is where I want it to be - i.e. in Thailand.

Didn't I see circa 105 rai for sale on the right hand side of the Prakhon Chai to Buriram road ?

Land is near a temple and has a narrow (22 metre) entrance before it widens out. The dirt track access road is adjacent to the temple and is owned by them.

From memory the price was in the order 37,000 baht per rai and was for sale by agents with 3 initials, starting with a "B" ? - sorry, I am back in the Uk now and forget all the details.

Ozzydom, that sounds super. I agree 100%. If you want to make money, you need to value ad to your product. Sounds like you got a good thing going there. Best of luck.

Anyone have access to 24,000 kilos of rice. I have someone in the UK who is looking to import a container load.

All IMO...

If there is any doubt in your mind, you shouldn't buy land in your wife's/husband's/gf's/bf's name.

If you don't have a home somewhere else in the world, you shouldn't buy it.

And finally, I think all foreigners should own at least one condo in their own them, that will never be in anyone else's name, not even jointly, before they consider buying up more property in someone else's name. Take care of that universal "shelter" need first.

Good advice (you do have some - sometimes - don't you? )

Thanks to all those who got me towards a usufruct agreement. I am now taking specific advice on this as it appears to pretty much achieve what I am looking for.

Thaigene2 - I wish you had made your third post first - it would have made us both look smarter.

Heng - don't worry I have 4 'shelters' in Europe that I can fall back on.

On a broader note, I really think it would be useful to have one pinned item on this subject. I have seen the inane questions asked by newcomers and many deserve the short-shrift they receive. However, in my case I was not looking for someone wipe my ar*e, I was more than happy to undertake hours of research - I just wanted a starting point.

It would really be helpful if someone has the time to post something that says e.g. Don't buy in Thailand if you don't have to, don't buy in Thailand if you want 100% security of tenure. However, if (after very careful consideration) you choose to buy and (bottom line) are prepared/able to lose that 'investment' then look for the following advice:-

I can do no better than quote the the 2 links from Marvo:-

http://www.samuiforsale.com

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t=0&start=0

In my case I have chosen to buy land in my G/f's name because I want a small lifestyle business to keep my grey matter occupied for part of the time I am in Thailand.

This will probably cost me 4 - 5 million baht over the next few years. If I live for another 25 years that equates to 200k p.a. and if my G/F is still with me at that time I would not begrudge her a satang of that money.

If it does not work out then the advice I have just received may help me to recover some of what I spend.

If not I will sell one of my UK 'shelters' and move on.

Thanks again

Thanks again

Well - since you've read in raybingham, what are else are you expecting to learn? Some new, golden nugget? I'm not being flippant to you. I've also considered this - so have many of us married to Thais - thus the many threads. What do you want from us (or if not me - from others?)

Thaigene2 - at least you read my question, unlike DragonQuest who seemed to want to give an answer to a totally different question.

Mine is not a difficult question:-

I am happy to buy some land for my G/F. The purchase falls comfortably within the parameters of "being prepared to lose what you spend in Thailand". Despite DragonQuest thinking that he knows more about my finances than I do, this purchase would do little more than dent my life's savings.

That said, whatever I choose to spend in Thailand has been relatively hard earned and if I can put some 'protection' in place then I would like to do so. Therefore, my question relates to mechanisms such as (a) leases, ( mortgages and © the use of Power of Attorney.

I am not looking for gift-wrapped response, I would just like someone to point me to somewhere on the forum where I can look for answers to a/b/c .

I have seen first hand the sort of situations that bring about the level of scepticism that is prevalent in the forum. However, I also see some comments from respected members who put some faith in the Thai legal system.

I am prepared (if necessary) to put my faith in that system, but it is no good doing that after the horse has bolted. As in any other country, appropriate documentation at the outset could help in the event of future difficulties.

PLEASE, PLEASE try and come up with something constructive. If everyone tells my that there is sweet FA I can do gain some 'legal right' then there must be hundreds of lawyers accross the country earning money under false pretences (apologies to the lawyers - used as an example only).

Yes right here. Don't do it.

Yep - that was about as constructive as many of your other posts I have seen.

Now, accepting that what you put into Thailand probably stays there, are there any more mature contributors than Thaigenie who have experience of my question.

Thanks again

Sorry to trouble you, I have looked for pinned items re land

purchase.

I am looking for the basic guidelines on protecting one's interests

when buying land in G/F's name.

I have read many horror stories and I have heard that the use of

leases/mortgages/power of attorney can all help in the event of future

problems.

Is there one reference point on the forum where I can find out more ?

Thanks.

I don't know if this is of any help to you but if you are a resident of the UK you could open up a flexi-account with the Nationwide Building Society. They issue you with an ATM card which you give to your wife and there are no fees for drawing money worldwide!

In support of Prodriver's comments, I have 2 Nationwide Flex accounts. One account I use to withdraw cash from ATMs when I am Thailand. The second account is used for my G/F to withdraw cash - I gave her the card and I fund her account from my own account via Internet banking i.e. I can put her in funds anytime of day from anywhere in the world.

On one occasion she needed 2,000 Baht urgently. I transferred £30 (better rate at that time !) from 1 a/c to 2 a/c and she took out the cash 10 minutes later in Buriram - bloody marvellous.

And the best thing is that withdrawals are completely free and last week when HSBC gave me 59.8 on an ATM withdrawal I was getting 62.5 from Nationwide.

I worked for HSBC for over 30 years but I cannot speak highly enough of Nationwide.

I need to transfer 2m Baht from UK and have tried to find a pinned entry for details of the limit I can transfer without risking bank controls. I recall that this amount was US$20,000 equivalent but I also thought this figure had been increased. I would like to avoid 3 SWIFT transfers if possible.

The transfer is for land purchase - any advice welcome, thank you

As one who can only spend half his time in Thailand I am a little concerned about the impact of the strength of the Baht on tourism.

One can argue that Thailand might be better off without a lot of it but then 90% of correspondents on this forum may not be here !

I agree that Thailand has the ability to withstand the financial armageddon scenario (because of it's largely subsistence economy). However, with tourism accounting for such a large proportion of GDP I can see a danger for the Thai middle classes - and many daughters of Isaan.

Too many tourists that I come across are only interested in the cheapness (sic) of LoS and if they feel that they are being "priced up" they could well turn to less developed countries.

Sounds good, let's hope that they can make it happen!

Why what is wrong with having two aiports?

Any chance of them increasing the number of Immigration Officers ?

(the ones in the Non-Thai passport area I mean )

It certainly sorts out the erectile dysfunction for me

Let's separate the issues for a moment: so it's socially unacceptable for people to smoke in the vicinity of non-smokers yet it's presumably socially acceptable (because there is no legislation against it) for banks, hedge funds and financial institutions to create debt/credit problems for consumers that cost them their homes and their livelihoods? That being true methinks the list of what is socially acceptable and what is not is highly subjective else needs much review.

Forgive me but I think you will find that the debt is created by the consumer if/when they choose to borrow beyond their means. In old parlance in the UK it was known as stealing (Theft Act 1968) if you took money without having the ability to repay - filling stations used to carry a sign saying only fill up if you are able to pay for your petrol.

Don't get me wrong - I used to be a bank manager - but the worst I/we did was to provide the loaded gun.

What I disagree with is the belief that in areas such as bars and restaurants only non-smokers should have freedom of choice.

Smokers have rights as well as non-smokers unfortunately the smoker's rights take away the non-smokers right to fresh, breathable air.

There's only one solutions isn't there - ban smoking.

Smokers have had it good for too long.

i'm with tropo, stiggy etc on this one.

I speak as a reformed smoker, having given up 3 years ago after 20+ years of 25 B & H a day. That is probably enough to ensure that my longevity is limited in some way. However, having been lucky to give up the habit (my hypnotherapist convinced me that it is not an addiction - you just have to finda way to break the habit).

One point has been missed so far - I would not have started smoking in 1973 if the UK had not been enshrined in a smoking culture, the Royal Navy were still issuing fags withtheir rum, you smoke in offices, buses, planes, underground etc, etc.

Break the culture and you will significantly reduce the exposure to (the glamour of) smoking. The only (best) way to achieve this a total ban in the aforementioed public areas. I would include open air or part open air venues because if you sit on the next table to the guy who lights up his Cuban phallic symbol your space will still be invaded by the obnoxious expunged waste.

I am not interested in "smokers rights". When I smoked I firmly believed that it was my choice whether I decided to pollute my lungs etc, etc I still share this view but no smoker has the right to pollute others. I am all for smokers areas and restaurants, entertainmentvenues should make such areas available away from the general public.

Unfair on smokers? Boll***s !

This preserves their 'right' to smoke whilst avoiding the imposition of passive smoking on others AND, most importantly, it starts to isolute smoking as a les than socially acceptable habit. Then, maybe then, the next generation or two can avoid falling into the smoking trap because peer group acceptance/pressure etc has been removed or reduced.

This is not a sermon it is just common bloody sense. If you can avoid smoking please do so.

No particular reason except that 30:1 is some sort of magic number that sets off bells and other alarms. The last time it got that low the government went into damage control. With the EC hard at work and the smell of a possible coup in the air........ who is driving? I imagine that has a bit to do with it.

I think I am still missing the point here. The strengthening of the Baht would, inter-alia, suggest that the international money markets see the election result as a stabilising factor (vis-a-vis economics). Personally, it is a bit of a bugger because I was getting over 71 baht to the Pound in November and now only 66. A 7% strengthening is pretty huge by currency exchange standards.

Perhaps the PPP conceded to the pre-conditions, because it seemed fairly certain that the Democrats would accept them.

Abhisit sees end to turmoil

Democrat Party Leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said yesterday the five preconditions for a coalition alliance were a good start to ending turmoil.

"I see the conditions in a positive light, as Chart Thai and Puea Pandin parties set out to make clear where they stand in resolving the country's problems," he said in reference to the two parties' pre-conditions to join the alliance formed by the People Power Party.

Abhisit said the Democrats would wait until next Friday before making its next move if the People Power Party failed to form the next government.

He said his party was ready to become the opposition. Democrat Secretary-General Suthep Thaugsuban anticipated People Power to conclude a coalition deal soon.

Negotiations could succeed because the demands were not unreasonable, he said, adding he did not expect a great number of disqualifications to drastically change the election outcome.

- The Nation

I am trying to follow all this from the UK and I am struggling with the response of the Democrats. At first I thought they were taking a watching brief, waiting for the PPP to cards to fall around their ears and step in as white knights to form the next government. This does not appear to be happening and PPPappear to be getting stronger (talking tougher) as time goes on.

Where do the Democrats stand ?

Balanced reporting from the BBC:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7162774.stm

maintain that, however you wish to disect the results, we have actually seen democracy in action.

I don't actually believe that most Thais really like Samak, do you?

Good God, no. But I think Isaan votes were cast for local people who "did good" in the image of Thaksin. Plus, I think they remember Thaksin/TRT/PPP more for the good that was done for the poor than for any of the corruption ("He was not 100% good but he did much good for the farmers").

Previous comments have covered the question of what the Democrats have to do to change this mindset. Otherwise, it seems that the North/North East - Bangkok - South divide will continue.