leoalex

in 2008 or 2009, right in the center of bkk, Silom road, some British guy stayed and asked for alms everybody. Him have seen me, and we have a small talk, it was a guy from manchester (by his words), how him tell some thai girl steal everything from him and him need some money. So, nothing new here. Just they go more deep, and now even showing themselves as deaf.

Fine by me as I do not intend to sue to get any money back as I have always viewed the program as a club offering privileges ( actually I still do not understand why they have never charged any fee, small participation, for all services, that is how it works in every club of the kind: it would like being member of a rotary like club, drinking and having food for free whereas we are supposed to be treated as VIP such as having special access, preferred seat, special attention and maybe a discount) That being said, I do not want to be held responsible for that policy especially that, as I am sure it is the case for a majority of us, I have used very little of it set aside the visa

What I deplore here is that there is nobody representing some/all members seating at the table , table setting the member's fate through an arbitrary dissolution

Right now we do not need noise but a commun agreement

I know you already have my contact so feel free to do so

exactly, alyx! we need now to do researches, consult lawyers about possibly steps (what we can do and possibly to get from it) and best way to do if it will required. consumer protection law can be tryout to see better to do it in thailand or not. and we need to get some kind of community agreement (not legal - but to know what the actions/expectations of most of members on this matter and who can join such legal action if it will required)- what the best things we can do together if will not satisfied with tpc final offer (in exact amounts, visa, etc).

How can they just offer a "refund" ???

Because of the ThaiElite Visa, I have developed real estate here,

which I now won't be able to enjoy and might have to sell at a loss.

Will they reimburse me the 30++MB I have invested here as well ?

I think the most important thing is to understand what they CAN offer

and what they can not.

- Do they have the power to offer a life time visa when they cancel the program ?

- Do they have the power to offer a Residency Permit ?

- Will they reimburse me for money I invested here in the hopes to be able to stay

in Thailand ?

I am with KoreaElte, we need legal action now. We should join together and bombard

the with law suites and threats ....

Cheers,

rudi

them not able to do such decisions, however them can forward it to peoples who able to make such decisions. It why we need to talk and write what we need visa and it can affect our positions on this matter if visa will grandfathered or switched to something similar (another type may be)

With regards to bankruptcy, it's possible here to do business with a firm, the firm goes bankrupt and you end up holding the baby, not recovering a single baht.

again very correct, we need to know what we have chances to win something or at least go futher negotiations with us.

But this case it clearly a special case. Political background. Close ties to govenrment. The overall intention of the programme, etc. I am pretty sure we can reach settlement out of court but I am worried that we have no way of demanding any visa if they fold. If they find a way, good. If not, there's no way we can sue for a visa and expect to win. We could sue for damages if our visa gets canceled however that too would be an uphill battle and we would need to think about that on a case by case basis.

If you have another way to get a different visa, you should try to recover your money and let it be IMHO.

check private forums for some current ideas.

Despite the concept of "Class action lawsuits" not being applicable in Thailand, there is clearly benefit in approaching them as a group (bring legal costs down, too I supposed because a lot of the paperwork would be a cut and paste job once the overall thing has been written up).

If anyone is interested in moving ahead now, perhaps we could all get together (get my / someone else's lawyers in as well) to discuss options and see if we have a congruent strategy. In my case, I cannot afford to sit on the fence any longer. This thing has beeen brewing for years and time is money. You got to get your claims into the system before it's all gone.

this thing also better to discuss in private place (and here already some ideas).

Well law suits and threats is not what I had in mind. In my experience here it doesn't work very well to go that "American Route". My legal action this week will consist of having briefed my lawyers and having them initiate contact, show that I'm serious about *negotiating*. Local quirks and customs aside, we couldn't sue yet anyway. As long as I get picked up by AoT, ushered through immigration, the Elite call center number is being answered and my visa is accepted for entry at the borders, I have nothing to sue them about.

You are correct, it exactly what we need - clear final answers from tpc about company closure. what will offered us or not. Only after it we can do something.

My goal is to stay ahead of the game and commence *negotiation* now. An actual lawsuit may never be necessary and even if we initiate one, chances are we will settle out of court.

yes, we need to do it now. and research the ways how we can do something if we will unhappy on final offer from tpc.

My regards once more to smallbear for bringing up the excellent point of consumer protection law.

this at least can give us idea what can expect from legal action at thailand. check temembers private forum - here some ideas on this matter (in th or not in th).

sorry forget to mention also thanks to small bear! good idea, at least we can try it to see what can happen if it will require legal action later.

KoreaElte : nice idea! as soon we will have official explanation on tpc closure we can try to go this way. not sure if it will work or not, but it a good way. but if it not will work we can go into more legal if will not agree with tpc offer.

PS : i never heard of such news/members. need to check google if we can find their names/contacts.

at temembers private members area was added some important information.

KoreaElte: but how private company can offer special type lifetime visa? and offer before right to land ownership? It a easy to see this connection.

anyway, is in thailand it was in news or not? such news in us/europe/asia can make investors/business owners worry.

if it was not in agreement which we have signed, it not matter.

looks like them don't know about visa. i got one answer, you got another, now also information what them don't know.

anyway, not a good news. it a classic ponzi scheme.

I just get answer from tpc.

1. now first stage gathering responses from current members which will submitted to Thai authorities for final decision. These responses can help them to make final decision (about refund amount?).

2. here no will any other compensations in form of limited privileges and services (even visa!!!) only refund.

3. tpc don't know what the amount of refund can be.

So now most of things become little-bit more clear. No visa after tpc closure. In this case we need to ask for maximum possibly refund sum. But even getting refund most of members will not feels good about closure at such way. (like getting a note - you can not be a friend of thailand anymore, get money and forget about friendship and your long term relations with this country, get tourist visas to come back again).

i can say what we just talking here. may be current visa will grandfathered (best option) - we still need to know it. but at least we need to talk here about all possible alternative offers (which can be free for them) but have value for us.

also may be it good idea to check google news about acquiring/gifts of elite memberships to recognize and contact other members.

starrdog : something tell me what we not get answer to this question. even if we get answer, it will not a good news. It why I looking into alternatives from start, which can be free for them but have price for us.

I agree with this up to a certain extent as other options do not appear to be viable. However, offering alternative visa's (citizenship etc) is passing the buck somewhat. I suspect that passing off the Visa to another party could result in a very easy 'walk away' down the line unless there is sufficient supporting documentation which I doubt would be readily forthcoming.

sure. citizenship (even with limitations as no voting/etc) is can be good and logical step to make Thailand Friends (as promoted at immigration desks everywhere in TH airports) even better friends and go away from 'refund scheme' which not suitable for gifts (somebody was gifted by this card) and from lot of discussions/money talks/news/etc. Also it way to end up this situation to both happiness and with good face & reputation even with closure of company.

What about permanent residency, just read immigration forum here at thaivisa - it much more complicated, here is lot of requirements & limits, papers, rules like you will lost residency automatically if you not in country for 1 year, need to extend it, etc.

i posted about current visa renewal on private section of temembers.

yes, looks like them have not so much money for all refunds - it why some alternative offers (which can be free for them) is also some thing we need to talk about.

I am also will not agree with company dissolution if them will cancel lifetime visa. If TE will offer us grandfathering of visa or offer us some alternative - it one thing. But if visa will just cancelled - it completely different thing and in such case I think we will need to react.

I think we need to know their offer to us (if refund - what the exact sum. If here will some continued lifetime benefits as visa or not. any other possibly offers, etc). This small survey not tell us anything really except what they planning to refund _something_ to us.

But of course we need to get into contact before will any final decisions will made. By this way we can combine our efforts.

Most funny what also some well-known usa/european politics and singers get elite card as gift. And I not have any idea how te will refund them and their reactions on this matter. But surely many unhappiness can happen if situation will go wrong way. I not speaking about reputation/face here, but about "not correct target group for experiments".

Mario2008 & Alyx : Every country have a note in laws what can grant it for own interests. So here is not need any new law.

It just a quick idea what can be acceptable offer for all members, just in this case all this story can be finished quickly without any courts/news noise/etc and with good faces for everybody involved, and with positive news in media worldwide plus better reputation in business.

But here can be any other offers of course.

yes, need to discuss this topic in private with other te members. at temembers dot com for example.

;-) may be will better offer than money, who know.

my opinion : if them decided to close program the best thing is giving out thai citizenship for existing members. This only way will make everybody happy and even all will have benefits from it.

other options can be like permanent residence (without per year time limitation) plus some refund can be discussable, but it will much more hard to reach agreement with everybody. If them not will provide visas (may be converted to something else, but lifetime) for current members - soon will many news.

so nationalistic posts at this topic. if you reading news here at thaivisa - you will see what crime not have nationality and every country have own morons, but some peoples here trying to judge all peoples from one country only based on nationality. God is your judge, good luck.

In this statement I believe they've transposed the subject and object, shouldn't it more accurately read;

Phuket Customs warns of Thai ladies cheating foreigners...

Foreigners, that covers a lot of Nationalities, there are some that could teach the Thai ladies a trick or two, were not all from Aus, USA. West Europe

i was very funny reading this about usa, aus, europe not cheat. just check your own mailbox, lot of uk lottery winning cheats, american cheats on any points, i myself was cheated by usa local company via internet - purchasing aviatickets (it was old website and I am not newbie in the net), and money for ticket go to usa bank to company account), my friend was cheated by netherland guy about check, etc.

so everywhere in the world have cheaters, but it not based on nationality. it just part of human nature of some peoples.

Any idea how Thai Elite members can keep in contact if shit hits the fan?

I for one enjoy the convenience and found the Elite Card as a way of not having to "cheat the system". I've seen how the visa policy have changed over the years and you might say the card was never 100% sure, but how about all the 30 day'ers if they should get even stricter on this policy... and why shouldn't they?

I don't stay here permanently but usually more than 30 days at the time, never have a return ticket when I arrive, do not work here, not married here, don't have time to apply for visa before arriving each time, in my 30's, don't travel 1st class, so there was several good reasons to become a member... free golf was never one of them... It was never meant as an investment either as many suggest... A one time payment for not having to worry about it, which I can't say they quite lived up to taking the past couple of years into consideration.

They could re-name it "Farang Kee Nok" and I would still want to be a member.

Even doing yearly O visas, for those eligible, there would be quite some cost over 30 years or so... and time is money... Orchard Road every year is too much for me...

sholaisen

This is really amazing. This should be about How Thai government is

going to handle this mess, but no, it seems to be mostly a envy driven

"i told you so" wise crack thread.

Why do people think that the Elita Card holders didn't assume they will

get screwed sooner or later ? Why do all the not haves think that the

Elita Card holders are stupid ?

Go back to the 50 baht value breakfast hunts, and don't worry about

other peoples financial situations. Even if they cancel the Elite Card

and I have to look for other ways to stay here, I got many many years

of painless immigration and no headaches of trying to cheat my way

through the Thai Legal system. I still have some years before I turn

50 and hope they will let us keep the visas instead of the refunds ...

Cheers,

rudi

Me too!!! I am under 50, and the card was one hassle free way to live here. I never used their spa/golf privileges and I do not consider myself "elite" although I do consider myself lucky enough to be able to afford the convenience. I hope they will retain the visa benefit, well at least till I turn 50 anyway. The money is not as important as the visa in my case. But the entire episode does leave a bitter taste in the mouth.

I know forum where near 20 elite members, temembers dot com. Most important to stay in contact now.

i mean same amount of peoples in immigration diplomatic pasport control (where elite members can come thru) as at common passport control queue.