leoalex

if them just refund money minus used services and leave 5 years visa - I will happy with it.

That guys who scream here 'less elite', 'welcome to immigration queue', etc - just prove own stupidity, elite it 'name of program and on card' - but no one from TE members have said what them 'elite'.

what about visa - we same as you, go visit immigration office like you, and usually in common queue to extend this elite visa for another 3 monthes. and also waiting in airport immigration queues, but in diplomatic. But you can believe me - last times when I have trip (2 times per year) - same amount of peoples in normal and in immigration queue. this 'special fast track' need to order 5 working days before what hard to do sometimes and not anyone need it.

te members will see what will happen soon, if here will no refund - it just can be group lawsuit or something like it. also i just can imagine fun when elite office will tell famous actor or politican who was gifted with this elite card - your elite gift card from us is not valid anymore.

i consider the "russification" of Pattaya as a positive factor for the indigenous Thais living here. the Russians seem to provide a perfect alternative and welcome diversion for frustrated Farangs to bitch about which gives Thais a (temporary) relief.

looks like money not have nationality :jap:

I don't think I ever said "English is universal" nor would I expect everyone to speak English. I did say something like if a Spaniard is trying to talk to a German in a third country, chances are they will be speaking in English (if they can). It would be much rarer if both could speak some Russian. That's just the way it is, and continues to be, and appears to be becoming more so, so DEAL WITH IT.

OK, so native English speakers are kind of lucky that way, we can travel to most countries in the world and be pretty sure we can get by at least for simple tourist things, so more of us feel comfortable traveling independently without tours. Pattaya has now become a place Russians without English can expect to navigate OK without speaking English or the native language. Certainly that isn't the case of much of the world. Thus, the topic here, Russification of Pattaya.

ok, but this is thailand forum. so we speaking not about how german and spanish peoples will talk together. funny, but it can be italian language, french or dutch, not only english. Just check statistics how many % of peoples learning in EU schools english language.

also here we speaking about russians, how you can see most of them not speaking english. So you can just accept it or not. but answer is only one - at least at pattaya here english is not so universal language. just because first here was english speaking peoples - most of locals learn english for their business. But time changing and some local business starting to learning also russian because huge % of peoples who don't know which language is universal and speaking their own language.

I think peoples here not have any right to speak about 'russians good or bad' or 'is good what russians in pattaya or not'.

most of peoples here is downshifters, it mean what you leave your homeland (very patriotic, haha) and selected another place to live. mostly because summer and girls. so moral is here - you cannot see your own wrong things, but like to judge another peoples and get only pleasures from life..

Bravo leoalex!

when the high and mighty Farangs are bored making derogatory statements about their host country Thailand and its indigenous population they focus on something else to bitch about. and those who (most probably) don't own a pot to piss in complain with obvious envy about people who buy "blocks of condos which are not rented out" as if it is any of their concern and top it with allegations such as "drug money"

it true, it really thing which i never understand in some westeners. Them was enough lucky to born in 'developed country' and get some money, but it is not give them any right to judge peoples who not such lucky as them.

2) Did you notice, that some of them actually try and talk to you.

LOL. Yes, quite a few Russians have tried to talk to me in Russian. They seemed surprised I didn't speak it.

I didn't know Russians read Thai Visa.

wow, lot of them here. but i think him mean 'talk with him locally'.

just for note - because of this topics at russian forums this forum often mentioned as xenofobic forum. Sorry to administration, but such topics is really aganist your own rules.

The current crop of Russian tourists may get Thailand businesses through a difficult period, and in that sense they are useful and helpful. But they do not help Pattaya (or Thailand more generally) to develop into a broadly accepted/desireable tourist destination. And the focus on Russian language is, in my view, a real and serious detriment to Thailand's tourist development in the long run. Thailand needs and wants to attract "higher grade" tourists with relatively better education and incomes (and therefore spending capacity). Those tourists will have English speaking ability and come from many countries, which, like it or not, is now the universal language of the moderately educated groups when outside their home countries, and Thais for their own benefit and mobility in and outside Thailand need to learn English, not Russian. The lower class Europeans that used to fill Pattaya didn't help the tourist industry develop, but they didn't hurt it either -- they spoke and understood English. The non-English speaking Russians, especially in controlling numbers, seriously hurt Pattaya's efforts to develop into a middle class tourist destination for the general public. Thai businesses should resist the signs in Russian and hotels should avoid employing Russian interpreters, and focus on English (and Thai) only. But we live in the short run (and in the long run we are all dead), so we will likely need to put up with the undesireable but "necessary" lower class Russians that are here in large numbers now, and accept the fact that growth does not always move in a straight line.

Want something is not mean "get or have something". if you not keep what you have, have chances to lost it. also tourists usually make decission themself where to go and where to spent their money. for business it no matter language spoken. your company for example can learn russian now to get more new customers, otherwise you just will lost them. It all about "english is universal", if you will don't know russian - you will loose russian customers but will still keep idea what "english is universal". true is it not universal. If it really universal - we not have such talks about it.

In touristic place all languages can co-exists easily (what happing right now at pattaya and at others touristic destinations).

any toursts (english or not, high level or not) also not help to thailand, them just go here for beach, sun, drink & fun and nothing else. even expats here for same reasons, but somebody can found own business or wife - factor which keep them here.

tourists is just way to bring money to country, not to "help". but some "tourists" work here as volunteurs, some give money to isaan gf - this is real help to real peoples. spending money is only help to local business and goverment as taxes. But also any tourists creating workplaces for locals. So it can considered as help to locals.

It not matter which language spoken in hotel, peoples here to

1. spend money

2. pay taxes via local busines/hotels to local goverment

3. give work places for locals (any services/hotels/etc). even sex tourism.

no tourists = no money, no non-english speaking tourists = less money, less workplaces for locals. so it can show you importance of any tourist groups. capitalism here, not high moral language ideals.

Some very interesting reactions to this poll.

I belong to a linguistic minority (at least here in Thailand) and having had to endure the Anglification of Pattaya for many a year, I see no harm in the Russification that is happening right now. What amazes me however is the fact that so many native English speakers are still in the " Rule Brittania " mindset, and find it a god given right that the whole world should speak English.

Languages divide peoples into groups and within these groups it is perfectly normal that one prefers his/her language.

End of rant

Yermanee

totally agree with you. really here is nothing to discuss, all this topics/posts happen only because one peoples think what them better then anothers. and them discuss only level of them brain propaganda here.

Russia isn't a real democracy so what does voting once or a hundred times have to with the price of beets? Let me know when you see Spaniards and Germans mostly talking to each other in Russian or Swahila or whatever, any language other than English ...

Next ...

real democracy is just beautifull word. nothing more. nowhere in world have real democracy, it just cute idea which everybody using for own purposes. just everywhere goverments takes national control and using them as they want and trying to control another nations using 'this cute word'.

You get the final word, mate. I think readers can make their own decisions on whether English or Russian is the REAL international language in the world today.

funny to read it in 'pattaya russification' topic. some peoples tell here what not liked russification here, but you give our 'final words'

your 2 cents, our 2 cents, who cares. all countries is great ;-)

I already explained why. That ENGLISH if the international language of commerce and tourism is a clear FACT. It doesn't matter if more people in the world speak a form of Chinese than English -- they are mostly in China or part of the Chinese diaspora.

I am not objecting at all to a business serving incoming Russian tour needs is an all Russian business. On the other hand, I was very annoyed the other day when a Russian restaurant not only stated they won't ever have an English menu, but refused to even try to tell me about they food they offered (given the person telling me this was speaking clear English). Hopefully this is not a trend, and I am not singling out Russians, I have had even worse experiences, most dramatically at a Korean restaurant where I was rudely ordered to GO AWAY. I applaud the effort many places are making now to offer Russian translations; the Russians are here, why not fully serve and welcome them? Of course.

not true. english is not international language in any way. lot of peoples not speaking english, their country not speaking english, most of europe not speaking english. lot of examples. germany, where most of peoples not speaking english, lot of other countries.

you get this idea just because you see english signs everywhere here you think what it international language. Is here any official document to proove it? Oh, no. not have a such document.

It Thailand english is everywhere because first farangs here was americans border-visitors. only that reason.

The people this survey should be aimed at is the local Thai population.

I only get one view from any Thai I meet.

They are not happy.

They see Russian "lady" work bar.

They see the beaches crowded with them but buy nothing.

They see the swimming pools crowded with them.

They never dress reservedly in the shops and malls.

They comandeer Baht Busses to go where they want and do not consider any one else. I have had several detours to Cozy beach planned for me - I just rang the bell got off and walked back to Thrappaya road - the driver is going to get crazy money any way - he does not need my 10 baht.

They haggle with local vendors on items that cost pennies in the first place...

On the property front - they are creating ghettos.

When I transfer money from my UK bank I am asked all sorts of questions about "money laundering" for security reasons.

But I know for a fact Russian/Eastern Block people buy blocks of condo apartments - 10 at a time - fully furnish them and .....walk away.

They never rent them out or come back to holiday in them.

Drug money well hidden.

The only locals that seem to benefit are 7/11's Family Marts, Baht taxi drivers and and Food Courts in the likes of Tesco and Big C...

One local RAG newspaper was quoting from its own survey that some Russian Tourist was on about people from the UK being surly and abusive....even my Thai GF laughed at that....she knows the people from UK are only surly and abusive to to ones that started the surly competition.....

please post a headline when you hear or see any of them having a good time !!!!!

By the way it is not just Pattaya the Russians are moving in on...Cypres, Spain, Portugal and for a long time now the South of France.

But, believe me there aint no way to turn back this tide of humanity.....I remember seeing the wall come down and thinking.....no good will come of this.....

just my humble opinion...

did you see british bangkok bums? i have seen and asked for money by them. i think locals who seen that guys also will have simular emotions about british peoples. also thais see how many british/usa business here taking money out abroad, and see how most of farangs using their girls (both ways of course) and trashing money everywhere. how them drink and drunk, how them stupid sometimes. of course thai not will say you it directly, but if not related you (to not lost face locally) - them can tell you it about another farangs.

also - just for fun - ask what they think about indians, here is not too much tourists from india by the way.

btw - cannot make decisions based on only few individuals from big nation. but you trying to do it. not forget what russians come here for holiday, not to make 'presentation" for you.

just 2 cents, in responce.

I think peoples here not have any right to speak about 'russians good or bad' or 'is good what russians in pattaya or not'.

most of peoples here is downshifters, it mean what you leave your homeland (very patriotic, haha) and selected another place to live. mostly because summer and girls. so moral is here - you cannot see your own wrong things, but like to judge another peoples and get only pleasures from life..

Basically you just immigrants here (some also illegal immigrants ), who may be have some money (just because lucky), but really your brain is not suit thailand needs. because your western ideas (but here is not your homeland), different money sources (often illegal here), your jugdements (bad because not like in my homeland).

So specially for persons created and supporting this topic - return back your homeland, listen your local propaganda and make your xenophobic ideas grow more and more. But out of your homeland you here just 'third-world' alien (like from ufo) (it because different goverments created this ideas/visas/anti-immigrants things/etc), who just cannot ek-ek-ek about another locals or "frogs from another lake". Otherwise your just creating more and more xenophobic ideas for all "lakes".

PS: any western farangs is also very not ideal here - just read the news.

this story can be true. and that ukrainian men can speak thai now (some words, related workjob/common phrases - but dont know all language). So many peoples here have idea what this story only to hide him overstay. But what if it true and later we will know more facts from news?

peoples here like to judge another peoples without any thinking! what can lead that 'nobrain downshifters' to simular situation(s) described at this forum and at criminal news. karma ©!

We know now, what the Russian told Police but we do not know what the construction worker told the police .. May be the story is upside down?

Drunken Russian are not angles.

as any another nation...

if it fighting = it fighting. If it robbery - it robbery. If this russian said something wrong but was robbed, it robbery anyway.

PS : may be him come to LOS for first time as tourist and just don't know true about thai smiles.

also something tell me what on him place can be british easily.

And none of this changes the fact that Victor Bout was legally extradited from Thailand to the USA today.....

It also doesn't change the fact that in a joint operation with the Thai police and US federal agents that Victor Bout conspired to sell guns to FARC.

He's gone folks ..... off to face a trial in the USA. Why? Because after reviewing the case it was deemed to be in accordance with Thai law and international law to extradite him. Sooooo .....

Buh Bye Victor! If the US Federal court he is tried in cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Bout is guilty, he will still walk. I lay the odds on him not being found guilty at about the same as a snowball not melting in hel_l

Bout is wanted for selling the bomb that landed in the Pentagon on 9/11. That is why he was entrapped. The Russians although proclaiming him a great citizen saw that his defense lawyer was a lackie destined to fail, and at the same time tricked his family in Russia. They bled him of all his money. They contributed nothing to his defence as far as money goes.

They are as much about getting him out of Thailand as was the U.S.

9/11 made by americans themself. so many movies, information in the net about it and have also many proofs in the inet. To get special permissions and 'Terrorist act'.

lol

Is it full moon today or already Friday night?

hehe. Lunatics come in all shades.

hehe. looks like you only one real person here, others is lunatics or werewolfes. but in this case why you come to this place? ;-P

Sergei...you are deluded. Sober up before you post and READ what's going on in the S. China Sea. And read further that nations such as Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc. sure are glad to be able to tap the US for some support in standing up to China. Go ask the legions of Indonesians who were sure glad the US Navy was around after the 2004 tsunami. Go ask the Bosnians who were being slaughtered until Clinton and US led the UN effort to put an end to that. Go ask the S. Koreans when back in 2003 N. Korea revealed their nuke program and S. Korea suddenly reversed their desire to have US troops leave. And, go ask China about how they have been able to enjoy their phenomenal economic growth in part because of the shipping lanes that are kept open with valuable assistance of the US Navy in critical shipping lanes like the Straits of Malacca. Do some reading Sergei...and I can accept due criticism of various US actions. What I don't accept is a one-sided, holier than thou bashing. Funny thing is, I've lived and worked in Asia for over 8 years now, and NO ONE has stated the the sort of one-sided crap you and others on this boards to my face personally. It's called cowardice when the likes of you spout your one-sided crap in the safety and comfort behind your little keyboards and clam up when a US Monster in the Flesh presents themselves to the likes of you. And, no I am not going home.

This is real one-side point of view. looks like you is american. Visit Vietnam (so not far) to see what american do in this country - it just live example you can view by your eyes. Help about tsunami - just if them not do it - them will lost 'world police leader' status. So it not about help, it about global interests.

N. Korea why started their nuclear program - mostly because americans. Like them create trouble for themself and after it fighting with it. Same happened about IRAQ & Afganistan (where usa support talibs, but later fighting with that guys) and now happening about IRAN.

And none of this changes the fact that Victor Bout was legally extradited from Thailand to the USA today.....

It also doesn't change the fact that in a joint operation with the Thai police and US federal agents that Victor Bout conspired to sell guns to FARC.

He's gone folks ..... off to face a trial in the USA. Why? Because after reviewing the case it was deemed to be in accordance with Thai law and international law to extradite him. Sooooo .....

Buh Bye Victor! If the US Federal court he is tried in cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Bout is guilty, he will still walk. I lay the odds on him not being found guilty at about the same as a snowball not melting in hel_l

Bout is wanted for selling the bomb that landed in the Pentagon on 9/11. That is why he was entrapped. The Russians although proclaiming him a great citizen saw that his defense lawyer was a lackie destined to fail, and at the same time tricked his family in Russia. They bled him of all his money. They contributed nothing to his defence as far as money goes.

They are as much about getting him out of Thailand as was the U.S.

9/11 made by americans themself. so many movies, information in the net about it and have also many proofs in the inet. To get special permissions and 'Terrorist act'.

I think US make some kind of hidden "special agreement" for his extradition and used all pressure on Thailand to get that guy.

But from some time I stop believe in words like 'merchant of death'. But USA looks now for me like real 'merchant of death' with all their wars - iraque etc, hollywood media to manipulate peoples opinion & mass peoples zombing, etc, etc.

main idea of it is good. However we all know how it everything implementing on real life. This is a new office, who starting from 'collecting farangs'. 8-O

What will happen if their system will not work and them just not will find criminals (also after such announcing, criminals just can go another province to extend their visas). Is this guys can start to make innocent peoples(farangs) criminals (for any actions like overstay, that what hotel not registered you in their database, etc) just to show the successfull statistic?

Also last situation with russian pianist show me one thing - what if anything happen in thailand with farang/not rich people - it can be very hard, near not possibly to prove what him is innocent.

Had to vote 'Not Sure' as you failed to tell us whether we got a decent lawyer....its way too subjective content....depends on witnesses are the police directly involved....high ranking Thai officials pissed off ...and on and on.....

You ask too much of me. I can't deliver. However, what I think you are saying is that if you were very confident of being acquitted you would come back. But even with that confidence, there is always the risk. It occurs to me now that I should have also said to presume that the hypothetical you would be able to settle in a country with no extradition agreement with Thailand.

Remember the Russian Pilots that landed at Don Muang with all the artillery and weapons on board and the Thai govt let them walk away after about 2 months of legal wrangling?

The same thing with this Russian Pianist

He is so famous the Russian govt is now involved and I suspect he will be cleared of any charges whether he is guilty or innocent

Power has a place in Thailand and without it, he would be in jail already

if you think what usa and uk not doing same 'hidden agreements' with another goverments - you dont know real life. also due for economic situation it easy to hire russian/ukrainian pilots without any knowledge what inside this airplane. and not easy to know who is real owner of this weapons. this real things is just hidden from public. it politic, not just common peoples actions.

also is you think because that pilots - all russians is have guilty by default? funny opinion, you just need to understand what here in thailand you treated same as russian - here mostly farangs - but not like 'european country of your citizenship' (but european nations is also same - difference only in money level and goverment who doing everything to separate peoples but forget what all of us living at one planet and same humans).

What about that russian pianist - i not think what him guilty. if here some hidden agreements - him not need to return to thailand for sure. not many peoples can do simular things. at least this make us think what him innocent and him is human of honour - not like most of us.

i think him not feel guilty, it why him returned back. not because his career, not because have hidden deal with police or because putin friend. just stop demonize russians, them same as all of us but have living at different conditions.

also we know how 'smart' and how sometimes can be catching bar workers and how them want money. it can be some blackmail or things like it (just it easy to see what him has money).

what about this cds - never take just to see cd/dvd covers(!) from boys who selling them at the boyztown or at dongstan beach at jomtien. because them sell anything and really must be arrested as cp distributors.

Recently I visited Ko Samet and the beaches are crawling with giant and obese Russians.

I have never seen such huge creatures.

Every time one of them goes into the water there is fear of another tsunami!

go usa for example, you will very very impressed. Lot of obese westerners is also staying here at Pattaya.

Just following a discussion abut Russians in Pattaya. And I still mean this is not a good thing for Pattaya. Most people live here can easy see this. And I also write about Indians because they are also a growing problem for Pattaya like the Russians. I love Pattaya so to see a problem growing is not so funny.

QUOTE (glegolo @ 2010-01-01 07:56:05)

QUOTE (R123 @ 2009-12-31 21:30:03)

OP writes about the Russians:

"how well turned-out and polite they are in general"

you must be joking?!

They are impolite, uncouth, treating other nationalities as invisible and inferior.

Most of the russians are cheaply attired and ask the Thai's what they think about them and most will say they dislike them for their unpleasant manners, impoliteness and meanness.

-------------------------------

Right on the spot.... keep out of their way. Russians have never been any good news to anyone in this world.

New money in Russia, all kind of lowlife comes to life and begin to travel. watch out!!

Glegolo

wow, Glegolo. Looks like everything simular can say about you ... personally (just based on fact how you speak about other peoples based on nationality). Unpolite, treating other nationalities as inferior and lower than him nationality, uncouth, talking in style "all russians", "russians never been good news", "all humans of planet earth", etc. This is clear example what doing propaganda, rumors, bad moods, nationalism and may be your own one random negative experience with somebody from russians. Also here is some symptoms of anxiety and may be cheap charlie syndrom...

But ... cheap charlie is not russian invention, not most of russians living abroad (like brits for example - living everywhere like locusts but not at their home country - and most of them still not understand what not everything for money!), drinking simular as russians - if not more, thinking about other nationalities as about something lowest (one from examples you can see in gatwick airport on immigration counters) and in just discussion on topic simular to this thread, i personally was asked for charity here at pattaya - and it was not russians but some brit, you cannot say negative things about full nation based on their money and wealth (which actually other huge topic), etc.

I just mean what nobody is perfect in this world and you can find bad and good guys in all nationalities. But due for that previous "cold war" your _own_ goverment propaganda you know and believe to many rumors and propaganda things which actually is not true. Same about Thais when you go to Thailand first time - you see them different than you. Simular about Russians - them is just different and it mean what you just not understand that peoples but trying to judge them and with bad manners.

Anyway, many russians living at Pattaya here and many more tourists will go here. So it not discussion who more bad or what to do or to go out from Pattaya because many russians. Better advice for you is to read something about them, try to understand and may be make new, good and real russian friends. Any other way just will increase your anger and anxiety.

By the way I not russian, but have some russian friends.

I am a TEM and I have visited the site Duan

It looks kind of fancy and nicely put

But reading the contenyt I can't help wondering:

a) Why are they afiliated to the official site ( they are partners ain't they?) of Thailand Elite when they are supposed to put pressure on that institution?

Why would they have us sign a petition?

I see that some people -not many though- have signed it (I did not see any petition on the site)

There is no reason for a petition as nothing has been officialy announced yet

It ain't because I believe this site is for real or not that I am asking but it just because it looks a bit weird

One thing I don't get either is why the Tem are not more active to get together before the

If future is good for us then we'll have made good connections

If not : ain't no time to waste

Can somebody send me the link to the TEM site ?

Cheers

Team

Hello, Team!

That domain on this site was created at 20-nov-2009, so just not possibly for them to have so many registered members (owners not sended any mailing, not promote site) and peoples who sign their petitions (what about this petition??? How TE member will sign something which him just cannot read?). Check << the other website >>, it real unofficial forum for TE members.