Tyke

Is it really this bad?

earthoria dot com/air-pollution-levels-in-chiang-mai-rising dot html

The short answer: No, it isn't.

The long answer: The website that you quote (earthoria[dot]com) is not something you should trust. I don't know who is behind it or his/her/their motives. This is, however, not the first time an article made up of insinuations, half-truths and lies is posted on the site.

An example: "In London, the United States and the European Union as a whole it is considered a serious pollution 'episode' if the PM-10 level exceeds 50". The author conveniently "forgets" to mention that the European Union standard ( http://ec.europa.eu/environment/air/quality/standards.htm ) also states that this level may be exceeded up to 35 times/year (i.e. about every tenth day) without this being considered in breach of the standard. The Thai standard, on the other hand, should never be exceeded, though of course it occasionally is. That the "London standard" is the same as the EU one is not surprising since the UK, including London, is a member of the EU

As for a PM<10 level being considered a serious pollution 'episode' in the United States, this is an outright lie. The US standard ( http://www.epa.gov/air/criteria.html#3 and http://www.epa.gov/air/particlepollution/standards.html ) sets the permissible limit at 150 µg/m³, i.e. three times what the author claims and 25% over the Thai standard ( http://www.pcd.go.th/info_serv/en_reg_std_airsnd01.html ).

Another example: "Last year [2007] the pollution levels got so high that literally thousands of people across Chiang Mai province were admitted to hospital with various respiratory illnesses – including Tina – and the government released a 24 hour emergency number for reporting the fires." This statement is actually true. However, not for the whole year but rather for a part of the month of March.

The author then goes on to quote a list (from the World Health Organisation) of yearly average pollution levels for a number of countries, implicitly comparing this to the Chiang Mai level for March 2007, the highest monthly average recorded this decade! This is a not uncommon, but nonetheless despicable, trick of demagoguery, mentioning two uncomparable facts together to create a non-existing contrast. The average pollution level for Chiang Mai this decade is 46.5 µg/m³, which does not compare that unfavourably with the WHO list.

Finally, it may be worth mentioning that the article is dated February 28, 2008. It is somewhat ironic to note that 2008 turned out to be the, pollution-wise, best year this decade with an average level of just 38.4 µg/m³!

So, what are the real facts? The following are two charts showing monthly average pollution levels for Chiang Mai and (1) some of the most and least polluted places in Thailand and (2) some popular "farang areas". The raw data comes from the Pollution Control Department website ( http://www.pcd.go.th/AirQuality/Regional/Q...fm?task=default ):

As one can easily see, March is usually a pretty bad time of year. On the other hand, for most of the rest of the year Chiang Mai is actually one of the least polluted places in Thailand.

My concusion would be: If you have a pre-existing respiratory condition you should avoid Chiang Mai during the month of March. If not, and during other times of the year, come and enjoy this wonderful city

/ Priceless

I have heard that besides farmers burning their field waste, the locals in Chiang Mai favour burning their rubbish instead of paying to bin it - so isn't very localised pollution, which may not show up for CM as a whole, also be a problem - like the next door neighbour producing smoke that wafts into your space? Just wondering.

Sounds expensive. I pay 3400 in Chiang Mai-Sripat; no stool sample or stress test.

It won't be anywhere near as comprehensive as the Bum test at that price. See the Bum web site for comparison.

I went in person to make my checkup appointment with Bumrungrad today and they gave me the little plastic cup and spoon for a stool sample, just like at Samitivej. So if you want to avoid violation of your fundamental orifice, make the appointment in person.

And it's damned difficult catching it on that spoon!

Did the test in Samitivej and was very content with the way they set it up and test results were explained. Indeed bring your running shoes and stool sample. Price 8700 Baht (special discount) They explained very well how my liver must have felt for the last twenty five years and advised to give it an off day every week........

cheers

From my comparisons (not incl Samitivej) I found that there is little saving to be made on the Bum tests at other hospitals by taking the core tests costing a few thousand baht and then adding optional tests and in some cases it was more expensive. You could pay the same at Bum as Samitivej for fewer tests. The beauty of the Bum tests are that they are very comprehensive and are all done together and are chosen according to your age/sex (see their website). Also it is best to have repeat tests done at he same hospital to make sure good comparisons are made year after year to avoid inter-hospital test variations so it is best to make a proper comparison of test and cost before the first test. I agree that the post test general evaluation of your results could be a bit better at Bum but overall they did the job and made good recommendations, depending on who the doctor was but this is probably true anywhere.

I have been twice for the 13000 baht 'Bum test' and really do recommend it - I have done a proper comparison of all the tests between Bum, BNH, Bangkok Christian Hospital (Silom) and St Louis (Sathorn). I concluded that Bum came out tops - the whole thing is done on an industrial scale and very efficient. There are many foreigners (mainly arabs) who come to thailand just for the 'Bum test'. The stress test is the most unpleasant one, closely followed by the faeces collection, but having these tests, now annually, is the best value for money I can think of. It led to me considerably reducing my alcohol intake, diet and exercise and my health has greatly improved as a direct result of what they found in the first test. Don't, as I did, think you are 100% healthy just because you feel Ok and don't seem to have any major problems - the major ones start to creep up on you without you knowing and before you know it, it's too late to do anything about it. I think the heart tests and cholesterol tests are worthwhile at any age and wish I'd had the 'Bum tests' available when I was younger.

I have news for you even Pattaya is down not like CM but its still not taking off.

I was in Pattaya this week and it was bursting compared to earlier in the year when it was almost empty. But don't know how it compares to previous years.

It was not staged managed, the Royal Marines would never have been involved in that at all.

I also don't think the marines were necessarily involved in the stage managing but I do think the rest of the 'cast' were and had probably been paid. I also wonder why the soldiers and the MP did not object to the camera being present or even seem to ask questions of why it was there. When the MP turned up he didn't even look at the camera or ask questions - if it had been me it would have been my first question as it could have had a great deal of relevance to the scenario that I was presented with and had to sort out. Why aren't some of the posters here looking critically at all this?

If anyone had any doubt what kind of clowns that are in control at all levels throughout the nation, we got it confirmed today. Again.

And I like this:

Sasisupa Sungvaribud, president of the Film Production Services Association, said the recordings took the form of a reality show and the events depicted were obviously staged and scripts written for the film.

First of all, it is a false statement.

Secondly, if it was not, it would mean the show is a film/tv-series production like oh-so-many-others with guns in them and their film-makers never got arrested for 'tarnishing the image of the nation'.

It requires stupidity to use that law for this and even greater to try to cover up the issues with claiming they are staged at the same time...

I've seen a few of these and most seem genuine but the jet ski one looks dubious - how come a film company was right there when it all happened and why did the ski operator allow them to film if it was to put him in a bad light? I suggest he was paid to help stage it all. It also looked like the farangs were guilty as the alleged perpetrator tried to run away. The Military police guy seemed to lose his confidence once he tried shouting the owner down and failed miserably - someone should have gently whispered to him that trying to get cash out of a Thai or not paying him, is not the same as getting a result from an underling in the armed services. The MP was completely out of his depth, especially when he claimed he knew that the damage was old. And how did 3 Thais 'surround' and intimidate a group of about 4 or 5 fully trained British sailors?

I can understand him not being aware that it is illegal, I've never seen any signs saying no sex in public places. How would you know?

There is no need for signs. That's what distinguishe humans from animals.

I bet soi dogs would really be put off by signs everywhere!

Thanks for the post Wpcoe, good information and sounds like some positive improvements.

I used to go to Suan Plu at BKK, but they have theor problems there too (crowded, Visa agents jumping the line, etc)

My 90 day reports have been prompt and curteous. The last reentry permit wasn't; when I presented myself to the officer, I smiled and said "Sawasdee krab!" He glared at me and barked "Wait!" So much for trying to get along, LOL!

Immigration is just one of those things I have to endure if I want to live in Thailand

I also do my retirement visa at Suan Phlu as my main residence (rented) is in BKK - however, I own a condo in Pattaya and visit regularly.

I did once get a proof of my Pattaya address from Pattaya and it was done most efficiently (they won't even provide me with one for my BKK home at Suan Phlu) - but Pattaya told me they could not provide one for my 'friend' who lives in BKK.

Does anyone know if I can renew my retirement visa in Pattaya if my main residence is in BKK?

all essential for the thai economy

if thai's had to pay farang prices they would need farang wages. where would the rice be then?

If the place was set up for gay rice farmers then i wouldn't object that much - but it ain't.

You really have'nt thought this through have you? U think they will stop at showing only captively-bred animals if they can make money from any specimen? There are loads of paople who will oblige with young taken from the wild if they are successful at making money from them whether captively bred or not. With endangered species, there is no half-way.

We as humans are a threat to animals, we just cant live with them. When we need room or resources we take them. So the only real solution would be a lot less humans. Your solutions are also not going to help. So you can say i don't think things through.. but you also don't see the big picture.

I just believe its all going to end anyway and not in a good way. Nothing you or i can do will stop it as long as there are more and more humans being born all the time.

Like to know your view on that one.

Anyway i still think things could be regulated in developed countries.. but not in Thailand. The whole point im trying to get across is that i am not against shows with animals as long as its regulated.

A bit gloomy but I agree to some extent. There may be some place for live shows of animals if it genuinely helps to preserve and take care of them. I am thinking of something like the elephant parks in the north. With most of the logging gone, there is no place for them and can be treated as pests when competing with farmers for food. By making them create an income for their handlers and also keeping them stimulated, it at least keeps them alive, healthy and reasonably happy if not exactly natural. At least they are not being herded on the streets of Bangkok like some others. But elephants in Thailand are not as endangered in the same way as Orang Utangs are. OU's are not even indigenous to Thailand.

A much better solution of OUs is like the preserves in Sandakan (Sabah) and Merdan. They are kept in a large forest area and visitors can view them feeding - it's actually a very boring experience but at least they live a reasonably natural life without having to dress up in drag to entertain strange men several times a day.

Yes No Problem

They were probably stolen as babies and their parents killed just to entertain a few farang for a night .

And if they were bred in captivity ? I don't condone taking them from the wild.

Have a look at what Briggsy has posted, Safari World has history - and it isn't good.

I wouldn't trust or ANY commercial exploitation of live animals (or people for that matter, eg hill tribes) in Thailand - whether it is in a zoo, monkey temple, nature park, safari park, night safari or whatever. Their humane record is abyssmal.

They can't even treat dogs properly even though it's a proud buddhist country. Their take on eating meat is that it's ok as long as someone else kills the animals because it's not the eating that's wrong - it's the killing!

My answer is appropriate to the word 'IF". Read it again.

I mean if they were.. would you still be against it or not. You just said that it would be impossible.

????? impossible? I don't know what you are getting at.

Yes No Problem

They were probably stolen as babies and their parents killed just to entertain a few farang for a night .

And if they were bred in captivity ? I don't condone taking them from the wild.

Have a look at what Briggsy has posted, Safari World has history - and it isn't good.

Then i don't condone it, i was asking if not saying these were not taken from the wild. I just don't have a problem with shows with animals that are bred in captivity and are treated well.

You really have'nt thought this through have you? U think they will stop at showing only captively-bred animals if they can make money from any specimen? There are loads of paople who will oblige with young taken from the wild if they are successful at making money from them whether captively bred or not. With endangered species, there is no half-way.

Yes No Problem

They were probably stolen as babies and their parents killed just to entertain a few farang for a night .

And if they were bred in captivity ? I don't condone taking them from the wild.

Look, if any Orang Utangs are bred legitimately in captivity for conservation purposes then they are not going to be sent to become circus entertainers are they? They will either be sent to other credible zoos for breeding purposes or returned to the wild.

I said IF

Did not say these where please read a post before commenting.

My answer is appropriate to the word 'IF". Read it again.

Yes...

or put the neanders who would support this unacceptable activity in the ring and let the Orangutan kick their shi**y brains out........WOT Brains.?

The neanders ARE in the ring with them - take another look at the vid. They've been dressed in light coloured shirts and long trousers and equipt with microphones to amplify their grunts.

Yes No Problem

They were probably stolen as babies and their parents killed just to entertain a few farang for a night .

And if they were bred in captivity ? I don't condone taking them from the wild.

Look, if any Orang Utangs are bred legitimately in captivity for conservation purposes then they are not going to be sent to become circus entertainers are they? They will either be sent to other credible zoos for breeding purposes or returned to the wild.

My understanding was that a few years back there was an outcry about this show, and it did stop. However, the last time I was there about 2 years ago the show was still running. As usual probably stopped it until the fuss died down, and then restarted. TIT.

\

I watched the show on youtube.. so gruesome.. i mean that something like this is allowed.. god.. ow jesus.... darn... hel_l...

I don't see any problem with this show actually, depending of course how they were trained to do this. You could argue one should not force wild animals to do tricks, but reality is it happens all over the world and in a way could help preservation too.

Else stop dog shows, shows with dolphins, horse races, dog races, ect ect can go on forever. I think it all boils down to are they hurting the animal while training and is it dangerous or painful for the animal to preform. I don't see any of that here.

Except where animals are seriously endangered, as Orang Utangs are, and not dogs, horses etc, then if they are shown to be successful at drawing crowds then they will be poached at a young, trainable age (their mother's being killed to facilitate this), just to draw even more crowds. In this case, money, not preservation is the aim and so the latter will not occur.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-FOUICuoos

I think it is appalling that apes should be expected to voice anything intelligent just by giving them amplified microphones.

My Retirement Visa has finally been granted and I will arrive soon. I haven't decided where to live and may have a look at the usual suspects once again before I settle. I mean Bangkok, Phuket, Chang Mai and Pattaya; all of which I have visited on holiday.

The existence of Expat Clubs appeals to me as I like to be sociable and will probably need lots of advice and support from people already established in LOS.

One of my hobbies is leisure cycling and I am wondering whether to bring one of my much loved bikes with me.

The questions that need answering are: Q1. are any of the places I mentioned as a base actually suitable for cycling? Q2. Do any leisure cycling groups exist and meet regularly? Q3. Would it be sensible to bring a valuable (worth 140,000 baht) bike with me or should I just buy a cheap MTB locally? Q4. Are there any cyclists out there who want to pm me?

(Yes. I am English, its yet another English vice; wearing trouser clips and loving bicycles. Lycra wearers are a different type of rider called 'roadies'. I imagine this post will cause puzzlement in the minds of people from certain countries).

Hi,

I am also a retired UK cyclist living in BKK - I bought mine here - a Trek from probike - I also have a Taiwanese folding bike in Pattaya. Cycling is not easy in BKK but still possible - I do a route from Lumpini Park to Queen Sirikit park (dedicated cycle lanes) and the route I take involves almost no road riding - I could show you one day. There is also the railway park dedicated to cyclists neat Mo Chit. For a day trip you need go no further than Prapadang (Bang Kra Chao) across the river. I have a series of cycle routes around BKK.

I am also a member of the Thailand Cycling Club (TCC) - do a Google on it - the schedule is in English - it's a good social thing if you want to meet educated Thais, as there are not that many farang members who cycle regularly, and they often do charity work involving fixing 2nd hand bikes for rural schoolkids and combine this with trips to schools. They sometimes go as far as Vietnam and often do 1 day trips around BKK. It's a great way to see places you would never get to see otherwise.

I went on the Tour de Thailand once - you can join for 1 day if you want.

pm me if you want further info.

I would be interested to know how many of these accidents, deaths and incarceration are related to alcohol.

I agree that stupid drunks cause big problems for everyone but the bar owners also have a responsibility not to sell alcohol to drunks. Instead they sell them far more cheap booze then they should and then complain of their drunken behaviour.

I'm sure Chas at Tuskers will be tuning in to see his team get thrashed by the mighty Aussies in the final Ashes Test next Thursday.

The series now stands at 1 win each and 2 draws. The mighty Aussies need only a simple draw to retain the Ashes but no doubt Ricky Ponting and his valiant team of heroes want a convincing win just to show the Poms who's the boss on their own turf.

Sandy will have it on at the UN Irish as well, no doubt.

Who's Gonna Watch The Aussies Flog The Poms, Ashes final test.

Not that I'll be gloating when the Poms go down in a screaming heap. Like hel_l I won't.

Those pommie bastards are going down.

You f#$%#$g, dum$#@se, wa%^$ng, whinging pommie c#$#s are gonna be slaughtered

Thanks Will. I guess Daveybabe can't read that well and is a bit blinded by the fact that those pommie gits are going to be humiliated.

Idiotic comments about pom exported criminals can be tolerated when they come from ignorant, uninformed individuals. Nuff said.

Well Tyke, despite your ignorant and inaccurate ranting, the English team will be humiliated by the Australian Eleven, again.

I really don't care who wins DB just so long as the Ashes Trophy has Australia engraved as the 2009 holders.

Just a reminder of some of the well-educated remarks from this jerk.

I don't know how this topic got past the moderators - it has nothing at all to do with either Thailand or Chiang Mai, which are the usual criteria for any topic on this forum. I guess the mod involved must have something going with the OP.

so today i was standing in front of a hotel waiting for a cab when i was addressed by a guy. he told me that he got drunk last night before taking the bus to bangkok (yeah we already know where this is going) and on the way there he was robbed of all his cash. first little red flag: it's 4pm and he's STILL drunk? he was telling me what an idiot he is and that he went to the police who brought him to the embassy, he got kicked out for being drunk..... you know, the usual BS. now the part that struck me as odd was that he didnt look like your normal scammer. apart from being totally wasted he looked like he takes care of himself. def not a druggie. he was wearing nice expensive clothing too. and he was also fairly educated, as well as able to speak fluent french and german with me.

he said even 40 baht would help him out, so to get him off my back i gave him the 40. he seemed very grateful.

my first question is: is the british embassy even open on a sunday? and also, why would someone like that be begging for money? of course it seems highly suspicious, but maybe someone else has some thoughts about this. it was really strange because this was taking place literally in front of the main entrance to a nice-ish hotel downtown and nobody reacted to it until i pointed it out to the desk manager who promptly had him escorted from the grounds.

He's a scammer for sure and you wasted your 40 baht - but we have all done it - some of the most plausible con-men dress and speak well - some of the most honest do not (just look at the crooks spewed up by the British 'public (read '

private') school' system in the Uk, who work in Government and the City of London, for example. With these guys, the fact that they screwed 40 baht out of someone, whilst incapable, is an accomplishment - it doesn't matter how much - that's why he looked so pleased. These tossers make it difficult for genuine cases.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah..........and if you beat us don't forget Freddy has a bad knee, Ramprakash (if he plays) is almost 40, Onions eyes keep watering and Strauss waves his bat like a baton as if conducting the bloody Blue Danube, so not too many deliveries just outside the off stump please (you know, the way McGrath used to do it).

Cheers, grab a stubbie me ole digger sport mate and g'day (whatever the hel_l that means).

Freddy has a sore leg? Sad.

Ramprakash, a great English name. Where does he hail from? Stratton-on-Avon?

Onions eyes keep watering? That's almost funny.

Strauss waves his bat like a baton? Well with a name like that I guess he's used to conducting a group.

You f#$%#$g, dum$#@se, wa%^$ng, whinging pommie c#$#s are gonna be slaughtered.

Post 2nd World War saw a huge migration to Australia by Europeans, mainly Italians and Greeks but others from almost every nation. These Europeans were responsible for the massive building program that took place at the time and were part of the huge package that made Australia the wonderful multicultural sporting nation that it is today. The Poms continued to find their way to Australia in the 1950's and 1960's by way of assisted passage. They had to pay 10 pounds to get there and eventually were able to integrate themselves into the system. Most of these characters became prison warders, trades union officials and various other jobs where they could continue in their whining and whinging ways. Of course later, in the 1970's and 80's there was the Indochinese migration with 10's of thousands of refugees finding Australia as their new home. Now in the new millennium Australia is experiencing an influx of people from various African nations.

So, little old Australia, with it's meagre population of 19 million souls (of which approximately 25% weren't born there) can find a team of 11 to flog that team from the western extremes of Europe, a team which is made up Indians, South Africans and a few indigenous poms. Should be a good fun match to conclude the series.

What a rant.

If you read this guy's 2 posting s above, none of it makes any sense - he seems completely twisted - is he racist, anti-immigrant, paranoid, schizo or all four?