CWMcMurray

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...39560&st=40

Check out the link above to another post and diisregard what I have said so far on this post. I didn't realize window 2 was for tourist visas and counter 5 was only for the visa on arival, I thought both were done at wind 5. I saw the signs only at counter 5

I know someone who is a professor at a University here who got one for being an academic or expert I am not certain which category. The University wanted to give him 10 year and said that before they could do it he needed to be a resident. He said the University did everything he just needed to sign some papers.

As far as I know he doesn't have a Thai wife and he can't speak a lick of Thai.

I don't know anymore details than this but was told this by the professor in question.

I know that this a bit off topic but I am answering the request for info by simon43. Whats up simon43, I think we are going through the same process right now, on ed but will prob. have to change to O so we can get a work permit so we can get our ducks in arow for residency.

As long as he's got clearance he's fine - but CW should not be telling people that "this is all you have to do and that's it - you're legal". This is clearly not going to be case fo all, or possibly even a majority of cases.

CW - it matters not if it's an overseas instutution sponsoring the intern. What matters is:

a. The intern is a foreigner

b. There *must* be a local sponsor. In your case, it's also your local educational institution. For overseas institutes, they still require a local sponsor - in the thread mentioned, it was Sunbelt themselves. Sunbelt could've sponsored you too from a local institution - and if you are a foreigner you would likely still require a work permit.

Of course if you are Thai, you don't need any of this documentation as you can apply your right as a citizen to work here.

If you are a foreigner, you can't work. If you are here on an internship, and your internship requires whatever the Labour Department considers to be work, you need a work permit. No local university is going to be able to break the rules any more so than an overseas institution can. And if your internship is not classified as work, you're fine.

Example - If you're studying medicine at Mahidol, and you do an internship at the Mahidol medical center, I think you can safely say that this is education and not work. If, however, you try to do an internship at Bumrungrad, I think you will have a hard time making your case.

It is important not to paint everything with the same brush, particularly when the law itself is very broad - or very narrow, depending on how the authorities choose to interpret it.

What I have found out is that if you are doing an internship for a Thai University that is required for graduation from that university it is not considered work, but you need to follow the procedure I previously stated in order to be "legal". If it is not required by your Thai University in order to graduate then it is considered to be work.

It is important whether or not you are from an overseas university because if you are coming from overseas then it is always considered work.

From the two examples you stated above mine is like the second one but would still not require a work permit. From the information I have gathered the things that are important are whats in bold above.

In the west we often go and get internships on our own and while we still call them internships they are not done through the university. These would require a work permit, what is covered are those internships that you have to go through your univeristy's external internship department in order to get and are required to graduate and this is only if you are a student at a Thai University. In this case and this case only you are covered by your ed visa and it is not considered to be working.

I hope this is helpful in illustrating the unique case where a work permit is not needed

I say go ahead and go for the education visa, it will allow you to stay for as long as you are enrolled and is very easy to extend every year. I have been studying at a Thai University for 3 years. You can go for Bachelors or Masters or just for language classes; it will also give you a chance to make friends, which can be difficult when moving to a new place. It will also give you something to do while he is at work, which will keep you from going crazy. If you want some info about going to school here let me know.

I was at the immigration office in Bangkok last week and while I was sitting and waiting I saw a hand written sign by the window that usually handles tourist visa extensions. It read, "Only 7 day extensions for all visas".

So this may mean that they may be changing the policy or enforcing a policy that was previously unenforced.

I was at the Immigration office in Bangkok TODAY and I too saw a sign (paper) saying "Only 7 day extensions for all visas" on counter 5. However counter 5 is clearly marked "Transit visa , Visa on arrival , no visa (AKA visa exemption).

There was NO such sign on counter 2 (extension of tourist visa).

Now I remember a time when you could get 14 days on a 30 day VE entry and presumably this is no more and that is what they are referring to.

I have to apologize, I also saw it at counter 5; I didn't realize that tourist visas used a different counter. Sory for the bad info and thanks for setting it straight. Maybe I need to get a new pair of glasses.

I can not speak about Penang because I have never been there, but I did get my student visa from Singapore 3 years ago with just the stuff you had on the list.

The only thing worth mentioning is that they required the letter to be addressed to the Consulate in Singapore so make sure you decide where you are going before the school writes the letter for you.

I was at the immigration office in Bangkok last week and while I was sitting and waiting I saw a hand written sign by the window that usually handles tourist visa extensions. It read, "Only 7 day extensions for all visas".

So this may mean that they may be changing the policy or enforcing a policy that was previously unenforced.

Thank you Jimjim I believe we are discussing two different things as well. That is why I don't want to argue anymore. The thread that is given talks only about interns from overseas educational institutions and I completely agree with you on that front.

I was just discussing what I had found out on this issue and the sources I got that information from because this very specific issue has not been discussed on TV as far as I can find.

Ok I am done arguing with you, it seems you don't have any answers either. It seems that the most important question is whether or not an internship is considered working, it is hardly irrelevant. If it is, then how would he/she get a work permit on an non im ED?

I am looking for anyone who has any information specifically about the legality of interns enrolled at a Thai University and what they would need to do.

Again specific information dealing with interns specifically and not interns enrolled at universities over seas.

Thank you

I did not say it is possible to get a work permit with an ED visa. I did say that I can see it being possible given the documentation that you would have to provide.

I did not say that an internship is considered working, either.

I said that it is not possible to work without a work permit.

So what are you saying? These are the million dollar questions. If you don't know it is ok to say so, I can't really find any sort of consensus either.

I don't consider it anything. ED visas are issued for both students and teachers

So if teachers are being given non ed visas how are they getting work permits? Or was this something that happened in the past before they changed the policy that you can not get a work permit with a non im ed?

No one mentioned anything about deportation, first of all - I simply said it was illegal

If your found to be working illegally and your visa is revoked doesn't that mean you have to leave volluntarily or be deported? I have to admit my ignorance in this area.

And it is not a battle between two government agencies either. Neither Immigration nor the Ministry of Education have any say in who is allowed to work in Thailand and who isn't. Immigration determines your right to enter or remain in the country. Education may determine your right to be able to study in Thailand. And Labour determines whether you are allowed to work or not.

And doesn't the education department also decide what is included in studying? This is a bit a gray area presently as far as I can tell, do you know where the labor department falls on this issue?

Unfortunately, the Labour Department will win. And you are talking about a message that no one said was going to be sent

You may well be right, has there ever been any sort of case dealing with this type of situation? I would hope that would never occur but if it did wouldn't that message be the outcome if the student's visa was revoked?

This depends on what you are doing. You said yourself that you didn't need a work permit to work.

I said this to illustrate the point that the OP might believe that this person is working but he may actually be studying. This was to show that he may not have all of the facts and he may be jumping the gun to say that he is working. Perphaps I should have put it in quotes "working"

If you are not working, then you are not breaching your conditions of stay. You had better make sure, however, that whatever it is you are doing is not classified as work by the Labour Department. The Ministry of Education knows this, and so does the Immigration Department, and they will not challenge a ruling by the Labour Department if it ever comes to that. Furthermore, if you are adjudged to have breached your conditions of stay, then the Immigration Department will revoke your visa, no matter what the Ministry of Education says.

How can you be so sure of this? Are you saying there will be no discussion between the labor department and the education department on what constitutes work and what is studying? Are there any cases on point? I have tried to find out information from anywhere and everywhere and the only place I got a straight answer or really any answer that sounded like more than a guess specifically about interns enrolled at a full time Thai University was at immigration.

Again I am not willing to risk this and I will be changing my visa (I am married, so this option is available to me) and I will be getting a work permit(the company agreed to do this for me). But the question still remains what is the correct procedure for a international student who needs an internship in order to graduate who can not qualify for anything but an education visa supposed to do? Is there some regulation to deal with this very specific situation in the labor law now that you can not get a work permit with an ed. Or are there exceptions to getting a work permit with an ed visa and would this qualify under any such exception?

I have a friend who is study at the same school as me and will need to do an internship around new year and I would really like to be able to tell him with some level of certainty what he needs to do.He will not be able to change his visa, he has a non im ed and is will not be able to qualify for any other type of visa. So what should he do.

P.S. I couldn't get the quote thing to work, so I had it put it in italics

Also there are tons of cars stolen everyday, just listen to FM 100. Its in Thai but its a radio news station that you can call into if your car is stolen and they broadcast it over the airwaves in the hopes that someone will see your car and call it in.

I always listen to JS100 to and from work.

It's mostly pickups that are taken but in the last month or so quite a number of Fortuners have been stolen.

And thats why I will never buy a pick up in Thailand again... I thought wow they are so cheap, why not get a pick up. Next car will be a car!

Should be the Bangkok Office, I'll be working in the city.

Secondly why do you consider it working and not studying?

This sounds like a battle between two government agencies and I some how doubt that anyone would get deported for following the procedure set in place by immigration and the ministry of education.

Who do you think would win, immigration and the ministry of education vs. the labor department and what kind of message do you think it would send tothe world if Thailand deported students for fulfilling their obligations for their degree programs under the argument that the education visa they were given didnt allow them to fulfilling those same obligations.

You say that the labor department says I am working and I say that both the minisrty of education and the immigration department say that I am not and the labor department has no reason to be involved.

That being said... I have other options available to me and I will be changing my visa and getting a work permit but my case is the exception that proves the rule. Most students do not have the option to change their visa. They can either get a non im ed or a tourist, so this whole discussion is more about the average student rather than about my personal situation.

It is also important to note that I did not get this information about not being able to get a work permit from immigration alone. I also contacted both law firms that sponsor this site as well as another lawyer and was told by those in the know in previous posts on the visa/work permit forum. Every single one of them has told me that the regulations have changed and that is is not possible to get a work permit with an education visa.

There is no way to skirt the regulations on employment, period. You must have a work permit in order to work, with no exceptions.

So, if you cannot get a work permit on an ED visa, you cannot work. The funny thing is that ED visas are also issued for teachers - so I suggest you find out how they manage to work on an ED visa. But you still need a work permit regardless.

Salary is not an issue. Volunteers are required to get work permits as well, as stupid as this may seem. In other words, if you work for free, you still need a work permit.

So where and when and from whom did you get your information? To whom have you talked to that told you specifically that an internship is considered working and who has told you that it is posible to get a work permit with an ed visa? Specifically, rather than blanket broad statements if posible.

Ok, sounds good. So just bring our marraige certificate.

Thanks

Thats the route I am going, change to an "o" and then get a work permit. The only thing I am waiting for now is the call from the lawyer to say whether I can change my visa status here in Thailand or if I will have to leave.

I have been informed by members of this forum that I should be able to do it here in Thailand but I haven't finished the process yet so I can't say for certain.

But if you want to apply for change of status here in Thailand you should extend first because if you don't have at least 21 days left on your visa you can't do it.

Really? We are just getting started with the process of getting the visa and work permit. What are the key aspects of the contract. Besides your wages what else needs to be included? Do all benifits need to be included? Do these need to be done every year when you reapply for your work permit? Does anyone have a copy of an example contract? Has anyone ever got a work permit without a contract?

I just went through this with Citibank and I had a bit of difficulty, they told me my address was too long and it wouldn't fit into the computer. I asked to speak with the supervisor who told me that the computer program would only allow 20 characters per line and there was nothing she could do. She advised that I send it to an address in the States and then have them send it to me or go to the local post office and see if I could shorten my address.

I chose the latter and the man at the post office said I couldn't shorten the address in any way but he said I could open a post office box for 100 baht per year. I then called the credit card company to see if they would send it to a post office box. They said that they would and I asked about registered mail and UPS and was told that they couldn't do that because they can't send either of those methods to a PO Box and my address was too long.

So I had it sent to the PO Box and received it without any problems other than being really nervous and checking my account online everyday until it arrived.

I will be having my first child any day now and I have a question about the birth certificate and a non-im "o" visa. After reading the non "O" required documents I saw that it said your child's birth certificate with your name on it, and that you name must be the same as in your passport.

This is in contradiction to the information the hospital gave us which said that I need to get my name translated into Thai and then have it authenticated and bring it to the hospital so that my name can be written in Thai on the Birth certificate.

So what should I do? Should my name be in Thai or in English and if it needs to be in Thai then will I have any issues with visas or residency because the name on the birth certificate is not the same as the name on my passport?

I am interested in finding out what are the typical benefits offered at most Thai firms?

What type of health insurance, retirement, expense accounts and education assistance just to name a few possible things do they generally offer?

If you are currently working for or have worked for a Thai company what benefits do/did you have? Did you have to negotiate for them or are they freely given to all employees?

I have been offered a position at a Thai company and we have discussed salary and I was asked if I wanted it written in a contract. I understand that for short time or contract work it makes sense to have an employment contract but I was a offered a full time position without an ending point. During the interview she talked about recruiting the management team for the next generation...

Is it common practice for all employees in companies to have employment contracts? It is also important to mention that I do trust this employer, I have been friends with the owner's daughter for the last few years, the owner was very generous with me and I have talked with both Thai and westerners who know about this company and they have all said that it is a great place to work. It is important to note that neither was an employee there; one of them had a family member who worked there and the other tried to get a job but was not hired. Despite not being hired he had nothing but good things to say about the company and the owner.

So does anyone know about this? How common are labor contracts for full time employees?

It is also important to note that I did not get this information about not being able to get a work permit from immigration alone. I also contacted both law firms that sponsor this site as well as another lawyer and was told by those in the know in previous posts on the visa/work permit forum. Every single one of them has told me that the regulations have changed and that is is not possible to get a work permit with an education visa.

When I was at immigration getting my extension for my "ed" I asked about getting a work permit and was told that with a non im "ed" you can no longer get a work permit. I then asked, "As a full time student I am required to do a internship in order to graduate, if I can't get a work permit with an "ed" does this mean that I can not fulfill my obligations to study with out changing my visa in order to qualify for a work permit, since it is not posible, I repeat not posible to get a work permit with a student visa.

Or does this mean I do not need a work permit?

I explained all of this in Thai and she understood exactly what I meant and she wasn't sure what the answer was. She turned around and started to explain my situation to her supervisor behind her. I could hear her and she explained almost exactly as I explained it above. The supervisor didn't even look up and she replied in a tone that sounded like she was reciting word for word something from a regulation. You know, that completely bored sounding voice... like this happens every day how come you don't know about this already; what I stated above is what she said to do.

If you think about it this makes more sense than the alternative... You come to study and are required to do an internship in order to graduate and are required to get a work permit only you are not allowed to get one with a "ed" visa so you have to change your visa, but to what? Most students are not married so no "o". What about a "b", do you think a company would go through all of that for an intern? For only 3 months? Who would be responsible for doing all of this, the student or the school or the company? So what then, no international students are allowed to graduate if they attend a Thai University?

If by somechance you get the "B" and the work permit and then you finish your internship and your work permit is cancelled and you have 7 days to leave the country and then you have to reapply for your education visa again.

It is considered a 12 credit class that you have to pay tuition for, you must also write a paper, give a presentation and will be graded; so even though you may be working why is it so hard to believe that they can't consider it to be part of your studies and covered by your "ed" visa.

At the end of the day if the people in charge of your ed visa say that this is considered to one of your classes and is covered by your visa as long as you notify them...

I think you would be right if they hadn't changed the regulations recently and you could still get a work permit with your "ed" visa. If what she said isn't correct things could get really messy for students here.

Thanks for your unequivocal response.

I spoke to someone who said that they were doing this. Now I gather they must been working unofficially.

What the heck are these people (who are working on ED visas) doing? English teachers bring in 30k+ a month (i.e. not much) but regular jobs pay 5000-6000 a month which must make it tough to live.

You used to be able to get a work permit under an education visa but not anymore, so depending upon when he told you this he may have been working legally with an "ed" and a work permit.

Next, if he is a full time student doing an internship through his university he can do it legally. All he would need to do is get a letter from the university stating that the internship is a required part of the degree program and have them list the name of the company and the dates that he will be working.

Then take this to the immigration office and turn it in at the same window they go to for their visa extensions. If you do this then you are legal and do not need a work permit. This is what I was told last week at the immigration office. Previously you would be allowed to get a work permit with a "ed" visa but since you can't anymore this is what you have to do. The lady I spoke with wasn't certain and then asked her supervisor and this is what I was told.

Also remember that it is possible to get a paid internship,so again he may be working legally.

Lastly, are you sure he is on an "ed" visa? If he is on a "O" or a "B" he can get a work permit and he is still allowed to study. I asked my school about this and was told I didn't need to be on an "ed" visa in order to study.

Who are you leasing it from? Are you looking for a partner? Because unless the property holder is willing to put it up as collateral your chances are slim to none. It is difficult to get financing as a foreigner to begin with and a lease is not much in terms of collateral.

So you want to build a resort and after 30 years then what, just let the land owner have it? If you are going to make that type of investment on his land it might be worth it to try and bring him into the buisness.