yaketyak

Oh happy days!

Wasn't GU 22 that refugee from another forum that Scouser had to curtail lest his over bearing priggishness and adulation for the British Embassy visa staff made everyone defecate in their pants and puke uncontrollably? I rather think he was a woman and an ugly one at that.

Archiving is actually quite interesting and there is a mine of information there, if only folk took the trouble to excavate.

That Atlastaname/Silomfan was certainly a piece of work and quite possibly a homosexual.

Electra , your memory of GU22 is correct , although he was/is a man .. whatever made you think otherwise ?

Atlas/ Silomfan no doubt still is a "piece of work" .. although his sexual orientation surely has nothing to do with his posting merits one way or the other !!??

AND Electra, i don't recall your name much in the legendry arguements between those two, where you one of many who preferred to critisise from the sidelines without contributing?

I suspect neither one is that far away from this forum ..............

This bickering between the two of you is getting a little bit boring and detracting from the original post, can we put an end to it please,

This bears no comparison to the flame wars of Atlastaname/Silomfan/GU22 & last but not least good ole Toppers, of two tears ago,

Moss,

kind of you to remember .. they were good days weren't they ?

alas pressure of time means one can do no more than occasionally browse and occasionally contribute nowadays

Yak

7 by 7,

I too am basing my opinions on over 16 years of dealing with the BE in Bangkok , first time was 1993 . In those days one was allowed into the compound and whilst others were looking at magazines or talking i always watched what was happening and listened to the interviews (you could in those days hear quite easily) . Using the spurious excuse of overcrowding the BE stopped us from going in and witnessing how they talk to applicants. Quite disgraceful some of it .. and no doubt its no differant now except they've stopped people like me overhearing it and complaining .

So whilst i accept there are good ECO's (and yes i have dealt with them too ), if you are a reasonable person you must accept there are bad ones too. Like in all large departments all over the world. Law of averages , although i have to say that IMHO the job of ECO (and immigration officers in the UK come to that) seems to attract a certain type of person rather like traffic control attracts those who love to book cars.

I believe a tick box system would stop those bad ones from deliberatly refusing visas based on prejudice or dislike.

Anyway like we said , we don't want to get into what would become a never ending battle on this ... we disagree ... thats it . Fact is we are both right because we both base our opinions on what we have both experienced . There is no definative answer.

7 by 7 ,

thanks for your long and detailed reply.

I would gladly take it bit by bit and respond to you but unfortunately , apart from taking this thread off topic for the most part, to do it justice i would have to spend more time than i have (full time worker) writing a very long reply backing up my views , especially on the tick box system which i strongly favour.

I don't think anyone here would thank us if we did this although if there really is a demand for it i would try and condense my reply into a readable chunk . Maybe others could indicate if they wish this ?

So for now we'll have to agree to disagree .

I will say that i think you make some very quaint and naive comments about the integrity of the ECO's. What you say is correct in theorey , not always in practise. I'm sure you believe sincerely in what you write, but i disagree with a lot of it as i think you reflect the theorey of immigration rules as written ,whereas my comments reflect more the reality.

Yak

I think the problem is that he was acting like he does in his country.

Funny.. very funny !! And quite possibly true.

Look, i don't know the guy so i cannot comment on him . But i can repeat what i have said before on this forum in other topics which is that if you come to Thailand with little money and little ability to raise more if needed (as in this case) then IF you get into trouble you have a bad time. If you come to Thailand with money and , most importantly , the ability to raise big amounts of it (not that big by our standards) at short notice , you will have no problems . Everything is solved by money . Rightly or wrongly (on balance i think rightly!!) you can buy yourself out of anything as long as you do it quickly.

If you're the type who gets into fights make sure you've got your ATM card in your pocket. Unfortunately it is the types who get into fights who have no ATM card ... thus the problem.

7by7's post -which is about as near as he will ever get to critisizing the BE - takes a swipe at those like me who advocate a tick box system . Yes its true under that system the visa would have rightly been refused because two documents asked for were not provided. But thats the fault of the agent and the OP not the system. Its not true for him to go on to say there is nothing that the OP could have done about it because there would have been. Immediately apply again this time enclosing the documents and the visa would have to have been issued.

He goes on to say that "the UK system allows ... discretion ...." THATS where the problem lies.!! The discretion given to ECO's to interpret how they CHOOSE to rather than having to accept whats in front of them by way of proof.

One bit of his post i do agree with is the sentence that begins ..."what i find incomprehensible ..." . Quite correct . The ECM should be made to explain in writing why this occurred , but will she be made to ? No of course not !! If i were the OP i would be making that happen.

Why is there not a UK phone number that can be called when absurd refusals like this are made , where the sponcer can call and explain the errors and ask for action to be taken? Wouldn't cost much in the scheme of things. I'll answer my own question ... because this nasty government doesn't want to issue visas to those it sees as largely low grade potential settlers so will not do anything that might help them .. never mind that the relationships might be genuine.

My partner and i have already beaten those trying to keep us apart in the UK , so selfishly i do no more than complain here and warn others. But if i were in the position of those refused visas wrongly i wouldn't be happy with just getting the visa in the end , i would want to kick up a huge fuss about it , lobbying MP's and Government. Most people too easily forgive and forget the trouble and heartache they are caused by our immigration system as soon as they get the visa they want. Sorry if SOME of this post is off topic.

Well at the end of the day it's the result that counts.

No i don't agree. "At the end of the day" , we should have a system where those entitled to a visa get it ,WITHOUT HASSLE, and those that aren't don't. So many who are entitled have their lives turned upside down for months or years because although entitled to the visa our deliberately unclear and vague rules mean ECO's can interpret them differently causing a lottery as to whether you get the visa or not. A clearer system should be introduced to take away all the uncertainty.

Wife just had a call from the Embassy....come and get your Visa on Wednesday. YES!!!!

Really pleased for both of you, how did you achieve the turn about?

Not sure, I have not been able to speak to them directly, but a series of grovelling faxes may have helped.

No Brandx , whatever reason it was it was NOT due to a series of grovelling faxes. That implies they are compassionate and care about you and yours. You should know by now they neither care about you nor are compassionate.

Mostr likely scenario is that they looked at your case , decided they were in error and that the refusal wouldn't stand at appeal , and issued the visa. Did they enclose with the visa a letter of profound apology? No of course they didn't.

After all your suffering you no doubt want to move on . What you should do is write a letter of complaint to them asking for a full statement as to why they overturned the refusal and if it admits to fault on their part then copy it to your MP and ask him/ her to investigate why these errors are happening . Because it affects others in the future not just you.

Congratulations, but in your joy don't forget the suffering they caused you.

All this talk about the OP's agent is really irrellevant and not helping the OP now. What he would and wouldn't like to do to him is equally irrellevant. He won't get a refund and the agent can do nothing with the embassy now. Put it down to a bad experience .. fact is you needn't really have used an agent at all.

The point now is that several members have advised you to contact the ECM ,this would have been my advice too, so have you done it yet and whats the result. You simply phone them and ask to speak to her. The website says that Aleyne Howerd is still ECM . For that i am sorry for you . Having spoken to her over the phone in 2005 i can tell you she struck me as very unpleasant , loves to uphold refusals and make people go through the terribly long winded process of appeal.

However IF everything is as you say , its hard to see how even she could uphold the refusal.

Also contact the authorities in the UK and complain and go to see your MP .

Don't sit back and do nothing . Time is of the essence as this will go cold quickly if it hasn't already.

Dead cat bounce? Traders snorting low grade coke? A bi polar reaction to depression?

What is for sure is that there is no sound economic reason for this ' recovery ' except cheap sentiment and an idiotic belief among the British that because they want everything to get better it will.

Electra , i read your anti-British post with interest. I am no fan of the British Police State (formally known throughout history as the United Kingdom) but i must disagree with you on your economic comments. There is no doubt that in Britain we are in a mess , but so is the US and so is Europe (dreadful figures out of Germany last week) and so is Japan (terrible figures released today GDP MINUS 15% !!).

All the currency commentators this last week have remarked on how the most undervalued currency at present is the GBP , especially in relation to the Dollar and Euro.

So i would bet that as this year goes on we shall see a continued rise against these currencies (and thus against the THB as well)

You can run Britain down as much as you want , and i certainly do in many respects, but you cannot get away from the fact that we are and always will be an economic power with a currency that will rise as well as fall. Its fallen far too far since last summer and will now rise ... just wait and see.. i'm right

Carmine6,

Couple of ways i break down notes is

1) If i am getting short i change big for small at reception of hotel (never a problem although doesn't help if you aren't staying at a hotel)

2) i can't get through the day without a Macdonalds ice cream so thats always a good way to break a note cheaply.

3) seven eleven shop... easiest way of all

Kuhn Yaketyak, how are you today? I trust life is treating you well.

I was wondering if you could spare a moment to assist me please. I believe you mentioned in a previous posting being able to withdraw 100,000 baht in a single ATM transaction. Could you please advise where I might find such an ATM in Bangkok and the type of account I would need to have to do as you do.

Thanking you in advance for your reply.

Jeffer

Hi Jeffer,

I must confess that the last time i used the ATM in Thailand was in the good old days when the HSBC was in Silom Road , and that particular branches machines allowed these big withdrawls. When i go to get money now i go into the branch (moved years ago to Rama 1V road nearby) and take it out from the teller. No charge. Usually take out about 100000 at a time , whats the point in taking less? That way i only need to go there maybe once a month.

But all this triviality over how much various banks machines now allow in one go is really neither here nor there. NOTHING detracts from my comment that if anyone is so annoyed by paying 150 baht that it leads to the rants we have seen on here , then go to the ATM less and withdraw the maximum you can each time. You can't argue with that logic .. which is why no-one has.!!

I think the people who are annoyed by this charge are ALL the ones who just HAVE to go to the ATM everyday (probably like they do in the UK) to withdraw minimal amounts. Can anyone explain to me why people do this ... i can't fathom it . And don't give me all this rubbish about being mugged , because i don't believe thats why they do it . Its a mentality issue ... they grew up learning to pay for everything , no matter how small , by card by parents who probably do the same. I have no idea why people do this.

One example and then i'll leave it ..... i usually get my petrol in a very large and busy Tesco filling station. Typically there is a queue of about 10 people ready to pay at any one time . Whilst in this queue i notice that , almost without fail , everyone pays by card . I am the only one who pays with cash. Pay with cash and you can forget about it . Pay with card and you have to keep the receipt , check it off on the statement .. blah blah . What a waste of time .

OK RANT OVER

I also have respect for the immigrants in the UK who have left their Homeland and try a new way of life here

There's been a few programs on TV lately here in England glorifying the new Border Agency. It's the first time anyone has been allowed to film these normally secretive operations. Cynical as this may sound I am convinced they are only showing this to placate the 'British jobs for British people' contingent. What you have is a load of people being thrown out of the country, these people may not have qualifications and be highly skilled but they do have motivation and a passion to succeed, something which is clearly lacking in a good proportion of the population.

Ironically if these illegal immigrants came over here and took to a life of crime instead of working for a living they would almost never be caught as they tend to get caught working in publicly accessible places like restaurants, building sites, etc. The 'authorities' go for the and easy targets.

I don't think i have missed any episodes of this Border Agency programme , and what struck me after a while is that they certainly show the successess , where people with false documents try to get in or hide in lorries. What they don't balance that up with is showing how people who ARE entitled to come here having obtained a genuine visa , are also singled out and the trouble they are put to , often for hours , being allowed to go on their way without much of an apology.

Also agree with Gacca's post in the main , Britain has become a police state .. and all for political reasons , not because it needed to. Hopefully in a very few years i will be following the many expats to live in LOS .. where you are largely left alone by the state.

YY, you neglect to mention that the HSBC Premier accounts you mention require, as a minimum, that customers have and maintain at least about $100,000 U.S. worth of combined deposits or loans with HSBC. Yes, those accounts also are available to U.S. folks.

If you have that amount or more with HSBC, then yes, those accounts have a nice set of benefits for international-type folks. But not everyone has, or wants to plunk down, $100,000+ with HSBC, especially when their rates are pretty miserly.

Yes thats true , although you can also pay £25 a month to get the account without the qualifying criteria. Not worth it just to get the account , but worth it if you have a busy current account with loads of transactions as it does have many other benefits (incl free travel insurance for a year)

Refused,can't think why,all paperwork asked for was given,any suggestions as to why?,it was only a tourist visa.

Not a major headache,as i will be flying back again in august,so hopefully she will be able to come then.

How long is it before she can appeal?

PST.

First she will have been given a letter stating why the visa was refused , so get her to read it to you or better still fax it to you . Then you will know.

Next she will only succeed next time if you address all the refusal points. So it could be a major headache if they are unaddressable.

Third you can't appeal a tourist visa refusal.

Sorry

I do think you guys make hard work of this charge sometimes.

Here is my guide to reducing or eliminating these charges......

1) you are a tourist visiting Thailand......

Bring cash with you (this is what i do) and thus you pay no charge (you are vulnerable to the exchange rate of course but this has always been the case) ... charge for this is NIL!!

If you really MUST use the ATM use it less often withdrawing the maximum your card will allow each time . This amount will vary but you will pay DRASTICALLY less in charges than going to the ATM every day and taking out 500 baht

2) you live in Thailand or stay for long periods.

Open a HSBC PREMIER account . With this you can transfer money from your account in the UK to your account in Thailand FREE and can then go to the branch and take it out FREE or use the ATM which when i last checked was FREE as well (although this may have now changed?)

This option will also work for those visiting Thailand who don't want to/ are too scared to, bring cash with them. I accept this only applies to UK citizens , i do not know if other countries have accounts like the HSBC premier, but i would guess they do. However other countries citizens can also bring cash or Travellers cheques with them (small charge applies to TC's encashed in Thailand... always has)

So there you are , you can either do what i do and pay no charges at all by bringing cash or going to the Bangkok HSBC , or you can use the ATM everyday and pay loads of charges. Your choice ............

Quicker...faster...take it easy my friend. I don't stress over whether someone is paying cash or with card. Both can take time.

Personally, I don't like to have copious amounts of change jangling around in my pockets.

Would the yaketytroll argue against the use of an Oyster Card? That too is an electronic payment system and there is no argument that is quicker than paying cash.

It's clear to me that even with the copious amounts of cash available to some here, they are still very unhappy people.

I certainly wouldn't allow having to wait in a queue for a ATM to upset me to the point where I would need to vent my spleen on an Internet forum.

I'm happy enough to allow people to be themselves. No need for me to dictate to them that the ONLY way to behave is my way.

Other the other hand, if I saw some bad tempered petty minded twerp in the queue behind me, I might just take my time in remembering my PIN.

Jiu-Jitsu .. again.

Look the problem here for me is the way you started your first post by attacking me as a troll. Despite all the evidence against this (look at my old posts if you like) you STILL keep repeating it . Amazing.

If you had constructed a well argued polite post i would have replied to you in detail . But you don't so i won't.

Strange how you haven't actually bothered to comment on my main point here .. if you don't like this trivial charge use the ATM less by withdrawing larger amounts. Can't see how that can be argued against... which explains Jiu-Jitsu why you haven't. !!

Try carrying some money on you one day instead of living by plastic... you might be pleasantly surprised. Quicker for you and everone else.

Now if you really want to have a SENSIBLE arguement on this go to my topic i started on the general forum and i promise i will answer your questions as long as you comment on my points too. Fair?

I have read and re-read the OP and i just don't quite get what the girl in question has done wrong here. She has fleeced you apparently (thats not an Embassy issue) for which you must be to blame , no-one else. Not nice , but whats that to do with her visa application?

As i read it , she has really upset the OP, found someone else and gone off on holiday. Happens all the time , nasty maybe but not a reason to deny a visa is it?

Listen , you would struggle to find anyone more anti the British Embassy than me , but on this one occasion , i don't see what they have done wrong. Hurts me to say it , but i don't.

yaketyak: I would like to comment on this 150 baht ATM charge..... blah, blah, blah

Lastly i will confirm again , the common sense way to avoid paying this 150 baht fee too often is stop taking out small amounts , withdraw as much as you can in one go. Simple economics eh?

We are still waiting for you to inform us about the ATM you use to withdraw 100,000 baht in a single transaction, as you claimed earlier..

Were you lying?, Troll?

Childish to keep calling me a troll when if you bothered to look at my many previous posts since i joined you will see i am not.

You see the thing about people like Jiu-Jitsu is that they were brought up to bel;ieve the world revolves around them. They cause people to be held up in the queue whilst they pay for their £1-50 bill with a credit card because they have no concept of whats happening around them . They believe they can do as they please. I was brought up to be efficient and not disturb others. I pay for things quickly and in cash holding no-one up.

Youre just plain rude Jiu-Jitsu .. and a waste of space...never amount to anything.

forgot to say i've started this discussion in the general topics forum

It won't generate more revenue for the fee-charging banks if their expat customers, including myself, cease being their customers and move our business to non-fee banks, or use non-ATM alternatives such as in-branch transactions that actually will end up costing those banks more.

But more broadly, these kinds of moves do indeed contribute to an anti-tourist, anti-foreigner impression in the country that is just about the last thing it needs right now. The Thai Bankers Assn. couldn't have been worse in their timing.

"By adopting the 150 baht fee, the Thai Bankers Assn. was obviously trying to generate more revenue for the banks...The whole thing makes no practical sense."

Of course it does, and you mentioned it in your very first sentence: the fee is to generate more revenue for the banks. With an average of 20,000 affected transactions per day, it's an extra 3 million THB/day

Yes you are right in some of your thinking here but don't you think that you and others who obviously frequently use the ATM's are making too much of this.? To think about changing your bank over a 150 baht fee is a little extreme . Imanegspurt has got it right .. just use the in branch facilities especially if you are a frequent user of ATM's.

There are so many ways to avoid paying at all if thats so important , but they do require some effort on each persons part.

Obercommando , i'm sure anyone reading this would love to have a clue as to why you need so much money virtually every day. I'm not expecting you to reveal too much personal detail , but it is a huge sum you are spending , just a hint as to how would be of interest to us all i'm sure. I spend around 4-5000 baht a day for half the month on average (but some days almost nothing ) and i have always thought i was a big spender but you are something else.

I seemed to have got embroiled in a discussion about this new ATM charge of 150 baht per time on another forum and we agreed to take it here instead.

My view on this is that it is a pretty insignificant charge and that i truly believe most people's objections are not that the charge is 150 baht but that there is a charge at all. They just don't want to pay for the service at all because it used to be free.

As an ex banker i can see that its fair there should be a charge (after all its a service allowing you to withdraw cash in another country ) and i think we have all been lucky that up to now its been free.

My advice on the other forum was that if people refrained from getting trivial sums out almost daily but instead got out the maximum they can in one go , then this charge would surely seem insignificant each month. This seemed to provoke hysteria amounst the "carry no cash with me " brigade . I have no idea (someone enlighten me ?) why people walk around both in the UK and foreigners in Thailand with next to no money on them. I always have a wallet stuffed with cash (not arrogance BTW just a fact) and credit cards which despite having them i almost never use. I am constantly amazed how people will queue for ages at an ATM and then get out just £10. Why not get out £500 and be done with it?

One poster who was sputing venom at these charges then went on to say he goes to the ATM (in thailand) almost everyday . I mean ... words fail me .

So my simple solution is ... get as much money as you can out of the ATM in one go and then you will minimise these charges to the point where they don't matter. Alternativally go into the branch and withdraw the cash .. no charge at all usually.

The only people who really suffer (if thats the right word for a trivial 150 baht charge ) in all this is those stubborn people who HAVE to go to the ATM daily and won't change their ways . But then its like those who live their lives on credit cards and don't pay back the full balance at the end of the month. They also get charged a lot but will they change ? ...never. Almost all bank charges are avoidable (i don't pay any and i'm sure millions of others are in the same boat) , not because i don't spend any money .. far from it .. but because i know how the stystem works and avoid doing what costs. Simple really.

Lastly i will confirm again , the common sense way to avoid paying this 150 baht fee too often is stop taking out small amounts , withdraw as much as you can in one go. Simple economics eh?

I use the ATM 20+ times per month and withdraw the maximum each time so it will still cost me over 3,000thb per month in charges in addition to what I already pay with my issuing bank.

Simply unacceptable.

I think this should be dealt with in another forum but its just not right for you to be using the ATM so many times. I don't see why you don't open a bank account like HSBC for example and get the money sent from the UK and then withdraw the cash in Thailand? Is this not possible for you? Certainly possible if you are in BKK. I do this when in BKK and it costs me NOTHING to send the money from the UK and NOTHING to withdraw it , although this does involve going into the branch itself..not possible for everyone i guess but works for me .

I would like to comment on this 150 baht ATM charge.

Personally i think its an annoying but very bearable charge. One poster put it well when he said (summing up in my own words here ) people don't mind spending thousands of baht a night on overpriced drinks but begrudge paying ANYTHING on an ATM charge . If the charge were 50 baht you would all still be whingeing. Its the fact that you don't want to pay anything at all thats the issue , not the 150 baht.

However a possible solution to minimise this is if you stop taking trivial amounts out and take one whacking lump out , then surely the 150 baht becomes trivial?

Part of the problem , and it applies here in the UK especially i've noticed, is that people walk around with almost nothing on them in cash. For Christs sake why?

In the UK, I always have a couple of hundred pounds in my wallet and feel naked if that drops to below 50. In Thailand i usually think between 10-20, 000 baht is about right , never letting it drop below this .So when i take money from a ATM its usually about 100,000 worth so a 150 baht charge , whilst annoying in principle , is nothing at all. But if you are amounst those who go to the ATM 25 times a week and take out 200 baht (just like the thousands who queue in the UK at ATM's for 10 minutes to withdraw a tenner and then do the same thing the next day) then i think you are overcomplicating your lives and costing yourselves unneccessarily.

Part of the problems in this modern day life is that people have been brought up to rely on credit / debit cards and lazily don't carry cash. I am the opposite , i carry cash , buy almost everything in cash , and whilst i have loads of credit cards i rarely use them even for big bills. I am driven to distraction queueing in a shop behind someone who buys £3 of goods and whips out the credit card . No wonder people have so many money problems.

To summarise ... my solution to getting round this 150 baht insignificant charge is ... carry loads of cash , withdraw rarely and in big amounts .

Problem solved ... No??

TROLL

Have you actually been to Thailand? I think if you had you would know that you cannot withdraw 100,000 baht from an ATM in one go.

Best to crawl back from whence you came eh?

I'm sure that you realise that most people's argument arises from the fact that the charges went from zero to 150 baht.

Why would this be? Why not, at best, charge the same as someone who held a local bank account? It's simple. People wish to avoid the charge because they know it's a simple money grab. Mugging without the violence.

Your rant about carry loads of cash whilst others don't, just weakens your argument further.

To Jiu-Jitsu...A completely ignorant post probably from one of the carry-no-money-on-me -go-to-the-ATM-everyday brigade. There are many here who know i am no troll (first time i've ever been called that.. many things but never Troll!!) and yes i have been to LOS about 20 odd times ... quite enough to make my observations i think.

And yes you can withdraw that amount from my account but then i have a special account so maybe thats not the norm for everyone. Nothing to stop people going into the branch and taking the money out is there? Except the ones too lazy to do so.

And no i don't accept people's anger is because the charge has gone from zero (which lets face it is too cheap) to 150 baht .. a truly insignificant figure anyway. I think its because there is a charge at all...people just don't want to pay at all and would whinge whatever the amount.

But the crucial bit of my post is that if people stopped withdrawing stupidly small amounts and took out a couple of weeks or a months money in one go then they would pay just one charge. But because most people seem allergic to carrying more than 50 baht on them at any one time they incur charges they don't have to. Its a very simple concept . My "rant" as you call it about people carrying proper cash does not weaken the arguement (God knows how you work that out .. clearly not strong on economics.. ) it strenthens it .

So Jiu-Jitsu , if you are capable of constructing a well reasoned arguement why not reply this time without the insults saying why i am wrong. Unless of course your day is spent queueing at the ATM !!

So your argument is based on you having a 'special account'?

I too have a 'special account' which ensure that I don't pays fees for withdrawing my cash anywhere in the world.

Yes, I am one of the don't carry around "large amounts of cash brigade". It doesn't make sense on any level. The longer my money stays in the bank, the more interest is obtained on it. Once it's out, no interest and much harder to keep track of your spending and much easier to 'lose'.

So, if I inconvenience someone like you who has to wait a minute longer at the till, I won't be feeling bad about it. You shouldn't either. Obviously you are not happy with yourself. I'm happy with whatever I'm doing, because I'm balanced.

If having to wait in a supermarket queue behind someone who takes a minute more because they are paying with their Debit/Credit card upsets you, you must have a really crap life.

Feel naked because you don't have money in your pocket? Develop a personality and you'll find that you won't need money to purchase your friends.

Since you write that you carry double the amount in cash in Thailand than you do in the UK, I have to conclude that you must be doing something with that extra cash.

If I'm having to wait in a queue, I'll use the time to make a new friend or call my girlfriend or.... You just seem to spend your time getting upset. Maybe it's because you are only on holiday for a couple of weeks at a time and never quite find the time to relax.

Your post is full of contradiction. You insist that people should carry "loads of cash" and not depend on debit/credit cards and then go on to say that you have "loads of credit cards". Why is that then?

You just come over to me as a smug and unpleasant kind of person.

An even more unpleasant post from Jiu -Jitsu than his last one against me . And full of CRAP. All this rubbish about losing interest.. nonsense.

He asks why i carry loads of cash (which yes i do) and yet state i have loads of credit cards (yes i do too) as if there is some contradiction there. Why ? I already stated i have loads of credit cards (as do most people it seems ) the differerance is i don't spend my life using them all the time , only when i feel i need to do so to aquire purchase protection (eg electrical goods that could break quickly) or flight tickets in case the airline goes bust etc. Why is that so unbelievable?

Jiu-Jitsu obviously is very annoyed because i criticised people who he recognised as himself. Those selfish people who hold up the queues everywhere they go by paying for everything no matter how small on cards.

Anyway i am aware this is taking the OP off topic again , so i will start up a new topic in the general topics section if it allows me too where i will be only too happy to continue this discussion about waste of space people with Jiu-Jitsu and anyone else who chooses to enter the fray.

Lastly i will confirm again , the common sense way to avoid paying this 150 baht fee too often is stop taking out small amounts , withdraw as much as you can in one go. Simple economics eh?

OK just tried and a message says i don't have permission to start a topic on this forum ... any ideas why this is so anyone?

Only moderators and admin can start topics in the News forum. Try starting a topic in General. Better yet, the 150 baht ATM fee has been discussed to death in the Jobs, Economy, Banking... Forrum. You might want to join in there.

Thanks Ovenman ... yours is what i call a good post ... constructive , informative and without sarcasm. Well done. I'm off to the right forum.

OK just tried and a message says i don't have permission to start a topic on this forum ... any ideas why this is so anyone?