yaketyak

I would like to comment on this 150 baht ATM charge.

OK....... Ever thought of posting in the correct topic

OK Chaimai ..its off topic i agree. But others before me started commenting on this within the overall topic and i chose to pick this bit to reply . You could have taken just another few seconds to give us your thoughts on this rather than just confine your reply to sarcasm.

Right ... if i can master starting a new topic here (never done this before so it may not work) i will start a thread specifically re this 150 baht charge.

I'll give it a go now .. may or may not work.

I would like to comment on this 150 baht ATM charge.

Personally i think its an annoying but very bearable charge. One poster put it well when he said (summing up in my own words here ) people don't mind spending thousands of baht a night on overpriced drinks but begrudge paying ANYTHING on an ATM charge . If the charge were 50 baht you would all still be whingeing. Its the fact that you don't want to pay anything at all thats the issue , not the 150 baht.

However a possible solution to minimise this is if you stop taking trivial amounts out and take one whacking lump out , then surely the 150 baht becomes trivial?

Part of the problem , and it applies here in the UK especially i've noticed, is that people walk around with almost nothing on them in cash. For Christs sake why?

In the UK, I always have a couple of hundred pounds in my wallet and feel naked if that drops to below 50. In Thailand i usually think between 10-20, 000 baht is about right , never letting it drop below this .So when i take money from a ATM its usually about 100,000 worth so a 150 baht charge , whilst annoying in principle , is nothing at all. But if you are amounst those who go to the ATM 25 times a week and take out 200 baht (just like the thousands who queue in the UK at ATM's for 10 minutes to withdraw a tenner and then do the same thing the next day) then i think you are overcomplicating your lives and costing yourselves unneccessarily.

Part of the problems in this modern day life is that people have been brought up to rely on credit / debit cards and lazily don't carry cash. I am the opposite , i carry cash , buy almost everything in cash , and whilst i have loads of credit cards i rarely use them even for big bills. I am driven to distraction queueing in a shop behind someone who buys £3 of goods and whips out the credit card . No wonder people have so many money problems.

To summarise ... my solution to getting round this 150 baht insignificant charge is ... carry loads of cash , withdraw rarely and in big amounts .

Problem solved ... No??

TROLL

Have you actually been to Thailand? I think if you had you would know that you cannot withdraw 100,000 baht from an ATM in one go.

Best to crawl back from whence you came eh?

I'm sure that you realise that most people's argument arises from the fact that the charges went from zero to 150 baht.

Why would this be? Why not, at best, charge the same as someone who held a local bank account? It's simple. People wish to avoid the charge because they know it's a simple money grab. Mugging without the violence.

Your rant about carry loads of cash whilst others don't, just weakens your argument further.

To Jiu-Jitsu...A completely ignorant post probably from one of the carry-no-money-on-me -go-to-the-ATM-everyday brigade. There are many here who know i am no troll (first time i've ever been called that.. many things but never Troll!!) and yes i have been to LOS about 20 odd times ... quite enough to make my observations i think.

And yes you can withdraw that amount from my account but then i have a special account so maybe thats not the norm for everyone. Nothing to stop people going into the branch and taking the money out is there? Except the ones too lazy to do so.

And no i don't accept people's anger is because the charge has gone from zero (which lets face it is too cheap) to 150 baht .. a truly insignificant figure anyway. I think its because there is a charge at all...people just don't want to pay at all and would whinge whatever the amount.

But the crucial bit of my post is that if people stopped withdrawing stupidly small amounts and took out a couple of weeks or a months money in one go then they would pay just one charge. But because most people seem allergic to carrying more than 50 baht on them at any one time they incur charges they don't have to. Its a very simple concept . My "rant" as you call it about people carrying proper cash does not weaken the arguement (God knows how you work that out .. clearly not strong on economics.. ) it strenthens it .

So Jiu-Jitsu , if you are capable of constructing a well reasoned arguement why not reply this time without the insults saying why i am wrong. Unless of course your day is spent queueing at the ATM !!

I would like to comment on this 150 baht ATM charge.

Personally i think its an annoying but very bearable charge. One poster put it well when he said (summing up in my own words here ) people don't mind spending thousands of baht a night on overpriced drinks but begrudge paying ANYTHING on an ATM charge . If the charge were 50 baht you would all still be whingeing. Its the fact that you don't want to pay anything at all thats the issue , not the 150 baht.

However a possible solution to minimise this is if you stop taking trivial amounts out and take one whacking lump out , then surely the 150 baht becomes trivial?

Part of the problem , and it applies here in the UK especially i've noticed, is that people walk around with almost nothing on them in cash. For Christs sake why?

In the UK, I always have a couple of hundred pounds in my wallet and feel naked if that drops to below 50. In Thailand i usually think between 10-20, 000 baht is about right , never letting it drop below this .So when i take money from a ATM its usually about 100,000 worth so a 150 baht charge , whilst annoying in principle , is nothing at all. But if you are amounst those who go to the ATM 25 times a week and take out 200 baht (just like the thousands who queue in the UK at ATM's for 10 minutes to withdraw a tenner and then do the same thing the next day) then i think you are overcomplicating your lives and costing yourselves unneccessarily.

Part of the problems in this modern day life is that people have been brought up to rely on credit / debit cards and lazily don't carry cash. I am the opposite , i carry cash , buy almost everything in cash , and whilst i have loads of credit cards i rarely use them even for big bills. I am driven to distraction queueing in a shop behind someone who buys £3 of goods and whips out the credit card . No wonder people have so many money problems.

To summarise ... my solution to getting round this 150 baht insignificant charge is ... carry loads of cash , withdraw rarely and in big amounts .

Problem solved ... No??

Has anyone else noticed ... whenever we read of cases of anyone being in trouble with the police / immigration in Thailand its always part of the story that they have no money.?

I have noticed this and it makes me think... why do people go to Thailand (when its known that the jails are awful) without enough readily accessable cash to buy their way out of any potential problems. ? I mean .. how absurd to go on any kind of holiday and find yourself checking in at the airport to return to your homeland with no money for unforseen eventualities.One of the things i love about Thailand is that money buys you everything... they are shameless about it and i like that. You know where you stand. So why on earth do people not carry plenty of the stuff in various forms?

Although i do sympatise with him , and think he was badly treated (and as usual out govt are worse than useless ) , i almost think he deserves a day in jail for being stupid enough to have no money when abroad.

To the OP....

actually i meant call the Embassy not the VFS office. If it were me i would have been onto them after a month , speaking to someone higher up , and getting it looked at. The delay you have suffered, without any updates , is outrageous.

But then they operate like that because they can . Considering your feelings is not part of their remit.

I think this childish man deserves to be locked up for a very long time to make an example of him.

And i think people like you are a danger to society. So he was childish... that means he goes to jail? So many posters here are so keen to throw people into jail.. do they just not think before they post? Or perhaps part of our education system should be that every child has to spend a day in jail. That way when they grow up they might avoid making stupid posts like pimframs.

Oh.. forgot to say congratulations to the OP !!

Today my wife received a letter from the UKBA (UK Border Agency) saying she has been granted British Citizenship. The only thing left to do is to attend a local ceremony and say an oath or pledge of allegience. I'm celebrating now on a second bottle of wine (so please excuse grammar and spelling).

So, to anybody else following this path it's fairly simple providing the person studies for and passes the exam and pays the fees. And before I get a load of questions asking me how etc, just go to the government websites. They are the best as they have the latest information on what to do.

Oh, and thanks to all who have helped us in the past.

Cheers,

Robin

p.s. Next step UK passport.

Congatulaions to you and moreover your wife,,,,,,,and anyone else reading this just be carefull when studying as the test is NOW only taken from the official GOVERNMENT BLUE UK BOOK so dont waste your time and money studying from ANY other book.

Having said all that I still cannot and never will accept why the bloody hel_l our UK legally married wives have to go through this humiliation to be allowed to live here with us and more to the point what bloody use it is ,, as neither I or anyone from the UK I know could pass it and amazingly we have managed to live here without this mine of useless information ( or could it be another labour tax in disguise ? ) oooooooooooooooooo shame on me for being so cynical.

I couldnt agree more i had a go at a practice test and did not get all the questions correct some were really hard, it is a bad case of overkill from the government i think.

this overkill as you stated,is done to stop undesirables into the uk.we all moan about immigrants coming in to the uk unchecked and then we complain when you want to bring a gf/wife into the Uk.The government are right in trying to reduce the amount of immigrants entering the Uk,as many will claim dole,claim child allowance etc etc.Why not stay in Thailand and have to pay for everything.

Not true to say "we all moan about immigrants coming in ..." .. i don't .. couldn't care less as it doesn't affect my life at all.

If its really the govt's aim to stop them getting benefits then why not scrap all the benefits . Come to that why not scrap them for all UK citizens as well.? There's a lot to be said for the old fashioned way .. work or die.

During my 6 day working week .. on NO benefits.. i see countless people pushing buggies past the shop on their way to yet another shopping day out , broken only by lunch in McDonalds.All paid for by my taxes of course. And i ask myself do these people EVER do anything in their lives remotly resembling work.? Do they ever contribute anything to society or do they just take take take. ? I guess we all know the answer.

But then can I blame them for simply taking advantage of a system that pays them everytime they pop out another kid ?.. probably the only hard work they ever do.

I've only read this quickly, so i may be missing something , but why don't you just ring them and ask?

I am confused by the above post; nobody is being forced to apply for a fiance visa. The OP has stated that they planned to marry and apply for settlement anyway.

One should always apply for the visa suited to one's intentions. Applying for a fiance visa when one has no intention of marrying once in the UK is a stupid thing to do and could easily lead to difficulties if one returns home and then later applies for settlement again.

In another thread the above poster advocates a 'tick box' system to decide visa applications. If such a system were in place then this applicant would still have been refused as she cannot tick all the boxes; she has no concrete reason to return.

Of course those with a brain reading my post will see that i never said anyone should get a fiancee visa and then not get married once here. I said many are looking to go for the fiancee visa when they never intended to do this originally. Naturally once here with a Fiancee visa they must of course go through with it ... hence the comment they are forced into marriage more quickly than may otherwise have happened.

As for the comment about the tick - box system , yes it may be that this particular applicant would have failed anyway, but if the criteria was crystal clear in the first place , the applicant and sponser would not have applied until they knew they could meet all requirements . Tick -box system is a fairer way to do it because it takes away the ability of the ECO to refuse those he/she regards on a personal level as undesirable , through prejudice or ignorance. The point being that ANYone should be entitled to visit the UK for say a holiday as long as they meet all the official criteria (and that includes those who the govt instructs the ECO's to keep out by refusing applications because of what the person may do for a job , rather than on the basis of the application in front of them)

As said before, once someone has no time restriction on their leave to remain then provided they satisfy all the other requirements, such as residency, then they can apply for naturalisation.

Currently one can apply for FLR again and again without limit. However, one of the areas the government is looking at is limiting the number of times one can do so. If this happens then once someone has reached the limit if they still have not satisfied the KOL requirement and so do not qualify for ILR then they will have to leave the UK.

After 2 years in the UK I cannot see why your partner has not been able to pass the test or, if his English is not up to the test, complete an ESOL with citizenship course; neither are very hard to do.

You say that the test is absurd. I agree that some of the questions are somewhat irrelevent in this day and age, but saying that an immigrant to any country should be able to communicate in the language of that country is absurd is...well, absurd!

7by7 thank you for your swift reply and its nice to have confirmed by someone so knowledgeable what i already thought to be the case.

Regarding your other comments , he has only taken the test once and failed , so is not as stupid as you imply. Main reason is that the questions are irrellevant to life in the uk (oddly enough) and it IS actually quite hard to pass as many others have observed. I never said its absurd that an immigrant shouldn't be able to communicate in the language of the country he is living in ... quite how you construed that i don't know. I said the test is absurd which it is . Also it has nothing to do with that persons ability to converse in English. I believe that my partner is actually able to converse better in English than some English people , yet this absurd test is preventing him getting his ILR , not to mention the rip-off cost of it all. Not a problem for me , but would be for some who will be rightly indignant. Another reason he hasn't yet passed is he hasn't put enough effort in i guess. This is because we are not rushing to get citizenship so we can sponge off the state. No doubt this is an important factor for many ... not for us.

Not for the first time we will never entirely agree on anything to do with immigration. I thank you nonetheless for taking the trouble to reply.

So another potential fire hazard.

Lets just hope the convicted drug takers go to jail,and they round up the sellers.Lets get the scum away from society

Self-righteous people like this poster make my blood boil. Why should drug takers go to jail? Like all human beings , they have the right to choose how they live. If they choose to go to a club and all do that , whats it to you ?

Why can't people mind their own business and let others live how they want to?

Yes , having a track record for the ECO's to see will help but don't get too confident.

A lot depends on how easily she sailed through the first application. If she was a marginal case then she may well still be marginal next time.

Because our immigration system allows so much discretion to the ECO looking at the application , and because we don't have a tick-box system, all applications are down to how the official chooses to view the case and their mood of the day.

There are many cases of the first application being successful and the next not. So whilst you can be quiety confident , you need to be just as diligent.

Hi,

i have been off this forum for so long (due to having so much else to do in life .. 24 hours a day is just not enough) that i have sort of lost the thread of latest developments.

Can i ask the learned ones here, 7by7 seems to know a fair bit (and bears a striking resemblance in his posts to my old sparring partner ) , to answer my query.

My civil partner came here in July 2006 , got married, and got FLR. Upon expiry of this in July 2008 he took , and failed , this absurd Life in the UK test. So he got another FLR. Now in July 2009 we will have lived here together for 3 years so, does that mean that if he re-takes and passes the test we can apply for and get the ILR and then immediately apply for naturalisation and thus the coveted British Passport?

I think it does but i just need someone else to say so.

Am i right in thinking that , in the unlikely event of him continuing to fail the test, that FLR will be issued again and again and that there is no point at which he will qualify for citizenship without passing it ? Even , to take an extreme example , if he were still here in 50 years?

Thanks for any light anyone can shed on this .

A couple of years ago i posted here that i thought our immigration system was wrong in that so many failed visit visa applicants are FORCED to go for the fiancee visa in order to achieve their aims... which is to get the Thai girl friend here on a visit visa. They cannot get the visit visa , like our friend on this post , so they are advised by others to go for the eaier to get fiancee visa.

Many reply saying they hadn't considered this but then go along with it . Many then get their wish.

Effectivally they have been forced to get married (fiancee visa = getting married soon afterwards) as their only alternative to getting the loved one here on any terms.

When i posted then my post was met with a lot of hostility saying i was wrong and no-one is being forced to get married bla bla bla.

However there is no doubt i was right then and am still right now.

This obsession with the Home Office about Thai overstayers working here and costing us taxpayers money seems out of proportion to me with the actual damage (if indeed there is ANY damage to us in them overstaying..i am not convinced there is) they cause. I am sure they cost far less to the taxpayer than Home Secretaries claiming £100000's in dubious second home claims.

Dammit !! I always forget something...

Re employing an agent to do this work .. forget it . Just allot some of your time to doing it right yourself and save yourself money. They have no influence with the Embassy staff .

That is unless you are one of those people not disciplined enough to fill in an application form exactly as required and read all the copious notes that go with it. If you are then get an agent!! Otherwise you really don't need one.

Do read the application criteria thoroughly.

Be careful to fill in the application form carefully ... any genuine mistakes may not seem genuine to a visa officer and will be hard to explain away. Its your responsibility to see its done properly.

Make sure you fulfill the criteria and make sure you demonstrate it with documentation.

Assuming you have the money and accomodation side sown up easily (and prove it with paperwork) then its the reason to return bit that is the last obstacle. Usually its accepted here that to emphasise your relationship and how important it is to you both that she keeps a clean immigration record is the best way to approach this.

Don't ask for too long ... she works, so make it believeable. 2/3/4/5 weeks sounds enough to me for a girl in employment.

Apart from saying she isn't a bar girl you don't say what she does do. I am not being nosy .. matters not to me , but it is of some importance. If she were the chief cashier of the local branch of Bangkok Bank then her application would be viewed differently to say someone who works part time in the local mobile phone shop. If she has a lowly job (i am not being patronising) then she will be looked at closer.

Lastly make sure she knows exactly what she has written on the application form , because if she receives a phone call from the Embassy asking a few questions they have doubts about (or because they fancy trying to trip her up) then she needs to know the answers there and then. Ditto if she is called to a full interview. Questions like your occupation , birthday , parents names... things that she should know anyway really.

Unfortunately there is not a tick box system so your application will go before a ECO who depending on their take on it , can choose to view it favourably or not. Its that simple i'm afraid so make sure you lessen your chances of failure by checking and re-checking everything and maybe also read a few of the thousands of threads here identical to yours.

Oh and lastly assuming she is successful make sure you stick to what you originally said about timescales. Although there is no proof that overstaying what you said(not technically overstaying your visa but against the spirit of the application details) by a few weeks WILL cause problems next time , it MAY , and once she has been to the UK once she will likely want to come again.

The Gent, but havent heard from him lately,

Posting rights suspended as the Gent

i think bambina (is she around still?)

Abroad studying at present, but still around occasionally

Moss

I'm rather surprised you didn't nominate me Moss !!... you know i never get involved in anything contentious..

Having read Moss's above post it has left me feeling rather humbled. (yes i can be humble )

Although i often disagree with him he is undoubtably a gent...

so hats off to you Moss .. you have diffused the situation better than i could have done

I appreciate this doesn't apply to the OP but i have wracked my brains and cannot see why the following wouldn't work...

Scenario.....

You are a Thai national living in the UK (with ILR visa in your passport) but you are also a British citizen with a UK passport (say you have got it through marriage)

You book a return flight to BKK and arrive at BKK entering with your UK passport(having obtained a non -imm O visa in advance which you then extend for a year in BKK) When you return you leave using your Thai one.

So you would have no trouble getting into or out of either the UK or Thailand at both ends.

Say 6 months later you return to Thailand and then leave before your O visa runs out using your UK passport. That way you have entered and left Thailand on two different passports (twice) and not broken any rules..... i think!!

Comments??

It depends. In this scenario, what was your previous use of the Thai passport, in particular what was the last Thai immigration arrival or departure stamp in it? For example this would not work:

-- left Thailand on Thai passport

-- entered UK on Thai or UK passport passport

-- left UK on Thai or UK passport

-- entered Thailand on UK passport

-- leave Thailand on Thai passport --> not possible because no entry stamp after the previous departure stamp.

--

Maestro

Thanks Maestro for that. Its fiendishly difficult to get ones head around the possibilities you mention... i will have a think over the weekend to see if i can come up with any other scenarios that might work.

" and with the usual handbags at dawn I will retreat and say no more."

Hopefully thats a promise he'll keep

Despite child-benefit receiving Moss taking an unusual amount of time (for him) to condescend to reply to our posts , he has astutely avoided tackling the issue here by issuing insults to all and sundry . The issue which we were quite adequately discussing before he burst in with his insults is whether its right that many genuine relationships will suffer so the govt can raise the age limit to 21 before someone can get a marriage visa .

I don't think its right . For a start what about forced marriages of people aged 21 and over? Why stop at 21.. its an arbitary figure. Why not 22? or 20? whats the differance?

Also where is there any provision for those aged under 21 who are perfectly genuine and want to come here to get married? There is no provision , they are just sidelined. I don't think thats right. Millions of British people get married aged well under 21 and their relationships are as genuine and long lasting as any other. So this is plain discrimination against one section of people so a few forced marriages of those under 21 (which for some reason is deemed worse than 21 and over.. why?) can be prevented.

So Moss i am exercising my right to say this on a public forum in an on-topic reply to the original post.

If you agree (unlikely as you never agree with me out of principle anyway) say so , if you don't.. say so. If you prefer to stay out of it ... fine. But don't make personal insulting posts PLEASE... you are better than that.

I appreciate this doesn't apply to the OP but i have wracked my brains and cannot see why the following wouldn't work...

Scenario.....

You are a Thai national living in the UK (with ILR visa in your passport) but you are also a British citizen with a UK passport (say you have got it through marriage)

You book a return flight to BKK and arrive at BKK entering with your UK passport(having obtained a non -imm O visa in advance which you then extend for a year in BKK) When you return you leave using your Thai one.

So you would have no trouble getting into or out of either the UK or Thailand at both ends.

Say 6 months later you return to Thailand and then leave before your O visa runs out using your UK passport. That way you have entered and left Thailand on two different passports (twice) and not broken any rules..... i think!!

Comments??

Yes i agree with that. I have accompanied many friends to the French Embassy in BKK and you fill the form in , they tell you EXACTLY what they want , (travel insurance is one thing they insist on), very simple things , you come back in a few days and pick up the visa.

I have found them to be very helpful

And how is the majority of this thread related to Immigration apart from the first post and certain subsequent responses.

You are all throwing in opinions that are neither helpful, nor have any bearing on the Gov't decision making ability, you are just blustering and grand standing to the detriment of this sub-forum as a whole.

Add in the obviously ignorant statements that are so puirile in nature that I find it hard to comprehend.

Moss

Well your contribution to it is hardly valuable is it? ONE post critiscising others who have bothered to reply . And most of the replies are on-topic... we have discussed whether we approve or not and our reasons for it. Thats called on-topic. You didn't contribute at all.

Yes it drifted a LITTLE off topic as most threads do including many you have been involved in.

I expect my comment on not paying people to have kids bothered you .. i wonder if you are one of the recipients of child benefit??.. hence your annoyance!! Might explain your sulky post.

Really Moss , i expected more from a seasoned Thaivisa player as you.