jandtaa

hi Smithson

avocados are one of the plants covered in the latest link I've posted on the organic forum-"organic fruit and veg from the tropics" theres also info on them here

subtropical fruits where I am constantly uploading all my research documents (if you want to download the pdf's from this source ignore the download button (it isn't working for me at the present but then again I'm having general computer issues) and click on the "more" button and choose save document) and you will find both well covered at this link as well as almost every other tropical fruit fruits for a warm climate

hope these links are of some assistance !

cheers Jandtaa

Hi folks

Organic fruit and vegetables from the tropics

just came across this pdf published by the UN which gives a good overview of organic farming in the tropics everything from the basic philosophy, soil fertility and nutrient management, integrated pest control and weed management, water conservation/irrigation as well as specific methods for growing ; citrus,coconut,mango,guava,pineapple,lychee,banana,beans,lettuce,tomato,peppers,

aubergine,cucumber,asparagus,sweetcorn etc...etc. organically. A great starting point for newbies or folks considering going organic as well as more indepth info for the more experienced grower !! For example we all know worms are good for the soil but did you know " Their excrements contain 5x more nitrogen, 7x more phosphate, 11x more potash and 2x more magnesia and calcium than normal earth." ?? 

Happy reading  !!

Jandtaa

I have posed this question a few times on the forum but never had an answer,ive searched the Net with many different words and till cant find the answer, basically its about ants, and the question is

Are ants bad for fruit trees and do they keep natural polinaters away?

Thanks for any links and advice, Cheers, Lickey..

Hi Lickey

friend or foe indeed ??

just googled "weaver ant" and there appears to be both pros and cons to having their colonies in your orchards !! Indeed it would appear they have been used as a biological control in Asia for some considerable time although one downside is that they actively farm scale and aphids for their honeydew .Too many links to sort through and post here (sorry I'm a little pushed for time). Hope this is of help, happy "googling" and if you come across any gems please post the links

cheers Jandtaa 

Thanks for your quick reply Gerd !! Certainly some food for thought as it were !!

this site is under construction but looks to be where it's at in regard to organic certification A.C.T

also came across this site which shows organic products already being marketed from a small farm in Ratchaburi Organic Thai Farm

cheers all Jandtaa

IssanAussie

just been looking out the recipes and came across the excellent DVD "Pig in a day" by the river cottage team (thought I'd left it in the U.K.) - covers all processes of butchering a pig, sausages and salamis, Hams and bacon, Prime joints, brawn they use everything apart from the squeal !! Whilst Hugh may not be everyones cup of tea his butcher is proper old school !! great tips on tools and techniques i.e. butchers knots and the black art of tying "links" of sausages. Forgot to mention the need for some sugar in your mix to help with caramelisation of your bangers. Also found a recipe from Heston Blumenthal in my collection claiming to be "the perfect banger". PM me your address and I'll burn you a copy of the DVD and send it to you if you're interested !!

regards Jandtaa

Why you no good so and so are you "hogging" my bacon??? Don't try to butter him up with your recipes as I refused the photos due to the fact that I knew I couldn't control myself and I'm a cililized man and don't want to get in a butcher war with anybody. Take advantage of my abscence (sp??) and enjoy your glutony (sp?? screw spellcheck) because Fruity is going to get me some laying hens and I'll pelt you with fresh eggs (you don't warrant the time to make them rotten). And yes the shoulder really does make excellent sausage and salami and coppa too if you have the recipes. Chke Dee and enjoy enjoy enjoy. me

Hove ouy bean hicting the blottle recntly FF ore iss yore speelchck treely knacrd lol !! ?? Chuck as many fresh eggs my way as you can but only 3 at a time as that is the most I can juggle ! I'll share me recipes for what they're worth with any like minded individual Got a couple of nice ones for boozy bangers if you're interested (can't seem to make lao kao or  beer chang work though... just not the same as some good old English bitter or a drop of Guinness!!) and make a decent version of "sai ouah"-Chiang Mai sausage gently smoked over coconut husks and then barbecued.. great with a few cold'ns !! If you continue to cast nasturtiums upon my character re. accusations of gluttony I shall have  no other recourse than to challenge you to a good old fashioned duel !! It will be my perogative to choose the weapons of your destruction.. soggy bits of butchered pig and definitely no eggs, freerange and tasty though they may be !! you will be permitted to choose the location McDonalds and other multinational chains excluded !! on the otherhand if you're ever in the area we could just get together and put the world to rights over a few beers some barbecued sausage and if IssanAussie joins the party some decent bacon !!

yours droolingly Jandtaa ! p.s. lets try to keep this cililised !!  

Hi to all you organic farmers, ive had a pm from Soundman [mod] saying if an organic farming thread generates enough interest he will pin it for us,

And if its big perhaps a sub-forum, although its a head ache for the TV people to do,,

Ive seen many posts about organic methods and i follow them,ive posted a few myself about composting,

I was picking Tamarind yesterday, it was very quiet on our hillside farm, i sat down for a rest, then a bird started singing, others joined in, i hadnt heard this for 2 years, why? because chemicals have been banned since last November, then i go to water the salad gardens, the makua we put in last november is still 6in high, because of herbicide and its mis-use, i had many ideas for the salad beds this year, but if weeds wont grow, what will?? now im going to have to wait till the rains clean the soil,

opps sorry, ive gone on a bit,

But please, all you gardeners/farmers who want to share ideas and solutions, add your vote here,

Thanks all, Lickey..

Hi farmers,

I am working as a GM for a food importing company here in Thailand, we are serving the high end hotels and restaurants.

I can tell you there's a huge demand for all organic products here.

Gerd

Welcome to the organic forum ! What a coincidence I was only mentioning your name to fellow Thaivisa member IssanAussie earlier today re. sausage making !!  checked out your posts and am glad my memory hasn't totally deserted me !! I know it's off topic but can you let us know about casings and machinery etc.. I'm based in Chiang Rai . So down to business what should all us organic farmers/market gardeners here in LOS be growing to fill the needs of the local market and make a few quid in the process ?? Do your company contract growers here or strictly deal in imports ?? Is there any certification process for organic farmers here in Thailand that you are aware of ?? I know its your first visit to the organic forum and I'm bombarding you with questions..get used to it my friend its the only way to learn, asking questions of people who are working at the "coal face" as it were !! Where are you importing from ?? Best sellers ?? Any Info most welcome as I'm sure It would work out cheaper for you to have products grown/raised here in the Kingdom to your specs rather than importing, a no brainer really !! Surely between us (visitors of the organic forum that is.. Ive always liked the Idea of farmers co-ops myself ) we could work something out !! Either way let us know any info you have, PM us about all you know about sausages and obviously drop in any time to check out what harebrained schemes us organicites (dont believe thats a real word !!) are cooking up !!

highest regards Jandtaa

Hi smithson

Good idea !! can you give us some more detail ?? Is your pond ornamental or for fish production ? How many concrete rings make up up your biological filter system ?? What size substrate are you using ? I think the coconut mats are an inspired idea especially as it will make cleaning the topmost layer of substrate (are you using sand by any chance ?) that much easier to clean !! With the added benefit of creating nutrient rich mulch mats , pure genius !! Although I'm a little way off yet (currently putting in the basic infrastructure on a 2 rai plot ) I've as always been doing my research, presently into slow sand and other biological filter systems (so expect some new links soon) , Ideally I would like to set up some sort of aquaponic system where the nutrient rich water from fish tanks/ponds provides nutrients for "hydroponically" grown vegetable crops whilst the plants act as a biological filter cleaning the fish tanks and maintaining a balanced ph. "Slowly, slowly catchee monkey !". Do you have any similar system set up for treating your "grey" water from the house ?? Any info rough sketches, photos etc. and further enlightenment most appreciated !!

cheers Jandtaa     

IssanAussie

just been looking out the recipes and came across the excellent DVD "Pig in a day" by the river cottage team (thought I'd left it in the U.K.) - covers all processes of butchering a pig, sausages and salamis, Hams and bacon, Prime joints, brawn they use everything apart from the squeal !! Whilst Hugh may not be everyones cup of tea his butcher is proper old school !! great tips on tools and techniques i.e. butchers knots and the black art of tying "links" of sausages. Forgot to mention the need for some sugar in your mix to help with caramelisation of your bangers. Also found a recipe from Heston Blumenthal in my collection claiming to be "the perfect banger". PM me your address and I'll burn you a copy of the DVD and send it to you if you're interested !!

regards Jandtaa

Issanaussie

I also have been salivating over the pics !! although personally I prefer a little more fat. Whats your problem getting your sausagemeat into skins ?? What skins are you using ? I've used both fresh casings taken from the freshly slaughtered pig ( too much hassle turning them inside out and scraping off the lining ) as well as artificial casings sent from the U.K. Would love to get some salted casings as I use these in the U.k. for my sausage making. If its a question of stuffing the skins I believe there's a thread on here, I can't remember precisely where, where a guy had a source for machines and casings for that matter in Chiang Mai, I think his name was Thaigerd. For me personally I cant justify the outlay as It's for home consumption only and have made my own "sausage gun" from blue pvc piping, its a bit heath robinson and takes two people to do the stuffing so I'm working on a mark 2 model !! What cut are you using ? I like to use the shoulder as I find It usually has the correct fat to meat ratio although sometimes I add some belly pork for some additional sizzle in the pan (no such thing as a good low fat sausage) !! reckon sage should grow here although grown from seed in the U.k. its fairly slow to establish I've been using dried for my "breakfast" variety. What filler are you using rusk or breadcrumb ?? I've found the dried "panko" style breadcrumbs give a good texture ( its only a small percentage of the final mix but IMHO 100% pork gives just too much "bite"). Seasoning wise most important is the salt content and I prefer freshly ground pepper for some "heat" also a touch of mace and the secret ingredient garam massala (not enough to give a curried flavour but it really enhances the "meatiness" of the sausage).hel_l P.M. me If you want some recipes !!

Back to the bacon when does it go on sale !! Put me down for a pack or two  !! should go great in a lightly toasted sandwich of my home baked bread with some homegrown lettuce and toms and lashings of mayo !! Be sure to let us know if you crack the smoking (totally agree with you about chemical smoking  ) !!

Keep up the good work !! You must be as happy as a pig in shit !!

Take it easy Jandtaa

If the seeds came from your local seed merchant or from a tomato bought from the local market they're most likely to be the Roma variety (plum tomato) grown mainly for processing but sold here in LOS as a salad tomato. This is a bush tom i.e determinate variety and you shouldn't remove the side shoots.I grow mine through a bamboo frame as they can have a bit of a sprawling nature and the grid of bamboo helps support the plants and keep the fruits off the ground.I use mine to make pasta sauce and tomato puree. On the other hand you say they are "trying to grow" does this mean they have self seeded possibly from your compost ( happens to me most years as even the heat of my heap doesn't appear to kill the seeds of the cherry toms my wife likes to put in her somtham !! ) these grow like weeds I never feed them and they are still abundant producers. They have much smaller leaves than the larger toms but also require no removal of the side shoots. Also they're no where near as sweet as commercial cherry toms with a much lower Brix value but will keep your missus happy !!

Happy growing Jandtaa

Hi Jandtaa.

That's a funny looking tomato plant in your profile pic.

Ha Ha !! It's been genetically modified to grow like a lettuce !!

I grow 15 varieties of lettuce back in the U.K. (when I'm there for 6 months of the year) both as baby leaf and full head production on a commercial basis' supplying local restaurants and the village farm shop . The beauty in the photo is an Australian giant yellow leaf which I trialled last summer.also grow about 70 other varieties of veg for home consumption toms being one of them. 

all the best Jandtaa

If the seeds came from your local seed merchant or from a tomato bought from the local market they're most likely to be the Roma variety (plum tomato) grown mainly for processing but sold here in LOS as a salad tomato. This is a bush tom i.e determinate variety and you shouldn't remove the side shoots.I grow mine through a bamboo frame as they can have a bit of a sprawling nature and the grid of bamboo helps support the plants and keep the fruits off the ground.I use mine to make pasta sauce and tomato puree. On the other hand you say they are "trying to grow" does this mean they have self seeded possibly from your compost ( happens to me most years as even the heat of my heap doesn't appear to kill the seeds of the cherry toms my wife likes to put in her somtham !! ) these grow like weeds I never feed them and they are still abundant producers. They have much smaller leaves than the larger toms but also require no removal of the side shoots. Also they're no where near as sweet as commercial cherry toms with a much lower Brix value but will keep your missus happy !!

Happy growing Jandtaa

Lickey

Excellent news on the chickens !! Mmm.... home grown eggs I can almost taste them !! My neighbour in England runs a small freerange organic flock and boy are they some tasty eggs !! Should as you say be a great way to clear the beds of insects and get some nitrogen into the soil !! How big will the actual house be compared to the fenced area ( how many people will it take to move it ) and what are you thinking in terms of time for rotation? Do you reckon it will work out at 2 months per rotation ? That would be really neat if you can achieve a yearly cycle ! How long do you plan to rest the beds between moving the chickens off and planting to allow the nitrogen to break down ? Will you be giving supplementary feed, if so what ? Do you grow your own chicken feed ? Be sure to let us all know how the project works out !! I hope to do similar in the future possibly with a mandala garden and geodesic dome made from pvc piping !!

Guano !! Would love to get me hands on some of that shit !! Any idea of the source cost per bag ??

regards Jandtaa

Me again !! taking a day off today so thought I'd tidy up my "paperwork" and post some hopefully useful links and docs !! Heres the cover of a book I picked up at the Thai bookshop in the BigC mall in Chiang Rai a couple of years ago. It's all about using EM to compost and produce fertiliser with a view to selling the results. Has a load of recipes with detailed N-P-K values as well as trace elements and PH as well as growth stimulaters and a section on rhizobium innocculation. Obviously its all in Thai and I'm struggling to translate it all as I only have fairly basic reading skills (If anyone can help I'll scan it to a PDF and upload it !! ) but for 210 baht I think its a bargain and if you have access to an English speaking Thai could prove useful even If its just to get your workers to understand the lines you're working along.

Also check out my latest post in the pinned thread-organic farming for links to info and recipes on making the aforementioned bokashi and other EM related info.

cheers Jandtaa

APNAN Effective Micro-organisms handbook

have a gander at this PDF its password protected so I cannot upload it to my usual site. I reckon this is as good a document as you can find for information on EM and it was produced as a joint project between Japan (where EM originated) and Thailand (where it is being put into action at the Saraburi farm toxin free farm further info on saraburi farm) so it is country specific as it were. Loads of recipes and methodology for using EM in a variety of senarios including making Bokashi, insecticides, crop production, orchards, animal rearing and mushroom growing. I've also just got round to uploading another bunch of docs here jandtaa's farming related documents including some other info on EM. I recommend checking out the "Indigineous micro-organisms" doc, this is the method and recipes I have been brewing up for the last couple of years !! I've also uploaded a recipe for galingal spray.So have a good read and get brewing lads and lasses !!!

Lets get rid of those nasty 'cides cheers Jandtaa

Daffy D

jandtaa's farming related documents

heres some info on growing toms that I've collected over the years hope its of use

good luck Jandtaa

well I guess it's time the organic folks piped up then  !!

I have nothing against non-organic methods of market gardening/ farming after all at the end of the day plants can only take up their nutrients as pure chemical elements no matter what the inputs!! I think that while chemical inputs as far as fertiliser go ,it's up to the individual and if it's a quick fix for a commercial gain go for it, pesticides and herbicides that are non organic I don't personally agree with !! I personally am thinking longterm and it's well known  that chemical fertiliser over a period of time will leave your soil sterile i.e."dead" and reliant on further chemical input  so have been investigating alternative methods. Sure it's a much slower approach (sometimes I just wanna crack on and get things really going !!) but in the longterm I feel its a much more natural and healthy way of growing our food. Also I believe that we cannot ignore the "peak Oil crisis" what are we gonna put on our dead soil when no chemical fertilisers are available ?? What legacy are we gonna leave behind for our kids ?? currently the U.k. my home country has only 150'000 farmers average age of 60 and is a net importer of food !! This is simply not sustainable and an alternative must be found !! Unfortunately organics cannot give definitive answers (i.e. precise formulations that mean anyone with a modicum of intelligence can grow his chosen crop by numbers) , it would appear to be be an art as much as a science, I believe it's simply a case of observing nature, working with it as opposed to against it and in the case of permaculture speeding up the natural processes to make it commercially viable. I also believe that both organic and non organic farmers should work together to safeguard livelyhoods as well as the overall integratory of the food we eat !!

None of the above helps the original OP in anyway but like a wily carp I've suddenly fallen for the bait !! sorry rice555 !I've read many of your posts over the last few years and have always found them most informative. Give us a chance and you will find I'm certainly no "Chaowna" who from his posts came across like an organic Jehovas witness constantly banging on your door trying to force his "almighty googleness" down your throat ! I'm also looking into aquaponics and organoponics so I'm no Luddite just a forward thinking bloke !! Hopefully we can all learn from each other !!

Back to the OP you could try looking into bokashi-fermented kitchen waste

and for what its worth ( I learnt it from a non organic commercial grower ) when the seedlings have produced their first true leaves re-pot them burying them in the new potting medium right up to the base of the leaves, tomato can produce roots along their entire stem, if you have started in a 3' pot repeat this a couple of times until final potting or planting out in the ground and you should see a significant gain in yield !!  

cheers all Jandtaa

Did my A-Level Biology "dissertation" using the hypothesis of "worms increase the humus content of soil and therefore affect it's P.H"

It's nearly twenty years since but I remember continually harrassing lab techs for the use of the autoclave (substitute microwave) to dessicate my samples and using Lithmus paper to test the P.H (subsitute aquarium test kit). So yet again M.F. you're spot on with your advice !! I believe when you mention sterile water you are referring to distilled water (the same that is purchased to top up your vehicle battery or available for free when you empty your steam kettle i.e it's P.H. neutral.)

P.S I neither became a biologist nor a chemist ( also studied that at A-level ) but an humble chef !! but never forgot the lessons I learnt though , two totally facsinating subjects which I know help me in my day to day job as well as being a jumpstart for my current project in Thailand !!

cheers Jandtaa

hope these may be of some use if you decide to pursue the matter

Jandtaa

permaculture northern Thailand

nature farming sara buri

more info on Saraburi nature farm

permaculture northern Thailand

nature farming Saraburi

further info on Saraburi nature farm

couple of interesting looking places !! anyone been ??

p.s. Turns out the mother-in-law stuffed her matresses with Kapok from what I can understand so sorry no help there !!

forage pasture ( including lowland paddy field)for Thailand

don't know how useful this info is just part of my collection of pdf's on farming in los and not what I'm into at the moment

62, Jitavej Khonkaen Hospital 169 Moo4, Chatapadung Rd., Muang, Khon Kaen 40000; tel (043) 227422; fax (043) 224722,jitavej khonkaen psychiatric hospital thai language website

Maybe try this place the spelling of the name is different on their website but thats becuse of method of romanisation they use. Apparently the top spot in Thailand for pschiatric disorders and probably a dam_n site better than your local clinic just dishing out pills willy nilly !!

chok dee na !!

Jandtaa

$30.00 to get a tooth pulled ? You got ripped off , definately a Farang in Thailand , most I paid was 250BAHT in Rangsit and never felt a thing , the dentist was Chinese .

was the appointment at "two-thirty" by any chance ?? 

Tricky problem !! Have experienced similar myself with a couple of the wifes family ! I agree with UbonJoe that lao kao probably plays a large part of the problem even if there are underlying mental problems, one brother in law would go off on lao kao benders and then come home assault his wife and teenage kids. I followed the usual advice and tried not to get involved even though I felt I should. The situation continued for a couple of years until one day when no other family members were about to intervene the guy tried to attack his son with a machete !! he was off his box and I managed to disarm him fairly easily, I then stood back and let them go at it, only pulling the son off when it looked like he was gonna beat his old man to death. Trouble was in His deluded brain I was the one that caused his loss of face and it became personal ( and boy can Thais hold a grudge!! ). The situation simmered on , constant bitching about me and my wife ( why didn' I help them all out financially etc ) to the rest of the family and anyone else who would listen. Water off a ducks back to me but causing a problem for my wife who really didn't want to fall out with her sister. I tried talking to him with my wife translating in a very similar way to Hans but he wouldn't give me the time of day. It all came to a head at a family party when he accused my missus of being a whore and told me I was a stupid buffalo. I'd had a few too many to drink so just walked away but the next morning when he was laughing about it with his mates I literally picked him up by his throat and shook him senseless . This was a guy that liked picking fights (always at it with some poor defenceless bloke in the village after too much lao kao) he knew he could win, a classic bully, and he sure didn't like a taste of his own medicine !!

I worried about the inevitable fallout all day but that evening family and other villagers turned up bearing beers, all with a story to tell of how he was a "bad' bad man!

I sure didn't feel like a hero and I think a lot of their reaction was more down to a Thai trait of always siding with a winner but some of them seemed truly grateful. BIL sulked around friendless for a bit but we had another chat with him urging him to slow down on the lao kao and this time he did seem to listen (could be something to do with the fact I threatened to rip his head off !! although I not sure the missus translated that bit ) and we now live in an albeit somewhat uneasy truce !!

At around the same time ( I like to call it my period of adjustment/ acceptment) I was also having problems with a nephew. He also had a problem with the old lao kao as well as ganja smoking and "ya ba"- amphetamine abuse ( something else you might like to consider as a possible cause of the problem ). He had recently been discharged from the army and considered himself a real hardman and a bit of a gangster (well known to the local police)!! After several incidents (he threatened me with a machete, attacked my best mate at my wedding causing a mass brawl and a premature end to the celebrations etc..) I lost my patience when he attacked my wife with the old hair pulling trick !! To me my wife is sacrocent and NO fuc_ker touches her no matter how well she maybe able to defend herself (she happens to be 5' nothing and weighs 46 kilo so not very well). I managed to get in a couple of good jabs and an overhand right which sat him on his arse before the family pulled me off !! Now I'm no fighter although at 6'2" and 90 kilo I certainly have an advantage over most Thai males! It was lucky the family was there as my blood was boiling, the adrenaline had kicked in and I might well of killed him!!

He roared off on his motorbike claiming he was gonna get his gun, somewhat worrying, and someone called the police. They showed up about 10 minutes later having arrested him, turned out it was a blank firing pistol. I said I didn't want to press charges and they came up with the solution that if he came back to the house the women, and only the women mind, of the village could beat him with sticks until he bled !! I kid you not TIT afterall !! The postscript to this little saga is somewhat sadder as about a month later he was arrested for raping a 14 year old girl. This was sorted out by some well to do distant relations in the usual manner a little teamoney for the police and financial compensation for the poor girls family !! He was then sent away to keep his head down in Bangkok where a job was arranged as a delivery driver for him. Last year he suffered a near fatal industrial accident crushing his trachea ( I tell the wife its a classic case of Karmma ) . The upside of the story is feeling lucky to be alive he has become a monk and renounced his old ways and while he's not on my christmas card just yet we do sit down and talk albeit him through a surgically implanted tube in his neck !! Afterall I do recognise that his behaviour was largely a result of his addictions and he is accepting personal responsibility for it.

Just thought I'd share my own experiences with you. Please take from them whatever you will as I am not condoning physical violence and it is possible that I could of handled either of the above instances in a different manner. If you want to try further mediation with the guy I would agree you use the "pu yai baan" as suggested by Onni4me. I used ours in a recent boundary dispute and found him to be most helpful as well as impartial. It wouldn't hurt anyway to make him aware of the situation if he isn't already!!

Chok dee na !! truly hope you resolve what is surely a most unpleasant situation.

p.s. sorry I've rambled on somewhat but boy does it feel good to get that lot off my chest!!

p.p.s. If he touches your wife again kick the fuc_kers teeth down his throat !! (if you"re worried about him fighting back I suggest you do it whilst he's sleeping off a heavy session !! or give us a bell and I'll come and lend you a hand (or maybe a boot!).Can't stand violence against women, there is NO excuse!!

Jandtaa

took me so long to type that lot you've posted again sounds like paranoid schizophrenia exacerbated by the use although not necessarily caused by ganja. Medical help the only solution however difficult it maybe to administer,look into if it is possible to have him sectioned.