KamnanT

Has his immigration office actually asked your friend for a copy of the tabien baan (house registration)? That would be unusual, as your friend won't be listed in the tabien baan and therefore it isn't proof of his address. Would a copy of the lease agreement be sufficient proof?

My understanding is that even under the "Family" category, they need to see proof of local employment income and (more importantly) income taxes paid for a period of three years. The independently wealthy need not apply, it would appear.

I assume that the consultant's fees were paid to you because you rendered some service to the company - that requires a work permit. Even uncompensated work requires a work permit (e.g. being a director of a company with bank signatory powers requires a work permit, even if no compensation is received).

Unfortunately, the answer is no. A minimum of 3 years of unbroken residence on a Non-Immigrant visa (e.g. initial visa plus extensions of stay totaling three years before the date of application) plus 3 years of tax returns is a principle requirement under the "Business/Employment" category.

Your lawyer was correct about the dividends - there is no requirement to have a work permit to receive dividends from a Thai company - but he was wrong about the consultant's fees. And dividends alone will not be sufficient to support an application for permanent residence.

One question: When I get the PR, then I Must have my name in a tabien baan. Good, that will be on my young daughers book. Now, can I be Chao Baan too????

This could be important actually because I don't expect the relationship with the mother to last forever and if I am Chao Baan, then I can legally kick the mother out of the house… Sounds horrible, I will of course try everything I can before doing that

As Dork said, we had one member who apparently reads Thai and was politely stubborn at the District Office and managed to become the jao baan despite their objections. But he was replying to another member who had been told this was impossible. I think it will depend on the people at the District Office you deal with. I'm doubtful they will let you be the jao baan of a house owned by someone else, but they might if it's a condominium in your own name.

I was granted PR in the last batch approved (December 2005 applications) and 6 months later bought a condominium. No objections at all at Vadhana District Office to my being the jao baan.

I must admit, after 8 years in Thailand I remain confused about the restrictions on outbound funds transfers. Inbound transfer are unlimited, but depending on who you ask, you get different versions of the outbound transfer limits.

For example, if you wish to be able to transfer money to a foreign bank account using Bangkok Bank's internet banking service (Bualuang iBanking), you need to be able to demonstrate one of the following before they will authorise this capability:

1) That the funds are your employment income that you are transferring overseas (prove with an employment letter from work), or

2) That the funds are to pay the education fees of a family member (show invoice and evidence of family member's overseas visa status), or

3) That the funds are to support relatives living permanently overseas (show proof of their permanent resident status in another country).

Note that justifications (2) and (3) are available only to Thai nationals, so for foreigners, remittance of salary appears to be the only justification acceptable.

Searches for relevant governing legislation seem to indicate that the Exchange Control Act (B.E. 2485) and associated ministerial regulations cover this area. A summary found on eThailand.com includes the following paragraph:

"Capital Transfers by Thai Residents

Direct foreign investments by Thai residents or lending to their affiliated companies abroad not exceeding US$10 million yearly do not require authorization. The remittances to Thai emigrants permanently residing abroad are allowed up to US$1 million per person yearly provided that funds are derived from their own personal assets or inheritance. The remittances to relatives permanently residing outside Thailand are also allowed up to US$100,000 per person yearly. Any amount above this limit, permission must be obtained from the Bank of Thailand. Buying immovable assets or securities abroad also requires approval from the Bank of Thailand."

I would be very interested in the experiences of others who have tried to transfer non-trivial sums out of Thailand without one of the justifications above.

I guess there are only two choices. One is to get yourself put on a friend's tabien baan and the other is to buy a condo.

Thanks. So there is no problem using a friend's TB?

Can I or he face any difficulties?

I had the same problem - landlord flatly refused to have me on the tabien baan for the apartment I rented from her. I'm guessing she wasn't declaring all (any?) of the income from her rental activities and the last thing she wanted was unnecessary interaction with government offices. A work colleague agreed to put me on his tabien baan, which was a pretty nice gesture considering he had to come to the amphur office with me and be "less than honest" when asked by the official there if I really lived at that address with my wife and two kids! Six months after receiving my PR, I closed on my own condo and we were transferred across to the new tabien baan.

In practice, a significant percentage of the population of Thailand is not living at their registered address (everyone living in rented accommodation, for example), so I would have thought there is little downside to "jao baan" (head of household) who permits you to use their tabien baan. The only potentially awkward part is the registration process at the amphur.

They say the number grouping format (X – XXXX – XXXXX – XX - X) and the number '8' prefix (8 – XXXX – XXXXX – XX - X) is for Thai nationals only and that foreigners are issued something different.

ID numbers for Thai nationals begin with '3'. I believe the '8' prefix is for permanent residents.

2 more questions

What happened with the 50,000 tea money requested a couple of pages back? Did anyone actually have to pay?

I have heard about room 301 at Suan Plu for ages, now with the move to Cheang Wattana, what's the room number?

Most importantly, is the staff the same?

Thanks

Mikey

I was out at Chaengwattana on Monday to get my Non-Quota Immigrant visa and Resident Certificate endorsement (I was a successful 2005 applicant). There are no individual rooms in the new office layout, but the Permanent Resident functions are all performed in Section "E". Staff are all the same crew from Suan Phlu.

So if immigration won't transfer the visa to the new passport and the embassy marks the old passport as void (presumably because I have been issues with a new passport), are you saying I can do a border run holding both passports and they will stamp in my new passport another three month, regardless of any of the passport pages not actually holding any visa details? Just doesn't sound like they would do that.

Here's another way to think of this situation that might clarify. Visas are issued by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs via embassies, consulates and honorary consulates outside of Thailand. Permission to Stay and extensions of permission to stay are granted by Immigration Officers inside Thailand representing the Royal Thai Police Immigration Bureau, which falls under the Interior Ministry. Their respective domains are exclusive: MOFA can't grant Permission to Stay (or extensions thereof) and Interior can't issue visas. So your friendly Immigration Officer cannot issue visas and doesn't even have any visa stamps in his/her stamp collection. All he or she can do is transfer your entry stamp (your initial "permission to stay") and any extension of permission to stay to a new passport.

I've entered and left many times with two passports - one cancelled one with a valid visa and one current one. Most of the time, the officer just stamps the current passport as usual. Occasionally, they will make a small handwritten note next to the entry/exit stamp saying "Original XXX type visa in passport no. X123456". Once, the guy wrote a novella next to the entry stamp, which was a bit of a pain because every subsequent Immigration Officer felt compelled to read it and think for 15 minutes. Not infrequently, the Officer will need to consult with a supervisor to determine what to do, but the answer has always been the same: no problem, just stamp him in/out on the new passport.

1.Jetstar promotes itself on Cheap flights. What did you expect for something that sells for around 2600 baht roundtrip?

Well, I've travelled on other low cost airlines like Air Asia and Tiger Air, and they are generally reliable. When my first flight was delayed, I was kinda pissed off but brushed it off as one-off bad luck. The delay in return flight just 5 days later can only suggest operational issues with Jetstar. The only other time I've delays of 3+ hours was more 20years ago with a Quantas flight... i refused to fly with them after that too

I've had the opposite experience - multiple delayed departures and cancellations with Thai AirAsia (both internationally and domestically in Thailand), very good on time performance with JetStar. But as the other posters have stated if you really must be there on time, spend a few extra baht and go on SQ/TH/CX/etc. JetStar, AirAsia and Tiger are for leisure trips where a few hours here or there doesn't make a huge difference.

As far as I know their visa status was never an issue when enrolling the kids in a private international school in a town with a substantial expat community in Thailand, but if you want I could ask them for you.

My children are both enrolled in an international school in Bangkok and both were required to show a valid Non-Immigrant "O" or "ED" visa prior to their first day of classes.

It's not uncommon at many Immigration offices for "facilitation payments" to be appreciated or even expected. I have dealt only with Suan Phlu and they appear to be less corrupt than the office you mention, but on one recent occasion it was made clear that a facilitation payment would turn a one month processing wait into one week. I have never experienced service denial (e.g. "Pay me or it won't happen"), just service degradation (e.g. "Up to you...but this could take some time").

Both Embassies. My son was born in Thailand and his birth was registered at the local amphur, at the Australian Embassy (mine) and the Japanese Embassy (my wife's). As neither myself nor my wife was a Thai citizen or a permanent resident of Thailand at the time of his birth, he is not a Thai citizen by birth. Interestingly, if we had both been permanent residents on the day he was born, he would be a Thai citizen.

The Non-Immigrant O-A visa (retirement visa) is the right way to go if you're not planning on working in Thailand. While this visa is only valid for a year, annual extensions of stay are relatively easy to obtain as long as one can satisfy the income requirements. One thing to keep in mind is that Thai Immigration does revise the criteria for extensions of stay on a regular basis and it's a fairly safe bet that the income requirement will tend to rise over time.

But the best advice given so far is to spend some time in Thailand before abandoning your life in SA. As with any country, long-term residence is very different to a beach holiday and just because you had a great time for a week or two on the beach doesn't necessarily mean you'll have as much fun residing here.

Yep. I just had someone call the amphur. It seems the meticulous individual who interrogated me for an hour (and even asked my blood type) screwed up. He forgot to have my details printed in the book. So, back to the amphur with my landlady...

You have a very cooperative landlady. Mine flatly refused to have my family added to the tabien baan of the apartment we rented from her. She said (not surprisingly) that she had never heard of a foreigner being on a tabien baan and was positive it wasn't possible. My guess is the real reason was that she wasn't declaring the rental income on her taxes and wanted to avoid any unnecessary interaction with the government in case someone put two and two together.

In the end a friend volunteered his tabien baan to enable us to complete the PR process. Six months later I bought our own condo and transferred the family across to that blue book.

Sorry - my bad. I mis-read the OPs last post. You don't have a multi-entry Non-Immigrant "B", you have a single entry Non-Immigrant "B" with a multiple entry re-entry permit. Lite Beer and Ubonjoe are correct as always: your single entry Non-Immigrant "B" is no longer a valid "permission to enter" (as you've used the single entry already) and the re-entry permit is simply keeping alive your last 90-day "permission to stay". Which expires on April 28th. Leave the "visa number" space on the entry form blank and point out to the immigration officer that you want a 30-day visa exempt entry.

I am confused. Crimson what exactly do you have now.

I'm sorry.....my visa situation is quite confusing!! I'm still a little confused by it, but here goes:

You may remember me from a previous topic wherein I was the COMPLETE IDIOT who left the country without getting a re-entry permit. At that time, I had a one year extension of my Non-B visa, which was canceled as soon as I left the country. I was able to get a new Non-B visa (for 90 days), as well as a multiple entry re-entry permit, but I was unable to get another extension on this new visa (long story....), so my visa and my re-entry permit BOTH expire FOR GOOD on April 28th. My question is this: if I want to get a 30 day pass on the 27th of April, will they grant me that at the airport, even if my visa and re-entry permit expire on the 28th? I do have an onward flight that departs within the 30 days.....I just want to make sure that they don't only allow me to stay in the country for only one day as per my visa/re-entry permit, 'cause that would just be no good......

I think you are confused between "permission to enter" (which is what a visa confers) and "permission to stay" (which is the date by which you must depart). The "Valid Until" date on your visa indicates the end of your "permission to enter". For a Non-Immigrant visa, your initial "permission to stay" is for 90 days from your date of entry and is not limited by the "Valid Until" date.

If you have a multiple-entry Non-Immigrant "B" visa with a "Valid Until" date of April 28th, then you can enter the country on April 27th and receive permission to stay for a further 90 days. You don't need proof of onward travel. The re-entry permit is irrelevant - while you needed one when you were on a one year extension of stay, you didn't need one with your current Non-Immigrant "B" as by it's very nature a multi-entry Non-Immigrant visa permits unlimited departures and re-entries during its validity period.

In theory she can change (convert) a 30 day Visa Exempt entry into a Non-Immigrant Visa at immigration. In practice, 30 days is too short a time to find a teaching job and collect all the required documents for immigration. Best to plan on a trip to a local, friendly Thai Embassy or Consulate for the Non-Immigrant "B" Visa.

A 60-day Tourist Visa (extensible to 90 days in Thailand) obtained in advance would give your mother-in-law more time to find a potential employer and file for a change of status. Note that anecdotal evidence elsewhere in this forum suggests that the Thai Embassy in Manila may be local but is definitely not friendly. They known for being rather arbitrary in turning down applications for Tourist and Non-Immigrant Visas. Most of the reports have been from non-Philippine citizens - I'm not sure if they are more accommodating with Filipinos.

Tourist Visa for both of you is the way to go. You don't mention what type of casual work for GF is looking for, but assuming she is a non-Thai national, she is not permitted to undertake any of the following occupations:

1. laboring

2. work in agriculture, animal breeding, forestry, fishing and farm supervision (excluding specialized skills for the branch, farm supervision or in the maritime fishing field)

3. masonry, carpentry or other construction work

4. wood carving

5. driving of motor vehicles or non-motorised carriers (except piloting international airplanes)

6. shop attendant and window salespeople

7. auctioneering

8. accountancy supervision, auditing or services in the accounting field (except occasional internal auditing)

9. gem cutting or polishing

10. hair cutting, hair dressing or beautician work

11. hand weaving

12. mat weaving or fabrication of wares from reed, rattan, kenaf, straw or bamboo pulp

13. manual fibre paper making

14. lacquerware making

15. Thai musical instrument fabrication

16. nielloware fabrication

17. goldsmith, silversmith, or other precious metalwork

18. bronzeware fabrication

19. Thai doll making

20. mattress or padded blanket fabrication

21. alms bowl fabrication

22. manual silk product fabrication

23. Buddha image fabrication

24. knife making

25. paper or cloth umbrella fabrication

26. shoemaking

27. hat making

28. brokerage or agency work (except international business)

29. engineering work, civil engineering branch, which involves designing, drawing, calculation, organization, research, planning, testing, construction supervision or advisory work (except work requiring specialized skills)

30. architectural work involving designing, drawing or estimating as well as construction supervision or advisory work

31. dressmaking

32. pottery or ceramics

33. manual cigarette rolling

34. tourist guide or tour organizing agency

35. hawking business

36. Thai character typesetting

37. clerical or secretarial work

38. legal or litigation service.

#6 covers any type of retail work including as a waiter or waitress in a bar or restaurant. A work permit is required before beginning work in any non-prohibited occupation. While employers are often willing to overlook the work permit requirement, the penalties for working without a permit are more severe for the undocumented employee than for the employer and include fines, imprisonment and/or deportation. Not advisable. Given that obtaining a work permit requires a fair amount of paperwork and some expense, most employers would be unwilling to go through this process for a short-term employee unless it was for a very rare skill or specific short-term project.

So now we know....Thomson Reuters reads Thaivisa.com.

If you manage to get your name entered in the blue/yellow Tambien Baan, are you still required to do 90day reporting with Thai Immigration?

Yes.

Thanks Mario.

Well, if you are a foreigner and you have your name in a blue house registration, that means you must be a permanent resident. Permanent residents are not required to file 90 day reports. But it's the permanent residency that gets you out of the 90 day requirement, not the fact that your name is in a tabien baan.

Don't Permanent Residents still require work permits? If so, doesn't this also exclude PRs?

Yes, Permanent Residents still require work permits. However the questions about whether employees working inside an embassy are exempt due to the unique status of embassy "territory" are interesting ones. Perhaps we have a seasoned diplomat in the forum somewhere?

Not sure what the experience of others has been, but I found that getting Thai landlords to add tenants to their Tabien Baan (blue house registration books) is difficult. When my PR was approved in 2007, one of the Immigration requirements was to register on a Tabien Baan within 7 days. Our Thai landlord flatly refused to have us on her Tabien Baan and thought the request was most irregular. So we had a Catch-22: Immigration insisted we must register, but no law or regulation compelled the owner of our rented accommodation to allow us to register. We ended up using the Tabien Baan of a friend's house for a few months. When we completed the purchase of a condo, we transferred our registrations across to the new Tabien Baan. Note that neither my wife nor I are Thai. It might be easier to get landlords to consent if at least one family member is Thai.

Not strictly required, but any documentation that establishes that you have unique skills, knowledge or abilities can only help clarify for the Labour Department why your employer has to hire you rather than a Thai national. Always submit as much paper as possible.

OK..so now that you have your question answered,i am also a tad confused!!....

I have a double entry from Laos that i am about to renew so as to get a third month here..

SO...After he third month, if i want to stay another 3 months, DO I....

A. Simply leave and re-enter again to get another 60 days?? and if so,...

B. Can i only go back to Laos to renew??

Im sorry if this sounds a silly question, but i was presuming i just had to repeat the exact same process as i did to get the first double, ie...go to Laos,submit application,photos, pay at Vientiane,pick up next day.come back in ect ect..

The posts ive seen lately seem to imply that a double entry means some magic formula to get 6 months here..whereas i assumed a "double entry" visa referred to having been granted two months instead of the standard one month tourist..

Im a newbie as you can guess ...SO Am i missing something here??

The terminology "renew" is a bit confusing - visas cannot be renewed. Once you have entered Thailand, your authorised period of stay can be extended depending on the visa type, but the visa itself is only ever valid for entry before the "Valid Before" date shown when it is issued. This date cannot be "renewed" or extended.

If you had a double-entry Tourist visa from Laos, it would have allowed you a total of 180 days in Thailand. The period of stay on the first entry would have been for 60 days, extensible at any Immigration Office in Thailand for a further 30 days (cost = THB 1,900). Then, as long as you did so before the "Valid Before" date on your visa, you could have crossed any border and returned on the second entry, also valid for 60 days and also extensible for a further 30 days. Total 180 days (or a few days less depending on your "Valid Before" date).

So the answer to your question is "A" if and only if:

1) your tourist visa is a double entry and you have only used one entry, AND

2) it has not yet reached it's "Valid Before" date.

If 1) or 2) is not true, then you need leave Thailand on or before the "permitted to stay" date stamped in your passport at Immigration when you got your last 30 day extension. You don't have to go to Laos, although the embassy in Vientienne is arguably the most reliable in the region for issuing double-entry tourist visas. Many other embassies/consulates will only issue them in limited circumstances or not at all.