mixed

if McCain is elected then earmarks will end and there will be great pressure on keeping government spending down and an overall return to fiscal responsibility, if Obama is elected and does even half of what he says he wants to do then government spending and debt will both skyrocket and the future of the Dollar will be on shakey ground. If you are living in Thailand and your income is in Dollars, then I would hedge your bets and take a position in the Baht before the election just in case Obama is elected. Best of luck to you in either case Barry

But isn't McCain going to continue the Iraq disaster? Surely the best way to control US govt spending is by slashing the military budget.

>i heard NGV is save than LPG

Allowing for a very minor typo spelling error - there is a another long running LPG/NGV thread running here that suggests one is significantly safer than the other - due to gas pressures?

I should re-read before I post. The main danger I was referring to is that LPG is heavy than air, so it doesn' disapate (sp?). It also has a broader % to air ratio for ignition the natural gas. Have their been any reported accidents from either?

I read some while ago that diesel engines for smaller salon cars would be coming to Thailand as BMW and Ford do in Europe.

So I suppose we can look forward to the introduction of 'salon cars', should be interesting.

well OP why dont you tell us your story? did she go back to school?

Which one? I've been in a couple of relationships, but never sent anyone back to school. When I came here I had no money, so there was no option but to say no to any requests. Lot's of girls didn't hang around! But some did, along with a lot of other Thais. What I've found with Thais is those that are shy, sometimes to the point of seeming rude, are usually honest and hard working. While those that come across as you're best friend when you first meet them will usually ask for 'help' before too long. I've never given a girl an 'allowance', this is asking for trouble.

I avoid ppl who expect me to pay for everymeal etc. What I found with a lot of girls was that at some point they want to take you out and pay, they want to make a point that it's not going to be one way. I have a lot of time for Isaan ppl and feel they get a bad rap. If you think they're all lazy and greedy take a look at some of the women working on construction sites, hard work in this heat for B250 a day.

With all the bashing of rural Thais that goes on here, I'd like to know how many ppl have actually found their Thai partners get sick of the family always asking and never giving in return.

Everyone is always having a go at the bar girls, but I'm sure there are those who realize the only one who's ever really helped them out is their partner. Not just by taking them out of the bar, but also by encouraging them to study/work and have more confidence in themselves.

In contrast they may have realized their families had no problem with them working in a bar and just wanted the cash.

I'm not just talking about bar girls, but rural Thai men/women in general. Usually one sibling will be a good worker and the rest a bit lazy, often there's a brother who is worse than useless.

It would be good to hear some postive experiences for a change.

Judging on the input from the TE card holders, it would appear they biggest benefit for the card is how quickly thru immigration (with an escort!). Free golf and massage also gets a mention.

One poster says it will pay for itself in 7-8 years and now 12 years with the price increase. I can't see how this is possible. Exactly what kind of massage is on offer?

Its a simple matter of working out how much I used the services and the money I save each time I do so.

This is just for the usage that I have got from Thai Elite and this is just for the services. On top of this I save 10% at most of the shopping malls and duty free (not a big deal so I didn't count it), and get 20% discount at a lot of the good restaurants (i.e. Marriot riverside Sunday Brunch etc)... I have not put a financial value on the excellent Visa benifits and the time saving when travelling through the airports 20+ times per year.

This is how I worked out that it would pay for its self in approximately 7-8 years, After usage this year it looks like about 6 years, but I imagine some years I could play less golf etc...

Golf at 2000 Baht per round: Playing 2-4 times per month: 4000 B to 8000 Baht per month.

Massage at 1600 Baht per massage: 2-4 times per month: 3200 B to 6400 Baht per month.

Airport transfer: 2 times per month (*See comment below): 2000 B to 4000 Baht per month.

Totals Per Month: 9200 B to 18400 Baht per month.

Totals Per Year: 110,400 B to 220800 Baht per Year.

1 MB Cost Recuperated after: 9 years to 4.5 years.

*Airport transfers in a BWM 7 series, so I estimate 2000B for the cost, but at the low end I'm also considering normal AOT taxi at what I used to pay before I joined Thai Elite which was 1000B per trip

(Edit for typo's)

If you look at it this way I can see how you get the figures, but you should also consider the interest you would have gained if you'd invested the money.

Ppl who can travel internationally twice monthly and then still spend enough time in Thailand to have 2-4 massages and rounds of golf are few and far between, as has been shown from the poor sales.

Also, exactly what sort of massage are you getting for B1,600? Maybe if they publicized this benefit a bit more they'd have acheived greater sales.

Judging on the input from the TE card holders, it would appear they biggest benefit for the card is how quickly thru immigration (with an escort!). Free golf and massage also gets a mention.

One poster says it will pay for itself in 7-8 years and now 12 years with the price increase. I can't see how this is possible. Exactly what kind of massage is on offer?

Those who pay a bit (in cash) and then get ripped are getting off easy. The ones who take substantial losses from investing heavily in real estate in their spouse's name are the ones I feel sorry for. It's fine for one person but then another person thinks it should be okay for him/her too... they take the plunge, buy up a lot of property and instead they lose their shirt/pants.

Do you think weatlhy Thai men avoid registering their marriage because of the rights it gives to their spouses in the case of divorce?

Let's say you had a farang friend who'd been living with a woman for at least 5 years and had a child together. You know the couple well, they are of similar age, both working and you don't see the woman as a gold digger. The farang wants to buy land/house because he's thinking of his kid's future. What advice would you give him?

91 benzene is at 36.24 now. Anybody care to guess if it will peak around 38?

Peak is a misleading term I think.

Unless you mean Peak Oil.

It's not necessarily that the girl was bad to begin with, taken advantage of a situation is something most ppl do. Thais are opportunistic, it's no necessarily bad thing, but you should be careful what opportunities you give them.

My Mrs families are shockers, nice ppl willing to do anything for you as long as it requires no effort. Initially when had bros/sisters work for us, the salary was small but they would become partners. When they realized hard work was required they abandoned us, literally sneaking of in the middle of the night.

This and other things have led my wife to have little time for her direct family, although some of the uncles are OK and we still give them work (and pay them well). Her grandmother is also very good, over the years we've bought a few things for her, gas stove, water pump. The other bros and sisters have never helped anyone in anyway.

After being together 7 yrs I finally visited my wifes village, I was treated well but haven't been back since. The probably hate me, I don't know. But I'd rather be hated and respected than considered a soft touch.

If you would like some first hand knowledge, instead of the usual guessing games that go on here. I know of a house in Isan that has a masement and if you go down into it, it is very cool, much cooler than above. It stands to reason, but for those that do not understand it and then say 'not possible' it will always be cooler.

Good to see the experts coming on board. Exactly how much cooler is your mate's 'masement'? The reason I ask is others gave first hand knowledge in this thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/lofiversion/...hp/t168551.html

One said his was only 1-2 degrees cooler. That was in Pattaya, Isaan has a cooler winter and nights which would make a difference. I'm familar with cooper pedy, but aren't those places fairly deeper and the ground is quite different than here. The basement's in large Thai buildings are only a little cooler.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have one for the hotter months of the year, I'm just not convinced they'd be worth the effort. Besides flooding dampness and ventilation would be issues.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I wouldn't automatically assume it'd be cool, the subterranean temperature is much higher in thailand than in our home countries. I've noticed caves are still pretty hot. but it'd definitely be cooler than the air temperature.

I thought of a basement but decided against it for this reason. The earth temp will reflect the average temp of the location. As most of Thailand is always warm, so is the ground temperature.

Houses here a built high to allow them to cool off at night. The underneath provides shade and is where ppl spend most of the daytime.

Basements were discussed a while ago, apparently some houses in Jomtien were built with them. Try a search.

I don't agree with all this stuff about educating girls being good, it fits with the idea that 'education makes good honest ppl', which isn't my experience.

A lot has to do with the man in the relationship, my humble advice is:

- Never give the girls money they don't earn, sure you can pay the rent and bills, but don't let them have cash.

- If they want financial independence, they can get a job. If they want money for doing housework etc. hire a maid.

- No shopping excursions on weekends.

- Never let family move in, no matter what

- If the family want to borrow money, lend them a little. Later on ask for a favor that is inconvenient for them, when they don't help you never need to do anything for them again.

- Don't pay sinsot

- Never ever buy land in their hometown, besides the OP's situation, they'll be under pressure to impress and 'help' locals.

I was going to say never put land in their name, except I've already done this. I've got a usufruct on the land and have been with the girl 8 years. The 2m for the land came from the sale of the property at home, but my Mrs. thinks we've borrowed.

Together we run our own business and are sending money to the UK for my pension fund. The Mrs thinks it's loan repayment.

The reason I bought the place is we have a business together and it I thought she deserved an asset.

Thai girls will often favor their partners over family, but first they need to see themselves how bad the family can be. If they earn the money themselves they won't be so quick to send it back home.

Thanks for the quick response. Have you sent many packages? The total value of this one is around 25K

I have to send a large heavy package within Thailand, the cost via EMS is over 2K,

The recipeint has asked for registered post, has anyone had experience with this? Anything get lost?

The package is worth a bit and I'd hate it if it went missing.

There's plenty of ppl who are happy here, running there own business and making money. These ppl aren't selling their businesses. They're not telling anyone their successful because they don't want to be copied. Some of them may even be complaining to stop others envying them, which can also create problems.

A lot of people who are successful in the West fail here because things are so different and they don't even try to understand why.

A high percentage of small businesses in the west fail, it's no different here. People who talk bug about how much they have to invest are likely to lose. It's better to keep quite, listen to others and look around at what is working rather than focus on the failures.

Using the guide from Guesthouse, I quickly jotted down some ideas.

The house is really simple and uses renewable materials that should be found close by. There is no air con and few creature comforts, but my idea was to start really simple. There are a few problems, for example large eaves don't allow much light in, so it will be a challenge have the house bright enough thru the day.

Besides being renewable, I was thinking the thatch roof provides good insulation, it also isn't heavy like tiles, but maybe a bit flammable!

My ideas are largely based on bungalows and restaurants that I've. If done properly it could look nice and blend with it's surroundings. It would also be fairly cheap.

Design and Building

A simple house, with few corners or fancy bits that require heaps of labor. To allow for air flow, there won’t be too many walls. The roof shall extend to cover outside areas, where ppl can sit during the day, for meals etc. This area will be brick paved.

Large eaves will provide shade and prevent rain entering parts of the house that are open.

There will be a raised concrete slab, to assist air flow under the house and prevent dampness (not sure what you call this, but I’ve seen it done).

Eucalypt posts are used for support beams, woven bamboo panels (or whatever you call them) for the wall. There will be thatch roof with guttering to collect water.

Main kitchen is a little separate from the building, so as not to heat it up too much.

Regarding chemicals, the eucalypt would have to be treated for termites, although I’m not sure what treatments are available. The interior would be painted white to keep it bright so lights would have to run during the day.

Running Impacts

Daily running impact would be minimal, no air-con, no lights during the day.

Water would be collected to feed the house by gravity (for the rainy season at least).

The gardens will have local plants, along with vegetables and fruit trees.

No Pool.

Disposal

Grey water will run to the garden. Composting for kitchen scraps. There are also systems that recycle toilet waste, although I don’t know much about these.

Just stay the <deleted> off your high horse, don't try to mandate how you feel other people should live, and let me and others like me enjoy my right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Somone woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Nobody is trying to tell you how to live your life. In fact, I say "go for it". Consume all you can as quickly as you can. If you don't, somebody else will.

At issue is the fact that your current party life style won't last forever. It's not going to end tomorrow, but your life in 20 years won't be close to what you have right now. So, you can make your future alot less miserable if you leave the party early and start to plan ahead. Those who don't are going to have an awfully rough time of it once the punch bowl is taken away.

in my opinion the impact from individuals "leaving the party" is too small to count as long as developing countries are "partying" as if there is no tomorrow. and my [not so] humble opinion is that they have a right to do so, the same right the industrialized countries used when they polluted the environment and burned fossil fuels for more than a century.

moreover, those who keep on partying will not have a less rough time in future than the others. because if the punch bowl is taken away then no exceptions will me made. i see no logic in this statement but perhaps i'm missing something?

has anybody been travelling lately? perhaps to the Gulf, London, Singapore, Paris or Hong Kong. if yes did you see all the nonsensical lights which are on all night long although they are as superfluous as (my favourite metaphor ) the uterus of a nun sworn to eternal celibacy? does anybody think his/her tiny efforts to reduce his/her carbon footprint by changing to energy saving light bulbs at home will make any impact globally and conserve energy?

Of course they don't, which is why people are saying if the governments don't start leading the way we're all in trouble. In the US the govt is so close to big oil that they'll never change.

All energy can be measured in calories......these are the only reliable currency....forget gold/dllars/baht.....and at the end of the day virtually ALL energy - old and new - comes from the sun....that will last longer than we need to worry about.

so long as we concentrate on how to get energy form the sun we should be OK.

Makes sense. I've heard that for every calorie produced with modern agriculture, 10 calories are used. Since Cuba ran out of oil they have reduced this to 1:1 using sustainable techniques and growing food in available space in the cities.

Thanks, lots of info, may take some time to go through it all.

Another thing with new houses is they always have the kitchen in the house, which helps heat the place up, also if it's Thai food there can be a lot of smells. Traditionally kitchens were separated from the house a little, I think this still makes a lot of sense. You could even have a main kitchen separated and a smaller, simple kitchen in the house for preparing snacks/small meals.

Also, creating nice living areas outside, with the climate it's much more pleasant to be outside in the shade, especially if it's a garden area. The main purpose of walls over here is for privacy and security, so besides bedrooms and areas with valuables, most of the house can be open.

As for solar it's difficult to say what will happen with fossil fuels, solar hot water is viable now, it doesn't have to be efficient. There may be other simple options for cooking with solar.

I'd like to start a discussion about enviro friendly building. What designs and materials are most energy efficient?

Traditionally there was no air-con or even fans in Thailand, so houses were designed to be as cool as possible. There was always plenty of air flow and shaded areas outside the house, which is where ppl spent most of the day.

These days it seems all this has been forgotten. Moo bans are filled with concrete western style houses that require air con to be livable. The only outside shade is the carport!

Due to the high cost of timber, building traditionally is very difficult. What type of materials can be used these days? Eucalyptus is cheap and plentiful. Can it be treated to stop termites? What about roofing, what's best. I think thatch roofing does well too keep out the heat, but it doens't last long so I'm not sure how feasable it is. What about modern materials and insulating paints?

What about renewable energy? There's little wind, but heaps of sun. Solar would seem a good option, although at this stage I'm not sure how cost effective it is. There's a lot of companies making solar panels in LOS. Are their new solar technologies on the horizon? Is the price of solar panels set to drop due to mass production?

Water. What can be done to make houses use less water. In many rural houses water from the kitchen and bathroom runs straight to the garden, making simple use of grey water. Is it possible to store enough water for use all year round?

Let's here some ideas!

And even aside from all this...if the cost of oil doubles again it will not really have much impact on the lifestyle of the people around where I live....or me for that matter. If you have a small motorbike for transportation, no aircon, and bathe in tepid water then energy is not really a big part of your budget......heck, even in the local style of farming fuel is a relatively insignificant input....artificial fertilizers require alot of energy to make so I expect that fertilizer prices would go up but even if they doubled in price it would not be a show stopper...it would just mean that rice would cost a bit more....also, fertilizer would be used more carefully and natural sources of fertility would start being used again (organic farming techniques).

Really I think that the only people who need worry about this issue at all are those that are addicted to fuel consumption because of their life style of course these are the people who are creating the "problem" in the first place by consuming ridiculous amounts of fuel which causes the "shortage".....for alot of us it is a total non issue if fuel prices keep going up.

Chownah

Chownah,

Thanks for the post, I think your input could be valuable here. As someone who knows about sustainable agriculture, how do you think rural Thailand would go without the use of chemical fetilizers and mechanized equipment? Could sustainable methods produce similar amounts as present day methods? How would rural communities fair if all there food had to be produced locally? Could enough food be produced if land was also used for bio-fuels? How would farmers cope if food exports dropped significantly?

Reading about peak oil, most of the info is focused on developed countries, many of which are cold and all of which require huge amounts of oil. Their may be a big shift in the balance of power away from these countries in the future. How will Thailand fair? Self suffiency in rural communities may be possible, but will it happen considering that the poor always end up carrying the burden.

Sorry to ask so many questions!

I'm not too worried as we run out of oil, increasingly more of our resources will be aimed at finding alternatives or creating new technologies, necessity is the mother of invention after all.

If we wait too long there may the resources needed to create the alternatives. This is the crux, whether it's building nuclear powerstations, windmills or making solar panels, they all need oil. So the longer we wait, the less oil we'll have and the harder the crash will be.

Ppl advocating the end of oil in the 70's were called crackpots, but if the world had taken their advice the landing would be much softer.

in my opinion the impact from individuals "leaving the party" is too small to count as long as developing countries are "partying" as if there is no tomorrow. and my [not so] humble opinion is that they have a right to do so, the same right the industrialized countries used when they polluted the environment and burned fossil fuels for more than a century.

The more who leave the party the greater the result. Developing parties are 'partying' to copy the developed. I get the impression your saying industrial countries have reduced the impact on the enviromnent, consumption in these countries continues to increase, cuasing more pollution every year.

moreover, those who keep on partying will not have a less rough time in future than the others. because if the punch bowl is taken away then no exceptions will me made. i see no logic in this statement but perhaps i'm missing something?

It's not a case of the punch bowl being taken away, just that drinking from it will get more and more expensive, so many can't afford to do so. Therefore the poor will be the first to suffer.

This is in the short term however, in the long term who knows. Poor communities may more sustainable without oil. Whereas Western countries will find it much harder to cope. Europe will have big problems, but Australia, Canada and the USA will find it really hard. Their societies were built around personal transport, can you imagine how these places will be when running a car is impossible for most ppl.

It's difficult to say for Thailand, food prices will increase as more land is used for bio-fuels. Thais have become very used to modern conveniences, but that doesn't mean they can't live without them.

Saying that technology will save the world is OK if you can back it up with research. If not your planning on a miracle, which isn't wise. It would have been good if we started planning 30 years ago, but we didn't. Even 5 years ago would be good. We could start today, but we're not. The first thing we need to do is believe in peak oil. We're addicted to oil and don't have enough to satisfy our addiction.

it will be a simple financial decision. When oil hits a certain price, other alternative energies will become economical, whether they be wind, solar or others like Coal to Oil, natural gas turbines or a range of other things.

The high prices will make our innovators come out with more energy efficient products, and make us more energy efficient ourselves.

Just becuase oil has been the 'magic bullet' in the past, doesn't mean we will continue to have one fuel source as our main energy supply. In future it will be an increasing mix of things, oil being one of them.

Simple seems a bit of an understatement. The sooner we realize a problem exists the better of we are, although it seems we have left things very late.

The renewables will play their (small) part too as well as their big brother Nuclear power. Don't forget that uranium is in an abundant supply and it produces a helluva lot more than renewables do. Nuclear waste is a down-side but deep-core sites and glass encasement are a way around this.

As a final solution, the boffins are predicting that by 2025 fusion power will be replacing oil and gas as a major energy source (subject to helium 3 availability).

Taking all this into account I don't think we'll be going back-to-basics but will have to be more conservative in our lifestyles than before (but not by that much).

I've heard that uranium will only last 20 years, but this figure is probably based on theories with strong growth in demand.

Lessening demand seems to be the key. Less consumption means a less economic growth, recession etc.

A degree of back to basics combined with new/renewable technologies will be an important part. Below is an example (as crazy as it seems):