mtnthai

@ frollywolly

i will take your for your word when you describe both the event that is the topic being discussed and also the type of relationship you say you have with your friend who was at this dinner.

so i have to conclude, after all the positng that has gone on relative to this topic, that most respondents don't have a clue as to what that type of friendship is about, or how some folks have absolutely no problem with leaving a tip for good service when it is warranted ... it would seem that those two concepts go hand in hand and are not mutually exclusive.

which makes a lot of sense to me, but is just one man's opinion.

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We had a restaurant back home where the staff did so well on tips, the owner didn't even pay them a salary.

There were other good waitress' too, always applying to get the next position at this cafe.

The place was packed, service was excellent and the staff were super happy. The place had a nice buzz.

Keep your waitress happy. It pays off I say.

paychecks in the USA for waitstaff are most often used to cover the taxes on their tips.

As long as you don't tip the barber or the dentist - these two are no nos in Thailand.

i always tip my barber and the lady who shampoos my hair,been going to the same barbers for many years now,and i get very good service when i go,always use to tip barber in uk too.

me too, here in TH and in the US, especially the shampoo person if ther is one.

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I read the first 4 pages and the last page...and have a few comments of course

1. Why do some people argue if the OP had 8k meal or not? Why is he considered crazy. He had a good evening out with friends...good for him. No need to comment on his expenses.

2. I noticed some saying "I never tip, especially if there is a service charge". If its included you will "happily" tip and if its not included you don't tip? Thats basically promoting restaurants to add a service charge. Seems you would be happy to be "forced" to pay 10%, rather than tipping on service received.

3. Then the ones that say "find a better job if minimum wage is not enough". If everybody thinks like that, you wouldn't have anymore restaurants, grocery clerks, trash collectors etc. Wait, let me rephrase that...you would have them, but the price for your food / beverage etc would go up in order to pay above minimum in order for the staff serving you.

4. The restauranteur should pay higher salary, so you don't have to tip? Fine, lets raise the menu prices 10% and use that money to pay the staff a bit more than minimum wage. However, that won't motivate them to give good service.

5. In the US, the server do get a minimum wage it IS law. Each state has a different minimum wage set. California ( when I left there was $8.50 ). Here is what many do not know. The servers are taxed on there sales ----> tips. Lets say a server sold $10,000 in 2 weeks ( payroll in the US is bi-weekly ), it is assumed they received 15% tip ( $1,500 ). From those $1,500 they have to pay taxes and tip out the bartender, Busboy, Hostess and in some instances the kitchen staff and/or event coordinator. The taxes get automatically deducted from their paycheck, which in many cases leaves a server that worked 60-80 hours in those two weeks with a minimal paycheck ( depending how much they sold those 2 weeks ). Is a server doesn't sell anything in those two weeks, they will get their hours worked x $8.50 with no extra deductions besides the usual social security, witholding tax etc

On topic:

it is an interesting question the OP brought up....especially since their are obviously so many different opinions. I think he did good by leaving some extra...and since he is 20+ years friends with the host, I don't think there are bad feelings...more likely just something to converse about next time around.

If service was good like op mentioned, I think 300 is a reasonable tip to leave ( usually staff split the tips at the end of the night between everyone...even the ones working behind the scenes i.e. dishwashers ).

I am a restaurant owner and "struggle" with the tipping here. My waitstaff are stoked if they receive a tip anywhere between 40 and 100 baht and kind of shrug it off if they don't receive a tip or only very little. My struggle is explaining to them what good service consists of. But I have noticed they try really hard. When they do get that "big tip" for the service, they get excited. It really does motivate them to do even better. It is very important for them to know they got tipped for good service and not just because it is custom. I hate it when crappy service is given and a tip expected....and my staff know that.

By the way, it is not easy to find wait staff here, as it seems to be a looked down upon profession in Thailand. And from what I have seen in Thailand, they are treated like "slaves", unfortunately. Many people sadly don't see that customer service can be challenging and unrewarding, especially if not trained for it.

excellent post from someone who obviously has given this all a lot of consideration.

i agree with you that TH does offer a great challenge when it comes to service staff, and good knowledgeable ones are hard to find.

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@canuckamuck:

when i worked in the states i was in Vermont on the Canadian border. every ski season Canadians would come to VT to holiday and most did not tip. but if the argument here is that when in Rome do as the Romans do, why is that most Canadians do not do this when travelling in the states and they know full well what the system is and that service staff are on a limited hourly wage?

Careful now you have me grouped with people that don't tip, people that bring a doggy bag to a buffet, and grouped all Canadians as non tippers.

And you are wrong in all three generalizations. So perhaps you should have that shoulder chip looked at. You're probably a spitter too.

In the west I tip like everyone else. But I do it grudgingly because what could be a gesture of gratitude and appreciation has become an expectation. Like giving someone a present and they say, "took you long enough"? And as the percentage creeps up you have to ask, when's it going to stop? Why did it jump from 10 to 20%. Because they figured how to work the guilt factor into the show-off factor and boom an extra 10% raise that never cost the owner a dime.

In Thailand I will tip what's convenient and likely near 10%. But only for good service which is not the most common element over here. What is common is my wife berating me for leaving a tip.

please note i used the word most, and to me that is not a generalization, it is my direct experience.

my comment about taking food from buffets was not directed at you either, and it was a statement regarding people who feel that tipping is verboten at anytime and anywhere.

and if you (and some others) have read every one of my posts, rather than skimming or cherry picking through them as some do, it is evident that i am not an advocate of a forced SC, nor am i an advocate for paying for services and food quality that is not delivered. on the contrary, any place i have worked where this practice of a forced SC is being employed i try as a F & B manager to get it removed from my department so that staff will be inclined to deliver beter services. i was only successful once.

further, i clearly state (more than once) that i do not tip when it sucks (or leave a flat % with regard for what was served, its quality, and how hospitable the staff were). i also go so far as to contact the staff and management when i disapprove, and i take the time to leave reviews and comments on social media as that seems to be one thing that is helping to change the industry for the better (most of the time). and i do the same when i think it was exceptional.

i am very balanced in my approach and i think its because of all the hard work and time i have put into the hospitality business both in the US and in TH. i actually am "condemned" to analyze every aspect of a F & B venue, its products and services as a result of having been responsible for those things for so many years. i cannot sit in a venue for more than 5 minutes without giving it the same sort of appraisal that i do when charged with managing a place.

and i will be damned if i am going to work all week and do my best and then go out on my night off and have some lazy person ruin my dining experience or expect a tip for having done nothing. so please realize i am probably a lot harsher than most, but i am also generous to those who have done their job well.

that's my prerogative.

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I don't tip one baht at a particular restaurant I have been frequenting for 8 years and it has amazing service. The management require it from their staff as part of their business model and they do very well with 3 restaurants in Pattaya and many throughout Thailand and they're always busy. I can name quite a few restaurants in Pattaya which offer similar great service where tipping is not necessary in order to get good service on subsequent visits.

In reply to a previous comment from you about tips giving staff incentive to provide excellent service...in Australia it is called keeping your job. If they don't do the job they'll lose your job. Providing good service is part of their job description.

As a customer I don't go to restaurants which provide poor service and food - it's that simple. I'm not at all interested in their balance sheets. There's no need to make excuses for poor service. Certainly in Pattaya it's a customer's market as the competition is stiff - that should be more than enough incentive for them to try hard to offer the best possible service.

You're still being vague about how the 10% service charge is distributed. You say maybe they get a few percent. In these cases how do they distribute the amount they do get? All the restaurants which I frequent which charge 10% have official computer receipts, so it would be well recorded on their records.

From a business point of view a service charge could be interpreted as a charge to ensure good service... perhaps extra staff, for example.... and never be intended as a tip.

i am not being vague as all venues do different things with the SC, and some may give 2% or 5% to staff, and some may give none of it. but my experience in TH is that many places keep it all. there is no rule of thumb so i can not be more specific.

When we go to a restaurant we should only be expected to pay for food. We should not be expected to pay for labour. If some choose to, fine. But it shouldn't be expected. The restaurant owner should take that responsibilty. If he can't afford it, that's his problem - not the customers'. If he can't pay his staff a decent wage, then maybe he shouldn't be in business.

Of course, when we are being made responsible for the labour cost, some of us do think: is this really a fair amount for the service recieved? 10 or 20%, for what?

I was at a rooftop bar/restaurant in BKK a few months ago. It cost 300 baht for a small bottle of beer, plus service charge. There actually was no service. The waiters were standing around chatting and laughing; they were compteley ignoring the customers (cos they are getting the service charge anyway, so why bother?). I had to go over to them to place my order at the bar. These guys are probably getting 30k a month, all in.

And before anyone says, "No way..waiters in Thailand don't make that". My GF was a barmaid in a relatively small American Pub in Sukhumvit and even the staff there would often make up to 20k a month. Now, i would prefer her employer to pay that, rather than her having to rely on the customers. Some months were bad and she only got 10k (which i don't believe is enough for anyone in Thailand, especially not in BKK).

And, in Thailand, they can afford to pay more than 7k salary. All it would mean is, instead of having too many staff hanging around doing very little, they would have a few staff working hard for a decent salary and nobody would have to worry about tips.

when you by anything, lets say a car, do you think you are only paying for the parts and you did not pay for the labor? food is the same, as is EVERYTHING.

Consumers will always pay for labor one way or another, its a part of business. so if there is no SC assessed, or tipping is put to the side, then the menu prices will simply go up and customers will pay more for the food. in the end, you will still be paying for labor as you do for all services that you use.

one of the biggest problems IMO that TH faces is that the cost of goods and services were historically very low compared to the West for so long and the visitor got used to that. now that the cost of operating has gone up they need to raise their prices as in any country or economy, but the visitor still wants a 35 baht beer, 20 baht for fried rice and pahd thai, 100 baht for massages, a room with a seaview for 500 baht, and so on ... i find it quite disturbing that so many visitors and expats want TH to stand still in regard to what they are willing to pay for goods and services, and just can't deal with the fact that TH is progressing and that means prices are going up for everything.

how TH people can be expected to survive and support themselves and their families on the old wage scales when everything in their lives is costing more is an unfair view.

for those who have chosen TH as their new home, expats, i find its even more saddening that they expect TH to stand still so they can reap the benefits of paying 1980 prices for goods and services. there are expats that have put in a lot of years here living and working within the system, and then there are those that come here for retirement only. i find this second group to be a lot more out of touch with the reality of TH and its ways, especially the work place and what is considered to be fair and equitable. this group has only seen the end product during their holidays and they apparently have no idea what actually goes into providing them with what they want. they just want it to be cheap so their retirement can be more enjoyable to them without having to pay the full tariff.

@canuckamuck:

when i worked in the states i was in Vermont on the Canadian border. every ski season Canadians would come to VT to holiday and most did not tip. but if the argument here is that when in Rome do as the Romans do, why is that most Canadians do not do this when travelling in the states and they know full well what the system is and that service staff are on a limited hourly wage?

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Mtnthai

What is the appropriate tip for a bad restaurant experience? In Thailand, and also in the US.

as i clearly stated in one of my first posts if i get bad service i do not tip, i actually take the time to express my dissatisfaction to the waitstaff and most often the manager/owner, and in most cases i will post about it on social media, Facebook/Tripadvisor.

I find that when things are good, show it, and when things are bad, show it.

I take what I consider to be a very balanced approach to service and food quality (anywhere).

But I am coming from decades of hote/F & B work and I know my outlook on all of this is different from those who have different backgrounds, or take no interest in good food or service.

Another thought that comes to mind while reading this topic is I find myself wondering how many of the posters who are so adamant about not tipping, good service being an easy job, and thinking that restaurants make huge profits all the of time are also the same people I have observed over the years who think its ok to take a doggie bag home from a buffet.

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Tipping is ridiculous. Lots of people work minimum wage jobs, but for some reason the west has made us feel guilty for not GIVING servers extra money for simply bringing food to the table. Do these people work any harder than the ones at Big C, Burger King, or the gas station? But for some reason we give extra money to waiters...... Strange custom if you ask me.
...

To add insult to injury, restaurant service is usually 100 times worse in Bangkok than in America (from my personal experience).

Well, in American, restaurants can pay waiters less than minimum wage. Jobs that recieve tips are not required to have the normal minimum wage. In some states you only have to pay a waiter $2.13 an hour, which is the minimum wage for tipped employees. Normal minimum wage is $7.25.

Yes, that is true and it is WRONG. Customers should not foot the bill for cheap employers.

By the way, it is not like this in every state either. In California, servers and waiters get the state mandated minimum wage just like everyone else.

i believe that you, like so many posters here, are missing the point IN REGARD TO THE USA and how wages are dealt with ... the entire impetus of that system is to encourage staff to have some incentive to work well, unlike cultures where the service charge is included (and customers erroneously think the staff get all of that) which IMO encourages staff to sit on their hands and not give a damn. after all, they are getting paid regardless of how they perform their responsibilities. having to work for the tip most often times encourages a better level of service, which is why the service in America is most often not too bad.

the other fact that many posters are missing here, in regard to Thailand, is that the profit margin in most establishments is nowhere as high as you may think, and the costs of running an establishment are numerous, and high. further, unlike other countries where there is a great network of F & B suppliers who offer wholesale prices on everything (including kitchen equipment), unbeknownst to so many of you that does not exist here in Thailand to the degree it does in other places. the cost of goods and equipment, the tax on wines and beer, etc create a situation where turning a profit for the average restaurant is not the same as in other countries.

further, to keep deluding yourselves that the 10% goes to staff is just that, a dellusion. they get a small portion of that if any. IMO you need to come up with a different rational for not tipping when the SC is on the bill already.

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...
do you know how restaurants are run here snd employees treated? did you find a poor server? tips dont go jnto servers pockets here, does not work that way.

its about you tipping because you feel guilty sbout how much you just spent on one meal that equals five months rent to your server. poor natives.

dont sit there with a 300 baht glass of wine again you pompous ***!

I think that most people commenting on this topic are the ones who feel guilt, which is why they keep coming up with 101 reasons not to tip someone for good service. (tips and service charge are not the same).

my 2 decades+ of working in the f & b business in TH has shown me that the service charges rarely make it to the staff (or only a small amount) , but tips left after the fact most often do.

I have also found that no length of discussion will change a person’s mind on this topic. it like climate change denial or evolution Vs. intelligent design, it only becomes an exercise is name calling, slagging and posturing because everyone’s beliefs are set in stone and no amount of debate will change either side's views.

IMO there are 2 kinds of people when it comes to food and dining out, those who really appreciate it and will pay for good food, drink and service, and those who are simply going through the motions of consuming sustenance. Nothing wrong with that, we all have different priorities in life.

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Does anyone tip when there's a 10% service charge? I don't. Do the staff get this as an extra bonus or does the restaurant owner use it to pay their staff wages.

I'd really like to hear about this from someone in the business.

I have been in the hospitality business in the USA for 14 years and in Thailand for the last 22, and as I have been reading this topic I have read little that I did not expect. For me to try and explain my position as a career F & B worker to most of those who have posted here IMO would be as useless as most BMs here saying it is to tip a Thai. So I won't get too far into that.

To answer the question about who gets the 10% in Thailand I will say from my 22 years of experience in every type of venue from no star to 5 star, from BKK to Pats to Phuket, most hotel, restaurant and venue owners keep the better part of the 10% (if not all of it) and will pass on a few percentage to the staff (if any). So for those who think the staff are getting tipped too much because they see 10% on the bill as a service charge YOU ARE WRONG. FACT.

It is my concerted opinion that tipping is supposed to be an incentive for staff to work well, and IFO would prefer to not have the 10% automatically added to bill, and I would tip what I thought was commensurate with the level of service and quality of the rest of my meal (unlike so many who have posted to this topic). I tip between 10 and 20% dependent on many factors. If it is included and there is a large percentage of service charge related to having purchased some good bottles of wine then I will adjust my tip accordingly (lower) and keep in mind the level of overall service and food, rather than the total of the entire bill.

If I am in an upscale venue and they have already levied a 10% service charge, and I feel I got exemplary service, I will still add what I think would balance out to 15 or 20%. But I have to say that after being in the F & B business on 2 continents for a total of 36 years, most decent, hardworking staffs deserve to get paid a livable wage, deserve to get tipped when it’s commensurate with the level of service they have provided, and should be treated with respect.

But if they are lazy, unfriendly, poor servers, or request/demand to be tipped I do not and I will take the time to let them know why I have not. Many times I will tell management, leave comments on social media pages, or write to management about what I feel is deficient.

IFO thinks it’s all about having a balanced approach and i tip/comment accordingly.

Also keep in mind that in 99.99% of all TH F & B venues any tips/service charge, including those left on the table, will be shared by ALL the staff - front of the house, back of the house, parking/valet, bar, toilet, whatever. The only tip a worker may keep for themselves is the one placed directly into their hand, and most often they will still throw that into the general tip pool for all to share.

Further, to keep this all in perspective I do not tip when I eat on the street or in fast food places. But even in a typical TH shop house restaurant if the service was good I will leave a small tip relative to the cost of the meal, if there was a server, and the service was good/attentive. Being an expat of so many years I typically eat in the same places time and again, and like some BMs have stated, rational tipping goes a long way to getting consistnetly good service, food and beverages as time goes on.

If it’s a bar venue I tip the bartender so that they will remember what I like, how I like it, and so I get a fair pour each and every time. IFO think that those few baht go a long way for me to get what I want and to have a good time.

When I am at work training staff I spend a lot of time on trying to impress them with the fact that customers are not required to leave anything (10% included or not) and that the only way to encourage a customer to tip is to simply provide a high level of friendly professional service. But I also try to teach them not to expect that to yield results either (as shown by many posts on this thread) and to simply provide the best level of service that they can each and every time, and eventually that in and of itself should yield a reward for them.

Contrary to what a lot of people think on this board, having a service job and dealing with the public (and their high expectations and many times plantation attitude), and all the related stress that brings is most often not easy. People who do this work should be compensated accordingly like anyone else who wakes up each day and goes out to earn an honest wage.

And yes, I am an American, and that should have nothing to do with this discussion.

Tipping is not the norm in Thailand so your post doesn't make sense. Yes you'e American and still living like one. You must be a hi-so American expat not in touch with the average people in Thailand.

your assumptions about me (and tipping) are wrong. i have lived and worked here long enough (and paid my taxes) to have gotten my residency. i have been married to a Thai, and lived with Thais. i have worked with Thais in the hospitality business since 1992. i am not a wealthy man due to the fact that i have chosen to live in Thailand and work here for over 2 decades at a wage that is lower than i would have recieved back home. furhter, in no way have i ever been, nor do i aspire to be hi-so. on the contrary i am just an average guy with basic needs. i do however like to spend my hard earned money on a good meal with friends, and i have no problem tipping for good service.

some folks will spend a lot of money on football tickets, or aged whiskey, maybe clothes, or possibly a vehicle. to each his own, i prefer to spend my money on dining out becuase that is what makes me happy.

i do however come from the hospitality buisiness, i know how hard most Thais in the business work regardless of the level of venue, and i think they should be compensated for the work they do, and extra effort IMHO deserves a tip.

but these are just my opions, and you have yours, and i will leave what i choose in regard to a gratuity, and you can do the same, or not.

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So what you are saying is that if you were in the case of the OP, you would have left a tip of roughly 1600 Baht. So if he has just 1 customer a day like this, that would leave him with 48.000 Baht in tip a month. Not bad

no that is not what i said. i have no way of knowing what created a bill of 8,000 baht so i can not make a clear judgment, but if a poriton of that was for bottles of wine, which it could very well have been, i would have adjusted my tip to reflect the service and not the total cost of the experience .... as i wrote in my post, and not the cost of wine.

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Does anyone tip when there's a 10% service charge? I don't. Do the staff get this as an extra bonus or does the restaurant owner use it to pay their staff wages.

I'd really like to hear about this from someone in the business.

I have been in the hospitality business in the USA for 14 years and in Thailand for the last 22, and as I have been reading this topic I have read little that I did not expect. For me to try and explain my position as a career F & B worker to most of those who have posted here IMO would be as useless as most BMs here saying it is to tip a Thai. So I won't get too far into that.

To answer the question about who gets the 10% in Thailand I will say from my 22 years of experience in every type of venue from no star to 5 star, from BKK to Pats to Phuket, most hotel, restaurant and venue owners keep the better part of the 10% (if not all of it) and will pass on a few percentage to the staff (if any). So for those who think the staff are getting tipped too much because they see 10% on the bill as a service charge YOU ARE WRONG. FACT.

It is my concerted opinion that tipping is supposed to be an incentive for staff to work well, and IFO would prefer to not have the 10% automatically added to bill, and I would tip what I thought was commensurate with the level of service and quality of the rest of my meal (unlike so many who have posted to this topic). I tip between 10 and 20% dependent on many factors. If it is included and there is a large percentage of service charge related to having purchased some good bottles of wine then I will adjust my tip accordingly (lower) and keep in mind the level of overall service and food, rather than the total of the entire bill.

If I am in an upscale venue and they have already levied a 10% service charge, and I feel I got exemplary service, I will still add what I think would balance out to 15 or 20%. But I have to say that after being in the F & B business on 2 continents for a total of 36 years, most decent, hardworking staffs deserve to get paid a livable wage, deserve to get tipped when it’s commensurate with the level of service they have provided, and should be treated with respect.

But if they are lazy, unfriendly, poor servers, or request/demand to be tipped I do not and I will take the time to let them know why I have not. Many times I will tell management, leave comments on social media pages, or write to management about what I feel is deficient.

IFO thinks it’s all about having a balanced approach and i tip/comment accordingly.

Also keep in mind that in 99.99% of all TH F & B venues any tips/service charge, including those left on the table, will be shared by ALL the staff - front of the house, back of the house, parking/valet, bar, toilet, whatever. The only tip a worker may keep for themselves is the one placed directly into their hand, and most often they will still throw that into the general tip pool for all to share.

Further, to keep this all in perspective I do not tip when I eat on the street or in fast food places. But even in a typical TH shop house restaurant if the service was good I will leave a small tip relative to the cost of the meal, if there was a server, and the service was good/attentive. Being an expat of so many years I typically eat in the same places time and again, and like some BMs have stated, rational tipping goes a long way to getting consistnetly good service, food and beverages as time goes on.

If it’s a bar venue I tip the bartender so that they will remember what I like, how I like it, and so I get a fair pour each and every time. IFO think that those few baht go a long way for me to get what I want and to have a good time.

When I am at work training staff I spend a lot of time on trying to impress them with the fact that customers are not required to leave anything (10% included or not) and that the only way to encourage a customer to tip is to simply provide a high level of friendly professional service. But I also try to teach them not to expect that to yield results either (as shown by many posts on this thread) and to simply provide the best level of service that they can each and every time, and eventually that in and of itself should yield a reward for them.

Contrary to what a lot of people think on this board, having a service job and dealing with the public (and their high expectations and many times plantation attitude), and all the related stress that brings is most often not easy. People who do this work should be compensated accordingly like anyone else who wakes up each day and goes out to earn an honest wage.

And yes, I am an American, and that should have nothing to do with this discussion.

Despite the fact that I don't know who IFO is, I disagree with you, particularly the last part about it being hard work and they deserve it.

Most jobs are hard, most are harder than waiting tables. It is a job for unskilled laborers. So what makes them deserve a tip when very few other occupations are ever tipped. And yes I have also worked in the industry. I was a very good cook at a steak and pizza place, making a lot of tips for the waitresses. They always made sure to bring back the compliments but they kept the cash. And they brought home more money than me.

IFO = I For One

did you do this work in Thailand? we are discussing Thai venues and Thai service staff, or at least that is what i thought this topic was partly.

and when i was a Chef in America i did not expect waitstaff, who got considerably less per hour than i did as a chef, to share tips with me. i was paid by the house and i accepted what i got or moved on to a place where i felt the compensation and benefits were worthy of the time and effort i put into my job and my expertise.

BTW: the Thai system is one of sharing, so they do it, and some even share when they are given individual tips on the side.

and IMHO anyone who thinks that waiting tables is most often an easy job is wrong and delussional.

but that is just my honest opinon and you are entitled to yours.

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to all of you who are bashing TH beef, times have changed and you have obviously never had the pleasure of eating KU Beef (available fresh in Makro): http://www.kubeef.com/index.php

Would that be Makro nation wide or at a particular Makro near your home? Too bad they don't have an English language option.

i first had KU beef in Phuket and we purchased it in the original Phuket Town main Makro (i have no idea if its in the Chalong or Patong locations) ... i do not know how wide the distribution is across TH ... KU Beef as i understand it is a university/govt ag dept program and they can only produce a limited amount as the herd is not too large. i do know that when the major floods hit the country a few years back it caused big problems for them and it was a slow recovery to get back up to speed.

about 2 years ago i had a TH chef that i worked with call them and ask them about distribution/delivery, and back then they were taking orders for shipment by bus to anywhere in TH. its not an easy negotiation/discussion though (and it was even difficult for the TH chef who knows what they are talking about) as they are never quite sure what will be available and in what quantities. but i find KU beef worth the hassle of sourcing, in particular the topsides (makes a great roast beef), brisket, and the bavette steaks.

i would think that anyone who has a good freezer would be able to arrange for a shipment to be delivered. if i recall back then the minimum order was not that much, but the more you did order the shipping costs would be better amortized.

to all of you who are bashing TH beef, times have changed and you have obviously never had the pleasure of eating KU Beef (available fresh in Makro): http://www.kubeef.com/index.php

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Hi all -

I just launched an alternative to Movie Seer –

www.moveedoo.com

I was getting so frustrated with the Movie Seer site so knocked this out. There are still a number of bugs, and I've only got listings for the Major Cineplex group (but for all of Thailand) as well as RCA, Scala and Lido.

I'll be continuing to work on this so please check in regularly.

Thanks!

Gordon

thanks for the effort but it is rather cumbersome and there are no search options that i can see.

i would think that a site of this type would invovle very complex scripting.

there is no distinciton made as to the sound track language, suntitles, 2-D or 3-D, iMax etc.

no theater contact info, class of theater, or specific addresses either.

possibly showing the theaters, movies and times in a spread sheet format would be more advantageous. not so appealing design-wise, but at least all the info is there.

Hopefully this will only appear once.

So I am not accused of only detracting from the thread. One of my favourites from Spain was a Grilled/Toasted Serano Ham and Roquefort sandwich.

RabC how much did it cost in Spain figured in Baht, since Serrano varies from 8-900B a kilo or more and cheapest Roquefort here is over 1000B a kilo to almost 2000B...so to make it here it we would have to sell for

600B and thats on the cheaper end probably more !

i find one way to get around the high cost of bleu or gorganzola is to make a spread or a dressing and use that on the sandwich, or as a dip on the side.

back in 2000 i opened an American style diner in Jomtien near the Hunaman statue with my UK partner. it was called Jigsaw, and despite the critical acclaim from the local press and our customers we sold the place and shut the doors after a year for lack of sufficient trade ... but back in 2000 Jomtien was still considered to be the darkside of the moon and the local population of expats and the number of tourists was a fraction of what it is now, and TH was still suffering from the crash of the baht which was good for tourists but not local businesses ... most of the sois running off of the beach were nothing but abandoined shells of condos and retail shops.

this was the sanwqich section of ourt menu ... BTW: the BBQ Pork S/W on the butter-grilled Kaiser roll was the biggest seller ... note the price structure form 2000.

HOT & HEAVY HANDFULL SANDWICHES

ITEMS # 40 THRU 42 ARE ALL SERVED ON A SOFT LONG ROLL

ITEMS # 43 & 44 ARE BOTH SERVED ON MANFRED’S KAISER ROLL

40.) Steak & Cheese—Grilled Sliced Steak, Mushrooms and Onions with Melted Cheese, Coleslaw, French Fries and a Pickle 160B

41.) Cajun Chicken--Blackened Chicken Meat, Grilled Mushrooms & Onions and Remoulade Sauce Served with Coleslaw, French Fries and a Pickle 100B

42.) Oven-baked Ham & Cheese Served with Coleslaw French Fries and a Pickle 100B

43.) Oven-baked Eggplant Parmesan—Fried Eggplant Slices Tomato Sauce and Mozzarella Cheese Served with French Fries 90B

44.) Oven-baked Chicken Parmesan—Fried Breaded Boneless Chicken Tomato Sauce and Mozzarella Cheese Served with French Fries 100B

45.) Oven-baked Sausage and Peppers--Grilled Italian Style Sausages, Onions and Sweet Peppers with Tomato Sauce and Mozzarella Cheese Served with French Fries 150B

46.) Cajun Fish Fillet—Blackened Pla Krapong, Lettuce, Tomato and Remoulade Sauce Served with Coleslaw French Fries and a Pickle 135B

47.) Western Omelet—with OR without Cheese Served with French Fries 95B

48.) jigsaw Sandwich of the Day Priced Accordingly

OVER-SIZED, STEAMING HOT, OPEN-FACED AMERICAN DINER STYLE SANDWICHES ON TEXAS BREAD

WITH GRAVY, MASHED POTATOES AND BUTTERED VEGETABLES

50.) Roast Beef 160B

51.) Roast Pork 130B

52.) Grilled Chicken 125B

53.) Ground Beef Steak 130B

BIG HOT FAT AND SLOPPY B-B-Q SANDWICHES ON A BUTTER-GRILLED KAISER ROLL

ALL ARE SERVED WITH COLESLAW AND FRENCH FRIES

57.)Your Choice of:

A.) Chicken 95B

B.) Beef 135B

C.) Pork 100B

SUPER SANDWICH CONSTRUCTIONS 3-D TEXAS TOAST BREAD OR A SOFT LONG ROLL

ALL MADE WITH LETTUCE, TOMATO & MAYONNAISE & ALL ARE SERVED WITH COLESLAW, FRENCH FRIES & A PICKLE

60.) Ham 90B

61.) Cheese 90B

62.) Ham & Cheese 100B

63.) Roast Pork 95B

64.) Bacon, Lettuce & Tomato 85B

65.) Classic American Club House 115B

66.) Tuna, Caper & Olive Salad 115B

67.) Chicken Breast 100B

68.) Egg Salad 85B

69.) Jigsaw Sanwich of the Day Priced Accordingly

Katz's Pastrami on Rye, world famous, never copied or equaled ...

i will say your version in Phuket was close, but the NY Rye was the missing ingredient ... like pizza in NYC everyone says its the water that goes into the dough that can make all the difference ... and a Dr Brown's soda to wash it down with ...

this is an awesome thread, thanks to everyone who has contributed.

Exercising your right to protest peacefully is a democratic right. It also appears to be a dangerous thing to do these days.

I agree that protesting peacefully is fine in the right place BUT blocking roads, bridges, causing economic hardship and major inconvience to others etc is not! Protest in a field some place and not in the centre of Bangkok as one gets tired of selfish ass*oles pushing their own agenda without the slightest thought for others!

... drink their beers and enjoy their katoys and girls ...

how does a comment like that help support your arguement? 555

i have not posted here in ages, and one reason is i grew tierd the the ranting back and forth about who should stay and who should leave, and who really understands and loves this country and its people. also the moralizing about what kind of farng one may be, or where they choose to live in TH having some sort of connotation good or bad. that said, i still come here to TVF toget the news and most inportantly, opinions, hopefully from learned board membes with knowlege, experience and expertise.

so .... here are my opinons and views and also some "hearsay" i have been told over the years.

DISCLAIMER: if i am wrong about some of the issues i mention please simply enlighten me to the truth of the matter and dopn't bash me as i am already telling you this is what i have heard and may not be accurate. i am seeking clarification.

i was told long ago (been here since 1988) that much of the fire department is made up of guys who wanted to be policemen but they flunked that exam and were offerred jobs as fire fighters. if so, what does that say about the intelligence level of those entrusted to operate this important service?

second, i was also under the impression that the fire department is a part of the police department and in many respects they are empowered to do what's necessary.

third, i was also told by other long-term expats, and quite a few Thai people, that many times the fire department shows up and will not start to work until given a "tip" to do so.

fourth, it is already stated by the TH authorities in charge that there were no sprinkler heads although the rest of the sytem seems to be there. law or not, this is a serious flaw that speaks volumes.

final point, and not a conspiracy theory just mentioning it as a possibility as all things are possible: if the owners wanted the old builidng down then a Saturday when it is closed would have been the perfect time to do that. and, IF THAT WERE THE CASE, they would have most likely availed themselves of the "local system" and called ahead and asked them to delay arrival, of course for a "tip". NOT LIKELY, BUT ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE IN ANY COUNTRY, AND REGARDLESS OF THE NATIONALITY OF THE OWNERS, but we have seen crazier things happen here in the past.

sooooooooooooooo, can anyone address these points and either confirm or repudiate them for me please?

thanks.

Low season is a very tough time this year for all in the tourism biz in Phuket, granted. And, you can't blame operators for going out against the known conditions. But, they should issue stern warnings to customers about it. Not sure if that's done or not. Doubt it.

you can, and should blame operators, captains, tour agents and the local authorities.

why are the police not at the boat ramp warning folks, checking equipment, and deciding on whether to prevent the boat from leaving port altogether, or not? similar to any other government agency, that is supposedly empowered with safeguarding the public good (to protect people from themselves, profiteers, their own ignorance, or a tout who keeps telling them it is ok, etc.) this needs to be done.

the same thing happens at airports when the weather is bad, and people never question the authorities about that. boating and flying are the same in this regard, the public just has less of an awareness of the things that could happen at sea in this weather, especially when the boat operator shows a willingness to go out in severe weather, which tends to cloud the issue.

it is someone's life. better an inconvenience than a death or injury.

and it should be stated upon booking or when reserving such services, that the weather may cancel, delay or re-schedule said service, and monies refunded if need be.

the police need to not only do this because it is right and makes sense, it also prevents the bad press that has shadowed Thai tourism for years. All this does is scare people away from Thailand and that means dollars down the drain.

i work in the tourism/hospitality business, and i know personally how this affects business, and the lives of the locals who work them. the few operators are just that, operators, and they have a mercenary/immediate business sense of mind, not a safety or future business sense of mind. one foolish act like this, not only costs lives, but untold dollars in national GNP.

Parvez Book Store

Mr. Mohamed Anwar

419 Chulia St. 10200 Penang, Malaysia

i have also used Parvez off and on since 1992.

they are honest and truthful, have great communication skills and understand fully your mindset and the importance of the task at hand.

they are always polite and have never been late with the return of my documents.

others may have something else to say about Parvez, but i find them easy and painless to deal with.

and, it has always been one of two guys over all of these years that are there to assist.

i have also rented motor bikes from them, never had a glitch with that either, nor with changing money, getting photos and any thing else you may need in Penang.

i have always stayed at the Hong Ping Hotel on Chulia street.

chinese owned and managed, small rooms, but clean.

polite staff and they have taken reservations by phone and Fax.

they may try to avoid that, but just say that you are a business person that needs to confirm and that you have stayed there before.

also give them your flight number if coming by air, that usually seals the deal with them.

it is a popular place for Chinese business people, so do not expect to find a room on arrival unless you arrive before noon and are able to get one that is being vacated.

//advertising removed - google for information//

NOTE: the only thing i suggest with Hong Ping is bring a towel if you are the kind of person who likes a towel and not a dish cloth after showering.

downstairs there used to be (don't know if it is still there) a chinese vegetarian restaurant that serves up a great buffet lunch.

truly authentic, hand-made, in-house vegetarian, something that BKK does not have a lot of.

if it is gone, there is another one near the police station, if my memory serves me well, it is on the right side of the station when facing the front door.

enjoy, not easy to do in Penang if u have been more than once.

Drastic action against drunk drivers in Songkran revels

BANGKOK: -- Police will take tough action against those who drink and drive as well as a ban on those defying a ban on the use of high-pressure water guns and powder to ensure safe celebrations during Songkran festival or the traditional Thai New Year.

And for the rest of the year?

i will add my name to the list of folks who has had these very same things happen to me, the wife and child, all in pattaya.

further, i have a skin condition that is related to a bacterial infection, it causes the skin on the soles of my feet, ankles and plams to dry up and peel off. this condition started a few weeks after sonkran 1999. it lingers to this day. the doctors at the pattaya hospital looked at it the first time and the only question i was asked was, did u get klong water on you during songkran? i did. the last day of that year's festival someone drove by a beer bar i was at on beach road and shot water out of a high pressure hose that was fed by klong water in a 55 gallon drum in the back of their vehicle. i work in food service and this is not a good thing when you must meet and greet the public.

the guests at our hotel that year were especially angry and said they would never come back to thailand because they felt they had been lied to about the holiday and what it was really about and how long it was for. one couple had just come from chiang mai and they said they thought the festival was over (they had been told it was over), but when they got to pattaya it was still on for about a week. they were unable to leave the hotel and being elderly folks they just had no desire to partake in the water throwing. bottom line, most farangs do not like the new version of this holiday.

i say new because the old ancient ways of songkran are quite sedate and reverent in nature, a true family event that has a lot to do with paying respect and making merit for a good harvest season and upcoming year.

i will be in hong kong for this year's festival, i try to get away from it when i can. this is what many thais do now too. reservations out of thailand tend to max out at this time of the year, and it is thais who are flying out to avoid the holiday "fun". seems a lot of folks are fed up with the whole ordeal.

I wish you well in your effort to turn the Thailand travel experience into a Switch watch. Mind you I do not go out of my way to find a bad experience, but one of the reasons I like it here is the unpredictability. Some of the most memorable and funny experiences have happened when things did not go exactly according to plan. I do not particularly care if a few tourists do not have a good time in Thailand. The vast majority of people that visit LOS love it just the way it is. I think the efforts to change it has made it less attractive.

Cheers

i understand and appreciate what you are saying about the little quirky things of which you speak. and i am not trying to turn thailand into a "Swicth watch", just the services that demand it. i to love these quirky types of things that pop-up when travelling, but only when it is within certain acceptable bounds. even the great hotelier conrad hilton has said that people who do not venture from their hotel and see the real sites are not travellers but collectors of experiences to be shelved and forgotten, so why leave home to begin with if they plan on living in a perfect hotel room for the duration of their travels?

but what this topic, and the emphasis of my discussion is about is not that - it is about a national airport where certain services are expected and required to meet a safety and service standard that is based on a global standard, and they were not. once you leave the ariport sure, have an adventure, but not at the airport, train station or ferry, etc.

i was unable to make change that night, and at that time of night for someone with family and luggage and real things to control and worry about why should they be subjected to having a bkk taxi driver's response to being handed eithier foreign cash or big bills. i think we all know what can happen.

that is the point that no one seems to get here.

safety, choice, flexability and comfort were not really considered in the re-opening day Don Muang scenario. geting the cash cow back in the barn was.

i guess it is difficult for people who are not tasked with this work to know and comprehend the sheer amount of and the topics of most tourist's comments about travel here in LOS. if you had to interact and satisfy these paying customers as we do, on a 24/7 basis, i think it would be self-evident that most travellers expect, want and should be provided with these most basic things at a point of entry.

yes, they wish to be surprised and amazed we all do, but they still want basic services and they were not provided on that night.

and i do not believe that everyone who has replied to my posts just shrugs these things off continuously, bites the bullet and says mai phen rai, day after day when they are the brunt of the problem. it just suits your position at this time to say it is all ok, all of the time. and if you are the kind of folks who are going to say that to live in thailand you need to love the place and the people, why would you not want to see an improvement in their lives and work place? not change their character, just the manner in which things get addressed and accomplished. the days of one step forward and two steps back need to cease, while retaining thai cultural diversity and integrity and the ecology/environment.