mtnthai

Ouch!

If anyone has his cell number give the dude a call and tell him how to get to King 3 in Patpong. He just got a shot at a new profession.

Bettyer than the US version of a burning bed I guess, but its all how you look at it.

I HAVE JUST HEARD FROM THE FAMILY AND THEIR AUNT IS NOW OUT OF HARMS WAY BY HAVING GOTTEN THE BLOOD SHE SO BADLY NEEDED.

THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR AMAZING EFFORTS AND LEVEL OF CONCERN. THIS IS TRULY ONE ASPECT OF THE FARANG COMMUNITY THAT NOT ALLOT OF PEOPLE REALIZE EXISTS, SELFLESSLY PULLING TOGETHER WHEN THE CRUNCH COMES.

To see how this thread developed, and how many others in the future may be assisted in their times of need as a result, is also very encourageing and overwhelming.

Khun Plam, his family, and of course his Aunt ,are greatful to you all. I do not know who it was that gave, but that is not the issue now really. Someone stepped up to the plate when asked too and that speaks volumes in itself.

Due to the fact that this family is under allot of stress at this time there will be no further need to call them or the hospital any more.

Best to All,

Good Helath and Regards,

David

mtnthai

Although we have yet to find anyone who fits the criteria I would like to say thanks to all.

In just about 3 hours 329 people have read their emails and gone to see the post.

I will assume it is in an effort to help.

This group of Thai Visa Forum members is always great with their responsiveness to the needs of the community as a whole and I commended you all.

At least our little corner of the world is functioning today.

Regards,

mtnthai

Here is the contact information for the hospital:

Address:

670/1 Paholyothin Road

Samsennai

Phyathai

Bangkok 10400

Tel:

0-2271-0227

0-2279-7000-9

As this is a very specific and rare blood type I advise that you call them and get very specific information before going down if you believe that you fit the criteria.

Thanks for all the help and concern.

Regards,

mtnthai

--------------------------------------

Blood plasma found, thanks for all your help!

---------------------------------------------------------

PLEASE HELP THIS FAMILY IF YOU CAN.

THIS IS A VERY RARE AND HARD TO FIND BLOOD TYPE IN THAILAND

AND ANY HELP WILL BE APPRECIATED.[/b]

REGARDS,

MTNTHAI

Dear All

I need your supporting to my aunt now she is in the St.Paolo Hospital Bkk. And wating for the Blood group "B" without "Anti I" and "Anti MIA" Her name is Mrs.Kanha Preaw Thip or call me at [xxxxxxxxxx] or directly to The Hospital URGENT. Thank you

Rgds,

Palm

Forced censorship has never been the cure for any social ills.

Self-censorship and education are the key. And, although your family upbringing is not a garentee, it does help a lot to frame someone's sensibilities, morals and ethics. You gotta be raised right.

As long as the individuals in charge, be they elected, appointed or mentored, feel as if and are allowed to act as if they are above the law, everyone else will do as they please and when they choose to. It is a universal malady and no society or culture seems to be immune.

Example: The republican administration of America has accomlished so much in the last 4 years through its lies and deciet and their disregard for people and human life in general (especially in regard to people looking the other way when atrocities are commited) that half the nation has bought into it. So, I guess it can happen anywhere if it can happen in an "educated" society.

Nice description of The Peoples Republic of Vermont

It is hard for me to decern what the intent of your post is, but I think it is sarcasm.

Be that as it may, fact is Vermont was a Republic and a selfsufficent one, before joing the Union. Yet all decisions were and still are made at Town Meetings, Zoning Meetings and caucuses, and anyone may participate and vote. Not at all like a “People’s Republic…” (see below)

Vermont still is a state of independent thinkers and community activists. You could never find a better example of a populace that is for the inclussion and betterment of all. Proof of this is the fact that it has become one of the most desireable places to live within America (similar to Alaka, Hawaii, Washington and Oregon), property values are stable and continue to rise and (back to the main thread here) it is still pristine and habitable. Just to mention a few of the benefits.

History and Philosophical Background of the Vermont Republic

In 1777, in the midst of the revolutionary turmoil of colonial America, a small tract of land, claimed by all its neighbors, declared itself an independent republic capable of regulating all internal affairs. For fourteen years, the people of Vermont stood alone against the world controlled by its powerful neighbors as a beacon of freedom. Indeed, their constitution was among the first in the world to ban the practice of human slavery. Finally, it submitted to the terms of statehood under severe pressure from the Continental Congress. The Vermont Republic was no more.

In the words of a great Vermont patriot, who was a driving force in the fight for independence and came to the aid of Georg Washington when he most needed it and the situation was dire:

"DON"T TREAD ON ME"

-Ethan Allen -

Leader of the Green Mountain Boys

They needed no Patriot Act, they were True Patriots acting of there own free will for the good of the whole. And, still do to this day!!!.

The Vermont guy wrote a sensible submission, however, it's too logical and would demand certain effort, it would conclusively be totally unsuitable for Thailand.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Can+Asian...n=20&fl=0&x=wrt

which is why i say i know that i am preaching to the choir

As for ovenman's statement about Howard Dean.

Howard Dean, despite having lost the nomination, has created a true grassroots movement and an awarness about the democratic process (not party) that is unprecedented in politics, be they American or otherwise.

What Howard Dean has done is reminded people that they can and should determine their own country's destiny. They must all be involved and contribute, or watch it all being taken away from them.

He has proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that small individual efforts ($$$), coupled with good organization and focus, can and do override the efforts of the big mega companies and concerns (lobbyists) who seek to usurp the power and the rights of the regular citzen and small business and control their lives and the future of their children.

Every country needs a few Howard Deans.

Once again I will enter a forum by relating my common experience from back in my home state of Vermont in the US.

Vermont, like Chiang Mai, is situated among green rolling hills and mountains. It is lush and abundant in rivers, lakes and stream. Wildlife is plentiful and diverse and tourism and agriculture are its biggest industries.

When my family moved there from suburban New York to escape the sprawl of the post WW2 boom of the ‘50’s and ‘60’s we thought we had died and gone to heaven. But very soon after the ravages of tourism and development, the same ones that plague Chiang Mai half way around the world today, were going unchecked. But unlike Chiang Mai the people and the government not only put new stringent laws and regulations into effect, they enforced them. Many said that it would halt prosperity and ruin their business but government and the scientist’s that advised them persisted. Vermont is now a jewel of a state that benefits immensely from its reputation of being one of the few places so easily accessible, yet almost pristine.

Zoning regulations and ecological statutes are what saved Vermont from the fate that Chiang Mai now suffers.

I remember the day that people all over the state went out with chain saws and torches and literally overnight cut down and removed every single sign in the state that was over a certain size. And that was 99% of them. The state then issued standard regulation signs with consistent icons and colors, relative to the business being promoted, to those who wanted them. These signs were designed, produce, installed and are maintained by the state and paid for through tax revenues and signage fees. These signs are only allowed placement no further than 2 miles (and in some cases 1 mile) from the business being promoted. They are strictly informational/directional in nature. They do not promote. All businesses, big or small, have an equal visibility to the prospective customer.

Businesses were then allowed to have a certain number of signs on their property and premises that also met strict criteria which is governed by the municipality where the business is situated. Lighting and all the other elements are strictly outlined and the rules enforced.

They raised the fine for littering form 50 dollars to 500 dollars, and enforced it, with all revenues going to maintain the states roads, fragile ecosystems and environment. Buildings, parking lots and sewerage disposal are all a part of the zoning rules and regulations to name just a few. If a town has too many of a particular type of business locals can go to a town meeting and declare by vote a moratorium on similar businesses being opened if the so choose. Then recommendations are made concerning businesses that are missing and needed within the community. True Democracy, for the good of the majority (common wealth), at work. And, the list goes on.

Consulting the professionals, the populace and the business community achieved all of this. All of it was voted on and not imposed from a federal government far removed from Vermont. All of it is strictly enforced and constantly revised and updated to keep up with the growing knowledge and applications that lend themselves to improving the state.

As a result of this Vermont is a destination for people from all over the world, as is Chiang Mai. The big difference being this: The people who travel to and tour Vermont get what they expected and paid for ten fold and they come back. Plus, Vermont is still there for those who will follow them in the future, and most importantly, Vermont is still a great place for those who choose to make it there home.

It is all about planning, implementation and application, adjustment when warranted and most of all, not being selfish and having proper, balanced and fair ENFORCEMENT.

ps- Too bad writing this stuff is always the equivalent of preaching to the choir.

Any Kiwis care to speak up? New Zealand is truly one of the best examples of how to maintain and sustain.

The entire bubble was floated on the tragic Oriental mentality and concept of "Face"...

They mistakenly believed the Farang like to throw money away for the sake of "Face", so launched the "Elite" card to choruses of raspberries all round.

RIP

This is surely the reason.

Well said.

This excuse, “I was drunk.” Doesn’t cut it when you’re mouthing off and being a boorish ass nor does it cut it when you are having sex or driving a car for that matter. Being drunk is just a lame excuse no matter what. If you cannot drink and control yourself stay home.

Nothing that anyone (including myself) can write here is really of much meaning given the fact that if you have the basic language skills to read the articles and reply in any way you have got to understand the issue and its severity. Whether you choose to write something daring or flippant or whether you choose to write a few words of caution we all know what this is about. Slow, agonizing and lonely death.

I am a child of the ‘60’s. We were the first generation to have access to the pill and free love, as we called it, a great combination that seemed to be a gift bestowed upon us. However, HIV / AIDS was lurking just around the corner.

I first came here in 1988. I was a simple backpacker out to see Asia. I had no idea that Patpong or the rest of the sex industry existed until I was here and someone introduced me to it. At that point the media blitz about HIV / AIDS was in full swing in the States and starting to go worldwide.

As a teenager growing up in New York I had little use for escorts and places like strip joints, which were the US equivalent to go-go bars, because I was sleeping with the greatest little hippie chicks the world has ever known and for gratis. There was absolutely no reason to have to avail myself of the services of a working girl. But, when I first laid eyes on Patpong many years later I thought to myself, this is great I think I’ll take a dip in this pool and I did. The only apprehension I had at the time was about the use of the condoms, I knew that I had too, but I had never had the need before in my life.

Upon paying my first ever bar fine (235 Baht / beers were 30 baht / ladies drink 40) I was presented with my change and a condom. All my dreams and problems were resolved in one smart action. The bar had provided me with the means, the protection, but most of all, the mindset required for the evening’s activities.

Needless to say after twenty years of bareback I was not to enthusiastic with the results of such a necessity but I persisted and adjusted and had some great times.

These were the days when the girls proudly flashed their little blue and green medical check-up books, volunteers dressed as condoms roamed the street preaching the commandments as set down by Dr. Meechai and banners were stretched across Patpong Road reminding us to be vigilant. And, as the article and history will show it all seemed to work.

But as time wore on and the system of prevention accomplished its task many others and I became complacent. (Also, as the girls rotated out of the business and new ones came to work they were younger and inexperienced and lacking the proper sexual education.) We yearned for the “good old days” and started to think that we were immune, supermen as it were, because we heard so little about infection. We made the mistake of confusing the results of the program with the idea that the disease really wasn’t out there.

I personally fell into a pattern over a 3 to 4 year period of neglect; luckily for me and all of my partners, nothing happened. Then one day I woke up and asked myself what the heck am I thinking and after that revelation I never went out in the rain without my rubbers again.

In the fifteen years that I have been here I have only seen or heard of a handful of cases within the communities of Patpong, Nana and Cowboy. I am sure there were many more, but that was always kept from us.

The point of all of this is: I think that the time has come, as the experts have stated, to get HIV / AIDS back out in the open where we are confronted with it’s realities on a daily basis. Require the bar owners to supply good decent condoms with every bar fine. (At today’s rates they can afford it.) Tell the mama sans to insist that the customers respect the realities of the day and protect their girls. Educate and remind the girls that oil based lubricants are of absolutely no use and counter-productive to their physical safety. Put the posters back into the restrooms that used to educate customers to the problems and get people talking again.

The desire for sex is not going away, the sex industry is not going away and HIV / AIDS is surely not going away. (Especially considering that most governments do not really see it as a priority and they just make statements about it to be politically correct.) We must once again police ourselves in the bedroom.

A person should be considered "Innocent unless proven guilty". The statement "Innocent until proven guilty" implies the finding of guilt as inevitable.

  This should be a fundamental right for anyone in any country, anything else and the police can act as judge, jury, and executioner.

  Maybe I stand alone on this but I don't trust anyone's judgement  that much.

That said investigate the alleged crime and act accordingly.

Thank you "CMguy" for correcting my English.

Yes, it is innocent UNLESS proven guilty. But now that this bit of language has been clairified I think the intentin of my post is the same now and carries with it the same opinion/perspective.

As for "abbas" and the post:

WEll i think the best wise saying is

GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT

that pice of S**T should be hanged

thank you reading this lil post have nothing else to say.

takecare uall.

I will refer to my last post and ask again. Are you someone who is willing to be judged, convicted and sentenced carried out all with the same blatant lack of due process as you so easily wish to judge another by? I think not.

What is it about this particular type of crime that makes so many people think that it is the OK and proper thing to put aside the law, drag the alleged perpatrator into the town pit and cast stones at him tuntil he is dead? I employ this particular scenario because it dates back to the middle ages and the Spanish Inquisition, times that I thought had passed.

Seems that some of the forum's members wish to return to the "good ole" days of yore. So I ask you, why stop there, why not take it to the next level? Hunch your backs and drag your knuckles while we're at it?

BUT there are two other “wise sayings” that I try to live by and I would hope are applied to me and anyone else for that matter should the need arise:

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY and QUESTION AUTHORITY.

How many innocents are doing time? Estimates on the “fair and equitable” USA penal system say about 17% of those currently incarcerated are innocent and wrongly accused.

Hitler has never been in court but I would not consider him innocent...I guess 'innocent until proven guilty' is not always valid; why are some people granted bail and some not for instance? The verdict is not there at that time but there appears to be some wild guesses about the chances on a guilty verdict and chances of skipping bail..

In no manner shape or form does my reference to INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY state or infer that this man should not go to court. Further, there is (at least appears to be for now) no body of evidence on this alleged crime in the magnitude that we find relative to Hitler and his cronies. (No smoking ovens if I may coin a dis-tasteful phrase.) I think you are comparing a firecracker with nuclear fission. Not even on the same planet this analogy of yours.

And as far as your second comment goes about bail, etc, INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY does not state or imply that someone should not be incarcerated without bail until such time as they are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. Which is why I said in my earlier post that an allegation of this magnitude should and must be investigated and followed up on to its conclusion. Not to do so is in itself a disservice to the law and the society that it is meant to protect. JUST DON"T PREJUGE BASED ON THE SEVERITY OF THE ALLEGATION.

Read and digest before you write should be the 3rd wise saying, chai-mai?

And to

jltheartHmm Let me see. You like little babys for sex. I hope you fuc___k die. Die in prison, Die in you cell. Die now. If I was there a heart attack would be your least problem. -

Suppose tomorrow you get picked up by the local police for whatever reason, let's say you do not have your passport on you and you LOOK like someone they are searching for. They through your oh-so-self-righteous-angry butt into Suan Plu lock-up while they are trying to determine if you are the guy they are looking for. Then some other detainee, who thinks like you do, decides to whack this alleged pedophile and kills him.

Now, you were asleep at the time in the corner of the same cell and had nothing to do with it, BUT somone sees your very angry posting here at the forum and you are then given the same lack of due process of which you speak, based solely on this angry posting. After all, you say you would seel retribution if you were in the same cell with him.

Hmmmmm, seems you did murder the alleged pedophile and now we have to put you against the wall and pull the trigger. Oh that's right, they don't shoot you anymore in the Kingdom, they use more humane penalties. Is this an unfair or bad comparrison?

Well, I have never been one to condone pedophilia or any other such reprehensible behaviors. And, if you do the crime, do the time. And, if he did, it needs to be “hard” time, if you catch my drift.

BUT there are two other “wise sayings” that I try to live by and I would hope are applied to me and anyone else for that matter should the need arise:

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY and QUESTION AUTHORITY.

How many innocents are doing time? Estimates on the “fair and equitable” USA penal system say about 17% of those currently incarcerated are innocent and wrongly accused. How many times have governments been WRONG, dead wrong? Everyday. Look at the world situation, as it exists right now.

We do not have the luxury of picking and choosing who is condemned by the press and innuendo, the system must apply to all concerned and all must be granted the time and means to plead their case, without prejudice or presumptive judgments, regardless of the severity or distastefulness of the crime in question. Other wise, society as a whole is doomed.

Everyone is so quick to judge in these forums where they are not seen and just heard. And, all of this judgment is based on nothing but a news article, pure hearsay.

So now you can go ahead and berate me if you will, accuse me of being soft and aligned with these people solely because I uphold their implicit rights, be my guest. Put the other foot in your mouth now.

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY and QUESTION AUTHORITY

Some peoples guilty and escape becomes no guilty and innocent.

some innocent simply innocent but become guilty ?

can you say that this man is no guilty ? Whose know ?

Evidence can be rewritten and erased with the smart guy legal adviser.

Dont look at one side of the moon and the other side is still brighter ???

Well, I really have very little to go on here because your English language skills are confusing the daylights (self-censorship there) out of me, but I will take a stab at it.

So, what you are trying to say is that anyone accused of this crime (or one similar in magnitude) whether guilty or not, should be assumed guilty, judged by no one and made to suffer the full brunt of the law simply because society frowns on this sort of behavior or he may get off? Why not go over to Silom Soi 4 and just start to extra-judicially whack those folks because they are suspected of leading an alternative lifestyle that most people find offensive? After all, “those kinds of people” seem to have a propensity to commit unlawful and distasteful acts, too.

It all sounds absurd and ludicrous doesn’t it? About as ludicrous as your response to my post I think. (Just my opinion.)

If you were to have read my submission and understood it fully you will know that the only issue I have brought up is that NO MATTER WHAT THIS MAN MAY HAVE OR MAY NOT HAVE DONE, and REGARDLESS OF THE NATURE OF THE ALLEGED CRIME, for society on the whole it is not wise to prejudge him. (This is what is going on here.) He should be afforded all the courtesy that the law provides and then a judgment should be made. He should then be made to suffer the full weight of the penalties assigned that crime if found guilty. THEN and only then drag him through the streets of Dodge, string him up and hang his butt in the town square for all to see and scorn. Othewise the punisment has served no purpose.

The system must also do its best to make certain that the proceedings are held in such a manner that there is no question of impropriety or tampering. We must fall back on the system and all of its checks and balances. The wheels of justice can turn rather slowly at times but that can be a good thing, too. (I know, what planet am I from? No need to ask. Planet Hippie, I guess.)

The nature of this alleged crime is grave. And, to disregard any signs that would point to such an occurrence would be irresponsible. It needs to be investigated, fully. Just wait before you hang this person. To pre-judge and convict him in the press or a forum like this is as big a disservice to the public good as the crime itself.

Society must always take the chance that justice will slip and some will make it through the system unscathed, that happens from time to time. But I ask you, which is worse? People getting off and going free, or people being wrongly accused and their lives irrevocably destroyed? And who is it that will make that judgment, you? All because we want to find someone guilty? The only purpose I can see that that would serve is to remove our own guilt and shame that we wrongly associated with someone else’s crime and our/societies inability to have prevented it.

OK, now you can start to bash me again. But firs, this time PLEASSSSSSE read what I have written and digest it before hurling your words about.

What planet are you living on???

Ur-anus?

Texas-ville?

Yeah, that's it, Texas-ville.

Well, I have never been one to condone pedophilia or any other such reprehensible behaviors. And, if you do the crime, do the time. And, if he did, it needs to be “hard” time, if you catch my drift.

BUT there are two other “wise sayings” that I try to live by and I would hope are applied to me and anyone else for that matter should the need arise:

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY and QUESTION AUTHORITY.

How many innocents are doing time? Estimates on the “fair and equitable” USA penal system say about 17% of those currently incarcerated are innocent and wrongly accused. How many times have governments been WRONG, dead wrong? Everyday. Look at the world situation, as it exists right now.

We do not have the luxury of picking and choosing who is condemned by the press and innuendo, the system must apply to all concerned and all must be granted the time and means to plead their case, without prejudice or presumptive judgments, regardless of the severity or distastefulness of the crime in question. Other wise, society as a whole is doomed.

Everyone is so quick to judge in these forums where they are not seen and just heard. And, all of this judgment is based on nothing but a news article, pure hearsay.

So now you can go ahead and berate me if you will, accuse me of being soft and aligned with these people solely because I uphold their implicit rights, be my guest. Put the other foot in your mouth now.

What's with all this negativity out there?! Programs like that have been in operation in Australia for years and work! Even if there is a takeup rate of only let's say 1% will mean that there is a few (dozen?) drunk drivers less on the road and what's so bad about that????

Good start anyway

I agree and I have suggested this in two other posts previously.

Of course eduaction is the key, but to help save the lives of the innocents, most particularly, it is worth it.

If someone is caught driving drunk and has not requested the sevice than the full extent of the law should be levied on them before they are driven home and they should be fined, too.

The idea is to assist and aid the innocent victims that are always the brunt of this type of irresponsible behavior.

I also think that if it can be done in such a way as to eliminate any embarassment or shame for the drunk, if he pre-orders, that wil also be an asset. No one likes to lose face, most especially, the locals.

I am just being a realist and saying there are some necessary evils out there and sometimes the governments are just profiting in any way they can find from the misfortune of others.

mouse, rather than being flippant and counter-productive would you care to be a little more in-depth and lucid on these "points" you bring up?

The fact is, there are proven solutions to this worldwide problem and they do not infringe upon those who are being responsible and put the onus and the cost on those who choose not to be. Too bad it does require a consistent commitment and enforcement, which at times is elusive at best.

Further, I see/read noone posting here and preaching perfect world, abstinence or dreams, just education, constraint, accountability and responsibility. Not a lot to ask.

It is when people just keep saying things like, its not a perfect world and making ludicrous statements about a serious matter that nothing ever gets done or improves and things do continue to slide down hill until they are right on our own doorstep.

Let's just hope that you are not the one to cause the grief and suffering or that you should be the recipient of such grief and suffering caused by irresponsible behaviors that can be corrected over time given the proper levels of commitment.

Fact is, if it can be done in the kind of place like I mentioned, Vermont (where people fought the statutes every step of the way and made broad sweeping statements about how futile it was to think it could be rectified, that it infringed on peoples rights and did nothing positive or for the public good) then it won’t change. Vermont has brought the rate of road fatalities down by over 50% since they chose to do something about it. Not a bad statistic if you ask me. Better than the ones we are reading here now.

Seems to me we wrote about this a while ago (New Years was it?) or some such similar subject and once again here is my 2 bahts worth on the subject.

Note: Myself, having been a liquor license holder in the after-mentioned local and having undergone the thourogh scrutiny of a state investigation following the death of one of my patrons (who was driving a motorcycle after drinking), I take these issues to heart and from personal experience. Please also note that I have been partying since the tender age of 13, I am in no way a "prissy tea tottler", nor do I think that you can control peoples habits and morals with excessive laws; education and consistent enforcement of sensible statutes is the key.

I come from the great, green state of Vermont in the USA and we have had very strict alcohol regulations and enforcement for over two decades now. The result was an immediate and dramatic drop in highway fatalities and injury to persons and property. It was met with much debate at first but has since been embraced by all, as the results were amazingly positive and conducive to the public good and business.

Some of the laws are as follows:

1.) No happy hours, but you can have a happy drink of the day. This means no power drinking and the customers still get a deal but it is one that does not contribute to accident statistics in the manner of a happy hour.

2.) Food must be served in any drinking establishment. Insurance rates for the establishment are based on a ratio of food revenues to alcohol revenues after the first year.

3.) Bartenders are trained and licensed by the state in responsible bartending. If they serve someone who then has an accident they must face a fine, or imprisonment, or both and their employers establishment can be closed for a period of time, and that results in higher liability insurance rates to the establishment when it re-opens. Plus they may no longer tend bar in Vermont.

Perhaps, mini-mart staff and the like could also undrgo such training. By the way, most of this program in Vermont is funded by tax revenues collected for the purchase of alcohol.

4.) Any one buying drinks for a minor, or a person already shut off by the bartender, can be fined and imprisoned, or both.

5.) Any one found to be driving and drinking is in immediate loss of their privilege to drive if failing a Breathalyzer test. (I believe this is the only offense that an officer of the law does not require a judge to pass sentence on. It may be appealed but that person is not driving in the mean time.)

6.) A bartender may continue to serve a person if they turn over their keys and sign a statement that they will not drive with an additional set of keys, before becoming intoxicated.

7.) No open beverage containers allowed in vehicles either by drivers or passengers, thus the driver cannot pass the container to the passenger to avoid prosecution.

And one bonus self-imposed by many establishment proprietors is, turn over your keys and we will get you home at no charge. Pick up your keys tomorrow.

All of this, would be great to see in any local/country, but not very likely to happen. It all requires sensibility and forethought, lack of greed and true compassion for the citizenry by both the constabulary and the politicians.

Also, tailoring these types of rules and regulations to fit your own community/country would further help to make this all work.

And finally, let us not forget one simple thing. Why must the enjoyment of the whole be curtailed by the childish and irresponsible behavior of the few? Stupid question I know, but I felt I had to ask. It all begins with education and compassion, two very basic Buddhist precepts. Freedom and responsibility go hand in hand, too, a democratic concept that is not broadly recognized.

Knowing what I know after 12 years of being here, I welcome this ATTEMPT by the government to rein in the Songkran activities. Constraint and self-control are not local long suits, most especially during Songkran. If folks could only involve themselves with others who want to participate in that manner and not interfere with those who prefer a more traditional holiday that would be cool, but they do not.

I have enjoyed some totally out of hand times during the day in Nana plaza 7 or 8 years ago and in Chiang Mai too. In Chiang Mai however I remember that it all ceases at 6PM, everyone would go home and shower and change and then come out for a nice time in the evening without fear of being doused again until morning.

Now Pattaya is another story. I lived and worked for a pair of hotels there for several years. I would not go off property unless I had too. I would carry my work clothes in a plastic bag when traveling between the two hotels that I was employed by and change upon arrival. One time however I was in a big rush and was unable to change. Needless to say I was doused with water and powder and that suit still hangs in my closet, never to be worn again. I keep it to remind to stay in.

Another year in Pattaya, after the "festivities" were all over I left the hotel to go to a beer bar near by and have my first relaxing drink in over a week, having sequestered myself for that period of time. It was not Songkran anymore according to the calendar, and that is the extended calendar they use in Pattaya, which as we all know differs from everywhere else. (Sort of like moving Christmas to February just to have a shopping binge again and reap more revenue.) As I was enjoying my drink a pick-up truck drove up to the front of the bar and I was thoroughly covered with water from a large tank in the back of it. A few days later I developed a rash that was so bad I had to go to the doctor. The first thing he asked was did I get wet during Songkran. Then he explained that it was most likely klong water and that I have a condition that was going to be very hard to get rid of. I spent the next 8 months itching and peeling the skin off of my hands and feet. Being a chef and working in a hotel you can imagine what that did for my ability to work and to show my hands to the guests. Further it cost me quiet a bit of money to go to the doctor once a week for 8 months too.

Once while working at the hotels a European couple approached be one evening in the hotel. They had just come back form trying to enjoy an evening out. They did not understand what was happening. They had just gone through three days of Songkran in Chang Mai and thought it was over. They were enraged that they could not go out and enjoy their holiday and pissed that the brochures and reservations people had not told them they would be subject to such lunacy. I doubt they ever returned to Thailand.

Also in Pattaya I have had the displeasure of riding a motorcycle with my girlfriend's young son on the bike with me and being hit with 5 gallon buckets of water from passing trucks on Sukhumvit Road. I was always lucky that we were not injured. When you talk to locals about this most just laugh and say "Farang think too much", but 500 dead a year is proof that I was not being a tight *ss about this and just wanting to stay alive.

And my final rant on this subject: Locals use this time to seek revenge and get back at farangs for any percieved injustices that have been dealt them in the past. It is spiteful and retaliatory behavior for abuses that they feel they have had to suffer despite the fact that the major part of the economy in places like Pattaya are Farang generated.

Again, I will state, sure do it but only with those want to and not where it will hurt or bother others. But that is not an option really now is it?

I will stay home for the entire time as I do every year now, or leave the country.

Once again it is all about enforcement and management, or the lack there of, isn't it?

If the officers responsible for alloting the spaces and keeping track of the vendors were as concerned in the past with enforcing the regulations, making sure that people were in sensible areas and had dealt with the vendors individually in the past, rather than to just take their money, things may not have gotten to this point.

Thais have always been willing to pay tea money and put up with abuses toward them if they are allowed to conduct the trade that they have invested in, its all part of the program and figured in from day one. If when taking the payments the officers had made certain that everyone was in an appropriate place and was maintaining their area daily I do not believe it would have gotten so out of hand. But I am sure that they have allowed vendors into areas of question for the simple fact that they will have more of them to shake down and more revenue as a result.

I fully understand not wanting vendors near certain areas and I myself get quite frustrated when walking the streets at times, but I feel if handled correctly it can be done.

I have spent my life working in 5 star kitchens and I can tell you that the sanitation measures employed by many vendors are equal too or exceed those of the establishment. They operate in plain view and must maitain a certain level of professionalism. Those who don't simply do not get the trade like those who do and are forced out of business.

If this crackdown continues I will surely miss them. I moved to Phrakanong district a few years back and one of the considerations of my moving here was the abundance of vendors in the neighborhood. After spending my days in high-end hotel and restautrant facilities I truly enjoy a nice light Khow Man-gai or a pan-fresh Phad Thai and a crispy Hoy Tort. A sticky Lad Na and the ever fattening Khow Kaa Moo, too. Don't you?

There have been volumes of travel books dedicated to the street vendors of Thailand and they are one reason people come here for holiday. Surely there is a happy medium.

And, last but not least, what about all the Thais livng on megear salaries, with no cooking facilities in thier tiny rooms? What will they eat three times a day? Mama noodles? What about the markets and farmers? What of the landlords and equipment manufacturers. As always the scope of things gets larger as you start to really examine it.

And, last but not least, what about the culture?

mtnthai

ps- Oh, and one last thing. Who will the villans and police crash into during the ubiquitous chase scenes in the movies? No chickens flying, no oranges to slip on and no fat mamas to jostle about. Shameful state of affairs that would be. Talk about a loss of culture.

Yes, I am eating chicken and I think some people are eating crow.

Here is a link that should be reliable and helpful to understand the "risk" of eating chicken.

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/81/96857.htm

Excerpt below:

How Do Humans Get Bird Flu?

Contact with bird droppings is the most likely way people catch bird flu. People don't catch the virus from eating cooked chicken or eggs.

Bird flu tends to be an intestinal disease spread through feces. Human flu tends to be a respiratory disease spread by droplets. The only way a bird flu virus can spread easily from human to human is if the bird flu changes by picking up some genes from a human flu virus.

I MAY NOT BE 100% COMPUTER GENIUS

BUT THIS WAS CONFIRMED TO ME BY

LOXINFO TECH SUPPORT.

I suspected something was wrong this morning after using my Norton 2003 Live Update and I was right.

Loxinfo tech support confirms.

Norton website was hacked and anyone downloading updates will get a virus that keeps shutting their machine down. Norton says it will be a few days before it is repaired.

Again, Lox confirmed this.

You may wish to notify all forum members to switch ofF the live update portion of their virus protection.

David

mtnthai

Kringle-

You have allowed them about 75 minutes of infettered glory.

Now is that anyway be to be?

lol

well i did and i have again read it, re-read it and read it again. the only thing i see wrong is the coma before the word "and" but the intention seems clear to me.

having lived here for over 11 years i know there is ambiguity in there but not because of the way it is written but because of the manner in which the local policy makers do their thing or not.

whatever it says or implies i think we all know that it is a fools attempt to rein in a problem that is rooted far deeper than they wish to address. it is education and enforcement, in a balanced and sincere manner that will, over time make the difference.

a government's duty to its citizens is to, at times, create laws and policies that may go against the grain at first but will eventually be for the common good. this is a very fine line to tread and requires truely just governance and enforcement. but as long as the lobbyists prevail nothing will be achieved.

tobacco is another such similar area that needs to be looked at. think of the burden on the 30 baht scheme simply from smoking related illnesses. alcohol is just one more to pile on the heap. until all the people have satisfying lives to live they will continue seek solace in alternatives. that is a fact. and, not an ambiguos one either.