mtnthai

explain how you can deduct that bit of "clarity" from what is clearly stated in the text? how do you determone that it reads the opposite. enlighten me, please.

peteypie,

I would have to agree with you. It would seem that you do have some good suggestions that are warranted throughout the year and not just on the holidays.

I come form the great state of Vermont in the USA and we have had very strict alcohol regulations and enforcement for over two decades now. The result was an immediate and dramatic drop in highway fatalities and injury to persons and property. It was met with much debate at first but has since been embraced by all, as the results were amazingly positive and conducive to the public good and business.

Some of the laws are as follows:

1.) No happy hours, but you can have a happy drink of the day. This means no power drinking and the customers still get a deal but it is one that does not contribute to accident statistics in the manner of a happy hour.

2.) Food must be served in any drinking establishment. Insurance rates for the establishment are based on a ratio of food revenues to alcohol revenues after the first year.

3.) Bartenders are trained and licensed by the state in responsible bartending. If they serve someone who then has an accident they must face a fine, or imprisonment, or both and their employers establishment can be closed for a period of time, and that results in higher liability insurance rates to the establishment when it re-opens. Plus they may no longer tend bar in Vermont.

4.) Any one buying drinks for a minor or a person already shut off by the bartender can be fined and imprisoned, or both.

5.) Any one found to be driving and drinking is in immediate loss of their privilege to drive if failing a Breathalyzer test. (This is the only offense that an officer of the law does not require a judge to pass sentence on. It may be appealed but that person is not driving in the mean time.)

6.) A bartender may continue to serve a person if they turn over their keys and sign a statement that they will not drive with an additional set of keys.

7.) No open beverage containers allowed in vehicles either by drivers or passengers, thus the driver cannot pass the container to the passenger to avoid prosecution.

And one bonus self-imposed by many establishment proprietors is, turn over your keys and we will get you home at no charge. Pick up your keys tomorrow.

All of this, coupled with your suggestions, would be great, but not very likely to happen. It all requires sensibility and forethought, lack of greed and true compassion for the citizenry by politicians.

And, let us not forget one simple thing. Why must the enjoyment of the whole be curtailed by the childish and irresponsible behavior of the few? Stupid question I know, but I felt I had to ask. It all begins with education and compassion, two very basic Buddhist precepts. Freedom and responsibility go hand in hand, too, a democratic concept.

Regards,

mtnthai

So, go ahead, beat it to death, be my guest. I am not saying do away wth the forum just this particular subject.

But, like someone has said before, and I will reiterate, there are more pressing matters at hand that need to be discussed instead of what is probably one of the oldest rants in Thailand concerning farangs, farang women who either travel here or live here, and why any of us are here.

This whole thing started when some vain, immature individual put up a post that should have been on www.AdultFriendfinder.com and not here to begin with.

Let's spend our time on figuring out how we can all stay here, so we will have these trivial matters to rant about.

Further, if you want to enter into some really important discussions, click on any of my signature links, pick a subject and I will jump in with both feet.

Later, I'm out of here.

Let's see, hmmmmmmmmmm... the word I am looking for is it "inane" or "insane"?

Both I guess. I cannot believe that with all the truly world shattering things going on these days that are directly impacting all of us, male or female, this rant has managed to survive for this long.

I think I heard all of this on my very first holiday here over 15 years ago and I am still hearing it today.

Wish there was a "I am very bored" smiley to tag onto this post. And, I have also realized that I have fallen prey to your rants and am in the process of contributing one of my own.

Bottom line, to each his or her own. Whether it is here or there, whether you be male or female, gay, bi, SRS, "go-dai".  We all like and dis-like whatever we choose for whatever reasons, valid or not so valid so why not let it lie.

These opinons expressed by all of you are apparently deep-seated and no amount of bashing and cajoling, shameing or educating will change any of this.

Mai pen rai, nah?

This subject, being a quagmire of double edged swords and opinion, has and always will be up for discussion even after the smoke has cleared and a decision, good or bad has been reached. I choose to address only one aspect of this debate as it was most recently brought to my attention by a Thai girlfriend of mine who works in the business. (Yup, she actually thinks about stuff that is of consequence, despite her third grade education.)

She was referencing the point that was put forward that education is the key. Well, in her small bar alone there are three girls employed who have university level educations. They state quite openly that the years of hard work and sacrifice that were required of them to achieve their degrees have seemingly been for naught. Fully graduated and diplomas in hand they have tried to find jobs in their chosen professions. They have all come to go-go bars to work because entry level jobs in their areas of expertise do not pay enough to help them to live on a daily basis, support their loved ones nor to help them repay the loans that afforded them their schooling in the first place. They have also come to conclude that despite all the detractors their current employers can be a bit more understanding and giving then in the mainstream of business. Needless to say they do feel cheated and abandoned by society, the system and government. They are angry that there are no other choices as they see it. They wish to be responsible and pay back their loans, maintain and build their credit for the future and surprisingly enough, pay their taxes. (Unlike some business people, Thai and Farang alike that do all that they can to default on loans – IMF was a result of this – and avoid paying their fare share of taxes and employee benefits.)

Further, in the time that I have lived in Thailand I have met an innumerable amount of girls who are financing their education by working in the bars and other venues for prostitution. Their families up-country are dirt poor and can not afford them the education that they so desire and that they perceive will get them out of their poverty and squalor.

There is no clear solution and what ever is decided will be both good and bad. The way I see it at this juncture though is this. It is time to take the burdens off of the employees of establishments and shift them to the proprietors who are exploiting them on every level. Granted the prices will increase but so they do with any other “product” that is improved and “manufactured” to standards of quality and safety. Such is progress.

To those of you who would tell me to keep this aspect to myself reflect upon your job and position and what you wish for and demand of your employers and give a bit more for a service that you wish to avail yourself of. Do not be willing to only pay for an old beat-up pickup truck and expect to be driving a new shinny Ferrari. You might actually have a better experience, get more value for your hard earned wages and help improve the lot of so many.

Having lived here for over eleven years now I must say that my favorite Thai holiday could very well be Loy Krathong. I am a Food and Beverage Manager in the Hotel Industry here and it has always been my responsibility to organize these events where I work. I have also found it to be the most favorite among the guests that I have had the pleasure to cater to in my capacity as a hotel manager in Thailand.

When you compare the responses of guests to this national day, as opposed to Songkran, Loy Krathong wins every time hands down and most especially if the guests are middle-aged or older. Songkran has become such a bastardized tradition in most places and it is wearisome to most farang tourists, to say the least. The true spirit of Nong Nappamas and Loy Krathong has been retained and the extremely loud boisterous, sometimes fatal, air of Songkran is not present. This is not to say that there will not be the occasional bottle rocket whizzing past your face or a firecracker or two thrown hap-hazardly about. It is truly a time for families and lovers to enjoy a pleasant, peaceful and memorable time together.

I offer a few suggestions to those that may not be familiar with the holiday and these are points that I have always tried to stress to guests that are new to Thailand.

First and foremost, try to make your own Krathongs as they did in the old days rather than to buy one. It is fun, educational for the kids and helps to restore the old traditions. Some hotels offer this as an activity during the day leading up to the night’s festivities. Like our Christmas, Thai holidays are becoming too commercialized and the old ways are being forgotten or cut short, help preserve the past by living it. Further, whether you make your own Krathongs or buy them USE ALL NATURAL MATERIALS. I do not think Nong Nappamas had Styrofoam, plastic, mylar, ballons or foil available to her. In the past few years there has been a return to this “organic” tradition in allot of places and cross-sections of palms are used for the bases. The sheer amount of Krathongs that are set adrift nationwide on this evening is staggering. If you love Thailand try to keep it as unpolluted as you can. If you have ever seen the beaches of Jomtien or Pattaya Bay, the morning after Loy Krathong, I think you will understand this point quit well.

Try to find a klong, beach or riverside that is remote and peaceful. I have seen the traffic backed up from south Jomtien Beach all the way to Naklua. It is noisy, dangerous and not in the true spirit of Loy Krathong. I mean if you do like crowds and congested roadways, by all means go to these types of places. Up to you as they say in the local vernacular.

A river or a klong (if clean) may provide a slightly better experience as the tide at a beach can be working against you at times. The tide will either keep forcing the Krathong back to the beach or swamp it all together. One of the prime superstitions associated with the festival is how long the Krathong actually floats can determine certain aspects of your fate. Supposedly, the longer it is afloat, the joss sticks and candle remain lit and the further it travels the more likely it is that your wishes will come true and the longer your love will last. This is a holiday for lovers to affirm their love and make merit towards that end. That is what Nong Nappamas was doing. She was affirming he love for her master.

If you are at the waterside with your kids, keep an eye on them, it will be dark, there will be fireworks and you and your wife or lover may become distracted as it were. Also, in places like Phuket, the undertow can be deadly very close to shore.

Like all national holidays there will be some extremely inebriated partiers. They will be driving recklessly. No more to be said on that subject, I think you get my point.

Well, that’s about all I have to say about Loy Krathong. I hope it may be of some use to all the newcomers. The most important thing, as in all festivals is, have a great time with the people you care about, reflect on the past and its traditions, do not harm the environment, be conscious of others and their fun and be safe.

Happy Loy Krathong

David