Pierrot

If the reds were paid to protest, they would all run away from Government House.

Anyone still believe that they are paid a few hundred Baht a day to protest?

It should be noted that the police processed many red shirt supporters after the Din Daeng reclaimation. Many of them claimed they were coerced into remaining at the protest site, by more ardent supporters.

You post the same statement, almost words for words, in other threads. To my ears it sounds like propaganda, especially for someone who has joined today and post at the speed of a machine gun.

The PAD propaganda machine is still very well alive !

The Nation article said that during the Din Daeng Intersection clearing, they processed several red shirts. Many actually wanted to go home, but were being "compelled to stay" by the more ardent supporters. Not sure as to the veracity of that statement, but it sounds right to my ears.

You post the same statement, almost words for words, in other threads. To my ears it sounds like propaganda, especially for someone who, at the time, had less than 15 posts.

The PAD propaganda machine is still very well alive !

And the current PM didn't have the PAD fighting the same battle to deliver him?

No, he didn't.

Just because two groups (PAD and Democrats) have opinions in common, doesn't mean those two groups are one and the same.

Abhisit was not the figurehead of the PAD. Abhisit wasn't financing the PAD. Abhisit wasn't making videos urging people to fight on the streets.

The PAD acted on their own.

Suggesting that Abhisit had a role in the PAD similar to Thaksin's role in the red shirts is nonsense.

For once I agree with you, comparing Thaksin with Abhi is like comparing a great director like Kubrick or Spielberg to a good looking but mediocre actor like Tom Cruise.

The PAD / democrat collaboration is the collaboration of the cowards. One is happy to fight but doesn't want responsability, the other one craves responsability but doesn't want to fight. No wonder people who supported them until now are giving up.

Yes - maybe won't is more appropriate. Perhaps a look at footage being aired in BKK now and watching 19 (my count) military and police, security stand by whilst a member of the Cabinet in Abhisits employ is pulled from his Mercedes wagon, beaten and is now hospitalised? Watching the Police who did nothing at Pattaya - that to me is refusal to act. It is a known fact Thaksin was and still is largely supported by Mafia in Brown Uniforms - the Police. They did not act then, they did not act today. They will be most unlikely to act tomorrow. I call that refusal but maybe I should have said 'won't' act! Interesting - even when a very expensive current model Mercedes is being trashed by the Mob wearing face masks as all cowards do, the 'Police' just stood by and watched. Whoa - safe country this one!

The police was deeply humiliated during PAD protest. Then Abhi hired PAD crooks to his government. If you want someone help, it could help not to humiliate him first.

For the army, they realized they were used and abused during the coup and later during PAD protest.

I believe the army and police will act in order to maintain minimum order and to protect the general population but I'm afraid Abhi is on his own now.

I don't know who he was, I turned on the TV in the middle of the interview, but one Asean leader said "We have nothing to worry about; they're just here to humiliate the Thai government".

During the same programm, they said Abhi was the first Asean leader to flee Pattaya in his helicopter...

^^ please keep the Royal Family out of the discussion.

thank you.

tony soprano you dont know much about this by the sounds of it ...it has all to do with the royal family...that is who thaksin is rebelling against..he wants to be more powerful than the king the thai people love the king and thaksin wont change that....its the poor people from the north east who dont know any different who are voteing for him because they are getting paid to do so......

Barry, I believe there are two main points to check before posting :

- It has to be within forum rules

- you need to know what you're talking about

You fail both.

What's weird is you haven't been reported by SJ yet Wait ... you're on the same side

does anyone understand this from the french embassy website? dated March 2009

The foreign spouse of a EU national (except French national) may enter France without visa if they are holding

a valid travel document;

a valid UK residence permit with the endorsement "family member of EEA national";

and if they are meeting up or travelling with the EU national.

However if you do not satisfy the above conditions, you will need to apply for a visa to travel to France (for instance if your residency is not explicit or if you are travelling to France for business). Note that children and parents of EU Nationals still require visas to travel to France.

does this mean my wife needs a Schengen visa or not ? she has a 2 year spouses visa [residents permit]and it says spouse of "my name"on it and the uk is in the EEA.

Has anyone actually travelled to France without a visa.Please only answer if you are sure because this is a new developement dated march 2009..

To avoid any trouble, why don't you ask the French embassy directly? Our marriage is registered at the French Consulate and last time my wife asked a visa it took her one day to get it, no question asked.

As I keep saying, it is not about the personalities here, it is about saving the country from disaster. The ONLY way is an election and then a democratic government whoever wins or whoevers in the coalition.

I don't think you know how a parliamentary democracy works. The present government is an coalition government and they have an majority in the parliament. So the present government is legal, and therefore new elections are nor necessary. In an parliamentary democracy its not uncommon that when a government lost the vote of trust in the parliament( the last Thai government did) a new government is formed by parties who can achieve an new majority. In some democratic countries they have even legislature governments, meaning that they can only have elections after the legislature period of the parliament is finished, so when a government loose a vote of confidence the constitution make it mandatory that a new parliamentary majority is formed who make a new government.

I presume that you are an American or British citizen who are familiar with a 2 party system and therefore not familiar with coalition governments.

Yes, I am British but I do understand the system as we also have had coalitions in the UK too. It is pretty simple. If there is no faith in a government (motion of no confidence in the UK, censure here etc), the government calls an election, it does not allow the other parties to get together to make a new government. Never... If a leader of a party steps down or is forced down as with Samak, then a new leader of the party takes his place.... So either way, an election is needed as you cannot tell me that the yellow shirts forcing Somchai out and we then get a new PM in the form of Abhisit who no-one ahs ever voted for is right... that would be like Abhisit stepping down now and Thaksin is declared the new PM with out an election!...

Don't worry. Everytime someone says their system is rigged, their first reply is "you, stupid foreigner, you don't understand how our system works ..."

I don't think the international media is for either party all they cover is the goings on, before it was airport closure and demonstrations now its demontsrations and road blockades, they don't talk about the why or the players involved, no one really gives s**t outside of Thailand, its a second rate country run like a nut house, thats what the average Westerner sees.

Only the english press (BBC, The Economist) seems to be really interested to understand what's really going on in Thailand

Before looking for intelligent life forms in the universe, I wish they could find some in my office first ...

I do care about those 3.000 + people who died in his war on drugs, so on one side you have former PM who is mass murderer

well said

From The Nation is 2004, but the link is no longer valid

"People from 11 year-old kids to 60 year-old grandmas deal within the yabaa cycle. Some are addicted to it, some sell it and many take and sell it," said teacher Rampai Kakaew, who still recalls the drug crisis of 1997. "Yabaa trading was done openly at that time. Dealers would show (drug) money proudly in the fresh market. At weddings and community fairs, the drug was given to participants to make them keep on dancing all night long."

"Mothers give it to their kids so the boy can help sell it, like it was a family business," said Panjaphol Jampanil, 49, a teacher and resident of Ban Ahee. She/he added that 30 per cent of kids at his/her school have urine tested positively for yabaa. Police are faced with the difficulty of working around the close relationship between Thais in Ban Ahee and Lao in Chaiyaburi's Ban Nakaengma, on the opposite site of the river border. Suspects can easily slip into another country while being chased, and people in those communities will normally help hide someone on the run, according to local police.

According to teachers, in the past easy drug money created a deep impact in society as some fell into the trap of materialism. People competed with each other to build big houses, buy new cars and ignore the self sufficient living exhibited by the surrounding agricultural villages. This was a powerful factor that pushed kids into the drug trade, or other 'fast's way of making money.

Now I strongly suggest you go to these villages and tell those kids how sorry you are their drug dealer has been killed. Political propaganda has its limits !

One step out of line by the red-shirts ( Thaksin) and the army will shoot on the red shirts or whatever for they have absolutely nothing to lose now - THEY'RE IN TOTAL CONTROL -

And notice how the police said that they will deal with the protesters? Why did they not deal with the PAD when they caused billions of damages to Thailand? The military didn't step in when the PAD went to the streets, but they're quite willing now.

The way I see it, it's the following:

On one side:

- Thaksin.

- 55-60%+ of Thais (farmers, taxi drivers, aka the poor)

On the other side:

- Abhisit (aka puppet)

- Army

- Police

- 40-45% of Thais (probably 70%+ chinese, aka high class/elite)

Obviously you're an unfortunate victim of the PAD propaganda. Abhi is far from having total control of the army and the police, especially the police which was deeply humiliated during PAD protest and again lately.

Regarding the so called "elite", far from a a clear cut, it is also divided between the "traditionals" mostly in the administration and locally oriented business, pro-Abhi, and the international businessmen who are on Thaksin side (he is one of them, don't foget ). And then there are also some division that are, let's say, beyond discussion in this forum.

At the end, if Thaksin support were only the "uneducated poors" or the "rural idiots" as some nicely put it, the problem would have been solved long ago. Actually I believe that the democrats were themselves intoxicated by their own propaganda and they failed to realized that by focusing only on Thaksin, 1/ they didn't solve any of the problems that fuel the opposition to their party and 2/ they maintain Thaksin as an hero of this opposition. Very nice job ! If Thakin comes back to power, he will definitively greatly owe it to Sondhi and Abhi

But again what I dont understand is people here on the forum as well as many Thais only talking about Thaksin corruption, I dont care how much money he stole from Thais, but I do care about those 3.000 + people who died in his war on drugs, so on one side you have former PM who is mass murderer on the other side young hansom guy who dont know what f#€k is going on in this country. My vote goes for less harm (Abhisit).

Nice feelings but naive, only because you think Abhi is in control and you refuse to see the reality of who is really in charge.

Some protesters join the Red, but DO NOT support Thaksin. Some just don't like the way the army stage a coup to kick elected governmant out, rewrite election rules, and place their people in high places, distribute tax money to themselves (double defense budget allocation), etc. Giles is a good example.

You're absolutely right. There is a will to change a century old system, very deep will, Thaksin is just the way. I'm sure that for every red that supports Thaksin there is a least one or two who is here because they oppose the PAD, the democrats and what they represent.

There is something much bigger going on but as the saying goes, don't be fooled by the tree hiding the forest.

I enjoy the fact that NOW the yellow-shirts are asking everyone to respect the rule of law.

The academic community is beginning to call for the government to be dissolved and for general elections to be held. I'm with them in believing this is the safest, most peaceful and most democratic way out of this situation.

Taken from the Nation URL: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/04/09...cs_30100030.php

Gov't should dissolve House to ease tension: academic

By The Nation

The government should push ahead with the political reform within for 50 days before dissolving the House to pave way for the elections, King Prachadhipok's Institute political scientist Pornchai Theppanya said on Thursday.

Pornchai urged the government to step down in order to overcome the political impasse triggered by the red-shirt crowd.

He said he would not comment on the demand for privy councillors to quit, arguing he could offer his idea on what was deemed within reason for the government to review and comply.

He reminded the Democrats that they once called for two governments under Samak Sundaravej and Somchai Wongsawat to quit under similar circumstances.

I really wish someone could dig the post here on TV warning PAD supporters there were setting a very dangerous precedent.

On the bright side, it's obvious the red crowd definitively outnumbers the yellows even at their peak. When it comes to counting people, in the ballot or in the street, the result is obviously always the same ! Thaksin rules !

Yes, yesterday was the D-Day and the final victory with 1.000.000 protestors.

Today at 16.00 the ultimatum for the privy council and Abhisit to remove themself.

So this evening will be the final last D-Day and the last final ultimate ultimatum.

And tomorrow everyone will go home to come again in May with 10.000.000 protestors and the last final last D-Day and the final last final ultimate ultimatum for the Privy council and Abhisit.....

Any forecast for June? Maybe a mass demonstration would be something new.....

The problem with the Reds is they are just so bl**dy lazy, they just stole the blueprint of the Yellows action plan, just changed the venue and a few names. On the other hand it was approved by the current government and it did work ...

But as people say imitation is the best form of flattery, you guys should really be proud of the last days' events ...

Agree with Robert44, if you do nothing wrong, you won't have to pay anything. And then, if you broke some traffic rules and you have issues with paying directly the police officer who stopped you, you've always the option to pay the regular fine.

The real tittle of this tread should be "75% of motorists are fine with traffic rules, have no problems whatsoever with traffic police and are just happy drivers" But that wouldn't make a successful thread...

Absolute BS. your saying you don't have to pay the police if you don't break any traffic laws, what planet are you from, ive had to pay the police many times without making any traffic violations, i dont know who made this survey ?? was it the police

its more like 99.9% of motorists have had to pay the traffic police at some time or another

Obviously everybody get stopped by the police, have a little chat, then some have to pay and other don't.

It's clear I know I won't have to pay because I didn't do anything wrong but you know you will have to pay anyway and you have already your wallet in hand. So why wasting time with me when you're just behind ? Having a little bit more faith in our BIB can rewarding .

? ............ As head of the privy council, he represents the King. Perhaps the red-shirts (and Thaksin) need to be reminded of this?

Agreed, Thaksins exposure of Prem as being implicated in the 2006 coup was a veiled comment regarding his (Prem's) boss, Thaksin hasn't the ba!!s to come out and state what's really playing on his little egotistical mind.

Maybe the attacks directed at Prem are actually directed at ... Prem!

You have absolutely no idea what's going on and honestly all I have myself is conjectures but to believe it's the fight of a disturbed, greedy, lonely man against the establishment is ... naive! How would Thaksin been able to move such a crowd, to force the government to beg for negotiation without support at the highest level?

Seems to be available here :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00jqqv3

But I have the following message "The content doesn't seem to be working. Try again later"

If someone knows how to fix this problem, it would be greatly apreciated

We are seeing lots of changes in Thai society. The more the Thais distance themselves from their Thai heritage and become like Westerners the less foreigners are keen to come to Thailand. Any thoughts?

How many foreigners are coming for the Thai "culture" ?

Actually the weird thing is most of the Democrat supporters I talked to about this offer think it's the most stupid idea EVER! The last thing they want is Thaksin back in the country, especially now.

Now one funny thing will be Thaksin coming back and the reds asking for the reward ....

I wish that the workers who are currently building our water tank and fixing a number of other stuff around the house come to work every day...

And of course world peace !

It doesn't have to be realistic, does it ?

I don't know anything about fishing but I'm always open to new outdoor activities. So a new forum where people can post personal experiences, tips and advises can motivate a few people here to take up fishing if they are not already hooked .

I've already been invited to join a couple fishing parties at sea for the week end, never had time to go, maybe that's the kind of motivation I need ....

Thaksin was kicked out of UK,if he returns to Thailand as PM, will he kick all UK residents out?? who knows, do you?

As far as I remember Thaksin was not "kicked out" of the UK, he was asked not to come back when he had already moved abroad. Usually the condition of stay of a former political leader in Europe is quite clear : you can stay as long as you don't embarrass our relation with your country of origin. Thaksin chose to continue his political fight, it was obvious for everybody he couldn't stay in the UK, it wasn’t UK's choice, at the end it was Thaksin decision.

Beside the English press has always shown a clear support for Thaksin, Thaksin is smart politician who clearly understand the obligation of international politic so there is no point in trying to scare foreigners with Thaksin return.

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban has ordered police to arrest the owners of the motorcycle and others involved in the incident.

He said the protesting red shirts had broken the law. "Every one ....must be prosecuted. Police must uphold the law,'' he said.

He downplayed concern that - in light of what happened to Abhisit - police would be incapable of guarding national leaders here for the ASEAN Summit. He said the security plan as used before would be executed to protect them.

Do you remember one of your previous thread :

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Prime-Minist...Cr-t250063.html

The National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) has resolved to file charges against former prime minister Somchai Wongsawat, ex-deputy prime minister Chavalit Yongchaiyudh, Royal Thai Police Commissioner-General Patcharawat Wongsuwan and four other senior police officers over the violent dispersal of People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protesters on Oct 7 last year.

I believe some in the police force are in no hurry to go after the protesters this time.

Agree with Robert44, if you do nothing wrong, you won't have to pay anything. And then, if you broke some traffic rules and you have issues with paying directly the police officer who stopped you, you've always the option to pay the regular fine.

The real tittle of this tread should be "75% of motorists are fine with traffic rules, have no problems whatsoever with traffic police and are just happy drivers" But that wouldn't make a successful thread...

Just remember, they police don't really care about trafic law you break, they find any excuse to stop you and then get money from you

Sorry, but it seems most people agree with me here, if you do nothing wrong you don't have to worry about being stopped by the police. An other urban myth going down the drain ...

BS, obviously you don't drive a lot or do your driving in a village in nakhon nowhere.

I get pulled regularly here in BKK both driving a car and bike. Always without any valid cause, with car the most usual "offence" they claim is using wrong lane to turn, or cutting over several lines before turning left or right. With bike they always claim you were not into left lane.

Used to be 100 baht on the spot for years and when they started to give 50% of the official 400 baht ticket back to bib's they started to demand 200 baht on the spot. Lately been asked 500 baht as well. Sure you can get the ticket as well and go to police station to pay if you insist on it and are prepared to wait 30mins while they write it.

I drive for more than 10 years. At the beginning I used to be fined quite often, always for the same reasons, caught in the wrong lane, I shouldn't turn right, shouldn't turn left, I was afraid to get lost, chose to turn right or left anyway and the cops were waiting for me ... Now I know my way around Bangkok, get on the right lane on time and I've no more problems.

I also drive a lot in Isan, usually drive once month to Pak Chong, Korat and it seems I've the same experience as everybody else. The police stops you, checks the papers of the car and of the driver, asks a couple of question ... If you have the right papers and the polite, right answers, everything's fine. And now if they catch me at 140km/h on the wrong lane, I've only myself to blame.