Pierrot

Yes, Sonthi was Thaksin's friend, and so were half of his die hard opponents.No matter what triggered the change, they are enemies now.

Sorry, but when a personnal feud pushes a nation to the brink of civil war ... it matters !

Because it's what it is, a personnal feud ! People of all sides tried to use it to their personnal advantage, but at the end it's only a personnal feud, and for the good of Thailand, it has to stop !

I understand it's just a job for you (I was a student too ) but if you have nothing to say, could you please stop polluting this forum ?

Why the hostility? You seem be be determined to "win". You can't win - its an opinion forum. Why not just be satisfied to have a nice, non-name calling discussion?

Fine ... I'm waiting for your arguments ...

... I can already see your supervisors sweating ...

Sorry, but I'm afraid you won't last long in this job

It all started with Thaksin refusal to grant Sondhi a new TV license

Nice little theory. Repeat it great many times, belive in it, and it becomes your version of reality.

But sorry about it, no theory, fact ! Sondhi was Thaksin "best" friend until he was refused his license.

And it's also fact that Sondhi thought (think ?) he can control Thailand through his media empire. He thought he can use people of influence. People of influence thought they can use him. He is now seen as a "free agant", unfortunately to free to be let be free ....

I understand it's just a job for you (I was a student too ) but if you have nothing to say, could you please stop polluting this forum ?

It all started with Thaksin refusal to grant Sondhi a new TV license

Nice little theory. Repeat it great many times, belive in it, and it becomes your version of reality.

But sorry about it, no theory, fact ! Sondhi was Thaksin "best" friend until he was refused his license.

And it's also fact that Sondhi thought (think ?) he can control Thailand through his media empire. He thought he can use people of influence. People of influence thought they can use him. He is now seen as a "free agent", unfortunately to free to be let be free ....

It all started with Thaksin refusal to grant Sondhi a new TV license

Nice little theory. Repeat it great many times, belive in it, and it becomes your version of reality.

On the other hand, no one who observed Sondhi's campaigning during these past four years can doubt that man's sincerety and dedication to his goal, and no one would even think he has been doing it for some TV license either, no matter how it started.

Are you sur you're not working for Sondhi ? Because that's the way he works, show it on TV, on the internet, in the newspapers so many times that people will believe it's true *... That's the way he got Thaksin

But at the end he got too greedy ... That's the problem with these power addict people, they never realize when they go too far

* I even heard he has people infiltrated in internet forum

The 2007 Constitution was approved by the whole country, via a national referendum (can we even say that about the 1997 version?). No way you could tear it up legally. Only choice is to amend the parts that people don't like. Personally, I think both version make it far to easy to amend the constitution. I think that any change should also be approved by a national referendum, after passing through the parliament. But they forgot to ask me when they were writing it...lol

This has been answered before but I guess you don't care.

Nothing personal, I understand it's just a job for you.

I don't know where Abhisit is going with this amnesty idea.

Simple, they just start to realize that everything was perfectly fine in 2006 before they start messing up with the government and the constitution ... No surprise they're also talking about amending the current constitution ...

It didn't look anywhere near fine in 2006.

No parliament, no senate, annuled elections, Election Commissioners jailed, interim government that overstayed it's allowed mandate by about three months, Thaksin backpedalling on his public promise to stand down, and people taking to the streets again.

How good does it look now ?

Thaksin was in charge and it was fine, then economy went south ....

You're right, people dong give a fuc_k about the constitution, the government ... they just think Thaksin is businessman, Thaksin understand business, when Thaksin was in charge things were fine ...

Government propaganda want us to believe that Thaksin is history. The only thing that separates Abhi from a real democratic mandate is a success in a national election. Don't you think he craves it ? Why won't he do it ?

I don't know where Abhisit is going with this amnesty idea.

Simple, they just start to realize that everything was perfectly fine in 2006 before they start messing up with the government and the constitution ... No surprise they're also talking about amending the current constitution ...

13 pages and not one person wished him well or said they felt bad. i guess he was not very well respected or liked for that matter. i have not heard a single Thai person in the street express sorrow.

Probably because Sondhi is the most hated person in Thailand. If you thought that Elliot Carver (Tomorrow Never Dies) was the perfect villain but too evil to be real, think again.

It all started with Thaksin refusal to grant Sondhi a new TV license, probably because he sensed at that time that Sondhi was already too powerful for Thailand’s good. Unfortunately, the future will prove him right !

Posters like dbrenn educate us all with honest, straightforward posts that teach us what is going on behind the scenes in Thai politics.

Bless you dbrenn.

Wipe your nose UG ,that brown stuff is disgusting.

Smart post. Maybe you should consider sticking with the farming forum, your advises are very much appreciated ... there !

I didn't assume that all Thais were born equal. I was saying that if you go back 5-10 generations between someone with the last name of Sophonpanich and one name Krakatoke, you'd find that their ancestors were living relatively humble daily wage type lives. There was a time when the playing field was more level (but I don't believe that any playing field is completely level), and that those who figured how how to run it first are the ones who got to run with it the whole way. They didn't suddenly become the elite overnight... it took generations. The same way that it would and should take generations for someone born into grinding poverty to transcend their class. What makes them deserving of a short cut?

Very good post ! Difficult to make things more clear.

Everybody should read this post again and again and understand what it means.

I hope I'll have time to make a more complete answer later.

It seems that Abhi represents the "establishment" and is therefore trusted to protect the interests of the "establishment". So is Abhi able to lead you out of this cirsis ? it depends where you stand in the Thai society.

Then Thaksin is a businessman, Thaksin understand business. When Thaksin was in charge, the economy was so much better... That's what you hear in some business circles.

Political crisis ? Abhi may be the solution, actually anything is better than anarchy. Economical crisis ? Thaksin understands business ....

Weeeeeeeeee, another thread about us and them.

When you use the term "us", please don't assume that we are all the same. If your "us" includes people of marginal income, lacking needed job skills or not possessing an ability to truly contribute to the well being and economic growth of Thailand, then yes, your assessment is correct. Horrible isn't it that

So let's look at your complaints shall we?

draconian visa regulations

Thailand has the same position as other countries like Australia, Canada, the USA and the EU. When was the last time you saw Australia set up a recruiting booth in Africa, India or even Europe and ask uneducated people that would contribute nothing of great value to the society or economy to move to Australia? You do realize that the UK, USA etc. all impose financial requirements in order to obtain investment or retirement visas right? Do you know how difficult it is for a Thai to get a tourist visa to a western country?

things like double pricing,

We already have a thread going on that but I know from my own experience in other countries that I often paid more for local services. Need some examples? Take boring Canada;

- University tuition for "foreign" students is in the tens of thousands while students resident in the province pay only a few thousand.

- Medical care is "free" to residents that may pay for some services such as non hospital based tests. Foreigners pay rates and costs that would preclude most Thais from obtaining medical care. For example, the charge to a non resident for a doctor visit can be $100-$250 depending upon the province. This is significantly higher than the $20-$40. a foreigner is charged in Thailand.

- Entrance to SixFlags amusement park in Montreal: Non residents pay approx. 2X the cost of residents.

150 baht charge to take your money out of an a.t.m.

What's your point? Western banks do the same thing. When use a bank that isn't my branch in the west, I pay an atm access fee + my bank's added fee. This can amount to 150B as well. I just noticed that my west issued Mastercard has been adding 200b fees to my card for purchases I made on the internet in the west.

,not being able to own land ,

Did you know that in Prince Edward Island, Canada non residents are not allowed to purchase land? The locals passed the law because they were worried about all sorts of rich foreigners coming in and buying up the province. It has withstood all sorts of court challenges because the law was intended to protect the local culture. Just like in PEI, if there would be a free for all in Thailand that would occur if foreigners were allowed to own land. Large chunks of agricultural land would be drawn out of the economy. Nevermind that, but alot of folks whining about not being able to buy land might then be whining about Indians, Chinese and Arabs forcing up land prices beyond the reach of western retirees because they were on buying sprees.

For those of "us" that are responsible citizens and have either the financial wherewithall or important job skills or that can help the economy, the welcome is there. If someone just wants to sit around drinking beer and copulating with impoverished sex workers in Pattaya and that would be considered trash in his or her own country, no the welcome isn't there.

Can't agree more with that !

It's all a question of attitude. When the bank want to charge me for something I don't agree with, I always tell them you cancel the charge or you cancel the card. When the police want to charge me for an offence I didn't commit I make clear I won't pay (btw, I ran a red light at JJ market yesterday and I paid the fine, no contest ). When some shop wants to charge me the "falang price", I usually ask them if they want my business or not. I don't blame them for trying, I blame those stupid people who pay then whine.

There are a lot of "good" falangs in Thailand, regular job, nice (Thai) wife and kids, and honestly we're getting sick and tired of those losers who gave us bad name !

After his abysmal failure to secure the Asean conference, does anyone else share the view that Abhisit has grown in stature as the red-shirt activities have been played out ?

There seems no doubt that his international reputation has been further enhanced, and he has shown an even-handed, controlled approach to the rioting.

Most importantly, will the Thais now view him more favourably and, as a result, could the Democrats achieve an election victory.

Could now be the time to boldly play an Abhisit versus Taksin strategy ?

How can you write in the same sentence "abysmal failure" and "grown in stature", unless of course you're talking of the stature of a loser, and then I'll agree Abhi's stature has attain gigantic dimensions.

"his international reputation has been further enhanced" Are you joking ? Asean meeting is seen as a complete failure, the BBC says "political turmoil has disrupted life in Thailand for so long now that it is easy to forget the country was once seen as a paragon of stability."

But the best is : "will the Thais now view him more favourably and, as a result, could the Democrats achieve an election victory." Priceless ! The admission that until now the Democrats would never have been able to achieve an election victory !!! I love you Chaimai !

The bad news is the answer is probably no !

A poll of a bunch of farangs on the Internet. What possible meaning does it have?

Are you talking for yourself?

Many Thais and Farangs think Abhisit is the best we can have at the moment.the majority,i guess. Cheers

PS

I want to praise the Army(if really no casualties...) for the good job.

And thank you for registering with TV for sharing your views.

Does anybody has picture of the democrat recruiting booth in KSR ? How much is it paid ? In these difficult times, nobody can be blame for taking any job available, not everybody has the right look to be a gogo dancer.

Two times in the recent month, Abhi lost complete credibility:

- By failing to prosecute the PAD leaders, even inviting them to his government, Abhi legitimized mob violence and is directly responsible for what's going on today.

- By failing to recognize the threat of the red shirts and insisting, for his own prestige, in hosting the ASEAN summit, he is directly responsible for the huge lost of face Thailand suffered when this summit was cancelled. As an Asean dignitary said "We have nothing to fear, they are only here to humiliate the Thai government" and, with the help of Abhi, they succeeded !

Finally, by ordering the army to shoot unarmed civilians, Thailand may eventually get the reputation it has avoided until now, of a bloody dictatorial regime.

Where Samak and Somchai failed with dignity, Abhi may also failed but this time taking Thailand with him in his fall.

Any bodies to show us? Can't seem to find any. Conspiracy Theorists of the world unite!

64 posts since you joined yesterday, all attacking the reds. Obviously you're a "profesional" troll. Who's your boss, PAD ? democrats ? Sondhi ?

It's obvious Abhi's spin machine is running full steam, damage control is the order of the day.

Btw, 78 answers to the poll and only 32 posts, usually we have the opposite ratio. I know, conspiracy theory ...

A quick reply.

First, he wasn't given much choice. The escalation is the result of PAD/democrats/xxx action that keep on changing the rules when they lose. The reds’ actions are the copy of the yellows’, Thaksin didn’t choose this path, it was forced upon him.

Second, when the PAD was a highly organized movement, very centralized, the reds are a loose alliance of people unhappy with the government. I have sometime doubt that they can be controlled. Abhi opened the Pandora box when he refused to prosecute the PAD leaders, if someone is responsible for the current violence, it’s him.

Two times in the recent month, Abhi lost complete credibility:

- By failing to prosecute the PAD leaders, even inviting them to his government, Abhi legitimized mob violence and is directly responsible for what’s going on today.

- By failing to recognize the threat of the red shirts and insisting, for his own prestige, in hosting the ASEAN summit, he is directly responsible for the huge lost of face Thailand suffered when this summit was cancelled. As an Asean dignitary said "We have nothing to fear, they are only here to humiliate the Thai government" and, with the help of Abhi, they succeeded !

Finally, by ordering the army to shoot unarmed civilians, Thailand may eventually get the reputation it has avoided until now, of a bloody dictatorial regime.

Where Samak and Somchai failed with dignity, Abhi may also failed but this time taking Thailand with him in his fall.

There seems to be different stories coming from each side of the equation.Are Thai citizens being denied the full story being that their Newspapers self censor and the Thai TV Channels are all state controlled or run by the millitary?Can you trust the news you are getting if you have not got access to international TV.

When you think about it, there are always new opportunities for business. After the english teachers, we should hire Russian and Chinese, they could teach Thais a lot on how to read the "official" press . Then, why go so far, just ask Burmese ...

The obvious answer is start speaking up. But every time they did, they were asked to shut up.

An other question ?

PS : What the point to play "democracy" when "head" you win, "tail" I lose ?

I'm greatly worried. I've read a number of posts in this forum where people clearly advocated the use of deadly force against protesters.

First I don't remember PAD opponents EVER making such request during PAD protest.

More disturbing is the fact that those posts are allowed to be published.

There's a not-so-fine line between protesting and hooliganism/rioting. There's nothing wrong with banding together with people and voicing your beliefs/concerns about something. There's something very wrong with lobbing molotov cocktails, hijacking LPG trucks and flat out attacking unarmed people with a mob mentality. This kind of behavior can only be countered with superior force, or better said, suppression. Nobody (sane) here wants to see casualties or injuries, but at this point it's unavoidable.

The soldiers and police are out there protecting US, let's remember that.

Could you please let me know when history vindicated the use of live ammunition on a crowd ?

On a personnal note, the fact that you use the word "suppression", therefore coldly advocating the killing of human people, makes me sick !

I'm greatly worried. I've read a number of posts in this forum where people clearly advocated the use of deadly force against protesters.

First I don't remember PAD opponents EVER making such request during PAD protest.

More disturbing is the fact that those posts are allowed to be published.

Best solution :

people realize that Thaksin is worst PM except all the others that have been tried ...

Very good!

I usually don't like when people edit my post to make me say something I didn't say but as this time it was what I thought, I will make an exception

Best solution :

- All protest leaders (Red and Yellow) get a 10 years suspended sentence and banned for life from politic

- Blanket amnesty for all politicians (for those who worry to see Thaksin back, he still convicted and banned as a protest leader)

- New election, who ever win win and everybody agree not to contest in any way the result.

Most probable solution :

People get sick of this mess, the Army tried and failed, the Democrats tried and failed, all other forms of coalition tried and failed. Then you know where I'm going .... people realize that Thaksin is worst PM except all the others that have been tried ...

I don't know about you but I'm personally fed up with those people who supported the PAD demonstration and now condemned reds' demonstration. PAD demonstration was in NO WAY legitimate but in supporting them you gave legitimacy to Reds' demonstation.

The Democrats had the chance to calm things down, but what those did ? They hired PAD activists, they actually promoted them to minister level, then they sued the police for their action during PAD protest, adding insult to injury.

Now those dumb ass want the army to open fire on the crowd, what the life of a few hundreds "rural people", they will learn their lesson and we will remind them their right place in the society at the same time.

I will stop now because I'm not a violent person, but please I hope that everybody will bookmark this page and later remember who asked first for the bloodbath.