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groovyc
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Posts posted by groovyc
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Chamlong said from now on, PAD volunteer guards will monitor the movement of the police and military officers who are taking care of security for the PAD rally sites to make sure they are doing their duty.
ha????????????
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By Ed Cropley
BANGKOK, Nov 29 (Reuters) - The assault by the People's Alliance for
Democracy (PAD) was swift and savage, a head-on charge by a convoy of vehicles
speeding down the wrong side of an expressway into scores of unarmed police.
As the terrified officers fled, some of them jumping through the open
door of accelerating police vans, wild-eyed young men burst from the PAD
vehicles, attacking with sling shots, fireworks, iron bars and wooden stakes.
The onslaught lasted no more than 15 seconds but left the five-lane
highway, the main access route to Bangkok's besieged Suvarnabhumi airport,
littered with broken glass and discarded police helmets and truncheons.
Ok all you pro-PAD members who claim "peaceful protest" ad infinitum on here, please give me one reason not to call you're PAD friends TERRORIST SCUM.
Many of you cried over this terminology ealier today and yesterday so I imagine you have some explanation or excuse for PAD's terroristic activities.
Here goes...did anyone count the police heads?
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JD ---again you are avoiding the terrorism claim because no one was hurt by the PAD's irresponsible actions. Seiging an airport and breaking into the control tower during its operations is an act of terrorism plain and clear. The disruption could have caused a 747 to crash and kill 400 tourist. It was lucky no one was hurt. If during 911 the passengers had got control of the airplanes and they landed and no one was hurt would that make it not an act of terrorism?
Joe --- 3 people were allowed into the control tower if I remember correctly. The PAD are having a peaceful sit-in at the airport.
Could Could Could ----Joe get real they didn't kill anyone. They didn't beat people. They took a group of people, walked into the airport area .. set up some defenses and sat down ... turned on the music .. chatted with the people they were inconveniencing ...
Terrorist is just a word you are bandying about to to dehumanize them, they have been overall a very calm and polite group when it came to talking with the passengers at the airport.
This is a battle for the future of Thailand and frankly very little else matters to these people (and if anything else mattered to the Gov't other than holding power and protecting their benefactor, they would have called new elections)
allowed into the control tower? are you kidding me?? they went to do sightseeing?? would I be allowed to get in there next time I fly? at least I pay the airport tax mind u.
While I can't see anything wrong in any govt wanting to hold power (actually, isn't it part of the responsibility of being elected?), protecting the name of democracy just might matter to them as well. (Not that I believe so for a fact)
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Joe --- again you are avoiding the whole 'terrorism' thing you claim. There is no way to make a claim that this is 'terrorism'.
Is it good for Thailand? Who knows? It certainly isn't a tactic I would have chosen. Damaging "for years to come" is supposition. It certainly is causing damage right now but is it more or less damage than getting the convicted Thaksin excused by his brother-in-law illegally? Is it like surgery, where you must cause some damage to affect a cure? Right now it sucks ... but it may be that it really was the lesser of two evils.
JD ---again you are avoiding the terrorism claim because no one was hurt by the PAD's irresponsible actions. Seiging an airport and breaking into the control tower during its operations is an act of terrorism plain and clear. The disruption could have caused a 747 to crash and kill 400 tourist. It was lucky no one was hurt. If during 911 the passengers had got control of the airplanes and they landed and no one was hurt would that make it not an act of terrorism?
Actually, it is not factually correct to say noone was hurt (physically). The whole world saw the video on BBC on the first day with PAD thugs shooting on a public road. I am not sure about the casualties there, but they certainly weren't rubber bullets, and criminal intent was evident. Also, yesterday's shooting by a PAD gunman of a few people talking in their private premises inflicted several injuries and one death. I am sure there are more to come very soon, maybe some dead cops tonight.
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It would not be anything new to someone that would support terrorism. I will never be able to convince Al Qaida that 911 is justifiyed. And I will never convince you that seiging the airport is justifiyed. Radicals have their aggenda and the civilized world has to deal with them with force.
Pretty easy for you to make an accusation like that hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet. Sadly I think you may be that shallow to actually believe what you just spewed... You sound more like a radical extremist considering it is your view or no view. I am not a radical; I am not a terrorist and certainly do not support. I am actually a US Citizen and would bleed on my flag to keep it red. Would you?
There is only one Joe I know here in Surin and it is me. Hardly anonymous. I am shallow and a radical by believing in law and order?? I am a US citizen also. Most people I know in the USA that would bleed on the flag would not support taking over airports and breaking the law. As a supporter of PAD and taking over airports how far do you think you and your PAD buddies would have got in taking over an airport in the USA? You would have been bleeding but not on a flag.
Dang Joe wrong again... I have no PAD buddies, I am not really even a staunch PAD supporter. I believe in the cause of removing corruptness in the government. Yes Joe, Thailand currently has a puppet government financed and owned by Tacky and his family. Will the next one be any better? Probably not, Tacky had enough money to buy the votes he needed, and apparently has his family deeply rooted in the system. But one fight at a time Joe.
US citizen eh...why am I not so surprised. On a different thread, on a different date perhaps, I wouldn't mind hearing out what you have done towards the cause of "removing corruptness in the [uS] govt"....
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THEY (the PAD) haven't lobbed grenades and hurt innocents, that would be those opposed to them.
get your facts right, would you? please..
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Sondi says PAD will leave after Dec 2 if PPP is disbanded... then why is PAD doing what they are doing now? Why are they causing this chaos?
After the PPP is disbanded, Sondi will find a new reason to protest.
This domestic terrorist belongs in prison. Nothing less.
Behave
I don't think that one can (or should) use the word "terrorist" for Sondhi -- I think that his activities are certainly *criminal* and (questionably) "treasonable" ... but they are *not* terror-related.
He (and all his followers by sticking by him) is a terrorist by all means. Do you mean to say they haven't inflicted terror on anyone? I don't even want to elaborate.
You obviously have no idea what terrorism is... I have to think there is some shred of intelligence in you where you can research terror attacks in history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism Apparently you have no idea.
wxp: you have no idea, I've lived with terror(ism) all my childhood. sitting behind your monitor, punching at your keyboard, the closest you could get to is some videogame i suppose? I bet you rarely even heard the word before 9/11 eh?
I don't have to research by googling when I have experienced it first hand.
Joe: I am not sure if you refer to me or not, but your wiki link goes:
Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.[1] There is no internationally agreed definition of terrorism.[2][3] Most common definitions of terrorism include only those acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants.
Obviously, it is difficult to define it as it comes in different forms. Sondhi has created fear (terror) in more people than you imagine...nobody who followed the events would argue with that. The "coercion" part is satisfied by definition.
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I was just wondering...
when this thing is over, is Sondhi etc. going to be held accountable for the damage they inflicted?
Or is the thai constitution / criminal law so screwed up that they're ganna walk?
btw, I wouldn't mind releasing the air outa some cop car/truck tyres too, if its one of my constitutional rights...sounds fun.
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Sondi says PAD will leave after Dec 2 if PPP is disbanded... then why is PAD doing what they are doing now? Why are they causing this chaos?
After the PPP is disbanded, Sondi will find a new reason to protest.
This domestic terrorist belongs in prison. Nothing less.
Behave
I don't think that one can (or should) use the word "terrorist" for Sondhi -- I think that his activities are certainly *criminal* and (questionably) "treasonable" ... but they are *not* terror-related.
He (and all his followers by sticking by him) is a terrorist by all means. Do you mean to say they haven't inflicted terror on anyone? I don't even want to elaborate.
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Here's some good quotes from Sunai of Human Rights Watch in Bangkok
"The PAD has become an armed group," Sunai said. While the group's guards are armed, most PAD members occupying the airports are not. They are a mix of middle-aged women and men, and some parents with children.
Sunai strongly criticized PAD leaders for not demanding that parents with children leave the airports, as a police move against the protesters was being prepared. "They are getting like Jim Jones," Sunai said, referring to the American religious cult leader who led more than 900 of his followers in a mass suicide in Guyana in 1978.
They of course will not even let them go. This doesn't mean the law enforcement should make this hinder their much awaited initiative. These people came at their will at first anyway. Whatever repercussions theyre to suffer is a result of their own stupidity. The sane majority of the country cannot and doesn't need to afford the loss any more.
About parents who dragged their kids, these people shouldn't be parents in the first place! my thoughts are with the kids/infants.
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Back on OT. I suggest in future, nobody reply to the troll posts supporting PAD.
<SNIPPED>
Wow that is bold. So you are saying that people supporting PAD here are trolls? If this is not what you are saying, please clarify. Because this sounds a little elitist on your part.
<edited for bad spelling>
No they are supporting acts of terrorism. Trolls I can deal with. Terrorist and their supporters I can not.
You weren't exactly the poster to which i replied. Nevertheless, perhaps you should look deep into the depths of those you support before you throw around terms like "terrorist" or terrorism.
get da 'ell outa here. go join 'em in swampy if u have the guts. TERRORIST
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On ASTV right now, you can see in the background that the Suvarnabumi elevators are still operational with people riding on them.
Who's riding them with this "airport closure", and who's paying for all the electricity at that rally right now???
Of course, you and me with the 700B(?) airport tax. won't be surprised if they raise it next month.
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I chose not to vote. Actually, I don't see the necessity of a poll for "backing" a coup, as it is not the kind of subject that comes up for debate in any civilized democratic (in the real English meaning of the word) society.
Interesting if we could see a break up of the results by voters' nationality (thai vs. non-thai)
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And if closing Don Muang was meant to prevent ministers from meeting with Somchai in Chiang Mai, I suppose they will also begin blocking all highways so that the ministers can't simply get into their Benz and take a seven hour drive up to Chiang Mai? This is ludicrous.
I bet many are thinking this. If they DID close DM just for that purpose, that in itself sums up what kind of idiots we are dealing with here. Obviously their IQ and that of their supporters on tv has severe limitations. How on earth could anyone even expect them to have a plan for a transition into a "better" govt? Ironically, knowing better doesn't make life better here.
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Hmmm OK so whats the answer, I was due to leve Thailand on a Singapore airlines flight tomorrow. I have had no contact from anyone telling me what to do? The only information is from here and the tv NEWS. How do I get back home and whos responsability is it?
it seems you are here to stay for a while unless you take the train to singapore. whose responsibility? good question. If you'd like to hold someone responsible for this kinda thing, its best to avoid this hel_lhole next time. Whatever your business was here, I am sure there are other alternatives? I'm not trying to be cynical here...just some thoughts going thru many peoples minds right now put into words.
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My father who has been in the airport since last night waiting for a flight with Thai Airways have finaly managed to leave the airport for a hotel in Bangkok.
Nothing has been arranged by Thai Airways, not even any information. The transport and hotel was arranged by a representative from Scandinavian Airlines but he have to pay the costs himself. Thai Airways doesn't give a s**t.
I don't think I will ever use Thai Airways again.
A formal complaint should be made. Indeed is very bad service. Nevertheless, they aren't legally responsible for providing transport/hotel in this kind of situation.
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Jakrapob revealed that the visa cancellation of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife by the United Kingdom was sought by a former Thai foreign minister who promised to protect the interest of the UK in Phuket in exchange for the visa revocation in order to humiliate Thaksin.
/sarcasm
Yup. That's how we roll in the UK.
And of course with our huge regional interests on that tiny island we simply could not turn up the opportunity of a single man defending our interests there...
/sarcasm
Jakrapob has clearly shown how blinkered and introverted his view of the world is if he truly said this.
The UK is not like Thailand. We don't make policy based on cash backhanders.......
well well well, this surely isn't the place for this arguement, but since it has started:
As unbelievable as Jakrapob's statement sounds, I wouldn't be so surprised if it is true.
Why? Because I can't find any reasonable explanation for the visa cancellation of Thaksin,
when criminals / terrorists of banned organizations etc live and carry on with their trade
under the nose of SY within the protective umbrella of "political refugee".
As long as there is no reasonable explanation given, I'd rather keep my eyes open.
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try www.taladrod.com
you will get an idea of the prices as well.
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Below is a post by Grant from another thread on this subject. If you wish to read entire thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Importing-2n...ar-t212928.html
Example Calculation of Taxes and Duties
The following example shows a breakdown of the liable taxes and duties assessed on the vehicles less than 2400 c.c. cylinder capacity with a CIF value of 1,000,000 Baht.
CIF value of the imported vehicle and applicable taxes and duties are as follows:
CIF value of the import = 1,000,000 Baht
Import duty = 80 %
Excise tax = 35 %
Interior tax = 10 % of excise tax
VAT = 7 %
The total import duties and taxes imposed on this import are calculated as follows:
1. Import duty = (CIF value * Rate of import duty)
= (1,000,000 * )
= 800,000 Baht
2. Excise tax = (CIF value + import duty) * {Rate of excise tax/1-(1.1 * Rate of excise tax)}
= (1,000,000+800,000) * {0.35/1-(1.1*0.35)}
= 1,800,000 * 0.5691057
= 1,024,390.20 Baht
3. Interior tax = Excise tax * Rate of interior tax
= 1,024,390.20 * 0.1
= 102,439.02 Baht
4. Base VAT = (CIF value+ Import duty+ Excise tax + Interior tax)
= (1,000,000 + 800,000 + 1,024,390.20 + 102,439.02)
= 2,926,829.20 Baht
5. VAT = Base VAT * VAT Rate
= 2,926,829.20 *0.07
= 204,878.04 Baht
Total taxes and duties = 1+2+3+5 = 2,131,707.20 Baht or 213.17%
I think your biggest problem will be what value they decide to place on the value of your car. Will they use the Thailand book value or what you claim as the UK value.
I think that particular BMW can be purchased here and I think its used value is much higher here than the UK so which value do you think they will pick?
Bottom line, they can place whatever value they wish on your vehicle.
These numbers will apply if your car is below 2500cc and 220HP.
In determining the CIF value, the you will get a 25% discount for a 2yr old car on the purchase price (cost element) plus actual insurance and freight charges.
http://www.customs.go.th/Customs-Eng/Perso...Nme=PersonalPer
I am not sure exactly how they determine the cost : I believe they ask the dealer.. In this case, the price in Germany might apply rather than that in the UK? i wonder..
It is best to contact the bmw dealership, but they can be quite difficult to deal with.
Try a used car dealer who has many imported used cars (like perhaps Z3/4's) for sale for a 2nd opinion.
(This is where the customs can really take you for a ride by adding up for "options")
As someone mentioned, many people have lost their beloved cars trying to import them here. Make sure you know what you are doing. And keep us posted!
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Thanks!
You know i've been looking through these forums on and off for some months now, and I've never seen the motor forum section! That was part of my problem.
Ahh thats a relief to know about taxes, and that buying a second hand car is actually feasible. Although getting myself a new honda jazz is tempting (just because i can) it would be much more reasonable for me to buy used.
Thanks again
All depends on how much money you have/are prepared to lose, for trouble free motoring.
If you're going to be in LOS for 4 years I'd buy new...No headaches for the length of the warranty and the depreciation over 4 years will not be outrageous
RAZZ
The depreciation would be 30-70% in 4 yrs depending on the model (and the condition of course).
I would rather go for a 4yr old car with a good record and possibly a model which depreciates more within the first few years, if I needed a hassle free cost-effective ride.
btw, I was at a car auction yesterday and a fleet of 2003 corolla altis 1.6ers went for 356k+VAT.
that's a 50% depreciation in 5 yrs - the next 5 will take off a max of 20% more.
they've done more than 200k kms but seemed to be pretty well maintained and in very good condition.
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I just bought a 1994 525. It has a 3 liter 6 cyl twin turbo fron a Toyota Supra. I believe this motor has alot more power than the standard engine. It runs great. I am looking to put stock springs back in to raise it up some because it has been lowered and rides to rough. Other than that it is a great combo. The 3 series is about 600 lbs lighter and about 10 inches shorter. I guess if ti were a race car I would worry but it is a family car for me.
The toyota engines are getting pretty common with 90's beemers here. I wonder if the reason is merely a quest for power or does it happen upon failure of the original engines..
anyway, how much did your 525 cost, tvmax?
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In all likelihood you would be paying more than 10% interest(interest + VAT!) on your finance deal, in spite of being quoted 3-4%. Check out my previous post on absurd interest calculation formulae in LOS.
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If you do, 316 has less power than a golf cart, and if you have to get a 5 series don't even consider the 520.
its generally agreed that if you buy a 5 series, its gotta be a 530 up.
How general is this observation I wonder. I wouldn't argue about the 316 vs. power, and frankly I am not sure about the 520 either (let me try a 520 MT first), but I have no complains with the 525 (with my very little experience) and I see so many 520's and 525's on the road that I wonder...
I wouldn't buy a BM in Thailand. 300% overpriced.M3 or M5 is the only way to go and only thaksin can (could) afford one of those over here!
mm, a bit off topic but let me give my 2-satangs worth as I've given quite some thought to this.
first of all, its about 1000% overpriced for the models I'm looking and compared to where I come from.
(Japan: basically, where I was before. >10yrs old BM's go for virtually free there.
Needless to say, the difference is even more for japanese cars)
As a result, I was driving cheap crappy cars at first in Thailand, only to realize that I was comparing
apples against durians, and as a result having trouble with cheap cars while my thai colleagues were
driving brand new cars paying 80% of their salary on the finance!
(btw, I was getting a jap salary all the time: the irony was heartbreaking)
Let's face it: A car in Thailand is not what it is in Japan; or anywahere else where taxes are ~10%.
And as long as we are here for a while, need a car, could afford it at least more than most of the others
who own one, let's not fuss too much about it. After all, we pay less for many other things here. (eg.my lunch=25B!)
and even the road taxes/insurance/parking/repairs(labour) cost considerably less here.
(in jp, I would have spent ~15000B/month on the above).
As for German vs. Japanese cars, the former are less overpriced for the 10yr old class here
(compared to Japan), and hence my interest.
At least BMW won't be using sub-standard parts on cars for foreign markets like the Japs (I hope..)
Suvarnabhumi PAD Protest Continues
in Thailand News
Posted
You forgot to mention one thing: I hope the constitution gets amended so that the perpetrators of the previous group are brought to justice.