Wuffy

Couple of things.

1) For those bashing Thai Immigration, I don't doubt you've had some bad experiences. However, I live in Chiang Mai, and have nothing but good things to say about the Immigration Office here and the people who work there. In the 4+ years I've been dealing with them, I've always found them to be friendly and helpful with whatever I needed.

2) Have a female friend of about 30. Parents are American, but have lived here since before she was born. She acually has dual US/Thai citizenship. She married a man from Holland. The had a daughter. Then about 5-6 years ago he simply walked out on her saying he didn't want to be married to her any more, and moved in with new, younger Thai g/f. She has tried gettiing a divorce here, but told me under Dutch law, the only way she can do it is go to Holland, live & work for 1 year, apply for citizenship, and THEN file for divorce.

3) As for the woman - and I use that term lightly - in this story. It would appear that she's only after money, and will draw attention to herself any way she can in order to achieve that.

After reading this thread people seem to conflate and confuse 2 points a lot.

People are complaining about the Policies about Thai Immigration and how they are very odd and arbitrary, other people come up and defend the actual people working at immigration.

People are complaining that the Visa regulations in thailand are awkward and actually very difficult to deal with. I've always had a decent time with the actual officers, but much of the required papperwork and processing is pointless hoop jumping.I have a friend who is Married, has been for many years, but he still has to meet odd criteria, still has to go and do a bunch of paperwork when wanting to leave and come back for a holiday, each year has to re apply for the visa he has held for 8 years now.

So the complaints aren't about the officers, but the established procedures, and the mountains of pointless papers required. (How many photocopies of your passport do they NEED on file?)

The trouble with this article is that it ignores the fact that thailand has been attempting to do long term planning for quite some time.

There was a very functional plan to manage a flood crisis, I don't know how well it would have worked had it not been tampered with but it was still planned and put in place.

But the main problem against it was the immediate greed of the people who didn't care, the developers who built new structures in the area's marked for water run off or right over and into the Klongs that were designed for water run off in case of flood.

It doesn't matter if the government has finally woken up to needing to plan into the future, unless it's going to start enforcing and double checking it's initiatives are put in palce and that graft isn't eroding at those plans.

"The finding was particularly surprising since there is no established biological mechanism that would explain how radiation exposure might cause heart disease. However, the research team stressed that its analysis could not rule out other factors that could explain the link, such as work-related stress or irregular shift patterns.

That was 2008, now its know that its due to the fact that heart cells replace themselves very slowly and are susceptible to radiation. "Stress" please ???

the most prevalant radiation related diease occuring in radiation worker is luekemia and that is scientifically proven.

It seems to be you post some random link or comment and when some proves you wrong, you do not debate but just post another random link.

Radiation can cause cancer AND now discovered, can cause heart disease. Not good then is it??

But again, it's all about the doses. The amount you are exposed to. Other tigns that can cause heart 'disease' Stress, Eating, Genetics...

A car accident is also very bad for your heart, and you only need 1 for it to be fatal.

Excercise, can do it too.

If you are vague about exposures and just say it can kill you, I can write a list with "Everything" On it and it will be correct.

And Bananas !!! believe me

http://chemistry.abo...radioactive.htm

More nuclear industry clap trap - other people have tested bananas and found no radiation in them at all.

Not an official chart by experts but it's to give reference to Laymen about radiation.

Be careful Eating two banana's gives TWICE the amount of radiation! Breathing twice gives TWICE the oxygen.

Saying something is double doesn't mean it's immediately dangerous when no measurements are given.

WHo the heck started the dam_n panic about that test reactor. the bloody thing is installed on higher floors, it was a test reactor and it's been shut down for months because they couldn't source fuel for it.

Who's bright Idea was it to write an article about it? Because now instead of usefull news we have to deal with an update everyday that "No it still has not leaked."

Now I'm more worried about the potential chemicals that have run from flooded factories.

{SNIP}

Yup big problem. Funnily enough though, they don't seem to have any issue letting industrial estates go under, which will probably cause many companies to relocate if they can't get insurance, but office blocks which can't move, contain people and computers stored way away from the flood on the 50th floor are an insurance issue.

It would be interesting to know if the original contracts to build the factories where they were included a flood protection provision. In which case, I would expect a few extremely minted families who built and own these industrial parks to be puckering up a bit waiting for the insurance companies to be coming after them.

Show me where there was a choice between flooding bangkok and keeping those industrial zones dry was.

IF the choice was clear cut, IF we flood here this will be not flooded at all HERE. Tell me when that choice came up and was made?

This Flood is a terrible crisis, But creating MORE damage and risking the infrastructure and undermining the health and safety of even MORE property will help those places that are thoroughly screwed and unusable.

Most of the flooded factories now will have to be gutted and stripped and refitted to be made work safe again.

Are you suggesting that we must do this to homes, offices and small family stores. Create the potential for more infection to fester and hide within dry wall all across the city?

All this in the hopes it will MAYBE drain the water faster... and not just turn MORE of bangkok and it's surrounding area into a pond.

Then we can turn what was the nickname for the airport into the title of the city, no longer city of Angels, now Swampy.

"So far no deaths in Bangkok have been reported in the official toll."

When will bangkok people get it.

bangkok should take the fair share of the flood as well.

Not just let people outside bangkok die. More than 400 ALREADY.

How about Chiang Mai? Udon? How about they take their fair share of deaths too! Isn't all of Thailand together in this? Come on let's drown people all across the country, Shoot out Both feet and arms!

"BANGKOK, November 2, 2011 (AFP) - The death toll from Thailand's worst floods in decades surged above 400 .... ... .. . So far no deaths in Bangkok have been reported in the official toll."

I hope this will make those trying to justify shuting the floodgate sleep better at night.

Bangkok is not all that Thailand has.

There are human living outside Bangkok too, not just buffalos.

Your posts are not getting more intelligent sparebox2, you are rather digging yourself down deeper and deeper

Please explain how flooding the area that generates 40% of the tax revenue that the government gets will improve the governments ability to help the poor

More to the point. Explain how causing more damage to the infrastructure and putting more peoples lives in danger will help Thailand.

Nuclear power is a classic example - the best & cleanest power we have, but given bad press by these a**holes.

and Earthquakes...

Except it got hit by an earthquake it wasn't rated for, smashed by a tsunami... and still didn't meltdown.

The only difficulty right now is an energy shortage because the Sheer amount of power coming from a nuclear plant is now missing and would take MANY alternative sources to even fill that gap and using anythig but renewable power to fill that gap is more damadging to the environment then anything that leaked out of that plant.

Stockholm syndrome obviously not working.

Personally I'm always surprised by the Red's crack negotiation skills. "Give me what I want, THEN we can talk about agreeing whether you want to give it to me."

"Dissolve Parliament now and hold elections in 15 days, THEN we negotiate for protest to end and for when the election should be held."

"Stop shooting at us and withdraw troops, THEN we can negotiate a cease fire."

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

The red shirts do not want an unconditional ceasefire. They will only make more impossible demands. Why is the foreign media supporting the red side. Why are they ignoring that the reds have arms as well?

Sorry I need to say this.

I love your "Avatar"

On to responding to your comment.

The foreign media has been doing an awful job of reporting the story, the red's are the poor underdogs, and of course if they report contrary, they will be dismissed now since most of the other stories are saying the opposite.

My biggest problem is with calling them Protesters. It's above and beyond a protest.

Many people have a real problem when an unelected government forces its way into power through illegal manipulation of the very processes that were supposedly put in place to protect it. Abhisit should have dissolved parliament, stepped down as PM, and called for elections long ago… to preserve democracy. Instead, he has spent his entire term fighting against democracy, not for it. An illegitimate government with blood on its hands violates its published rules of engagement and now threatens innocent protestors with prison terms and/or the threat of death if they do not comply with their wishes. The government has succeeded only in preserving its illegitimacy.

The last thing this so called democratic government seems to want is an election… they believe they will lose. What they do seem to want is to hold onto power long enough to install their handpicked Army representatives to facilitate a future coup (pending next election results… which will most likely not be in their favor) and derail any chance for a democratic process...again.

The government swiftly rejects UN mediation to help resolve this crisis because if the UN were to get involved then the truth would be even more apparent…. that it isn't Abhisit making the decisions to begin with.

The truth is out there, it's just banned in Thailand!

5000 rioters do not dictate terms.

Your truth is somewhere in Montenegro or Dubai or......

There is an election scheduled, just not at the time Thaksin wants it.

Abhisit has rejected the Reds calling for UN mediation. The UN did not ask to mediate, He did not turn them away at the gates of the country.

Should we go ask Hans Blix to come in and check if the Reds really do have weapons too?

Annd a little cherry on top.

At ratchaprasong, the #redshirts guards take a female journalist behind the stage. http://tweetphoto.com/22910119 /via @satien_nna

Update: Female Journalist, was making a documentary of the women and children in the temple. /via @satien_nna

Update: Female Journalist was thought by the protesters to be fake. assaulted her inside temple. #Redshirts Guards help her! /v @satien_nna

Nice innocent protesters.

It IS nonsense. No one can trust their word anymore, because they keep stalling. They should have negotiated in good faith before things got hairy; they need to stand down, before things get even worse.

I don't know what you were doing during hours and days that the initial negotiating was going on between the Reds and Abisit, but I sat glued to the tv with a friend who translated it to me. When each day was over, I asked what was agreed on? His answer was, no agreement. Abisit only know one word; NO.

This is not negotiating nor is it coming to a compromise. I don't speak Thai, but I do understand the international body/facial language, and what my friend says coincides with what I saw. Even he, who leans more towards yellow and definitely is not red, laughed and shook his head several times during the process at how unmoving Abisit was.

Do you know what Abhisit said "No" to?

The reds demanded only one thing. They didn't compromise or negotiate. They only ever demand.

Their demand from the start was "government dissolution". Abhisit quite rightly said "No".

Instead, Abhisit offered a plan. Fix the constitution with input from ALL parties, a referendum for the people to vote, and then elections in December.

The reds stopped negotiating, and refused to negotiate further. And they didn't change their demand.

Abhisit then offered the "road map" with elections in November, if the protests stop. The reds basically accepted, but then went back on their word by continuing the protests.

The only ones that have been unmoving is the reds. Abhisit offered negotiations. Abhisit offered compromises. All the reds would offer is more protests. No negotiation. No compromise.

If they really wanted to negotiate, they would stop expanding their protest zone, and instead pull back to their original locations. The army would stay where they are, where they have been for 2 weeks - it's only been the reds that have pushed out.

Even now, they say they will negotiate IF the army pulls back. Nothing about the reds pulling back. Just the army.

Absolutely.

I have been following this very closely. What concessions have the Govt made?

How about moving the election to Novermber 15? It was rejected.

Read my previous post again: Nov 15 This concession was offered with many conditions attached. A roadmap to uniting Thailand was and still is a great idea, but posting conditions after the many delays, defaults of court cases on one side ,and the speeding up of cases on another side. Even you would have to agree it is sceptical Nov15 would happen.

com·pro·mise [kom-pruh-mahyz] –noun

1.a settlement of differences by mutual concessions; an agreement reached by adjustment of conflicting or opposing claims, principles, etc., by reciprocal modification of demands.

2.the result of such a settlement.

3.something intermediate between different things: The split-level is a compromise between a ranch house and a multistoried house.

4.an endangering, esp. of reputation; exposure to danger, suspicion, etc.: a compromise of one's integrity. –verb (used with object)

5.to settle by a compromise.

6.to expose or make vulnerable to danger, suspicion, scandal, etc.; jeopardize: a military oversight that compromised the nation's defenses.

7.Obsolete. a.to bind by bargain or agreement. b.to bring to terms. –verb (used without object)

8.to make a compromise or compromises: The conflicting parties agreed to compromise.

9.to make a dishonorable or shameful concession: He is too honorable to compromise with his principles.

In short:

One side asks for something, the other agrees if first side also does something in return. Or is met halfway on the demand.

The government has tried to make deals and compromise.

Of course they want conditions.

Their conditions were; Leave the city, Give enough time for Politicians to choose candidates and run campaigns, Join us in correcting the constitution.

On the other hand Red shirts demand demand demand, Heck the first time they were asked to come negotiate, they said they would negotiate AFTER their demands were met, and you are skeptical of the government?

edit: Formating

It IS nonsense. No one can trust their word anymore, because they keep stalling. They should have negotiated in good faith before things got hairy; they need to stand down, before things get even worse.

Agreed. The reds need to make a dramatic gesture to show their good faith now that they have totally darkened their name, even among previous supporters such as you. Best idea to the reds -- GO HOME. Then politely ask for early elections and pledge no more violence. Guess what? Abhisit will probably say yes.

Agreed.

Want a Ceasefire? Pack your shit, Go home. Want the government to stop cracking down on you, STOP burning shit to the ground.

If the protest leaders have lost controle. GO HOME. This can only end in tears, now it's only a mater of how many we will end up crying over.

You had it, Right in your hands, exactly what you asked for AND MORE.

it's sad when intelligent people are blinded by their own indulgence... I'll post this again... those reading the posts here, and who believe military intervention is the solution, need pay close attention to this video.

I'm not asking the military to crack down. I want the red shirts to go home and think about what their Grievances ARE. not what they think the solution should be.

Loss of life is bad, absolutly, but the red's aren't the only ones dying, random civilians trying to go about life as normal have been wounded. People have been injured and killed in grenade attacks around the city.

You post a video saying the military has shot a red shirt (or at least Imply it.)

I'm referencing the Grenades being lobbed at the BTS from Lumpini park that killed a woman and wounded several others.

Neither of us can point to the culprit of either and say "Them" with certainty but we have our proof.

All loss of life is utterly unacceptable but so is letting a city be held hostage by a group of moody children.

I want the reds to go home, Think about what their grievances are. Not tell me to follow their solution, not to demand the government follow their solution.

Bring a grievance and have it discussed, protest it peacefully in the area which was designated as okay.

Shutting down a large segment of the city is not okay.

Fortifying yourself into an encampment is not okay.

Searching people who want to visit/go home/go about their lives is not okay.

Comparing the Red shirts and Yellow shirt protests is POINTLESS, we can NOT go back in time.

We can't tell the current government to act just like the old government, there's a reason the old government was not voted back in.

Just because I want the reds to go home does not mean I supported the Yellow shirts and their invasion of the airport, But it's done. It happened most everyone realises thinks it was a bad Idea. We have lived through the occurences of having a mob roam the streets and take over buildings and muck around. We have had enough.

If the PM does not crush the rebellion he will be criticized. If he does he will be vilified. He is in a no-win situation.

I'm glad we have such a good man in charge at a time like this. Look at some of the past PMs. Who knows what kind of bonehead will replace him?

Is this the same Ulysses, or have you been taken over by aliens?

Enlightened self interest, I suspect.

Actually, I always said that I prefer the current government to stay in power and I always supported the PM. I support him even more now after seeing how he has handled this. However, I also felt - and still feel - that the redshirts have some legitimate grievances and these need to be addressed if the country is going to move forward.

The spiteful, poison pen red-haters seem to think that anyone who does not rant and rave about them is a redshirt supporter, but some of us have sympathy for their problems while realizing that the leaders are mostly crooks. I live in Chiang Mai and many of these people are my neighbors and most of them are not bad people. They just want a chance to improve their lives.

They made their point several weeks ago and could have had a real chance at a strong voice in Thai politics, but they blew it when they turned down the PM's generous peace deal and now everyone is paying for their leader's stubbornness.

I hope there is some way to salvage some kind of solution, but it is time for them to admit their mistake and give up fighting. They were so close to really accomplishing something important , but they rejected ending this peacefully, so no cigar.

I agree the red's have some legitimate grievances, but the problem is that their grievances have been pushed aside.

The protest didn't come to Bangkok telling us what their grievances were, they came demanding what they were told was the only option.

If the red shirts want their situation resolved burning tires and the city down will not accomplish that.

They need to draw back the movement and step away from the greedy bastards who confused and abused their good will.

Get back to what they really want fixed as opposed to this piss poor solution of immediate dissolution.

I really want to see those issues addressed, I want them to get together and itemized the problems and actually discuss how to solve it with the government. THEN if the government completely fails to aknowledge it to protest and call for dissolution.

Thats a bit harsh...kill the innocent protestors in the camp that are sticking up for the rights whether they are right or wrong?

It never ceases to amaze me how farangs on thaivisa seem to think they know best about thailand and how to deal with thailands problems.

What is also very funny is that i have scoured the thai tv channels to seem some live coverage and all i can find is thai soaps and other nonsense things...yet thaivisa has thousands of high intelligent members going crazy about others people problems..If you are a farang with a thai passport then fair enough..its your problem as well you fellow country mens.

"Red Shirts haven't committed a crime. What they are doing is failure to comply with the law."

Just to agree with that post and add a little flavour.

This really cannot be called a protest anymore, or even at all.

I can not recall the last time I heard anywhere a protest who shut down business' (Peta would love to have your recipe I'm sure.)

When was last time you had a protest fortify itself into a compound in the middle of the street?

When was the last time a protest involved searching cars and people going about their daily lives?

How about shutting down a LARGE section of a city?

How about declaring that the army couldn't make them move or they will attack them?

They have moved in, it's occupation.

And I don't know about you but I am rather annoyed that couch surfer has stayed so long. And when someone told him ok enough go home, suddenly it turns into a brawl.

I might even agree that the red shirts had grievances, things that need to be resolved...

I would have liked the red shirt protest to um... Actually point them out.

Calling for house dissolution and a New election isn't a grievance, it's a really shitty shortcut workaround.

That probably wont work.

I'm pretty sure that's him here:

I can;t tell who it is under that helmet.

Tell Thaksin to take the helmet off so we can see it's him.

Bah.

I know where I wish he was

It is true that we don't know who shot those grenades yet... and we may never know for sure. However, the only ones who will benefit from escalating violence are the Reds themselves. Furthermore, the grenade attacks that started during the Yellow protests and have continued to the present have always targeted people or institutions that are seen as being hostile to the Reds. While a 'false flag operation' is always possible, this would be an unusually prolonged one!

I do hope that the army does not respond rashly to this provocation. A harsh response is exactly what the more extreme Reds want. Also, it would be a huge PR boost for the Reds if the Red Guards arrested the extremists who did this and turned them over to the police.

1. How does the media know for certain that the explosions were caused by M-79 grenades? After all, they exploded and no trace remains except perhaps for fragments. The M-79 fires different types of ordinance including explosive, anti-personnel, smoke, buckshot, and illumination rounds (Source: Wikipedia). Which type was shot?

2. If they were M-79's, then as weapons of war (fired from a launcher) they would be almost exclusively used by the military and therefore must have originated from that source. As far as I know, M-79 grenades are not available for sale in Central Department stores nor can they be imported legally by the general public. Of course, those high up in the Reds could probably obtain these weapons of the "back of a truck" but I would be surprised if they were easy to obtain.

3. Therefore, if they were M-79 grenades then the likelihood is that they were fired by military units who were in the area.

4. Given that the Reds were facing armed military and police, it is unlikely (and stupid) that they would provoke an attack. I have heard reports that some Reds had guns but I know that ALL Police had guns and probably the Military were armed accordingly with high powered assault rifles.

I hope we do not have any more incidents tonight and I offer condolences to the family of the person that was killed in the incident. I fear that this is just the beginning.

I'm sure people will come out with the appropriate quotes but al lot of calls from the red stage has been just that inciting provocation with the military, saying things like they are coming soon get ready to lay your lives on the line, setting up bamboo barricades with sharpened sticks and rubber tires SOAKED in accelerant.

Yes these are the actions of someone not trying to provoke the army.

It's VERY hard to keep controlling ones emotions. I know I'm struggling daily not to just advocate a rush of force against any of these gathering groups that are trying to goad each other into a fight. And I'm back here reading this stuff second hand.

RED mobs is clearly illegal. They will get it (jail) when the smoke settled.

All other mobs (YELLOW/BLUE/PINK/WHITE/MULTI/SILOM) are clearly legal, as they oppose the illegal one.

Also the police/army needs the SILOM mobs as they shower them with gifts and donations.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

All Mobs should disperse or set up an area AWAY from each other.

Last thing we need is more groups of angry people daring each other to violence.

Sad that people call the reds animals, criminals and what the like. This is what happens when the poor and uneducated are disenfranchised. Any one of us in that position might do the same. If you have nothing to lose and the hope of gaining something.

Please enlighten me, what is it exactly that the red will gain?

Blood on the streets.

Nobody wins, and tension is raised and all anyone wants at this point is more blood.

An eye for an Eye and the whole world goes blind.

Everyone needs to chill.

Us, them, red, yellow, multicoloured, Army, police, sillom whatever you want to be called.

All I know is that some sick people tossed grenades and injured many people one is already dead probably be followed by a couple more.

The simple fact of all this friction has ALLOWED all this to happen.

When you have 5 groups in the streets staring at each other tense daring the other to swing first there's always a f*ckwit ready to toss a stone while nobody is looking.

And since everyone is so damned focused on blaming each other we wont know.

Had this been a regular week, no protest no clashes MAYBE we could have caught the culprit. Right now we jsut have some people who get to have their Jolies starting Violence.

As per the topic, the Red Shirts would definitely "Intensify Pressure" if a few thousand of them managed to inadvertently asphyxiate themselves:

An anti-government protester wears a plastic bag over his head to prepare for the possibility of tear gas on Tuesday, April 20, 2010 in Bangkok, Thailand.

Yahoo News Service

Uh... This has to be a gag...

Tear gas vs suffocation.. and they choose suffocating...

Go red?

Whose calling Darwin Awards?