Insight

Pretty clear indication Amsterdam's smear campaign hasn't really been that effective on the international stage.

I agree insight mate but speaking at this conference seems to be akin to appearing on the international stage as Widow Twanky opposite Les Dennis in Panto in Ipswich this season.

Oh No it isn't, (sorry couldn't resist it)

Mate that's cheesier than a bag of Wotsits.

... but it is the average political discussion on here, with all the fat trimmed.

BTW - Oh yes it is.

well I think this warrants challenging (not because I want Thaksin back or think he's a saint) but in fairness you can't compare to Mao,Stalin,Hitler or Mussolini - Stalin and Hitler killed millions and I dont remember Thaksin doing so and that's just scratching the surface of any comparison as it's not worth going further. You do your cause no favors by using silly comparisons like this one - i think we can all figure out the Thaksin did not burn in ovens millions of people! so debate and attack for sure but keep common sense pleeze

Yet.

A news article on BP yesterday described how Kurt Cubain (or somebody that looks very much like him) appeared on a red shirt wall of hate on display at the rally.

Laughs aside, a "wall of hate"...?

These red shirt events are very concerning as they seem to be galvanizing people into battle, rather than raising democratic awareness. We've already seen the effects of this galvanization during 2009, and even more so during 2010.

Will the silent majority stand idly back should they attempt to do the same again? Unfortunately, I have a feeling we'll soon be finding out...

Pretty clear indication Amsterdam's smear campaign hasn't really been that effective on the international stage.

Somebody on here should let him know.

We can clearly see the public sentiment when around 5,000 yellow shirts come out to oppose the legislation and then 35,000 reds come out to support it.

Red shirt hot heads will turn up at a fart festival while the much more rational folk probably go to work.

It would be interesting to see how many would show up if they had to pay their own way??? I know my relatives LOVE these events. One told me it's a huge party. Free food, drinking, and he comes home with money in his pocket. He doesn't say anything about what the rally is really for. It just doesn't matter to them.

Ace People power...

Thais have had enough of being 'controlled' and most see this as a positive sign

*sigh* How little do you know and jump onto the brainwashed bandwagon. When you say "Thais" you want to mean everyone who is Thai including myself but instead you're only attributing to the Red Shirt Thais. Have you gotten out and see that there are other Thais besides the ones you make company with who disagree with what you're saying? Probably not. Here's a question that I'm still waiting an answer for: Who and what are the names of the 'ammart' and elites who control these people?

The opposition (Democrats and citizens alike) have a clear target and that is Thaksin and his cronies. If the Red Shirts are so convinced that they are being given the shaft by 'elites', then why have their leaders not give them a clear direction instead of this broad view that whoever opposes them, opposes Democracy. Not one of them in their rally speeches talked about Thaksin's corruption but instead continue to bring up the misconduct in Parliament, which if you saw the video, had every right to.

I don't know about yourself, but the Thai people I know now seem to be resigned to the fact that civil war is now looking inevitable.

To describe it was being "welcomed" would be too strong, but if it's the only way to bring some closure to this situation, instead of having these endless red rally after red rally every time a decision is made which doesn't go their way, so be it.

Just what I'm sensing around me. A very sorry situation indeed.

Many believe that there was involvement by the Thahan Phran in these deaths in 2010. Kind of like the dirty tricks group of the army. Also the Thahan Phran has been down south for almost ten years ferreting out and killing assumed leaders.

Are you sure you want to go there?

Do you know who is responsible for the Thahan Phran force you mention?

Note that they have also been spotted recently camped out at Dusit Zoo car park, overseeing the red rally outside parliment and wearing red themselves.

the big leader will one day talk to them all thru the tablet, mission accomplished ... check

Based on the quality of the tablets issued we're surely in for many more "misunderstandings"...

PT WAS 48

Good to see you posting. Welcome back.

TR @sunaibkk: In front of Parliament, red leader Jeng Dokjik has announced phone numbers of charter court judges & their family members.

Go with the tide.

(I'll be clinging on to the airport, thanks)

I personally think every expat in Thailand should be paying attention to what happens regarding this so called "reconciliation" deal the red shirts protest is showing its support for.

Anything put through which results in the charges against Thaksin being dropped is going to have a major effect on national stability. Whether the courts have overstepped their authority or not, IMO they put a potentially very volatile situation on ice - at least for the time being.

Thaksin let the truth slip out the other day at Rachaprasong when he told the red shirts to forget the deaths and there was no need to demonstrate there again.

Now he's trying to backpedal, claiming a bad line and a lack of concentration!

Pathetic.

It's almost enough to make you sympathise with the Thaksin supporters on this forum when the feel the need to say "I'm no fan of Thaksin, but..."

Almost.

Yingluck Says Thai Majority Must Support Law to Free Brother

Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra backed her ruling party’s moves to pass a law that may exonerate her fugitive brother, saying a resolution of political turmoil since a 2006 coup will lead to stability.

“Reconciliation must be accepted by the majority of the people,” Yingluck said in an interview in Bangkok today, amid opposition to draft proposals that call for an amnesty for certain charges since the generals ousted her brother, Thaksin Shinawatra. “We got the clear mandate from the people.”

Thailand’s 500-member parliament represents the country’s 66 million people and is the best place to resolve differences that have spawned deadly street protests in recent years, Yingluck said, without endorsing any of the four specific proposals, all of which would clear her brother.

The comments represent the most public endorsement of her party’s efforts to pass a law clearing the way for Thaksin to return to Thailand after he fled a jail sentence in 2008.

Continues:

http://www.bloomberg...iation-law.html

Bloomberg News - 48 minutes ago

.

Complete misinterpretation of the vote. Many people backed the Phua Thai govt for the introduction of the minimum wage and the free tablets for schools (amongst other goodies). To read outright as a vote to absolve Thaksin (the thief) is manipulative at best.

This lot are set on dragging the country to hell. Nobody in their right mind can possibly buy into this bill being for "reconciliation" now.

Serious question, Nick....

It's pretty clear that the red shirts don't want Thailand and the rest of the world to forget about those who were killed during the clampdown of May 2010. Clearly a lot of resources have gone into planning this memorial event for the 91 deaths which occurred throughout the protest and clampdown.

Why is there no similar memorial to commemorate the deaths of the red shirts allegedly killed during the army clampdown of the red shirt protests in 2009? Specifically those allegedly killed at Din Deang, an event you were apparently an eyewitness to...? Surely the people who were killed in this clampdown should also be remembered?

Has the exact death tool from this action by the army even been established yet? It has been over three years now.

What is your point?

How many times shall it be repeated that there is no proof that Red Shirts were killed in the 2009 crackdown by the military? There are suspicions that a few may have been killed, but no names and clear enough evidence.

That doesn't mean though that Red Shirts do not talk about what they label as 'Bloody Songkran' - they do.

There are even memorial events still over Numthong - the taxi driver who committed suicide in protest of the coup in late 2006.

English language mainstream local media here in Thailand reports does not reflect the level of discussion under Red Shirts, the Red Shirt movement's diversified structures and only reports a tiny fraction of events. It is not the foreign media's job to report on every detail of this conflict.

Again - what is your point?

A question that would have a point now, which though nobody here has asked so far, is how Red Shirt protesters have felt when listening to Thaksin's speech at the Rajaprasong event two days ago. The answer is - to a large part they were very disappointed. I leave it to you to find out what Thaksin has said, and why protesters were/are disappointed, a feeling that has already begun after the Siam Reap speech.

Well we all know that the red shirts don't really need much in the way of solid evidence to hold a commemoration. It's common knowledge on this forum the figure of 91 deaths often repeated at this rally and others includes the deaths of military personnel, civilians and even people protesting against the red shirts! Even throughout the course of this thread we've seen attempts to increase this figure further using more unsubstantiated claims (I believe these posts have since been deleted).

As you highlight, the red shirts call the 2009 clampdown "Bloody Songkran"; they believe a number of people were killed at Din Daeng and then all bodies disposed of somehow by the army. The last time I mentioned this to you on the forum, philw even went as far as to say a simple Google search would remove any doubts I had of this event. It might not have been stated specifically by you, but other red shirts certainly believe that Col Romklao was targeted by the UDD for presiding over these deaths.

If these deaths did happen, then surely they deserve just as much attention as those which occurred on all sides during April and May 2010...? Perhaps even more so, as - according to red shirt lore - these alleged deaths are the first heavy-handed act of suppression by their nemesis, the Royal Thai Army. But it seems now if there was any memorial at all for these those fallen, it was probably a low-key event not worthy of mainstream media attention....?

You state in your last post "There are suspicions that a few may have been killed, but no names and clear enough evidence." - is this an attempt to play down what is alleged to of occurred during the clampdown of 2009? Despite avoiding bullets flying by, you didn't witness anybody injured by these bullets in the crowd of people running from them?

Why do you have to pester me with these quite irrelevant questions?

No, i do not "play down" anything. No, i have no proof of any dead, only witness accounts of a few dead.

No, i haven't seen any injured, i was busy running away. But that there were several injured is proven beyond doubt - last year two of them who were maimed for life there got in a civil case against the army large sums of money awarded by the court. I am not up to date with the criminal case, but believe it is still somewhat stalled.

I am not a Red Shirt, or one of their leaders, you should ask them about what deserves attention.

It is disappointing you find these questions irrelevant. I was just wondering if you, as somebody who is undeniably closer to the red movement than us, and carries "all the luggage of humanism", can offer any perspective on why these alleged deaths have now apparently been discarded to the sands of time by the red shirt leaders? Instead your defensive responses to this query have shades of being removed from your comfort zone.

It is interesting however that although we know some people are adamant people were killed, nobody seems to know any of their identities. Neither can I find any eyewitness accounts from anybody who wishes to be identified. "Several" people were apparently injured by the army. I won't bother asking for specifics, but that vague figure pales massively compared to the 834 injured on April 10th 2010.

The targeted attack on Col Romklao is now sounding like a very cold-blooded act of aggression by the UDD indeed.

Serious question, Nick....

It's pretty clear that the red shirts don't want Thailand and the rest of the world to forget about those who were killed during the clampdown of May 2010. Clearly a lot of resources have gone into planning this memorial event for the 91 deaths which occurred throughout the protest and clampdown.

Why is there no similar memorial to commemorate the deaths of the red shirts allegedly killed during the army clampdown of the red shirt protests in 2009? Specifically those allegedly killed at Din Deang, an event you were apparently an eyewitness to...? Surely the people who were killed in this clampdown should also be remembered?

Has the exact death tool from this action by the army even been established yet? It has been over three years now.

What is your point?

How many times shall it be repeated that there is no proof that Red Shirts were killed in the 2009 crackdown by the military? There are suspicions that a few may have been killed, but no names and clear enough evidence.

That doesn't mean though that Red Shirts do not talk about what they label as 'Bloody Songkran' - they do.

There are even memorial events still over Numthong - the taxi driver who committed suicide in protest of the coup in late 2006.

English language mainstream local media here in Thailand reports does not reflect the level of discussion under Red Shirts, the Red Shirt movement's diversified structures and only reports a tiny fraction of events. It is not the foreign media's job to report on every detail of this conflict.

Again - what is your point?

A question that would have a point now, which though nobody here has asked so far, is how Red Shirt protesters have felt when listening to Thaksin's speech at the Rajaprasong event two days ago. The answer is - to a large part they were very disappointed. I leave it to you to find out what Thaksin has said, and why protesters were/are disappointed, a feeling that has already begun after the Siam Reap speech.

Well we all know that the red shirts don't really need much in the way of solid evidence to hold a commemoration. It's common knowledge on this forum the figure of 91 deaths often repeated at this rally and others includes the deaths of military personnel, civilians and even people protesting against the red shirts! Even throughout the course of this thread we've seen attempts to increase this figure further using more unsubstantiated claims (I believe these posts have since been deleted).

As you highlight, the red shirts call the 2009 clampdown "Bloody Songkran"; they believe a number of people were killed at Din Daeng and then all bodies disposed of somehow by the army. The last time I mentioned this to you on the forum, philw even went as far as to say a simple Google search would remove any doubts I had of this event. It might not have been stated specifically by you, but other red shirts certainly believe that Col Romklao was targeted by the UDD for presiding over these deaths.

If these deaths did happen, then surely they deserve just as much attention as those which occurred on all sides during April and May 2010...? Perhaps even more so, as - according to red shirt lore - these alleged deaths are the first heavy-handed act of suppression by their nemesis, the Royal Thai Army. But it seems now if there was any memorial at all for these those fallen, it was probably a low-key event not worthy of mainstream media attention....?

You state in your last post "There are suspicions that a few may have been killed, but no names and clear enough evidence." - is this an attempt to play down what is alleged to of occurred during the clampdown of 2009? Despite avoiding bullets flying by, you didn't witness anybody injured by these bullets in the crowd of people running from them?

Serious question, Nick....

It's pretty clear that the red shirts don't want Thailand and the rest of the world to forget about those who were killed during the clampdown of May 2010. Clearly a lot of resources have gone into planning this memorial event for the 91 deaths which occurred throughout the protest and clampdown.

Why is there no similar memorial to commemorate the deaths of the red shirts allegedly killed during the army clampdown of the red shirt protests in 2009? Specifically those allegedly killed at Din Deang, an event you were apparently an eyewitness to...? Surely the people who were killed in this clampdown should also be remembered?

Has the exact death tool from this action by the army even been established yet? It has been over three years now.

By international standards, they are complete pussycats.

Try and conduct your 2-month long "protest" in Piccadilly Circus and you'll soon start appreciating them a bit more.

Even I doubt that Abhisits Oxford chum, Dave, would deploy snipers for crowd control so if it came down to it I'd pick Piccadilly Circus but this is about Thailand not the UK.

I'll stay away from the painfully obvious refute for now.

What date did these "army" snipers you cite first become evident?

The UDD is not the most violent political movement in Thailand.

On a national scale, which political movement is more violent?

.

The Royal Thai Army

By international standards, they are complete pussycats.

Try and conduct your 2-month long "protest" in Piccadilly Circus and you'll soon start appreciating them a bit more.

Nothing to worry about. I'm sure he'll follow in the example of the red shirt spiritual leader when he was penalized for breaking the law, and show upmost respect to the court for delivering its judgement fairly.

That said, It's also probably a good idea to stay well the f*** away from Ratchaprasong or any other red shirt gathering tomorrow.

WANTED: Photo Journalist who actually takes photos.

From April 10th and before, other than the clearly heinous act of the army remaining stationed in dealing with the protestors after sundown, and the rubber bullets peppering the a civilian vehicle, what other actions are the red militants using as justification for what was clearly a well planned and executed M79 attack which murdered Colonel Romklao while he was sleeping in his tent?

Also, if you have any solid proof that it was military personnel firing those rounds into ambulances am sure many people would love to see it. Meanwhile there are plenty of eyewitness accounts which detail how the red shirts prevented other public service personnel from reaching the fires started by the red shirts at CTW, the Central Big C opposite, and several fires in the Siam area.

I am sorry, but i am stunned by this post.

Was it just irony, or you did you just manage to get almost every fact wrong?

Romklao sleeping in his tent?!

Oh my god..., i don't even know where to start...

I guess it is pointless here to say that in another such incident i was only a few meters away from an ambulance that was fired at by soldiers as this will just draw the usual accusation of being biased, etc.

Consistent denial and obfuscation by your side of the argument makes posting here an extremely tedious exercise.

This becomes now so silly again that it won't take much longer and i will take another long break from arguing here.

Which i am sure you will be very glad to read...

So you're not even going to bother correcting what I got oh so wrong?

Maybe he was playing on his PS3.... Enlighten us.

Anything else wrong?

well of course it was, it omitted the very first paragraph of the article talking of redshirts advancing with weapons and the lie of the red leaders who said their people were unarmed.

While it is has been sufficiently established that there were Red Shirt militants, and that those armed protesters were legitimate targets - a point we all can agree upon here, i believe, yet your side of the debate seems to consistantly refuse to accept that the military has broken ROE, and shot at, injured and killed non-legitimate targets. Ambulances were shot at on many occasions by soldiers, as this article proves as well.

Indiscriminate shooting, as stated in the article provided, shows the lack of skill, discipline and training of the Thai armed forces. I have been that day and in the exact same situation the article describes at the army lines, just on the other side, and yes, i have seen soldiers firing indiscriminately the shots the authors of the article were on the receiving end. A bit later i have been at the receiving end of M79 grenades fired by armed Red Shirt militants against the soldiers, in which one soldier was killed, two badly wounded, and also my friend and college Chandler was injured.

What is presented by you people here is not a fair assessment of what occurred in 2010 - this whole period was far more complex than you try to convince here (from the distance).

From April 10th and before, other than the clearly heinous act of the army remaining stationed in dealing with the protestors after sundown, and the rubber bullets peppering the a civilian vehicle, what other actions are the red militants using as justification for what was clearly a well planned and executed M79 attack which murdered Colonel Romklao while he was sleeping in his tent?

Also, if you have any solid proof that it was military personnel firing those rounds into ambulances am sure many people would love to see it. Meanwhile there are plenty of eyewitness accounts which detail how the red shirts prevented other public service personnel from reaching the fires started by the red shirts at CTW, the Central Big C opposite, and several fires in the Siam area.

Wonder if she'll end up in Buriram?

Surely the first step to reconciliation would be to stop all red shirt and yellow shirt activity, would it not?

Moderator cancel this post

Do you always ask for moderator intervention when you don't agree with a statement by a poster?

Frankly, I agree with bigbamboo.

You should see how they react when Nick Nostiz is challenged on this forum.

Forum database meltdown death by Report This Post.

Amazing level of contempt for the voting public on display here. Was she given this line by somebody else, or did she come up with it all by herself?

Am not holding much hope, but there's an interesting article in the Bangkok Post today indicating that some of her red shirt supporters may be beginning to see the light.